I can't figure out where to get a D# harmonic, We are playing the Firebird. The last movement starts out with a D# harmonic. Where do I play it. Or am I not understanding something about the notation.

Joe

ummm, i played that last year with nyo, and think you'll find that its a d natural. Play it where you would find a d on the g string (in third position) and then lift your finger. I could be wrong however....

What do the other bass players say? tune up your G? Your teacher? If you can't get any answers here, it looks like you're in the Bay Area, call some section SF Symphony guys. Call Barry Green........

if this is pizz... maybe stop the D# on the D string and place your right thumb on the D# one octave higher up the neck and pull with the index finger while the thumb is still lightly on the string

i donno how u would do it otherwise

What do the other bass players say? tune up your G? Your teacher? If you can't get any answers here, it looks like you're in the Bay Area, call some section SF Symphony guys. Call Barry Green........

Real small Orchestra! There are two of us in the section and my partner in crime is young and I'm old and only been back to playing for two years after a 20 year vacation.

My teacher is unabailable until several weeks from now.

Joe

ummm, i played that last year with nyo, and think you'll find that its a d natural. Play it where you would find a d on the g string (in third position) and then lift your finger. I could be wrong however....

I will recheck the key signature tonight. I thought it has a ton of sharps in the key can't remember. I hope I made an oops.

Joe

You could tune your G string up a half step......

You could tune your G string up a half step......
I think I mentioned that....This is what happens to us when we need new material......I'm afraid TBDB is at one of its all time lows in terms of new and exciting stuff to discuss.
Or is it that we're all so God Damned good ? :help:

So, how's the weather in Denver today? :smug:

Or is it that we're all so God Damned good? :help:

Or you could try tuning your E string up a half-step if you like your D# a little flat. :bassist:

So, how's the weather in Denver today? :smug:

Yeah, I know...I'm getting old and crotchity.....

I can't figure out where to get a D# harmonic, We are playing the Firebird. The last movement starts out with a D# harmonic. Where do I play it. Or am I not understanding something about the notation.

Joe

I rechecked the key signature, it does call for D#. The notation is a D# with a diamond above it. In the Violin World that would be a false harmonic played by fingering a D# then touching the string with the lilttle finger. Good luck trying this on a bass.

So far I have not been able to find out how to play this note.

Still looking

Joe

I don't know my overtone series too well...but I think you might be able to make the D# diamond come off the paper by fingering G# with your thumb and letting your ring finger touch the string a 5th above.

Oh yeah, and I'd keep my bow close to the bridge so the harmonic will sing out clearly.

I usually prefer to keep my mistakes, but here's the second take...

I guess your best bet would either be

a) a false harmonic, using your chin . . .

b) tune your E-string down to Eb for the entire movement . . .

c) put a clamp or clothes-pin on your string below the bridge to tune to the appropriate note, and play it below the bridge if possible . . . gonna definitely sound weird, but I guess somebody's gonna do it sometime . . .

d) Play a regular friggin' note and mutter under your breath!

Good luck.

I've been doing more research. I have come to the following conclusions.

The D# is what is noted D# is most likely not the note it is supposed to sound.

It is strange notation

When I find the answer I will post.

Joe

You might be right about that Joe, that the diamond directs you to place your finger on the string where the D# is, but rather than stop the note there play the natural harmonic that comes out instead.

In that case, simply set that bird on fire.

I did pick this line up: " The correct harmonic should be an F#
played by playing the open D natural string and touching an F# in first position." This may be of benefit if holding the torch gets too uncomfortable...

You might be right about that Joe, that the diamond directs you to place your finger on the string where the D# is, but rather than stop the note there play the natural harmonic that comes out instead.

In that case, simply set that bird on fire.

I did pick this line up: " The correct harmonic should be an F#
played by playing the open D natural string and touching an F# in first position." This may be of benefit if holding the torch gets too uncomfortable...

The harmonic that sounds when the F# is touched is the correct note. I think it is a B I will check with my tuner tonight.

I think the confusion was caused by notation I was not familure with. There was a good thread on the 2xbass list about this very issue.

Joe

The harmonic that sounds when the F# is touched is the correct note. I think it is a B I will check with my tuner tonight.

I think the confusion was caused by notation I was not familure with. There was a good thread on the 2xbass list about this very issue.

Joe

To me this thread was complete agony....I hope it's over. :confused:

The harmonic that sounds when the F# is touched is . . .
an F# on the D string.

an F# on the D string.
Yep. I can't imagine anyone doing this and getting a B instead.

When in doubt, go up and ask the Conductor what you should have on your music. He will check the score and figure it out with you if not just tell you what the score says.
Last year we had a weird harmonic written and it turned out NOT to be a harmonic. The part was copied wrong from the arranger. There were other harmonics in the piece but the note in question was a fingered closed note.
Don't be scared to go up and ask. A good conductor will be helpfull and check if the music is wrong.

