This question is directed at those of you who attended music school.

How did you choose the school? How did you evaluate the teacher? If so, did you use some objective form to calculate the effectiveness of the instructor? The program? The facilities? How much weight did you give to the teacher vs. the courses or facilities?

The best way to find the best music school is come up with at least 5 possible schools that place well in orchestra auditions ( Curtis, Rice, IU, NEC and Manhattan) Then you go visit and take lessons from the teachers and see where you like the most. Then do your auditions and just see where you get in.

As of late IU and Boston University are doing well in auditions with Jeff Kail a student at IU and Ira Gold a student from Boston University who studied with Ed Barker. I go to IU and I think you can not go wrong coming here. The facilities are great the teachers and ensambles are good, and its cheap. The only place beter than here is Curtis. Rice is good for grad school, becuase as an undergrad you have to take too many academics to get a BM. IU is easy and Hurst and Bransby are really good. :)

JGGBassPlya, thanks for responding.

[The best way to find the best music school is come up with at least 5 possible schools that place well in orchestra auditions ( Curtis, Rice, IU, NEC and Manhattan)

Well I should probably preface my response by saying that I'm not the student - my son is. He's a junior in high school and studies with Larry Gray in Chicago. Originally, we figured he'd probably study jazz but Larry has suggested classical performance instead. Figuring that he'd be studying jazz affected our original choices of schools to visit. Accoringly, of the places you've mentioned we've only visited Manhattan so far and liked it quite a lot. We tried to arrange a visit of IU during spring break but were unable to coordinate our schedules with Bransby. We have visited DePaul, City College of NY, New School, U of M and Lawrence. We will visit San Francisco Conservatory in May and probably add Eastman and Mannes College to the list of schools to visit.

My son took a lesson with Rob Kassinger at DePaul and we liked him quite a bit. He studied with Homer Mensch at MSM and at Julliard, is with the CSO and has a strong jazz background too. He also played for Mark Urness at Lawrence and he's a nice fellow but the program seems rather young.

[As of late IU and Boston University are doing well in auditions with Jeff Kail a student at IU and Ira Gold a student from Boston University who studied with Ed Barker.

I did a rather quick search of major U.S. orchestras and didn't notice a clear trend of school placements. Certainly various names came up frequently but no clear winners and a lot of surprising names too.

[I go to IU and I think you can not go wrong coming here. The facilities are great the teachers and ensambles are good, and its cheap.

Relatively speaking its cheap. However, its my understanding that they don't hand out much in the way of scholarship money.

[The only place beter than here is Curtis.

What is your basis for saying that?

[IU is easy and Hurst and Bransby are really good.

Why easy? Do you study with Bransby or Hurst? What are their teaching styles like? What are their pet peeves, etc.?

