I was reading the last issue of Double Bassist recently, and it had an article on Pirastro strings. I've been using Spirocore strings ever since I started playing, starting with weichs and then moving up to the (red winding) orchestra gauge to get more sustain & punch. While I love the sound of the Spiros, they are farly high tension and taxing on the right hand. The article mentioned a player named Keith Drosier who switched from Spiros to the Pirastro Jazzer and then to their "Original Flat Chrome" strings, and then helped develop the Obligato line. Does anybody around here know who Drosier is and what his sound is like?

I like the sound I get from Spiros (though it could be a little darker at times), but if there was something as punchy out there with a little less tension, I'd be interested....Has anybody here in talkbassland AB'd the Thomastiks and any of the above Pirastros? I know there are comparison surveys out there, but I'd like to hear from some folks I'm a litle more familiar with if possible. Thanks!

For me, the Pirastro Obligato is the perfect string. It is lower tension than any steel. I have different basses for jazz and orchestra, and the Obligato gives excellent response to bow and pizz. Pizz sustain on my jazz bass is as long as the Tomastik; however, that bass just rings. Pizz sustain on the orch bass is less, but longer than any orch string. Also, some people don't want too long a sustain.

Thanks for the input. Yours has been a voice of reason as long as I've been hearing it. Have you ever had the Thomastic med gauge on your orch bass? If so, how does the sustain compare? I like a lot of sustain - since I don't use a bow (I know, I know...more about that later), I find it useful for "singing" types of lines and would hate to give that up. My new bass sounds good, but I seriously doubt if it is anywhere near in the same league as yours.

Chris: Yes, but just for a few minutes. I'd say the Obligato sustain is 85-95% of the Tomastik Spiro. The difference is, you can bow an Obligato screech-free. D'Addario Helicore pizz had same sustain as the Tomastik; those two are a coin toss.

OK, here´s my two cents.
I have Spiro weichs ( purple winding ) in my older bass, they sound terriffic and i have no complains. The newer bass was equipped with Spiro Orchs, which have the red winding. They were very harsh in the beginning, the tension in high and at first caused even some pain to my right and wrist. On the other hand they had a sustain and punch so irresitible that I could not change them as much as I would have wanted to, in fear of losing that sustain. After a while they got a bit smoother, and also I lowered the action a little. The result was that now the sustain is now as long as it possibly can be, and they are quite playable. Acoustically, I don´t like their "ringing" quality...which brings me to the question; why on earth those strings are called "Orchesterstimmung" while their sound is very bright, they are almost impossible to bow, and very taxing to the rught hand? Am I missing some masochist point in here?

Don,

Is there a difference in tension/feel between the Heliocore pizz and the Spiro Orchs, or would I just be spending $100 to get the same sound and feel? Just in case I've seen them and didn't know it, what kind of winding do these strings have?

Sorry for coming in late on this thread but I have been away from this list for a while.

I have tried reg and weich Spirocores on my Kay ( pizz only) and also Pirastro Permanents and Flat Chromesteels.
The Pirastro strings are not as ringy as the Spirocore but also do not sustain like the Spirocore. Tension is about the same. It will all depend on your bass though as to which string will work best.

For me, a much better string than either one of the above is the Corelli 380TX's ( with a Weich E). They are nickel....a bit less tension than Pirastro's or Spirocore Weichs and have all the sustain you will ever need without the ringiness of the Spirocores. They provide a very robust sound which should please jazz players. They are also inexpensive. They need a week or so to settle down though.
I found the outside surface of the 380's a touch rougher than the Spirocores or Pirastro's but a quick rub with 600 sandpaper makes them feel great.
Most of the talk about Corelli's is about the 370 tungstens but I find them too thin. The 380's are the same as the Weichs in feel and diameter.
Just my personal observations......hope they help.

Martin.

Are you saying the Corellis sustain as much as the Spiro Orchs, or only as much as the Weichs?
Anybody else tried these? I'm interested, but have had the Spiros on for a few months now, and they're just gettin good and broken in.

The Corelli 380 TX's sustain about the same as the Spirocore Weichs. The difference is the tone. To my ears the Corelli's have less thump in the sound and allow my bass to resonate more. The Kay (1949 C-1) has enough thump already with its plywood construction so I like to hear a litle resonance as well. I get that with the Corelli's. A local jazz player loves their sound on the Kay and he has a 150 year old Italian bass. I am also told the Corelli's bow well. You can get a Corelli 380TX D string for around 20 bucks so it might be a cheap way to see if you like the sound.

Also......from one of your earlier posts.... Keith Rosier (D Rosier is his e mail name) is an LA studio and freelance upright and electric bass player. He has written instructional books for Country and Blues players featuring the styles of the most well known players from the past 50 years or so. He also has a book on studio bass players and examples of their playing. Its very good basic to intermediate level material and he is a good solid player who knows his stuff. However the books are not designed to be at the the level of, for example, your discussions on scale melody playing I have read on this forum.