When in doubt, go up and ask the Conductor what you should have on your music. He will check the score and figure it out with you if not just tell you what the score says.
Last year we had a weird harmonic written and it turned out NOT to be a harmonic. The part was copied wrong from the arranger. There were other harmonics in the piece but the note in question was a fingered closed note.
Don't be scared to go up and ask. A good conductor will be helpfull and check if the music is wrong.

Our our conductor is clue less he has been conducting for just 1 year. I did ask him and he said "I don't know about playing strings".

I did get a look at the score yesterday Saturday and it is indeed a F# harmonic that is called out. The notation in the bass part is just strange.

Joe

In the Vance books, the diamond is the harmonic's pitch. You've got your solution already, but just thought I'd throw that out anyway.

>I can't figure out where to get a D# harmonic


three things:

1. there is a D#/Eb harmonic called for in "Portrait of Tracy" (electric bass) and it is accomplished by putting your finger on a D# and then putting your pinky lightly a fourth above it.

2. This same thing could be accomplished on the double bass by using the thumb on D# (third position, A string) and then putting the pinky on G# above it.

3. Mingus' celebrated harmonic technique may be of use ... put your finger on the D harmonic, then yank the string sideways with a hooked finger. The pitch should go up, and if you "pre-bend" the string, a D# will come out. It's a little hard to keep stable when in arco, but it's a solution.


Good luck!

Which octave is it supposed to be played in?

Harmonics sounded on the major third above the open string should sound the (would be) stopped pitch two octaves higher. So if you use the F# as the harmonic node it will sound F# on the second line from the top in treble clef. If the D# is notated with a diamond I would be led to believe that one should use the D# as the harmonic node. It will probably be difficult to get a harmonic to speak clearly but I bet that's what Strav. wanted.

Let us know what you find out, should be interesting

so could someone sum up, in clear english langauge, what the resolution to this Q was?
i'm playing this piece next term and i've been play double for three months........so will need all the help i can get hey!

Dodge

This is Joe Taylor I am the orignater of this thread.

The bottom line is the score is notated wrong.

You just play the harmonic that sounds when you put your finger on the string at the #F on the D string. It will be flat, so you gently pull on the string to sharpen the note. Your pitch has to be in tune with the horns or it sounds real bad.

You can find the required note several places on the bass including just fingering the note up on the G string near the end of the finger board. I used an electronic tuner to hunt for it.

Joe

its just a d natural.

i have a score in front of me and it has a natural sign by it.

so just play it on a d harmonic on the A string I guess?

dodgy score or no glasses?!

dodge

It depends on the score you have the old one we had last year was not clear. It is the note that sounds when you play the harmonic found at the F# (b as I recall.) like I said before it can be found several places on the bass and you do have to pull the note to get it tune with the horns.

Joe

its just a d natural.

i have a score in front of me and it has a natural sign by it.

so just play it on a d harmonic on the A string I guess?

dodgy score or no glasses?!

dodge

wierd because the score that i have in front of me very clearly states a d natural harmonic and in playing with the orchestra sounds fine.

The version Ihave is a 1919 reorchestration from the Klamus Orchstra Library.

dodge

What note is the diamond centered on? It sounds to me like the written D is the string that your supposed to play the harmonic on, with the pitch being the note the diamond is on. I've seen this before.

well the note is on the D with the harmonic graphic on the G but the D harmonic sounds fine underneath the other instruments.

Dodge

Hmm. Maybe it's the reverse of what I said. Maybe the diamond is the string you're supposed to play it on (G), and the written note is the note supposed to be sounded (D).

or maybe its just that th diamond happens to fall on that line but really all it is telling you is that it is a harmonic and it is just coincidence that it falls over the G string which happens to have a D harmonic on it?!

Who knows hey. Bit to late to ask Stravinksy I guess....!

Dodge

Here is the real deal!

The diamond signifies an artifical harmonic. You are spposed to finger the string then play the harmonic where noted.

Fiddle players do this all the time, that is how they hit real high notes. The itty bitty size of the violin and viola that lets them do this. You might be able to do this on a cello but it woule be hard.

(there are three harmonic notations the circle, diamond and something esle I can't remember Google for Harmoinc Notation and you will find all of them and how to play them, beacuse of the size of the bass most of the time we bass players don't have to worry about anything but the circle.)

The key singature calles for D# and the harmonic played where F# would be. If you can finger a D# and play a harmonic at F# at the same time your a better bass player than me and you must have HUGE hands.

For the proper notaion there should have been a natural sign on the D#

The note sounded will be out of tune, flat, and needs to be bent/pulled to get the right pitch. I found that pushing the string from the G side of the string was the best way for me to do this. You have to match the French horns on this not or is sounds real bad.

When I first saw the notation I was confused as to what note to play. I contacted Dr. Mark Morton founder of ASODB and Tom Dirtheck instructer of DB at Sacaramento Start and University of the Pacific and look at the archives of the 2Xbass group to find the answer.