Pedro

There was a list made of the auditions in the past four years that had all the winners and the schools they attened -1997:
Minnesota Orchestra: no winner
-1998:
Cincinntai Symhpony: Boris Astafiev (Columbus Sym)
Oregon Symphony: Jason Schooler (Cincinnati Conservatory of Music)
Minnesota Orchestra: Matthew Frischman (Curtis Institute)
Utah Symphony, Asst. Principal: Student of principal won
-1999
Los Angeles Philharmonic: David Moore (Houston Sym)
Louisville Orchestra: Kingsley Wood (Peabody Conservatory)
Houston Symphony: Ali Yazdanfar (Peabody, Rice)
New York Philharmonic: David Grossman (Student of principal/Juiliard)
Colorado Symphony: Jonathan Burnstein (Rice U.)
Charleston Symphony, Principal: Charles Barr (Curtis)
National Symphony: Ali Yazdanfar (Houston sym.)
New Mexico Symphony: Kathy Olszowka (Indiana University)
San Antonio Symphony: Zlatan Redzic (I.U.)
-2000
Kansas City Symphony, 1-year spot: Ju-Fang Liu (I.U.)
President's Own Marine Band: Eric Sabo (Arizona State U.)
Seattle Symphony: Jonathan Burnstein (Rice, Colorado Sym.)
Buffalo Philharmonic: Edmond Gnekow (I.U.)
Tulsa Phil, principal: Dan Johnson (Iowa?)
Dallas Symphony, principal: no winner?
Columbus Symphony: Jena Huebner (Peabody)
Houston Symphony: Burke Shaw
Cleveland Orchestra: Charles Carleton (Juilliard/Curtis)
San Francisco Sym., principal: Ali Yazdanfar (not retained?@#$!)
-2001
Metropolitan Opera Orchestra: Kingsley Wood (Peabody, Louisville Orchestra)
Alabama Symphony: Long Luo (Juilliard)
Oregon Symphony: no winner (for 2 spots!)
Florida Philharmonic, principal: Shigeru Ishikawa (member of section )
Louisville Orchestra: Karl Olsen (I.U.)
Cleveland orchestra: Eric Harris (principal St Louis) won, then left for SanFran;
runner up Charles Barr (Curtis) got in.
Montreal Sym., principal: Ali Yazdanfar (now going back to National)
-2002
Charleston Symphony, principal: Scott Pingle (Manhattan)
National Symphony: cancelled; they welcome Ali Yazdanfar back
Baltimore Symphony: Mark Huang (Nashville Symphony)
Oregon Symphony: Paul DeNola (I.U., U.S.C.)
San Francisco Sym., principal: Eric Harris (not retained?!@#!?)
-2003
Indianapolis Sym., principal: Ju-Fang Liu (I.U.)
Boston Symphony: Ben Levy (Rice U., New England Conservatory)
Calgary Philharmonic: Jeff White (I.U.)
Grant Park Orchestra: Andy Anderson (I.U.)
Nashville Symphony, principal: Joel Reist (member of section)
resulting section spot was offered to runner-up, Ryan Kamm (I.U., Boston)
Louisianna Philharmonic: Colin Corner (I.U.)
Naples Philharmonic: Matt Medlock (Boston, Rice)
New York Philharmonic: Satoshi Okamoto (San Antonio, Juilliard; student of principal)
Louisville Orchestra, principal: CANCELLED!@#$!
San Francisco Sym., principal: Hired noone again!@#$??
San Diego, Principal and Asst.Principal: Jeremy Kurtz, principal(Curtis, Rice), Susan Wulff, Asst. (member of section)

Here you will see the Trend of schools

Well it all depends with the scholarship at IU. It depends on on your audition and current level of bass playing. They can be very generous if the audition is good.

I study with Mr. Hurst and I am very happy with him. He is very musically and technical(which I fell are my weak points) And he is a very good teacher. He has not realy quirks but is kind of "old school" BUt I like that. Bransby is also a very fine teacher but he and I do not think alike and have different musical ideals so I do not study with him. But he works great for some people and knows more about jazz and frequently plays in jazz programs here.

The only reason I said I would rather be at Curtis is because its completly free. But it is the hardest school in the country to get accepted to and has no jazz oppertunities.

Hope this all helps you :cool:

JGGBassPlya, once again many thanks for your reply. I had seen the list but did my own investigation. Here is what I found:

Chicago Symphony Orchestra:
Bass

Joseph Guastafeste

Principal - Studied at Julliard on scholarship.

Daniel Armstrong

Degree from the University of British Columbia followed by studies in NYC.

Roger Cline

Studied at the University of Michigan w/ Lawrence Hurst. He continued his studies w/ Homer Mensch at Julliard.

Joseph DiBello - No bio available.

Michael Hovnanian - No bio available.

Robert Kassinger

Manhattan School of Music w/ Homer Mensch and Julliard with the same.

Mark Kraemer - No bio available.

Stephen Lester - No bio available

Bradley Opland

Attended Curtis Music Conservatory.



*****************************************

New York Symphony Orchestra:

Orin O'Brien - Studied at Julliard.


*********************

Boston Symphony Orchestra

Edwin Barker Principal - New England Conservatory.

Lawrence Wolfe - Assistant Principal. New England Conservatory.

Joseph Hearne - Julliard. Here is a link to more information.

*****************
Los Angelos Symphony Orchestra

Dennis Trembly Principal Bassist - Julliard.

Christopher Hanulik Bass Prinicpal

Mr. Hanulik attended The Juilliard School where he studied with Homer R. Mensch.


***********************

San Francisco Symphony Orchestra - Here is a link to their bass section.

