Folks, I don't know if this has been discussed previously, but I'd like to sollicit your opinions and advice about studying db in mid-life. I'm 50, and recently started taking lessons, learning how to bow etc.

I used to play db (self-tought, jazz and classical), when I was much younger, stopped playing altogether for 20 years (work, family, all those fake excuses.... :rolleyes: ). A year or so ago I bought a EUB and joined a local jazz band to play for fun. A few month ago I got a real bass, and found a good teacher :D .

I seem to be making progress in developing decent bowed sound, but it is slow going. I realize that it's probably par for the course, but I wonder how others feel about the ability to learn new physical and musical concepts when you're no longer quite in your prime. I'm enjoying myself tremendously, and I'm at peace accepting that wherever I'll end up in terms of skills and musicianship, it'll be the best I can do.

Oh, and I enrolled in a Feldenkrais class at my teacher's recommendation. Wish I had known about that earlier!

Martin

Welcome to TBDB Martin! It's refreshing for me to welcome someone who's a little closer to my age (62). Many of our newer posters are about the age of my grandchildren.
I think it's great that you've decided to get back with it! As you, of all people know, age means absolutely zip when it comes to study. All you need is your bass and a load of passion! What kind of bass are you playing?
I'm afraid i've never heard of Feldenkrais. Would like to hear about it. If it's good enough for YoYo Ma, it's good enough for me!

Lets see......I started playing again five years ago after a thirtytwo year layoff.........It took two years to get back to where I was then. I took lessons from a great teacher for two years. I quit only because I wasn't able to practice enough to justify the cost. Three years have been spent trying to improve through very active participation on various groups. Improved?.......some but not enough.

The section that I play with now includes a retired neurosurgeon, another medial professional, an HR professional that travels five days a week and our fearless leader that played for his bread and butter. If I can find the time to practice, I may catch up to the neurosurgeon.

You are never to old to start or restart. It is for the challange and to be able to contribute to others enjoyment of the music that is really important.

And, oh Yes...I turned 55 last year and the neurosurgeon that I'm attempting to keep up with is 63 and having cataract surgery next week. Also, I have been told that we are one of the best community orchestras in Minneapolis and St. Paul.

At 41 I am not quite as long in the tooth as some folks but I didn't take up the bass until the age of 39. It is easy to notice the physical disadvantages of being a "mature" student but I also see some advantages--mainly mental things like a little more patience and possessing the knowledge that one does possess all knowledge.

I think that one of the things which makes musical education most valuable for kids is that, if they are even the tiniest bit sensitive to the point, they experience learning as a process. They ARE able to pull things off in June which they could not do in September. That notion (if recalled) can help later when they're frustrated with biology or whatever.

Lucky Martin gets the flip side of the same coin. You will have the rare chance to experience the joy of beginning, and you're in a state of mind to appreciate it, too.

Go get 'em, and c'mon back!

I'm 53, and have been studying for two and a half years, and I'm playing in our community college orchestra.

I've got a great teacher, who is somewhat of a perfectionist. I told him when we started not to teach me like the 51 year old man with no prospects for a musical career (that I was), but to teach me as if I was a young and eager kid, with his whole life and potential career ahead of him. He complied, and I have never regreted this approach.

While I will never have my young daughter's ability to quickly absorb information and act upon it unselfconciously. I think we older folk, do have drive, self-discipline, and the ability to analyze and focus that many younger players won't have developed yet.

The two big draw backs that I have seen are that when physical injuries occur (overuse injury) rebounding is slower, and in performance, I am too uptight - too much emotional and intellectual baggage.

Thanks for your encouraging responses! It's good to hear from fellow midlife bassists (i.e. all of us in the 40-80 age range :smug: ). I hang on to my Dad's example, who played viola until he passed on last year, played in orchestras and string quartets all his life and wasn't afraid to join my (then) jazz band for an occasional cameo, all with a day time job and raising the family.

To reply to Paul's question re: bass, I ended up getting a Chinese carved bass (it's not labeled, but the luthier said it is a Violmaster bass). I had spent quite some time checking out instruments, both new and old European, Christophers, Eastmans etc. and this one spoke to me, both in sound and how it is built. The top plate is very nicely grained spruce, back is nicely bookmatched maple. I'm learning how temperamental a good bass can be, it plays and sounds differently almost every day, quite a change from the plywood instrument I played in the 70's. It came with Spirocores, which I've exchanged for Helicore Orchestras for now to give myself a bit of a break while learning to bow. I'm very happy with the bass, and even my teacher (plays in SF Symphony) was impressed by it.

Feldenkrais is akin to Alexander technique, in that the objectives are similar, but the methodologies are quite different. In a Feldenkrais class, the teacher directs student verbally through a series of (mostly small) body movements with the overall intent to learn how to generate movements with the least effort by using the appropriate muscle groups (usually different from what you've been programmed to do during the years). My bass teacher indicated that it would help relieve tension in the right forarm and learn to bow using the thorax and back muscles more consistently. The nice thing about Feldenkrais is that it is tought in many community recreation centers, and the cost is relative low ($10-15 for a one hour session) since these are group classes rather than the individual sessions from an Alexander teacher. I trust it will help, I feel really good following a class. There's a ton of info and links on www.feldenkrais.com if you're interested.

I'm enjoying the heck out of this thread. I'm 49- for a couple more weeks, at least- and in the last year started studying classical technique in fits and starts. I've played BG and other stringed instruments in various ensembles, and UB in a folk-rock group a few years ago, but my first exposure to playing music was as a percussionist (i.e., a drummer who can read) during my school years. I'm diving into the classical world in part to keep up with my little 10 year old nephew (he's already well into the second Vance volume) but also with the idea that maybe, just maybe, I could get good enough to play in a community orchestra one day.

