I bought a new, fully carved Knilling a year and a half ago at a going out of business sale. I never had it setup because the closest luthier was a good hour away, and I was just playing it for fun. I ventured into a mom and pop store that I'd never gone into before, and noticed an upright there. I asked the elderly man if they work on uprights, and he said he did. He used to play uprights in bands back in the day. I asked him how much a setup would be, and he said around $30, depending on what needed to be done. Should I take a chance on him and see? Or would that be a bad idea and just take it up to Detroit when I get the chance?

I can't imagine that he's going to do a whole lot to it for $30. And, I am guessing that has to be zero materials.

You sure he didn't think you were talking about a slab? :)

Uh... Chris,
If your near Detroit take it Wilson's violins. Rob just did me a set up and replaced the sound post (kept moving around) and
my DB now plays like butter. And I drove from Adrian in Lenawee County (about an hour and a half not counting rush hour on 696)
Believe me it's worth it

:D

Yeah, that's where I was going to go in Detroit. Do you know there hours up there? I'm down here in Toledo and couldn't get up there till 6:30 during the week.

Hmm I think their weekdays are 10:00am to 7:00pm
and on Saturday they are 10:00 to 3:00.
Take my advise and time your visit so that
you don't hit 696 during rush hour. It turns into
a freakin' parking lot in short order.

Let me know if you have any more ????

Thanks Mike! Do you call first, or just show up?I talked to one guy the other day and he said Wilsons had his for several months. Does it normally take that long? He had an Kay plywood. How about Shars music up in Ann Arbor? Their hours are more convenient, and their website looks nice(the web doesn't lie you know!) :D

Hi Chris,
I would call first and talk to Rob directly.
I dropped mine off on a Tuesday and was able to get it back
that Friday.
As far as Shar Music goes...
I bought my DB from them originally and it was labeled
as a Franz Hoffmann. However, Rob quickly proved that
their label was...shall we say "Not accurate" :eek:
The DBthey sold me was actually a Christopher DB102T Laminated.(Yes I knew it was a laminated).
When one of Robs' people
brought an exact duplicate of my DB from their storeroom
with a Christopher label, it was painfully obvious that they
were not being honest in this regard.
On the other hand, I wouldn't hesitate to buy sheet music
or rosin (Carlsons) from them due to their being closer then
Wilsons

Hi Mike

Thanks for that tip. I got as far as emailing Wilsons a few months ago, but it came back undeliverable. I guess it's just time for me to get up off my behind and get something accomplished here! Thanks for your help.

I bought my DB from them originally and it was labeled
as a Franz Hoffmann. However, Rob quickly proved that
their label was...shall we say "Not accurate" :eek:
The DBthey sold me was actually a Christopher DB102T Laminated.(Yes I knew it was a laminated).
When one of Robs' people
brought an exact duplicate of my DB from their storeroom
with a Christopher label, it was painfully obvious that they
were not being honest in this regard.
Actually, Shar was not being any more dishonest than a lot of other dealers. "House Brands" have been around for at least 100 years in this country. The way it works is that a Retailer will contract with a manufaturer to buy X number of instruments that will come either with the label that the retailer suppies or without a lablel so the retailer can add his own house label. Many German sounding names are coming out of China these days.

Chris:
Glad I could help.

BobB.
Well...Maybe your right. I just can't help but be suspicoius(sp?)
If I went to the used car lot and bought a car labeled "Chevy"
I kind of expect it to be a Chevy and not a Ford.
It makes me feel somewhat uncomfortable dealing with places
that even have the appearance of dishonesty.
I guess I just expect to much considering the state of today's
world.

Thanks

Chris:
Glad I could help.

BobB.
Well...Maybe your right. I just can't help but be suspicoius(sp?)
If I went to the used car lot and bought a car labeled "Chevy"
I kind of expect it to be a Chevy and not a Ford.
It makes me feel somewhat uncomfortable dealing with places
that even have the appearance of dishonesty.
I guess I just expect to much considering the state of today's
world.

ThanksInteresting that you should bring that analogy of cars into the discussion. What about all of the small cars that the major US companies imported from Japan labeled under their brand name? It isn't just todays world that has house brands, it's been going on since far before I was born and I would bet that I'm a bit older than you. The more import thing is - did Shar sell you a good bass? If they did, then what differece is it that it was made in the same factory that produces Christopher bass? BTW does Christopher sound like a Chinese name to you? Doesn't that sound a bit dishonest?

Being a Toledoan, I would also recommend Gary Ritter up near Ann Arbor. You might get yourself some home-made venison jerky while you're there as well. Tell him I sent you.

Hi Ray, You wouldn't be any relation to Gene Parker?

Aside from him being my dad?

Well shoot! I finally had the honor of playing a gig with him in January of this year. My dads an old time musician, so I've heard his name forever. Our sax player quit just before New Years and we needed a fill-in for our January gig. Our guitar player, who had just moved here a few years ago, said "Who's the old man?" We told him not to worry. He later said that was one of his funnest times on stage. It was quite the sight, our 6 foot 4 tattooed guitar player, and your 5 foot4 (?) dad, standing toe to toe, eyeball to navel, trading licks back and forth center stage. I almost asked him if he knew any upright luthiers, but I didn't want to let him in on what a hack I was :D

He's actually 5'6", but I won't tell him that you exaggerated...