Larry Epstein - University of Miami

Stephen Tramontozzi - Eastman School of Music and New England Conservatory

William Ritchen - Eastman and Julliard w/ Homer Mensch.

Charles Chandler - Julliard.

Lee Ann Crocker - Eastman, Oberlin and University of Miami.

Brian Marcus - Cal State-Northridge

S. Mark Wright - University of Michigan w/ Larry Hurst.

I see lots of the same names over and over, Homer, Larry Hurst, Indiana, Curtis, Eastman and Julliard. And I have to wonder whether its so much the school or the teacher.

Please tell me more about Larry Hurst.

[Well it all depends with the scholarship at IU. It depends on on your audition and current level of bass playing. They can be very generous if the audition is good.

Story 'round the campfire here is that a local kid we know auditioned at both Indiana and Curtis. Got no scholarship offer at Indiana and was accepted at Curtis. Go figure.

Well that is strange because I know the person they accepted to curtis this year and he was from Cleveland? Do you know the name of that kid your speaking of?

Yep I know the name but he doesn't start until the fall.

[He has not realy quirks but is kind of "old school"

What do you mean by 'old school'?

[Bransby is also a very fine teacher but he and I do not think alike and have different musical ideals

Can you elaborate?

[so I do not study with him.

Were you able to choose your teacher?

JGGBassPlya how many bass students at IU altogether?

Yep I know the name but he doesn't start until the fall.
I ment for the last audition which was this year. My friend does not start until fall either. Who does this kid study with? Is his name Gabe?

What do you mean by 'old school'?
Hurst is one of the last of his time. He uses the same methods he has been teaching since the 70;s he has been teaching now for 40 years


Can you elaborate?
With this I do not feel that comfortable elaborating on this subject. Just not to burn any bridges or make any current of past bransby upset. Bransby and I are just like oil and water that is all I can say


Were you able to choose your teacher?
Yes you can choose your teacher.....just email them and see if they will accept you

JGGBassPlya how many bass students at IU altogether?
[/QUOTE]
Now there are 46 bassist here including Undergrad, Grad and Doctoral

[With this I do not feel that comfortable elaborating on this subject.

I was really just trying to develop a sense of his teaching style and philosophy in order to determine which of the two teachers best suites my son.

[He uses the same methods he has been teaching since the 70;s

What are some of those methods? What are you currently working on? If you could go back to your senior year what would you have spent more time working on?

Well Mr. Bransbys teaching style if very direct. He does not focus on technique very much. And he does not teach the fundamentals of bass. He works well with students who come in already set in their technique. In my opinion he works very well with grad students.


What are some of those methods? What are you currently working on? If you could go back to your senior year what would you have spent more time working on?

He uses the same etude and scale books i.e. Storch-Harabe, Findisen, Nanny etudes. He also has his hour scale routine which is very helpful......I'm currently working on Technique(with the scales and etudes) Bottesini Concerto No 2 for a competition this fall, Moses Fantasy on a theme my Rossini, and Bach 3rd Suite.

If I could go back to my senior year I would work more on intonation, and musicality and solo work. When it comes to undergrad auditions no of days solos make the biggest difference. A good college audition would consist of Koussevitsky Concerto, a Mvt of Bach from 1st or 3rd Suite and some basic excerpts like Beethoven 5 and Mozart 40

[He also has his hour scale routine which is very helpful......

What is that?

[If I could go back to my senior year I would work more on intonation, and musicality and solo work.

Thanks, that is very helpful.

[When it comes to undergrad auditions no of days solos make the biggest difference.

Huh? 'no of days solos make the biggest difference'? I don't understand.

[A good college audition would consist of Koussevitsky Concerto, a Mvt of Bach from 1st or 3rd Suite and some basic excerpts like Beethoven 5 and Mozart 40

Thanks again. You've been very patient w/ an old man trying to help his son. Perhaps if we are able to arrange a visit to IU I'll drop you a line and see if we can hook up.