More of us here than you might think.

50 here, playing again for around 4 years after a haitus of more than 20. Gigged pretty regularly in my early twenties, then dropped it cold, daunted by the economic realities and also afraid I didn't really possess the right disciplines at the time.

This time around, I have far better disciplines and at the same time quite modest ambitions, and therefore far less pressure on myself. This makes playing almost always rewarding, almost never frustrating. I try for ensemble playing opportunities (jazz and classical) and gigs (sometimes one-offs, sometimes extended) whenever I can. But I generally limit myself to decent music, decent players, okay venues and good camaraderie, or some acceptable combination thereof. I practice seriously in stretches of 2-3 months, then break for a while. Occassional spurts of lessons, but as often, I act as my own teacher. (Don't jump on me here, I know and strongly agree with the view on having a proper teacher that prevails here at TBDB. My own approach just happens to be right for me at the moment.)

I'm pretty sure I'm now a better bass player than when I was young, and certain I'm a better musician. Somehow that relaxed, at ease, mature sound and feel that I so admired in my idols as a youth just came to me, along with the years and graying hair, despite that I wasn't playing all those years in the interim. Funny, eh?

I have spent a lot of time over the past year studying Alexander Technique (and have read Fieldenkrais and tried some on my own - they're related, but different) and have found this to be a real help in bass playing, and also pretty darned interesting and rewarding in and of itself.

Curious to hear how some of the other confessed "born again" bassists here got back into it. In my case, having scarcely thought about the bass for many years, inexplicably I began having recurrent bass dreams. Kept waking up with with a head full of muddled dreamy images involving spruce wood and ebony, and heavy, tensioned strings under my fingers, the buzz and spring of a nice bow, and the vibrations of a bass's sound. Sort of vaguely lustful, certainly quite sensual. This kept up for two or three months and I gradually realized my subconscious was trying to tell me something, so I got a bass. (Then another and then another, and so on...)

ain't life and the double bass grand?

BTW, around 2+ years ago I recall seeing in the ISB newsletter a small classified ad, seeking people to be interviewed for a study on "midlife" bass students. Thought about responding at the time but never got around to it. Now I'm unable to locate the ad.

Anyone here know about this, or notice it at the time, or able to find it? Seems that just on this thread we've several people who might be interested in participating if the study is still ongoing, or reading the resulting paper if there was one.

oops, one more

http://www.ethanwiner.com/AdultBeg.html

this also may be interesting to some on this thread

I'm 43: a pup, I know. EBG since 14, DB for about 5 years only, though. Lots of gigging experience locally and I've never stopped playing (although I can honestly say there was a long period there where I wasn't really paying attention too well.)

I'm pretty much self-taught in music after starting with guitar lessons Lo, these many years ago. About 4 months ago, though, I finally got with the program and started studying DB with a local teacher. This development I credit to TalkBass, by the way...

After being on my own all that time, I find one of the nice things about being with a teacher is I can relax and follow his agenda for now. Let someone else drive for awhile. I'm luckly enough to have pretty good time available for practice, and I've been hitting it hard this winter. It's been wonderful.

I love learning, I have never stopped. The advantage of maturity is you likely have some self-knowledge about your motivation, your learning style, and your real musical abilities that the youngsters may not. You can use that knowledge, going about development very purposefully. You really enjoy the development results you're getting back.

The bow is very cool -- I'm digging it intensely.

More of us here than you might think.

50 here, playing again for around 4 years after a haitus of more than 20. Gigged pretty regularly in my early twenties, then dropped it cold, daunted by the economic realities and also afraid I didn't really possess the right disciplines at the time.


I am exactly the same - but I'm a bit younger and still don't have enough time for DB - I plan to take up DB seriously when I am over 50 and have earned enough money to enable me to take early retirement with decent pension and enough to pay a decent teacher!! ;)

I think this kind of thing will be happening more and more, as we all live longer, have higher standards of education and expect more out of life.

Also - less babies are being born due to womens' choices for careers and widepread infertility problems. Less and less youngsters are taking up Double Bass - so in a decade or so - well will be the only DB players around, apart from a few "oddities" !! ;)

But the older generation will be more numerous and will want the sort of entertainment they like (real music)- I predict a big boom time on the horizon, for 50 year old musicians!! :D

Curious to hear how some of the other confessed "born again" bassists here got back into it. In my case, having scarcely thought about the bass for many years, inexplicably I began having recurrent bass dreams. Kept waking up with with a head full of muddled dreamy images involving spruce wood and ebony, and heavy, tensioned strings under my fingers, the buzz and spring of a nice bow, and the vibrations of a bass's sound. Sort of vaguely lustful, certainly quite sensual. This kept up for two or three months and I gradually realized my subconscious was trying to tell me something, so I got a bass. (Then another and then another, and so on...)

ain't life and the double bass grand?

Yeah, I love this paragraph myrick. Some of the guys who have been doing TBDB for a while know my situation, but in case you don't. I'm a professional jazz bassist, having played all over the world with people like Bill Evans, Stan Getz, Cal Tjader ETC. My wife, Barbara, was diagnosed with ovarian cancer a few years ago and I became her caregiver. The demands of caring for her took me right out of my element and I had to give up playing for a while. After losing her in 2003, I'm finally making it back now...practicing three hours a day and buying and selling basses. Alot of this is thanks to this site. I'm also teaching for the first time in my life, which is definately thanks to TB. The need to verbalize my thoughts and ideas have taken me directly into my third career in bassdom...teaching!
This turned out to be a hell of a good thread...Thanks, Martin!

