So far, nobody over here has taken advantage of the new features available - like polls!

So how about this for the Jazz cats! ;) I go along and see small Jazz groups every week and am constantly changing my mind about what the ideal small group line-up would be to play in or listen to. Like one week I think my favourite sound is quintet with trumpet, tenor,piano, bass and drums - then I hear a sublime piano trio and next week am impressed by a quintet with no chordal instrument and the freedom this gives the soloists and the challenge for the bassist!

I'll go with trio every time, whether it be piano- bass- drums or sax-bass-guitar or whatever. There is something about the intimacy of the trio setting which seems to lend itself to open channels of communication. Quartet can be fun as well if the fourth player is really involved in what the whole group is doing (and not just in his own solos).

Ask me next month and I will most likely have a different answer, but right now it’s a draw

Bass, Keys, Vibes, and Drums ala MJQ

http://www.britannica.com/bcom/eb/article/1/0,5716,2441+1+2431,00.html

AND

Bass, Guitar, Guitar, Mandolin, Violin, (drums optional)
Or any configuration of these guys
http://www.redhotjazz.com/hotclubfranceinfo.html

jc

For listenning, if it sounds good, I like it. For playing, if the cats can play, I like 'em. Though, generally, I think it's a little extra fun when there's no "chord" type of instrument like guitar
or piano, two "chord" instruments and forget it.

I had a group once with tenor sax and viola, that's a nice combination. Clarinets are really nice too. I'm lucky enough to be working with a quartet now whose horn play not only plays sax and flute, but clarinet also. That's a great sound, especially when the guitar plays a single note counterpoint.

My favorite setting would have to be the trio of Kenny Barron, Ben Riley, and me. The only problem is, they don't know who the f--k I am.

In duos and trios, there's more of a sense of equal partners. With a horn, it's more a sense of soloist and rhythm section.

Unamplified, I like guitar (also unamplified), bass and drums. I used to do this; guitarist had a 1937 Gibson L5.

Amplified, it can be either guitar or piano.

I'm more concerned with similar harmonic outlook than any particular instrumentation.

Also love bona fide Latin with congas, timbales.

Originally posted by Don Higdon
In duos and trios, there's more of a sense of equal partners. With a horn, it's more a sense of soloist and rhythm section.

Also love bona fide Latin with congas, timbales.

The equal partners thing is what I like about painoless/guitarless groups. It can be very open and conversational. (Mingus Presents Mingus is probably one of my favorites)

I probably haven't mentioned I started a job with a Salsa band last month. The bandleader says he has latin arrangements of a bunch of straight ahead stuff he wants to book a group to do on the side. It should be pretty cool, the salsa thing sure has been interesting!

Originally posted by Don Higdon
My favorite setting would have to be the trio of Kenny Barron, Ben Riley, and me. The only problem is, they don't know who the f--k I am.


I take it you already own and love Barron's "Green Chimneys" (one of my top 5 trio albums)? If not, let me know...I transcribed 3 or 4 of the pno solos off of that one. Kenny is a master. Harry Pickens, one of the guys I play with regularly and a great musical mentor of mine, studied with Kenny back in NY many years ago. He reports that Kenny is as beautiful a human being as he is a player, which is saying something. Rufus also talks about how easy he is to play with - because he can do it all, he can adjust almost effortlessly to the musical personalities of the people he's playing with. After hearing all of that, I hope to meet him someday before all is said and done... but if not, I'll still be happy with all of those great recordings.

I think the comment about two chordal instruments was right on with how I feel. I voted for piano, bass, and drums. That's a great sound.

Originally posted by Don Higdon
My favorite setting would have to be the trio of Kenny Barron, Ben Riley, and me.
Hey, I saw that trio when I was in Germany! But Don you looked a lot more like Ray Drummond than in your other picture...;) I agree with Chris Fitz, I'll take the trio Every time. In addition to the intimate setting, it allows for more freedom to stretch out and experiment.

They say that between me and Ray Drummond, there's all the difference of night and day.....

Well on Friday I caught another variation - Chris Laurence (bassist who plays with Andy Sheppard and John Surman and also "depped" recently with the Lincoln Jazz Orchestra over here) was leading his own quartet at my local Jazz club.

They had violin,guitar, bass and drums - almost like a string trio with drums ! Interesting sound as the violin sort of takes the role of sax player in a typical quartet, but is not so "strident" and can also be used for pizzicato "comping".