What is that?
The Larry Hurst Sclae Routine
Long tones at Metrenome Marking(MM) 60 1 Beat to a bow, 2 beats to a boat and so on until it is 6 beats per note
Division 8th Triplets and 16th notes with whatever slurs you want
Double Stops of thirds, 4ths, and 5ths
and Arpeggios Major, Minor and b7

Huh? 'no of days solos make the biggest difference'? I don't understand.
Well it used to be to be a bass player you would only have to know a few solos and excerpts and that would be fine. But now of days Orchestras are expecting an exelent soloist and orchestra player. So when doing college auditions they figure Solos are the most important and excerpts can be learned at school

[A good college audition would consist of Koussevitsky Concerto, a Mvt of Bach from 1st or 3rd Suite and some basic excerpts like Beethoven 5 and Mozart 40

I Personally don;t think Bottesini is a good undergrad audition piece. Too many places for mistakes and is hard for most High schoolers. Koussevitsky is standard and shows a lot.

Thanks again.


[I Personally don;t think Bottesini is a good undergrad audition piece. Too many places for mistakes and is hard for most High schoolers. Koussevitsky is standard and shows a lot.

I don't know everything that he's worked on with his teacher but I do know he's worked on the Bach Cello Suites and some Marcello. I've recently been asked to get the Dittersdorf Concerto #2 in D, the Kousseveitsky concerto, the Sevcik 40 Variations for Cello, the Complete Double Bass Parts for Beethoven, Mozart, Haydn and Weber along w/ 'Strauss Tone Poems'.

What do you guys think of the University of Minnesota? Do you know what the academics are like there?

I actually really think that is a good school. I applied there for my undergrad and I know a few players there. I think Jim Clute and Pete Lloyd are wonderful teachers. You coudn't go wrong if you did two years with Mr. Clute and then finished your undergrad with Peter Lloyd. They have a strong bass program there and the school is a liberal arts school so academics are well rounded. But I would have gone there in a heartbeat if I didn't get accepted to Indiana. I am actually considerign Univ of Minnesota for graduate studies.

For my freshman year, I followed my girl friend, at the time, to a small private school w/ a small program. 2nd semester I was the top bass player, as a doubler. Tuba was my main instrument.

I transfered to a larger state school, with a significantly larger music program, where I studied bass with a TA (Teaching Assistant), but on Tuba with the main professor.

Find a school with a good teacher, that your parents can afford. In very large music schools, you may study with a TA the first year, in smaller schools, you will usually study the the main professor.

Are you the kind of person that responds to presure well, than a larger school with more competition might be OK. If you prefer more individual attention, a smaller school may be better.

Regardless of where you go, you will get out of it what you put in it.

Indiana University has the largest music program in the country yet i get my lesson with Mr. Hurst everyweek. The only people who study with TAs are non-majors

I realize this is the orchestra auditions forum, but i figure it'd fit better within this topic in this forum than in misc. If i'm wrong-feel free to delete my post or inform me and i will.

Do you guys have any tips for someone looking to major in Jazz Studies? E.g. audition material-any specific standards or variations of-i've got a real book so i have a definate source for the material, should i get stuff from the Aebersold Books? how much should be done w/the bow, Any other tips?

This is taken from the Cal Arts website:

Jazz Performance
Applicants the to Jazz Studies Program are evaluated by recorded audition only. Your recording should include four selections, two which demonstrate your main area of musical interest (original compositions are encouraged, but not required); and two contrasting jazz standards of your choice, demonstrating how you interpret melody, form, time feel and improvisation over chord changes. The performances should be with a small group (2-8 musicians) of any instrumentation.

-Scot

Thanks, i think i will call the various schools after going through their web page to find out more info. :)

[[Who does this kid study with? Is his name Gabe?

I don’t know who he studies w/ and no, his name isn’t Gabe.

[[Find a school with a good teacher, that your parents can afford.

LOL!! EJ I AM the dad.

When I went to school, affordability wasn't a big main concern. It wasn't my money, until my Jr year. I was going to a State school with relatively low tuition. Dorm room and meal ticket were the big cost.

As it gets closer to time for me to to pay for two children in college at the same time, affordability is a big concern.

I hear ya EJ, that's why my son knows that the 'special word' is scholarship. :)

If he is referring to Lary Hurts, I studdied under him at Interlochen Arts Camp and is the greatest teacher you can find. That alone would lure me to th school he teaches at. WHats the full name of the school? I would like to research it.