Yeah, I love this paragraph myrick. Some of the guys who have been doing TBDB for a while know my situation, but in case you don't. I'm a professional jazz bassist, having played all over the world with people like Bill Evans, Stan Getz, Cal Tjader ETC.

Sorry about your wife Paul. Great thread going here everyone. Interestingly enough Paul when I wrote my last remarks I was listening to a new(old) vinyl LP of Stan Getz, Billy Higgins, Vince Guaraldi Eddie Duran and Scott Lofaro. I have recently resurected my 70's quad system and album collection. Great memories and great music.

Mark

I wonder how others feel about the ability to learn new physical and musical concepts when you're no longer quite in your prime. I'm enjoying myself tremendously, and I'm at peace accepting that wherever I'll end up in terms of skills and musicianship, it'll be the best I can do.

Oh, and I enrolled in a Feldenkrais class at my teacher's recommendation. Wish I had known about that earlier!

Martin
Pardon my snicker. I began earnest classical studies in my mid 50's. I was over 60 when I began my studies with Michael Moore. And at age 66 I began classes 5 days a week in a 3 year program to become certified as a teacher of the Alexander Technique. I feel as if my life has just begun.

Feldenkrais is an intellectual giant. There is some overlap between his and Alexander's methods and analysis of the workings of the mind, but I am committed to AT. I do not believe Feldenkrais would have altered the very course of my life as has Alexander. Nevertheless, Feldenkrais offers great benefits.

e my last remarks I was listening to a new(old) vinyl LP of Stan Getz, Billy Higgins, Vince Guaraldi Eddie Duran and Scott Lofaro.
Mark

Tell us more about this record Mark. I'm not sure if I know it...if I don't know it, I WANT it. By the way...LaFaro

Curious to hear how some of the other confessed "born again" bassists here got back into it.

Since you asked...
I too played BG for about 5 years as a teenager. Typical Rock gigs, some radio commercials. I had music in junior high, and learned trumpet, but was self taught on BG.

20 years later I had married into a musical family (jazz drummer and singers). Meet alot of jazz musicians, and my wife convinced me to give take up BG again. Got some lessons oriented to jazz, and a little theory. After a year, I whenever my wife or inlaws were asked up, to sing with a trio we knew, I used to sit in (but no improvising).

I had really wanted to play upright, like most of the musicians we knew, but felt the cost was prohibitive. I also wondered if I had a good enough ear for "unfretted" musicianship.

When my daughter was born all that went out the window.

Then when she took up double bass in elementary school (because a friend of her did) and brought one home, I could'nt keep my hands off of it. Even though it was a half size, I just loved to sound, and the...what....coolness factor? romance? tradition? It didn't matter what I played, a simple blues line, really moved me.

It got so bad that when we decided to sent my daughter for bass lessons, my wife found a husband and wife team. We've been going ever since.

Tell us more about this record Mark. I'm not sure if I know it...if I don't know it, I WANT it. By the way...LaFaro

I think it is a recent Greman press of an early sixties recording that was remastered in 1987 by Phil De Lancie (Fantasy Studios, Berkeley). The list includes: Side 0ne - Ginza Samba, I've Grown Accustomed To Her Face. For All We Know; Side Two - Crows Nest, Liz-Anne, Big Bear and My Buddy.

The reverse side commentary (1963) by Grover Sales, Jr. gives a lot of print talking about a up and coming new bass player by the name of Scotty LaFaro.

Look for it at your local record store.
Mark

Thanks!

I'll throw in one more, Martin. Took up double-bass at age 48 (a year and a half ago). Played guitar and piano from my early teens 'til about age 25, and then didn't do anything at all with music, of any kind, for the next 23 years. At 48, a long-simmering desire to play the double-bass finally took hold of me and I jumped in. Got a teacher through my local adult education program, and he s fantastic. Very supportive, very encouraging, really a great guy. And I'm enjoying it immensely. In just the year and a half I've been playing, I've played a few local gigs with small combos, got in a 20-piece jazz band ensemble (also through the local continuing education program), and I'm having the time of my life. I agree with the others -- this is the most enjoyable thread I've seen in a long time. Thanks for raising the issue.

This is a really great thread. I have been beating my self up for a few years now for not buckling down and getting serious about learning, and this kind relieves a little bit of the pressure (for a few minutes anyways.) I will be 30 this summer and have only been playing DB for a couple years now, BG for about 15. I have finally located a local DB teacher and will be starting lessons this summer after my kids get out of school, which is very exciting but equally daunting.
It is comforting to know that I'm not the only one here just getting started.

I will be 30 this summer and have only been playing DB for a couple years now, BG for about 15.
It is comforting to know that I'm not the only one here just getting started.
You're kidding, right? 30? That's middle age? That makes me dead 7 years ago.

You're kidding, right? 30? That's middle age? That makes me dead 7 years ago.
Well, I guess you can be 52 and still be considered "middle age". I consider myself to be middle age, but then I fully expect to be around until I'm 104, at least.

And still playing those Bowell Sister's tunes! :)

You're kidding, right? 30? That's middle age? That makes me dead 7 years ago.

The idea of middle age is definitely a relative concept. I think it continually advances as we do. By the way Don, I've been meaning to ask you exactly how did they tan the strips of mammoth skin used for strings on your first bass?

You're kidding, right? 30? That's middle age? That makes me dead 7 years ago.