Hi,
I've moved on from Pirastro Flatchromesteel to Pyramid Ultraflex, and then again to the new Kolstein Heritage orch. tuning set. I did this because I'm playing acoustic upright 7 hour a day on Thursdays and Fridays at Disney's California Adventure with the band, "The Miner 49ners." Playing that many hours along with my other bass jobs was getting to my hands, so I started using the Heritage for their lower tension. They have a warm, organic sound with surprising sustain for a perlon core string. I'm happy with Heritage, and the tension is very playable- just a bit lighter than Obligato. Thank you martinc for the kind words. My site is keithrosier.com
Regards, Keith Rosier

Hi,
I've moved on from Pirastro Flatchromesteel to Pyramid Ultraflex, and then again to the new Kolstein Heritage orch. tuning set.
How are the Pyramid Ultraflex?
These strings are quite unknown here in North America.

The Pyramid Ultraflex have less sustain than Spirocore weich but more sustain than typical Pirastro sets. They sound brighter than Pirastro and darker than Spirocore. Tension similar to weich. Search the web or contact Pyramid to get them.

I have three Pirastro guts (Chorda, Oliv and Eudoxa) on my bass. The bottom string is a Superflexible. It took a long time to settle in but now that it has, I'm very happy with it. I tried Spiro Weich and Spiro Mittel before but they were too bright. I'm even thinking of using the Superflexible on the A too.

The Pyramid Ultraflex have less sustain than Spirocore weich but more sustain than typical Pirastro sets. They sound brighter than Pirastro and darker than Spirocore. Tension similar to weich. Search the web or contact Pyramid to get them.
Hi Keith, welcome to TBDB!
According to that old post by martinc, you sound like the type of guy that might add alot to this forum....how about completing more of your profile so we know a little more about you?

Reviving an old thread... sorry!

Just got a set of Thomastik Spirocores, says Orchestra on the package. Is this what many consider to be the jazz set? I was worried that I got an arco string rather than a pizz. string. Have no idea, so please forgive my ignorance! I'm pretty sure this is medium tension - the set isn't in front of me, so I can't say for sure. Help! Did I get the wrong set for pop/jazz on a plywood bass?

You got the right set. The Spirocore Orchestra gauge is the medium tension set and is still the standard by which pizz strings are judged. They sound great and last forever (well, almost).

BTW, while Spiros aren't the most arco friendly strings out there, with a little practice (and some guidance from a teacher) they bow pretty well. Arco bass can be a very beautiful and expressive sound. Think about it ..........

Jim

I'd love to - I need to go and get some hands-on guidance with the bow again. May be a while before I can do that - gotta work on what makes me money right now, and when time permits, I can go back and do what I like. Thanks for the quick reply!

Okay - one more question that I haven't found an answer to: Thomastik strings come with a plastic sleeve that I assume goes over the string at the bridge. Is this best for arco, pizz, or does it fall under personal preference? Lemme know!

I suppose it might be used at the bridge to dampen the sound a little for arco playing. I've never actually used it myself. I just take it off when installing a new set (I guess that would fall under personal preference).

Cool. There was only one sleeve in the whole set anyways. Dunno why. But I slid it to the bottom of the string where the silk wrap is - it ought to be fine there, right?

Got 'em on - they're a little darker than I expected them to be, but I'm sure I'll get used to making them sound great. Thanks for the help everyone!

The little plastic sleeve is a tone filter.
Slip it along the D string to it goes over the bridge.
The D string will then touch the bridge through the sleeve.

Hey, All. I was just browsing the old string threads as part of an inquiry into late 50's jazz tone --which I want to talk about in a second-- when I came across the plastic sleeve discussion.

I had my bass at David Gage's a few weeks ago and happened to ask David about the little plastic sleeve on the D string. His answer was that it goes in the pegbox. The D string has to travel over the G string tuning peg in order to reach its tuning peg at the top of the box. When tuning the D string, it can get hung up on the G string. Hence the little black sleeve. It sits on the part of the G string which is wrapped around the peg and then the D string can slide through it when you're tuning.

Now about that 50's sound....

I've been listening to a great record by New York bassist Neal Miner called The Real Neal. He gets what I think of as an old-school sound that reminds me of Paul Chambers by using Spiros on the E and A and gut strings on the D and G. The gut D and G make sense to me, but I was surprised that the Spiros would blend so well with them.

Last week I heard a recording by my teacher Joe Solomon which also had that old-school sound. He used Obligatos on that one, and so now I'm interested in them as well. I've been playing Superflexibles and I'm happy with them, but I really love that old sound. Maybe in the context of the quintet I've been playing in that kind of subtlety will get lost, but I still think about it.