I havn't heard anything about julliard in this post yet. I figured that it would surface rather quickly. Or what about eastman school of music and Peabody? Those are the ones that I would look at first.

Eastman and Peabody both have been considered. From what I've heard both have excellent programs. Eastman is particularly appealing because it offers both classical and jazz but then again you're stuck in Rochester, NY.

Julliard is great but I hear very cut throat.

Personally I was accepted to all of those schools but I decided to go to Indiana University over all of them because of Mr. Hurst. I will not give my opinion on those schools, I will only say that I think Peabody is the best of the three

JGGBassPlya sounds like things are working out for you. I suppose a lot depends on your chemistry w/ the teacher and what your career goals are.

JGGBassPlya I'm curious, did you take a lesson w/ the bass professors at Julliard and Peabody? Homer Mensch is. as far as I can tell, thee guy and he's at Julliard (of course he's also at MSM and Mannes.).

Pedro, Yes I had one lesson with Homer before my juilliard audition. He is a very fine teacher and I would have loved to study with him. I think it is one of the great teachers still alive. However, I think homer is now pushing 90, but still in good health. I have a friend that studies with him and he says that everyday he comes to school he says "I lived another day, lets just hope for tomorrow." His age is the only reason I did not study with him. Yes Homer is a big name in the bass world but the only student of his to win any audition in the past 5 years was Eric Harris and he is 38 years old.

Yes a lot of your success depends on your career goals. if you want a more jazz background you would most likly not come study with mr hurst. but if you want classical mr hurst is amazing. or if you want both mr bransby would be the person I would think. Mr. Bransby is a very active jazz musician and is a great teacher

Thanks for getting back to me. I didn't realize Mr. Mensch was that old. I tried to look his birthdate up on AMG but they've changed it drastically and I can't seem to come up w/ a bio on him. Anyway, thanks again.

Hey Homer is a great teacher no matter what. And he is aged. I studied in the pre college while eric h was a college student as well as Rob kassenger in CSO. Anyway , bass technique has exponentially advanced in the last ten years so maybe a teacher with these new ideals in mind is a start. Tim Cobb in the Met is a great teacher-Curtis trained. Also what about Ari Yazdanfar in the DC area. He da man for the time being. But if its about just winning gigs or being a great musician the story goes" when the student is ready the teacher will appear"

oh yeah I almost forgot, John Clayton jazz superstar was principal bass of the Rotterdam Phil for a timme being. Now that is a great combo...

Hey fellas.. Happened to stumble upon this and saw you talking about schools...
I go to Curtis right now, and it's great for me. I can see how this place could be taken many ways. This has nothing to do with my teacher or the orchestra here, but with the attitude and people at the school.
I went to Cleveland Institute of Music last year and had the best year of my life. Curtis, musically is more stimulating for me, but I'm not having nearly as much fun, but at the same time, I don't regret coming here. Studying with Hal Robinson and Edgar Meyer is awesome.
Cleveland felt right last year, and Curtis feels right now. I went with my gut feeling.
Rock on fellow bassists...
-Alex

[[ I studied in the pre college while eric h was a college student as well as Rob kassenger in CSO. Anyway , bass technique has exponentially advanced in the last ten years so maybe a teacher with these new ideals in mind is a start.

You lost me a bit. Did you study with Rob Kassinger? We met him last year and I thought he was great.

Hi Pedro, Yes well we both studied with Homer Mensch at the same time. Rob was at Manhattan School and I was at Juilliard. We shared a stand two years running in the New York string orchestra seminar with alexander Schneider. Yeah Rob is a great person.

I forgot to add. Rob is a great german bow player. Well great bassist..but I forgot, he really transcends bow technique.

Thanks for clearing that up. My son played for Rob as a junior and was given a thumbs up for admission to DePaul. He was extremely nice and I think would make an excellent instructor.

G-force tell me more about Homer and his teaching techniques. As best as I can tell he's been the man for sometime but I don't see much posted about him. What I find is that Homer is like Miles Davis in jazz - anyone who has stepped anywhere near Miles Davis claims they performed with him. And anyone who has even remotely brushed up against Homer list him first on their resumes.