In this particular group, there was another dichotomy as the guitarist and drummer have "rock" roots and the violinist and bass player have Classical leanings - so it was Jazz being pulled in different directions!

guitar bass drums ie. Abercrombie Dave Holland Jack DeJohnette......

guitar violin bass drums keyboard al la Mahavishnu orchestra

Bass Piano

Bass drums vibes sax trombone al la Dave Holland Quintet

My most favorite combo to listen to, and my ideal setup to PLAY in is the guitar/bass/drums trio format. Everyone has to be on their toes and there is a ton of room to play around with for both the guitar and bass in filling out the space. My first ever jam experience was in a trio like this, and since then almost every musical situation I've been in, at least 70% of the time, has been this setup. Without a doubt, I LOVE it. When I have the opportunity to put a band back together, that's what I'm aiming for. Although after hearing some of the Bill Evans Trio work, I could dig a piano/bass/drums setup as well. But overall, the trio format is the real deal as far as I'm concerned.

Well, I'm in the midst of doing some writing for a trio of flute/piano/bass. (although it's a bit looser than that with some of the songs calling for the piano player to play electric piano or organ and some songs requiring the bass player to pick up a toy bass). I may get some of the first demo recordings down this month.

-dh

Like most here, I can get into any/all of the various combos-
Lately(like the past 4-5 years?), I'm into two horns + drums & bass. Stuff like Dave K's Mingus Presents Mingus...also, Billy Drummond's Dubai. Dave Holland's latest group, even with the vibes comping like a 'Fender Roads', has that open feel of no chording instruments present.

It's hard to beat, though, a 6-tet like the one found on Andrew Hill's Point Of Departure. ;)

How 'bout the sax/drum duo thing?
'Trane/Ali?
David Murray/Ali?
Braxton/Roach?

Originally posted by JimK
How 'bout the sax/drum duo thing?
'Trane/Ali?
David Murray/Ali?
Braxton/Roach?
I hate it.
You asked.

I love it!
(Sorry)

I still keep finding new combinations. Recently my local Jazz club had the Kenny Wheeler Trio. Kenny on Trumpet/flugel plus Stan Sulzmann on saxes and John Paricelli on guitar. John Paricelli, was doing a lot of looping with a boomerang phrase sampler.

So at one point in the middle of an Ornette Coleman tune, he started stacking slow chords and got a weird orchestral sound, with the horns soloing freely over the top. One some more conventional tunes he would use an octidivider to sample a bassline and then loop chords over that so that when it came to his solo, he had something to play over. On other songs he just played "live" - sort of rhythm + bassline.

The "open" transparent sound plus the attentive audience meant you could hear the sound of the horns much more clearly and I mentioned this to John Paricelli afterwards - he said that usually a lot of the audio spectrum is taken up by the cymbals - and you do really notice it when they're not there.

Originally posted by JimK

How 'bout the sax/drum duo thing?
'Trane/Ali?
David Murray/Ali?
Braxton/Roach?


There's a great example of that on Joe Henderson's "Lush Life" album, where he plays a duet in that format with Gregory Hutchinson on "A Train". I kind of like the sound in small doses - any more than that, and it starts getting on my nerves.

Originally posted by Chris Fitzgerald
There's a great example of that on Joe Henderson's "Lush Life" album, where he plays a duet in that format with Gregory Hutchinson on "A Train". I kind of like the sound in small doses - any more than that, and it starts getting on my nerves.

...I think it's supposed to "get on one's nerves". ;)
Henderson's Lush Life; I'm gonna dig through my stuff for that one(sounds familiar). RIP, Joe.
I gotta admit, I liked the Shorter/Gadd 'duet' on Steely Dan's "Aja"; a Weather Report in-concert highlight(for me) was Shorter's 'duet' with Erskine.
Anyway, I was blissfully unaware of entire records of mere sax & drums.
Coltrane's Interstellar Space...I can listen to that in one sitting.
Braxton/Roach? Right now, it's smaller doses/bites(but that's MY problem). One of their 'tunes' is called "Birth"...appropriately named piece(IMO).


How 'bout bass & drums/percussion? ;)

So from this small piece of adhoc "research" it seems that the classics are still the most popular, with the Piano Bass Drums Trio equal first place on 6 votes with the Quintet which adds a front line of Sax and Trumpet.

I'm partial to pianoless ensembles, one or or more winds/brass plus bass and drums.

Examples would include Mingus' quartet with Dolphy amd Curson, Sonny Rollins's trios, Dave Holland's quintet, pre-electric Ornette.

Piano is OK, but I like how the bass takes on a bigger role when the piano is gone. Piano trios are probably my absolute least favorite.

Originally posted by Ed Fuqua

ROGER THE BRUCE - depping ? I know it's Britslang for "subbing" ie substituting. But what is its real root word? Deputy, deputised, give it up...
Or is it like Johnny Depp, you know saving a movie/gig's box office by simply appearing in it....