I think Spiros on the E and A and guts on D and G is a great combo. The Spiros E and A give you (in my opinion) a gutty enough sound, especially if you've used guts on the E and A and know how to get that kind of sound. Right now I have Spiros E and A and Dominant D and G. The D and G take some getting used to because they're just a tad stiffer, but I've used them for some time and am used to it. I used guts for many years, starting in college (thanks to having studied with the great Dennis Irwin). With this set up I feel like I still get that sound, with just a little bit more fundamental than gut strings (at least the ones I was using) provide.
Just my 2 cents.

I think Spiros on the E and A and guts on D and G is a great combo. The Spiros E and A give you (in my opinion) a gutty enough sound, especially if you've used guts on the E and A and know how to get that kind of sound. Right now I have Spiros E and A and Dominant D and G. The D and G take some getting used to because they're just a tad stiffer, but I've used them for some time and am used to it. I used guts for many years, starting in college (thanks to having studied with the great Dennis Irwin). With this set up I feel like I still get that sound, with just a little bit more fundamental than gut strings (at least the ones I was using) provide.
Just my 2 cents.

Phil:

Which Spiros....Weich or Orchestra?
Thanks.

Yo Phil,
Can you offer any insight to what it was like studying with Dennis Irwin?? Love his playing

Spiro Orchs (the Mittels). They are plenty dark sounding and get a close gut sound, along with some really nice growling/buzzing. And for bowing they sound fine too, but I like the sound of the Dominants D and G bowed way more than Spiros.

I can seriously thank Dennis for getting me to where I'm at today. Before I got to school I had some training from private instructors, but I have to say that Dennis was really the one who put me on my feet. I just fell in love with his sound/feel, and I started experimenting with gut strings pretty much as soon as I started studying with him. He would bring in all kinds of things to play, like 2 part Bach inventions, charts from the VJO, really simple Count Basie bass lines. I remember him playing one part of an invention and singing the other, spot on. Once, when he messed up his hand, he brought in a reduction of the 4th movement of Mahlers 5th (he's a Mahler freak, as well as a classical freak). He played one part on piano and I played the other, and I almost cried that lesson. We would also play rhythm changes through the keys, trading 8's, and really, I can safely say that I owe whatever ability I have to swing, to him. He's such a deep cat that's kinda scary/out sometimes, but in a good way, of course.
If you can get a lesson with him, it's well worth it. He's a great guy.

Spiro Orchs (the Mittels). They are plenty dark sounding and get a close gut sound, along with some really nice growling/buzzing. And for bowing they sound fine too, but I like the sound of the Dominants D and G bowed way more than Spiros.

I can seriously thank Dennis for getting me to where I'm at today. Before I got to school I had some training from private instructors, but I have to say that Dennis was really the one who put me on my feet. I just fell in love with his sound/feel, and I started experimenting with gut strings pretty much as soon as I started studying with him. He would bring in all kinds of things to play, like 2 part Bach inventions, charts from the VJO, really simple Count Basie bass lines. I remember him playing one part of an invention and singing the other, spot on. Once, when he messed up his hand, he brought in a reduction of the 4th movement of Mahlers 5th (he's a Mahler freak, as well as a classical freak). He played one part on piano and I played the other, and I almost cried that lesson. We would also play rhythm changes through the keys, trading 8's, and really, I can safely say that I owe whatever ability I have to swing, to him. He's such a deep cat that's kinda scary/out sometimes, but in a good way, of course.
If you can get a lesson with him, it's well worth it. He's a great guy.

Phil! What's up brother? Long time no see. I second the "Dennis is the Man" motion. He is such a great all around musician and the nicest guy you'll ever meet. I saw him play with Matt Wilson's Arts and Crafts and he broke out his clarinet and sounded killing on that too!

I just put a set of Weichs on my bass, and man I'm loving them. I do miss the Velvets sometimes, though. But the Weichs really have a singing quality that I'm digging right now. I'm sure I'll switch again....:D

The only string I'm not so crazy about is the E. Seems a little dead compared to the others....

Hey Pete... wondering if you had the same experience I had when going from Velvets back to Spiros. For me, I was just a lot more confident when it came to landing on the pitch, especially in thumb position, and especially arco. It seems that I can really zero in on the pitches when I have the Thomstiks on there.

My weichs are really paying off right now; I've no idea how old they are, as I pulled them out of my used string drawer, and they've been on the bass for awhile now. Every time I start G.A.S.-ing for new strings, I play another gig and think, "man, these things sound great". I certainly don't mind putting off buying strings for awhile, and who knows?... the way things are going, I might just stick with the Spiros. Hard to mess with success.