I know Im not middle aged (feel like it some days) but it just gets me questioning myself when I hear some 17 year old kid totally ripping it up. I step back and wonder "did I wait too long to get started? Will I be able to get to where I want to go with my playing?"

Better late than never...

I played the tuba in school and got pretty good at it.
Last year I got the bug, after going out to see lots
of live jazz in LA. I have had a BG for about ten years
and learned to play a bit by ear. When I could hear and
play the root without thinking about it I realized something
was happening musically upstairs.

I got a carved bass, and my wife got a piano. She had not
played since grade school, and has found a local teacher.
Then I bought a tuba and relearned it quickly. Now a
better bass, and moving on to better teacher(s).

I came out of the woodshed for the first time this past
weekend to a Jazz masterclass and had a grand time.
I did not play well, but learned a ton and found many
weaknesses than I can now focus on.

It is as big a challenge as any athletic or academic
endevour I have ever chased after, and there have
been some whoppers. The combined mind and body
skills, with intense attentiveness required, and the
immeadiate feedback is a grand meditation on life.

I cannot wait to hear the sounds that are in my head.

paul t-

Better late than never...


Congratulations Paul!

I'm just getting started at DB and I'm going to turn fifty in a couple weeks. I've played guitar on and off since I was a kid. got away from it as I started working longer hours but got back at it about ten years ago. Also loved jazz and blues since forever.

Always kept music and instruments around my kids. My two sons have played a whole variety of instruements and did the band/jazz band thing in school. My younger son just got a scholarship to play jazz drumset in college and my older (afet playing jazz clarient and bari sax) recently switch to BAGPIPES (!!) and is playing in a college pipe band.

i recently decided to sell a couple guitars and buy a DB. I've hooked up with a local jazz player/teacher for lessons and am shopping for a bass. I'm currently playing an Englehardt M3 that I brought home for one of my boys...hpe to have a real bass soon.

So far I'm having fun!

BTW, Paul...I just got Bill Evan's Riverside box set and can't get it out of the CD player...that must have been one hell of a gig! Have you ever written on TBDB about your experiences with Evans?

Its great to hear all us "older" folks taking up double bass (old is not really in my vocabulary). I took up upright in my late 40's after playing electric bass in a jazz band and wanting to get that upright sound. Three years later I'm playing in a college orchestra with alot of pro types of musicians and other students and just got back from my weekly gig with my swing dance band where I played upright. I'm a bass lady and the physical demands of this instrument have sometimes been a bit much in the beginning. But I've never been in better shape either. I play 5/8 basses and have good light equipment such as the GK 24 pounder amp and have figured out how to get things moved from one place to another. Taking up musiic again after a long hiatus is the best thing I ever did. This is my passion. My upright teacher is priming me for some good paying gigs in the near future and I think in terms of making this my new career with both electric and upright. If ya really want to do it you'll find the time.

BTW, Paul...I just got Bill Evan's Riverside box set and can't get it out of the CD player...that must have been one hell of a gig! Have you ever written on TBDB about your experiences with Evans?[/QUOTE]




As i've mentioned before, i've written an account of my time with Bill and Philly Joe kind of in story form for Bob Branstetter (our mid Western/Conservative/luthier/Double bassist) who's been in the process of recovering from a knee replacement surgery. He's sent it back to me and i'll be posting it real soon.
Thanks for asking.

Sounds like quite a fun trio to play in!!!
Philly Joe Jones and Bill Evans...phew....!
I heard they had a tendency to rush a few numbers though?? ;)

/lovebown

I too recently turned 50 and 3 months ago decided to start playing again after a 30 year vacation from db and a 20 year vacation from bg. I rented a plywood box for a couple of months and then bought a nice carved bass. A couple of weeks ago I auditioned for the local civic orchestra on Tuesday and played the concert on Saturday. Managed to hit most of the notes in Beethoven's Prometheus Overture even though it was about twice as fast as I had practiced it! :eek: (I'd never heard it)
Started lessons last week with a great teacher and life is good. Don't know exactly where I'm going, but I'm having a ball on the trip!

I too recently turned 50 and 3 months ago decided to start playing again after a 30 year vacation from db and a 20 year vacation from bg. I rented a plywood box for a couple of months and then bought a nice carved bass. A couple of weeks ago I auditioned for the local civic orchestra on Tuesday and played the concert on Saturday. Managed to hit most of the notes in Beethoven's Prometheus Overture even though it was about twice as fast as I had practiced it! :eek: (I'd never heard it)
Started lessons last week with a great teacher and life is good. Don't know exactly where I'm going, but I'm having a ball on the trip!

Hey, baseballbobby,

One thing about practicing at home for the orchestra is that its going to be twice as fast at rehearsal. Haha, wait till you get to those tricky passages where you've got to alternate between piz and arco each measure or during the measure. I'm really getting my chops up. Enjoying it all the time.

I wanted to say that I, too, am picking up the instrument again after a brief hiatus. It was 6 years to be exact. I will have my first lesson next week and I feel like a kid in a candy store. So much knowledge to pick up and not knowing where to start.

Congrats, to all who have rediscovered a love for this wonderful instrument, no matter how long we were away or how old we are.

Well, I am very thankful for this thread. I am picking up the DB and I am thirty-seven. It is a real joy!

I heard recently that the projected lifespan in the next couple of decades will increase to 125 years. Not sure if that applies to jazz bassists. Maybe I'll stock up on Spiros anyway.

I heard recently that the projected lifespan in the next couple of decades will increase to 125 years. Not sure if that applies to jazz bassists. Maybe I'll stock up on Spiros anyway.