Well it's a real word over here - a lot of it happens and it's quite annoying if you're interested in seeing particular bass players. I often go out of my way for a gig onl'y to find that another bassist has depped for the guy I wanted to see!

By the way did you know that an anagram of my name is "Nice Burl Fiddle" - it must be fate!

Also by the way, if you go over to the BG side (!) and look at the thread in Misc. titled "So, what's the best gig a bass player can have nowadays?" - there are people actually admitting to having been to a Kenny G gig and enjoyed it! :eek:

I was speechless - well almost...;)

I reluctantly voted pno, bs, drms (who needs youse stinkin' horns?), but of course, it all depends on the musicians and so forth. But I really never get tired of the intimacy and versatility of the piano trio: the telepathic empathy of the Evans/LaFaro/Motian or the Jarrett/Peacock/DeJohnette groups, the relentless swing of the Garland/Chambers/Jones rhythm section, the list goes on and on.

Playing-wise, I always jump at the chance to play a guitar or piano trio (the guitar trio has its own set of challenges.) Again, the opportunity for empathy and spontenaity appeal to me.

Not that I mind playing with horn players, but my heart sinks when I walk into a "blowing" gig and see more than two horns--the more cats on the stand, the less room there is for flexibility. I know I'm usually in for the tiresome "play-the-head-everybody-takes-6-choruses-drummer-plays-fours-play-the-head-again" formula.

My trio, when possible, is bass, vibes & drums. My big Labor Day fest-gig had that band backing tenor/soprano sax. The sax-player was worried that he'd miss that big pianistic cushion, but our vibe-player rose to the occasion.

I like vibes because their sonic range leaves a lot of room for bass -- pianists around here tend to have heavy left hands. Guitar-sound leaves room, too, so that makes a good quartet. Vibes and piano, for all that it is the classic MJQ sound, sounds bad if the piano's not really in tune.

guitar bass drums (Metheny trio, Frisell trio)
guitar bass (Jim Hall & Red Mitchell)
piano bass (Monty Alexander & John Clayton, Hampton Hawes & Charlie Haden)
sax bass drums (Joe Lovano, Dave Holland, and Elvin Jones!!!)
trumpet, guitar, bass, drums (Jack DeJohnette's old band with Lester Bowie, John Abercrombie, and Eddie Gomez

Can't go wrong with organ trios, with drums, and either tenor or guitar.

Back when I smoked weed, I used to love Cecil Taylor's piano trio, with Jimmy Lyons on alto and Andrew Cyrille on drums. Don't know how it would sound now;)

Originally posted by Marcus Johnson
Can't go wrong with organ trios, with drums, and either tenor or guitar.

But doesn't this normally mean ....(shock,horror) .. NO BASS!! :eek:

Hey, bassists gotta sit down and have a taste once in awhile...

Hello:)I use Trumpet ,Tenor sax, Drums, Piano or Organ, Acoustic or ele bass & perc in my band.You can here tracks from my New CD Melange, on Blue note records at my website at
WWW.LONNIEPLAXICO.COM let me know what you think about my music good or bad.
thank you .

Hello Lonnie - do you choose that line-up because it fits your compositions or is it your preferred line up for jamming - or is there another reason?

Sheila Jordan.

Vocals and Bass duos. Very nice.

Hello Bruce.Responding to what you ask.well i use the line up i talk about because is't small and,i can get alot out of the two horns.I think more about the music first and then jamming last,after the head of the song.also it cost to much money to travel with more then a five piece band.take care lonnie:)

Thanks Lonnie - I guess that practical issues may well come into lineup considerations more than we all think. I always think of Miles' great quintets as "classic" lineups that played exactly the right music for the time, but maybe it was more of a great business decision? ;)

As a listener I often choose which Jazz gigs I'm going to really make an effort to get to, by the lineup - after considering the musicians.

But I suppose people are constrained by having to make money. I was thinking that the two horn quintet is sort of like an "optimum" for giving tonal variety but being small enough to be economically viable even in small venues.

So, in my home town - large Jazz ensembles always get big audiences, but I suppose they cost a lot to set up and keep going. Duos or solo artists can struggle to get audiences. A quintet with two horns can do nice varied arrangements, but is small enough to keep together easily. maybe I should start a new thread on the "optimum" small Jazz lineup in terms of musical variety vs. financial practicality! Or maybe not...:D

One of the projects in the works for me is a guitar and bass improv jazz duo. I've worked with this guy before in a similar project and it turned out okay.

The fact that there were only the two of us made it possible to really listen to the other guy, know what he was trying to say and play something appropriate. There is also a lot of room to fill without really having to worry about stepping on toes.