PS... regarding the E string... try a Mittel E in place of the Weich. That's what I've got (thanks, Arnold). Sounds and feels great.

Hey Pete... wondering if you had the same experience I had when going from Velvets back to Spiros. For me, I was just a lot more confident when it came to landing on the pitch, especially in thumb position, and especially arco. It seems that I can really zero in on the pitches when I have the Thomstiks on there.

My weichs are really paying off right now; I've no idea how old they are, as I pulled them out of my used string drawer, and they've been on the bass for awhile now. Every time I start G.A.S.-ing for new strings, I play another gig and think, "man, these things sound great". I certainly don't mind putting off buying strings for awhile, and who knows?... the way things are going, I might just stick with the Spiros. Hard to mess with success.

Marcus, yes I had the same experience when I first switched back from the Velvets. After bowing them, I couldn't believe the differnce! They were so easy to play and I realized my arco playing was a lot better than I thought!:D Thumb position in general was much eaiser, I think in part becuase the action didn't need to be as high.

The Velvets were great, don't get me wrong, I loved the gritty arco sound and the gut-like tone. But for convienence and ease of play definately the Weichs are better. Also, at the time I switched back I was getting heavy into Ray Brown (who isn't?:) ) and I was looking for that warm sustaining sound like Ray in the 90's/00's.

PS... regarding the E string... try a Mittel E in place of the Weich. That's what I've got (thanks, Arnold). Sounds and feels great.
Thanks for the tip, I'll check it out.

Ahh... The TB love affair with Animas is waning. Parting is such sweet sorrow. Tune in next month to see which flava of the month will be lying dead on the curb. Will it be Weichs? Will it be Guts? Bellcantbows? How bout Dominuts?

I'm on the edge of my seat.

Ahh... The TB love affair with Animas is waning. Parting is such sweet sorrow.



I miss them, too. I just listened to myself on Animas, from a live CD recorded last year. Kee-rist..... sounded great.

Then, I happened to catch a TV broadcast, from a Grammy thing I did about a month ago. Junk bass, strung with guts (unwound D & G), shure mic on a stand...... sounded friggin' fantastic.

It's just a balancing act, isn't it? And it never ends.:bawl:

Your right Marcus, it really never ends. And I'm not a string/equipment junkie. I like to find something and stick with it. Especially because this stuff is so expensive.:eek:

I miss them, too. I just listened to myself on Animas, from a live CD recorded last year. Kee-rist..... sounded great. I missed them until Saturday when they were mixed with the Gut D/G. The Anima E/A were sucking wind.

Yo Pete! How ya been?
I saw the Bill Mays trio a while back, with Martin Wind and Matt Wilson (absolutely killing), and Martin Wind had on what appeared to be Animas for the E and A, and I think Spiro Mittels (maybe Weichs, though I think Mittels) for the D and G. What a great sound he got out of that set. Normally I would have thought you would want to do the reverse, but he does a lot of arco playing, so that's probably why.

The Weichs for me just felt too light. I bought them originally because I was afraid that the Mittels would have too much tension, but it turns out the Mittels feel just fine, and to me have just a bit more meat to them. I also didn't really dig their sound bowed...but then again, they were o my Kay, so that might have something to with it.

I'm still tempted to go back to guts on my Kay, at least for the D and G, because when I had those on I got a HUGE sound outta that sucker (to quote Hal Galper in one of my old mini disked ensembles). I once had Chorda E and A, Efrano D and Chorda G, and I think that might have been the best sounding set on there. Ah, those were the days..

I missed them until Saturday when they were mixed with the Gut D/G. The Anima E/A were sucking wind.

Yeah, I heard ya. The Animas were great on my bass. But my recent gut experience was really an eye opener for me. Just getting that much volume out of a fiberglass bass kind of rocked my world. These were not high end guts, either. But I played a few notes, and I was smiling. The feel was fantastic, pretty much effortless despite a less than ideal setup. I immediately started imagining what some good quality intestines would sound like on my La Scala.

I'm still tempted to go back to guts on my Kay, at least for the D and G, because when I had those on I got a HUGE sound outta that sucker (to quote Hal Galper in one of my old mini disked ensembles).

You actually recorded that combo? I would just put my iPod on the desk next to me and pretend like it was a recording device, he was too old to know the difference.:hmm:

Man, you'd be a fool not to record that combo, at least that's how I feel. I think his was probably my best combo experience while at school. We delved way deeper into the music than any other combo I had.

Man, you'd be a fool not to record that combo, at least that's how I feel. I think his was probably my best combo experience while at school. We delved way deeper into the music than any other combo I had.

It's funny man. If you talk to people about that combo they either rave about it or hate it with a passion. Next time I see you maybe we'll talk about it.......:D