Yeh, if you live that long, you might end up needing like 5-6 sets of spirocores.

Yeah, it seems like small potatoes now, but the money I save could buy me a lot of Viagra in my old age.

You know...so I don't fall outta bed.

Sounds like quite a fun trio to play in!!!
Philly Joe Jones and Bill Evans...phew....!
I heard they had a tendency to rush a few numbers though?? ;)
/lovebown

Yeah, well when Bill called I said "Man, I heard you guys have a tendancy to rush a few numbers....so ........."
COME ON!Jeesh!

Yeah, well when Bill called I said "Man, I heard you guys have a tendancy to rush a few numbers....so ........."
COME ON!Jeesh!
I was kidding man...
/lovebown

I was kidding man...
/lovebown


I knew from your past posts that you are not that thin in the head! I said what I said for the benefit of some of our younger newbies who are not quite used to our strangeness here on TBDB

As i've mentioned before, i've written an account of my time with Bill and Philly Joe kind of in story form for Bob Branstetter (our mid Western/Conservative/luthier/Double bassist) who's been in the process of recovering from a knee replacement surgery. He's sent it back to me and i'll be posting it real soon.
Thanks for asking.OK Paul, you've stalled long enough - post it!

I knew from your past posts that you are not that thin in the head! I said what I said for the benefit of some of our younger newbies who are not quite used to our strangeness here on TBDB
Hah ok...

Although, I have actually heard that they did have a tendency to rush, which drove some bass players crazy hahah!!

Anyway, let's see your article , Paul!

/lovebown

Hah ok...
Although, I have actually heard that they did have a tendency to rush, which drove some bass players crazy hahah!!
/lovebown

Yeah, I read that Mike Moore stuff too...and I have the CD. As we all know, the tendency to rush was the least of their problems. I loved those guys though. Mike tried to hold them in....I was 22 and in total awe of these guys...I happily went right along with the program!
Let's see...I think this thread started with studying bass at a later age?

I read in an Evans bio that Michael Moore lamented that he had to wear the "uniform" that Bill and Joe has picked out. Something like a powder blue suit with a lavender shirt.

But hey, if Bill had called me and told me the uniform was grass skirt and a coconut bra, I'd be packed on the next plane.

I read in an Evans bio that Michael Moore lamented that he had to wear the "uniform" that Bill and Joe has picked out. Something like a powder blue suit with a lavender shirt.
Powder blue polyester and pink, to be precise. Michael has a picture of it over his piano. He still busts out laughing when he tells about it. Bill and Philly were not exactly themselves when they made the choice.

Reading this thread helped inspire me to have one of the best practice sessions I've had in a long time! I am 27 (I'm not suggesting that I'm middle age). I've not played in any groups or had any lessons since I left college over 5 years ago. It's great to see so many of you getting back into it. When I got out of college I jumped right into the wife/mortgage/kids/car payments/day-job real world and had to face facts that I wasn't going to be a serious musician, at least for a while. I do however intend to keep my instrument and play it as much as possible. Sometimes I get a little down about not being able to play more but I don't have any regrets, I'm a family first kind of guy and I adore my wife and kids. Thanks guys for reminding me that you can always begin, or begin again.

Hi Jeffrey,
That's a really good way of looking at things. Sounds like you've got your priorities clear for now and know what is important.

I think most or all of us who responded to this post -- certainly that includes me -- had strong reasons to set aside music for more important things at the time. But, music will always be there and, even after being away from music for awhile, it seems like the abilities just are there to pick up where one left off. :hyper:

After reading this thread, I can solve my problem with my wife. As I always put most of my time to pracitce and play my bass.

I am 37 now,and in the same, and exactly situation as JefferyG.
My real world seems to be more complicated than I expected when I was a teen (Family, a day job, all payments).

Since I have read this thread, I have my answer. I should arrange my priority to my family first.


As Jeffery said "you can always begin, or begin again". I will keep playing my bass as much as possible, even the practice time will be less than I want to.

Thank you all, especially Jeffery, for giving me a light to figure out my problem.

Pongsak
Bangkok, Thailand

Wow, glad I could help Pongsak. Good luck.

Great thread. I"m 38, started playing electric bass at 12 and have played uninterupted except for 4 years during medical school. In the last year or two I have developed an intense interest in everything double bass. I remember as a younster being fascinated with the double bass but the schools I attended had no stringed instrument education/programs. We had the typical brass and woodwinds only. By the time I entered high school I met bassists who did have stringed instruments at their elementary schools. Man was I in shock. I couldn't believe that the very next public elementary school had a full orchestra. Needless to say I was bitter and figured one day I'd give the double bass a try. I now have 3 children, 3 dogs, new house and a new recording studio in my home. I've been able to work a double bass part into every song I've recorded. I really need to get an instructor but I'm pretty much forced to do most of my playing at night once the kids go to bed. I have joined our church orchestra and play electric bass about 98% of the time. On a few tunes that needed an arco part I've been able to get by on the double bass. Best thing about the church orchestra is that it forced me be a better sight reader. Okay now I'm rambling. Just wanted to say the bass has been my lifelong friend and passion. I look forward to learning better technique and lots of music the rest of my life. Thanks.

What a great site. I began on the BG back in the 60s playing rock. By my midtwenties I switched to jazz and began taking DB lessons with Joe Solomon in New York on a rented plywoord that was really painful. To make a long story short, I went to grad school, got into education, moved to Florida, married, had kids and am now 55. In all that time, 20 years, I had dreams of finding a used DB in a pawn shop and getting back into playing. Instead, I borrowed a plywood from the local school which also was discouraging. I finally bought a carved Korean a couple of yeasrs ago and have enjoed playing again. I play with a group who are 80+ years old, so I'm the kid in the group. It's not bebop, but the hits of the 40's provide good practice in walking and time keeping.