He is quite a presence.

Gary's number is (734) 449-4021 and is in South Lyon, MI. I'm not sure what part of Toledo you're in, but he's about 20 minutes north of Ann Arbor right up 23 and may be close enough to help you out.

If I went to the used car lot and bought a car labeled "Chevy"
Today you will be hard-pressed to but a car that is from any one country. You can buy a Chevy that is 80% Japanese, and a Camry that is 65% US.

Shop-of labels have been around forever (or as long as Branstetter has been around, whichever is longer ;) ), and where the ethical rubber meet the proverbial road is indicating country of origin. for instance, if you by a New Standard from Arnold, he will tell you upfront that it's parts are made in Germany and assembled in the US. Most "shop of" labels will say something like "This Amati copy made for the shop of KeeperOfStradsSecret Violin Shop, Anytown, USA. BEIJING, CHINA". Perfectly acceptable marketing practice. Now if it says Italy without mentioning "via Shanghai", then that dealer is what we call a "bad guy".

John - I believe the "Shop of" labels you mentioned are a relatively recent version of the house brands I was talking about. I was referring to the ones that have a name of some non-existing or long deceased maker attached to it. They frequently have a name that is similar to, but not actually related to, a real violin or bow maker. The Ehrhardt Violin Identification and Price Guide volumes (published in the late 1970's) shows hundreds of (house brand) labels going back to the mid 1800's that have maker names that will not be found in any of the standard reference books such as Henley or Jalovec. Shar uses the name of a maker who died in 1849 for their house brand. St. Louis music uses the name of Karl Knilling, but I don't find Karl in my reference books. Regardless, it's certain that there is no one named on the label that actually makes the instruments any more than there is a guy named Chevrolet making the cars in Detroit.

Bob,
I wasn't really talking about country of origin as much as I was
talking about the appearance of impropieity(sp?) of labeling something(anything, really) as something other then what it is.
I.E. If someone at a jewelry store sold you a Rolex watch
and then you found out it was a cheap JC penny knock off
Wouldn't that make you a little uncomfortable?

As far as playability, Yeah it does what i expected for
what I payed for it.

So I guess in that regard maybe my judgement was a
little OTT.

My Apologies if I offended.

Thanks for the number and the info Ray. I think it's time to let my fingers do some walking.

Bob,
I.E. If someone at a jewelry store sold you a Rolex watch
and then you found out it was a cheap JC penny knock off
Wouldn't that make you a little uncomfortable?I guess I don't see the relationship between your Rolex analogy and your bass from Shar. I noticed on your profile that you are now calling your bass a Christopher even though it is in fact a bass that was made for Shar by a factory in China that also may happen to make basses for Concord (Christopers). Exactly what were you expecting from Shar that you did not get? You were expecting a "Rolex" bass when you paid a "JC Penney" price? Is a name on a label really that important to you? When I buy basses, the label is one of the last things I look at. It's only a small piece of paper that contributes nothing to how well a bass plays or sounds.

Bob,
I'm sorry that my anologies(sp?) aren't making sense.

I have no doubt that you are far better informed on
the whole "buying basses thing" than I am.

I was simply expressing the feeling I got from the
situation.

I really wasn't trying to stir up trouble and I hope
you'll accept my apologies if my comments seemed
out of line

Bob,
I'm sorry that my anologies(sp?) aren't making sense.

I have no doubt that you are far better informed on
the whole "buying basses thing" than I am.

I was simply expressing the feeling I got from the
situation.

I really wasn't trying to stir up trouble and I hope
you'll accept my apologies if my comments seemed
out of lineNo appology needed! Your comments were perfectly in line. I just wanted to make sure you understood how this whole label thing has worked historically. It's unfortunate that Rob's words made you think that was something bad happened when in fact it is and has been for many decades a normal part of business in the fiddle trade.

A friend of mine bought a Chinese laminated bass from Ritter, and it's a really wonderful sounding instrument, and Ritter spent a lot of time talking to him and adjusting the bass.

I've been dealing with Rob Wilson as long as he's been in the business; I knew his former partner, Dennis Lake (who started the store) back when Dennis was working out of a small workshop in a music store and repairing my guitars and mandolins. Rob's always been good about adjusting things until I was happy. When I picked up my nephew's half size bass, said nephew wasn't happy with the balance, so Rob spent some time working on the soundpost and eventually made a new soundpost while we waited.

I wouldn't try to contact Rob via email; much better to call on the phone.

The Ehrhardt Violin Identification and Price Guide volumes (published in the late 1970's) shows hundreds of (house brand) labels going back to the mid 1800's that have maker names that will not be found in any of the standard reference books such as Henley or Jalovec.

Ok so this isn't a reply to the posted topic but I am trying to locate this book by Roy Ehrhardt. Since there are three volumes, I'm wondering which one I should by - I am trying to track down some info on my bass, like date of manufacture etc..
(fyi it's an Anton Schroetter Made in Germany yadda yadda)
any help would be much appreciated.
Andrew