Hey, nice posts guys. This is a great site and the amount of DB information is amazing! Learned so much about DB in my short time at this site. That passion for music, and especially bass, is always there waiting to be expressed. Hope I'm playing bass when I'm 80. :hyper:

That passion for music, and especially bass, is always there waiting to be expressed. Hope I'm playing bass when I'm 80. :hyper:

That is my dream too.

Pongsak
Bangkok, Thailand

63 and still studying double bass.

The first rule of playing is, once you start playing, never put your axe down.

The second rule is, once you put it down, never pick it up again.

The third rule is, once you pick it up again ... I guess yhou can see where that goes.

In my humble opinion, it's just gets better every time. I just bought a 4/4.

Matt M

Great Thread.

I starting playing DB a little over a year ago (I'm 43 now), and I'm having a blast. I had played some fretted instruments when I was much younger but never really studied music (although I'd been around it through work). I'm currently studying with a good teacher (both individually and with a small combo). I too, find it hard to make time for practice, but listening to all you guys gives me inspiration.

My only regret about picking up the DB a little later in life is this. During the '80s I was a recording engineer in Nashville and got to work with a lot of great musicians. On a couple of occasions, I recorded Edger Meyer. What a missed opportunity to pick his brain!

Folks,

I'm 44 and employed as a full-time Software Engineer. This thread on beginning DB in the more "senior" years is just the encouragement I need! I just posted the following to the Joe Solomon thread on "practice". I would also welcome and appreciate advice and experience from anyone here as well!

I've played guitar since age 14, am a former serious Jazz Guitar Student of 3-4 years and have also studied Classical Guitar for 6 years (including 1.5 years with Ray Chester of Peabody Conservatory). I'm now 44 years old and frankly "tired" of the guitar. I've been playing Electric Bass Guitar for about 1 year.

I would like to get into playing Double Bass, including the Arco technique. Do I face any unusual challenges beginning on the Double Bass at the "ripe middle age" of 44? For example, I've been told that acro technique fundamentals need to be developed by age 14 or so in order for bowing to ever become natural.

I am a dedicated musician already with several years of reading, theory, harmony, and solfeggio training in my background. If I could commit 2-3 hours of practice per day under a solid professional teacher (there is a phenomenal Classical, Jazz, and Folk DB teacher in my area named Robby Link) would I, in your opinion, be able to develop solid, competent DB skills within say 5 - 7 years? Have you taught adult students who have begun from similar backgrounds and progressed to at least modest levels of professionalism?

Thanks for any advice you can offer.


Brian Bowman

Brian,

It sounds like you have so much going for you with your musical background. Where did this idea get put out that one cannot develop arco skills after age 14?? I started upright around age 47 and after 2 years I was playing in a college orchestra and have been gigging regularly with a jazz band for quite a while. I would think, with your level of commitment to practice (my level of commitment is more scattered as I also play electric bass and am studying singing and play various styles of music besides classical) I would think you could get there in much less than 5-7 years.

I think the crucial thing here is having the right teacher for you. The guy you mention sounds great. Being female and older, I have had my best success studying with an upright teacher who keys in to good body dynamics, and that was also true of studying electric bass formally. Both of these recent teachers happen to be female, and I somehow think that because of their particular physical challenges, they have simply developed and teach such superb playing techniques. I had to go through a few upright teachers to find one whose ideas of playing was truly comfortable to me. Arco playing, when one approaches really "getting it", is not a great exertion and seems to get more effortless the more I relax and play correctly. After about five lessons with this new teacher, I am really producing good sounds with good expression. I did not get to near that point after a year with my former teachers.

I think it is also important to buy or rent a bass you are comfortable with. I am sure your teacher could help you out there. When I first started I rented a bass and went home and couldn't wait to start playing. When I went to my first lesson, my first teacher commented how difficult it was to play because it was so poorly set up. I thought basses were just kind of tortuous to play but once I got a good setup and then bought my own bass I realized it wasn't difficult at all. So, a good bass and a good setup are important too.

Playing DB these past three years has only done wonders in being more physically fit. If you are healthy and can dedicate yourself to regular practice, I don't see why you cannot be out playing and sounding good in a lot less than 5-7 years.

JGBASS,

Thanks so much for your kind and encouraging reply! The person who told me about the need to develop Arco technique early in life is actually a Female world class cellist. I love the Cello and at one point during my last "season" of serious Classical Guitar study, considered dropping CG and "picking up" the Cello at age 39.

This cellist is a family friend and was staying with us for 3 weeks where we used to live in Balitmore. She was practicing much and also helping to teach her pre-teen son who was staying with us as well. I ask her about taking up the Cello at "my age" because I was constantly listening to the Bach Cello Suites performed by Pablo Casals. Her reply was "you could" BUT it is known that in order to have a truly "natural" bowing technique, one USUALLY has to begin no latter than 14. Of course, she was referring to being able to play the most difficult repetoire for the Classical Cello.

I trust her because of her status (although she is IMO a very humble person who is quite modest about her prodigous talents) and simply "let the idea" of taking up Cello at 39 go. However, after reading http://www.ethanwiner.com/AdultBeg.html, I'm less convinced of the "universal application" of her statement.

Anyway, I do recognize that the DB is different from the Cello and no dobut the "stock in trade" Orchestral and Jazz Arco DB playing is not as difficult as solo Cello.

Thank you for your advice concerining teachers as well. I actually study Bass Guitar from the Carol Kaye materials (pretty famous female bassist) and post on her forum. The DB teacher I mentioned Robby Link, is very aware of somatic issues with playing the DB. I'm 6'4" and Robby is also very tall, so I think from the "physical challenge" point of view he is a good match. I will admit that I've not had a lesson with him yet, I just know him by reputation and have seen him play publically many, many times. Robby and I met a couple of times in the early 90's when I was active playing jazz/blues guitar at local "open jams".

As far as an instrument goes, yes, I'm sure that setup is a crucial issues (as it is with all instruments). $$'s will dictate that I begin with either a rental or a <= $1500 "student" instrument. Once I've made up my mind to begin DB studies, this will be worked out.

JGBASS, thanks again!

Having been around for 62 years and being a pro jazz player, I can tell you that this will be one of the best moves of your life.
I'm kinda starting again after a two year period of not playing in public after the death of my wife of 26 years. I've never stopped practising here at home and hangin' here at TBDB has been a life saver for me. These people are like my family and we're here to help you as well.....Go for it!

Paul,

Thank's so much. I'm truly very sorry to hear of your wife's passing. I finally married "the right woman" at age 37 and I cannot even imagine life without her. Your courage to continue in something you love so much, playing jazz on the DB, is truly an inspiration to me!

During my years playing Jazz and Blues guitar (at pretty much an "intermediate" level) I often wondered why I was NOT a Bass player. Being so tall (I'm 6'4"), the Bass (DB or electric - depending on the situation), seemed like a more appropo instrument for my size PLUS the fact that there are always "forty-11" Guitar Players around.

I also BUMMED that the Jazz Guitar, while having its own FINE tradition as a solo/ensemble instrument is not normally present in the "classic" Jazz Piano trio and/or quintet settings.

The range of tonality and expression available on the DB is truly remarkable and I'm sure you are grateful for the many, many years that you have been priviledged to study and play this instrument.

Current circumtances dictate that I wait at least 6 months before starting DB, but in the mean time I'm going to learn all that I can AND of course contine studying Bass Guitar and solfeggio.

Kind Regards,


Brian

You guys are awesome. Best of luck with your playing.

And, Brian, if you are studying Carol's methods, like I do, there is a lot of application of her methods to upright as well. Whatever I learn from her methods I try to apply to upright. The chordal scale may be different fingeringsand positions at times on upright but it still applies to upright. And anything you have learned about walking, soloing, theory will definitely carry over to upright. Janette

Thanks Janette (... what a groovy name you have!),

Yes I'm counting on the Carol Kaye materials helping me much with my future DB playing. Carol has done a whole bunch to "set me straight" (from wrong thinking, attitudes, etc.) and I truly respect her. Coming from a Classical Guitar background I do play the Electric Bass (mine is actually a Klein/Taylor Acoustic Bass Guitar with on-board pickup) strictly finger style though.

Carol's methods are very musically sound and I don't think she gets enough credit for just how good and helful they really are. Well ... off to practice the ABG.

I found a great Bass shop today in Greensboro, NC (about an hour from where I live). http://www.bassviolinshop.com/. They even have a 3-month "trial rental" period. Hopefully, circumstances will allow me to start DB in early 2005.

Best Regards,



Brian

Me too - quit for 12 years after college. Then my sister (who had the good sense to never switch instruments, never transfer schools, and get her M.M. right after completing her B.M.) convinced me to revive our bass/viola duet. I was 37. Took 2+ years to get MOST of my skills back (not all). Most of that time was wasted wrestling with an inferior student bass, so if I have any advice, it's get a good bass ASAP, since we're not getting any younger. The $$ you spend up front will be saved in the hours you spend practicing more productively.

Now I'm planning to go back for my degree and get a playing job before I get to retirement age. I know I may never be as good as I once could have been, but there's no time to worry about that now. Plus, you never know! The maturity can lead to a real epiphany and you'll end up being better than you "would have" been. If you have ever run into an orchestra musician who doesn't appreciate his job, you'll understand that starting late can really be a marvelous gift. You'll be in the honeymoon phase as long as your playing career lasts and won't become one to watch the clock and run out the door before the applause has faded, lest you miss a kickoff, a sale at Shoe Barn, or happy hour.

I mean the level of achievement won't be measured in just your playing ability, but in your enrichment as a person.

Thanks Blue Flame!

In what price range would you define a "good Bass" (... all very relative of course). I know that a solid top is pretty much a "must" if the Bass is to be played arco extensively.

I'll admit that my aspirations are toward the Jazz/Folk end of the DB spectrum, but I want to learn to bow very well AND I definitely want to get a great sound bowing the Bass lines in great Hymns and sacred music - and of course to play arco on Jazz Ballads, etc.

Any more specific advice on choosing my first instrument? Has anyone played the Sam Shen Basses from China? They are alledged to be a great value for the price.

Thanks Blue Flame!

In what price range would you define a "good Bass" (... all very relative of course). I know that a solid top is pretty much a "must" if the Bass is to be played arco extensively.

I'll admit that my aspirations are toward the Jazz/Folk end of the DB spectrum, but I want to learn to bow very well AND I definitely want to get a great sound bowing the Bass lines in great Hymns and sacred music - and of course to play arco on Jazz Ballads, etc.

Any more specific advice on choosing my first instrument? Has anyone played the Sam Shen Basses from China? They are alledged to be a great value for the price.

You guys need to visit our Newbie Links at the top of each section! There's alot of info you need to absorb from that, including some of our family regulars who deal in Shen Basses...Especially John Sprague!!!!

Folks,
I would like to get into playing Double Bass, including the Arco technique. Do I face any unusual challenges beginning on the Double Bass at the "ripe middle age" of 44? For example, I've been told that acro technique fundamentals need to be developed by age 14 or so in order for bowing to ever become natural.

I am a dedicated musician already with several years of reading, theory, harmony, and solfeggio training in my background. If I could commit 2-3 hours of practice per day under a solid professional teacher (there is a phenomenal Classical, Jazz, and Folk DB teacher in my area named Robby Link) would I, in your opinion, be able to develop solid, competent DB skills within say 5 - 7 years? Have you taught adult students who have begun from similar backgrounds and progressed to at least modest levels of professionalism?

Thanks for any advice you can offer.


Brian Bowman

Brian

I, like Blue Flame, took over ten years off. In my case about 15 years. If you are at all talented (and it sounds like you have no promlems in that dept.) have a good teacher who knows your are serious and not just a hobbiest, and put in the (quality) practice time, you will do great. The most important thing I discovered was to join an orchestra ASAP. It can be disconcerting sitting in the back of a section when the 1st chair bass could be your kid, but you will advance faster this way. I basically had to start from the first page of Simandl and practice very slowly to get back what I had at age 14 or so, but it was so worth it. After a year or so with a Julliard gradutate as a teacher I am finally making the bass sing and did my first proffesional orchestra series this Summer. Oh, and don't listen to negative thinkers (or people who were taught by negative thinkers) who say you can't develop past a certain age, etc. It is true you will never be a prodigy unless you start at 2 years old, but as long as you can still think, you can learn. Remember that your attention span is probably a lot better than it was at 14 too.

You will do it. I can feel it.

Jon

Mr. Bowman,

I'm next door to you if "Apex" is in NC.

Feel free to come check out my Kay and German bow sometime, just send me a PM.

I'll tell you what I know about the teachers around here.

Beerman is the best bet around here, I don't think you can wrong with him.

Me too - quit for 12 years after college. Then my sister (who had the good sense to never switch instruments, never transfer schools, and get her M.M. right after completing her B.M.) convinced me to revive our bass/viola duet. I was 37. Took 2+ years to get MOST of my skills back (not all). Most of that time was wasted wrestling with an inferior student bass, so if I have any advice, it's get a good bass ASAP, since we're not getting any younger. The $$ you spend up front will be saved in the hours you spend practicing more productively.

Now I'm planning to go back for my degree and get a playing job before I get to retirement age. I know I may never be as good as I once could have been, but there's no time to worry about that now. Plus, you never know! The maturity can lead to a real epiphany and you'll end up being better than you "would have" been. If you have ever run into an orchestra musician who doesn't appreciate his job, you'll understand that starting late can really be a marvelous gift. You'll be in the honeymoon phase as long as your playing career lasts and won't become one to watch the clock and run out the door before the applause has faded, lest you miss a kickoff, a sale at Shoe Barn, or happy hour.

I mean the level of achievement won't be measured in just your playing ability, but in your enrichment as a person.

Thanks for these encouraging words. I believe all of this to be true! My thinking is that it is very important to identify "the" instrument that we were kinda "made to play". Although I'm a pretty fair Guitarist (especially after a good season of "shedding"), I don't feel that I really ever "clicked" with the Guitar. I'm in some ways kind of shy (... and have gotten more that way as I've passed 35). Guitar is such a "up front" instrument - especially in the Solo Classical and Jazz/Blues areas that I endeavored in.

The Bass is a more "supportive" instrument is most of its roles. I'm just more comfortable with that these days. Now that biology has settled down a bit and I don't really need to "prove myself" so much, the idea of playing laid back walking lines in Jazz or beautiful flowing orchestral bass lines really appeals to me.

... and yes with age comes maturity, focus, and the ability to "count the cost". I realize and fully accept that I'm looking at a couple thousand hours of serious practice with weekly lessons *before* the real playing even begins. I also can see that past musical experience/education and even having been "broken" through life circumstances (much of this in the past 10 years) can all contribute to a positive future for the "more senior" beginning bassist.

Yes I'm counting on the Carol Kaye materials helping me much with my future DB playing. Carol has done a whole bunch to "set me straight" (from wrong thinking, attitudes, etc.) and I truly respect her.

Carol's methods are very musically sound and I don't think she gets enough credit for just how good and helful they really are.

I couldn't agree more and you will find some really good exercises for middle of the neck/fingerboard playing in one of the Electric Bass Lines book when you get there and I will be working on that on DB for quite awhile.

You guys need to visit our Newbie Links at the top of each section! There's alot of info you need to absorb from that, including some of our family regulars who deal in Shen Basses...Especially John Sprague!!!!

Thanks Paul. For some reason I'm not finding (or correctly identifying) the "Newbie Links" that you speak of. Would you be so kind to insert the URL in a reply to this post. Thanks, Brian

You don't need a URL....Click on DB Forums....Click on Technique....or whatever heading you need.....then Newbie Links! You guys should do alot of reading under ALL headings. These, done by our moderators, exist so we don't have to answer every Newbies questions over and over. Good luck!!Oh, that Shen and other bass info is under the Bass heading.
Also John Sprague and Shen host our 'The Talkbasses' Pictures of some fine basses made by our heavy weight luthiers. John is the U.S. representative for Shen basses!
The Talkbasses feature is available at the top of the 'Basses' heading.
This also includes my five string Joseph Bohmann bass!