Does anybody know any good excersices for intonation practice (apart from scales and general practice)?

Nick, there are a couple of other threads you can check out, but in short, the best way to improve your intonation is to practice slow arco against a droning tonic pitch. Don't bother with the practicing in the dark bit, if you read the post closely you'll realize that guy is a bass guitarist unaware of which forum he's in.

misplaced posts removed.

with nary a comment :D

One way is to record scales or anything else that is simple on a fixed-pitch instrument like a piano. Then play along in unisson, octave, fifth, third... flat ninth.:)

Stop somewhere in what your playing and check with open strings. Say you stop on a C, check with the G string.

Originally posted by David Kaczorowski
Don't bother with the practicing in the dark bit, if you read the post closely you'll realize that guy is a bass guitarist unaware of which forum he's in.

Doh! :eek:Sorry about that, I hadn't had my 3rd cup of coffee yet!:D

On the other hand, practicing in the dark is not necessarily a BAD thing, either - especially if you are often in the habit of playing with your eyes closed onstage. I still do this (candle light, but not pitch blackness) on both piano and bass, and I find that it helps me to practice and play in a more sonically focused way....this may not hold true for everyone, but I find that paying attention to what I am seeing takes away from my ability to hear as completely as I would otherwise.

I know everyone probably won't agree with this, but I've been working with a method called The Accompanied Rudiments Course by Don Hermann. It's Bassically the Same scale and interval work from the Simandl, but with piano accompaniement that goes from whole notes to sixteenth notes in every Key. I think it's helped me quite a bit.

I occassionally play long, slow scales in the dark; for tone more than intonation

That's what it's called! I was trying to remember the name of that. My teacher let me borrow that last year when I got my new bass. That's a good set!

One thing I've found helpful is to use harmonics to check intonation. There's the obvious ones where the fully stopped string and the harmonic are the same note (e.g., after playing a note an octave up the string, check against the harmonic). But also, in lower positions as well: On the G string, you've got F over Bb (I list the harmonic then fundamental in each case). B over B, G over C, D over D, B over E, etc.

I've been typing up a chart of all these which I may go ahead and put up on my website when it's done.

-dh

I've found the best method for developing good intonation is to use your ears. Know your intervals by ear. Sing along if you can. Of course, this is easier slow than fast. And you can always check your intonation against open strings.

Indeed, practicing with a drone is the best way to develop really good intonation. It's something you can do with any excerpt, any piece; just have tonic droning....

Using harmonics to find notes is a good idea, but it in fact only finds the placement of that note as it would be in the key of that string! Finding the D on the G string, for example... the harmonic rings where the Harmonic Series says D will be in the key of G. This may not be the correct D if you're in the key of B major, for example, but it's still a good general landmark if you're coming back from turning a page or something.

Practicing in the dark is good also, as your hearing is heightened in lack of visual stimulus, but it'd still be good to have a drone.

Practicing with a piano (Equal Temperament) might be good practice for "matching pitch with something", but it won't be really In Tune, depending on the performance goals....

The best policy for learning to play in tune is to always practice playing in tune. That is, *always* make it a priority no matter what else you're practicing or playing.

No matter what style you're playing, you always have to be in time and in tune.

David, kpo, or anyone else - what do you use for your drone pitches? Tuner, piano, elec. keyboard? I want to begin working on my intonation using a drone, but at this point do not have a source at home and need to find one.

I use a Seiko chromatic tuner, which emits an awful electronic tune for all twelve tones. Ugly, but a pitch is a pitch. I use a pillow to absorb some of the sound.

I use Cakewalk Home Audio 9. It is very simple to create a program of tonics drones to play scales over. Plus, it has an available metronome. Additionally, I use the software for accompaniment. It does have some drawbacks, but I can program a string quartet or piano, etc. It is pretty limitless. I think the software is under $100.

i find when i play, it makes better practice to play with eyes closed, and no disruption or distractions in the room. I tend to listen more to what noise im making rather than what frets im playing.
when i started this, i realised the difference!
You dont notice at first, but when u are concentrating on hitting the right frets at the right speed...e.t.c, u end up not listening to the sound you are making, and simply take for granted that u sound right.
er.....yes.....

more waffle later.

Originally posted by lucifer
i find when i play, it makes better practice to play with eyes closed, and no disruption or distractions in the room. I tend to listen more to what noise im making rather than what frets im playing.
when i started this, i realised the difference!
You dont notice at first, but when u are concentrating on hitting the right frets at the right speed...e.t.c, u end up not listening to the sound you are making, and simply take for granted that u sound right.
er.....yes.....

more waffle later.

LUCY'S FUR,

Playing with your eyes closed is a wonderful way to practice intonation on a REALBASS. However, the only way to practice intonation on a fretted PLANK is by turning those little knobs at the end of the headstock.

POSTING ON TALKBASS with your eyes closed will NOT help your intonation one bit, but it does increase the likelihood that you will inadvertently post in the DOUBLE BASS forum rather than the TOYBASS forum. When you do this, no real serious damage is done, but you do risk being ragged mercilessly by a bunch of elitist bastards who think they're better than everybody else because - among other things - none of their instruments have FiElDy stickers on them.


Regards,

DURRL YOU KNOW IT'S TRUE

On the other hand, practicing in the dark is not necessarily a BAD thing, either - especially if you are often in the habit of playing with your eyes closed onstage. I still do this (candle light, but not pitch blackness) on both piano and bass, and I find that it helps me to practice and play in a more sonically focused way....this may not hold true for everyone, but I find that paying attention to what I am seeing takes away from my ability to hear as completely as I would otherwise.

ahem, merely holding up your theory.
:rolleyes: :confused: :rolleyes:

ps, fieldy? ***?

anywayz, who says i dont play double bass? i dont own one, cos they cost more than my house, but i try to get as much time on my schools one as possible.

still, u beat me, so i shall leave this place ........booooohooo.

(nah, seriously, im sorry guys, just dont jump to such fast conclusions, just cos im 15, dont mean im a feildy addict, whatever that is)

Above unison and harmony practice with recorded fixed-pitch contraptions, record the chordal accompaniment on some keyboarded beast (or find a pianist that owes you favors) and play melodies and bass notes with the Stick'O Pain. Nothing else will get you playing in tune faster. Melodies are actually better for this as you won't find 'safe harbor' (a spot where you can cover a bunch of the tune without shifting) as often.

Originally posted by lucifer
anywayz, who says i dont play double bass? i dont own one, cos they cost more than my house, but i try to get as much time on my schools one as possible.

still, u beat me, so i shall leave this place ........booooohooo.

(nah, seriously, im sorry guys, just dont jump to such fast conclusions, just cos im 15, dont mean im a feildy addict, whatever that is)




LOOSE CYBORG,

For the record, I was just going by what your profile listed: Two Planks and influences by RHCP and Marilyn Manson ...everything else was just goofing around. But you have to admit, the thought of a fretted BG player trying to improve his INTONATION (which is the subject of this thread) by practicing in the dark is pretty funny, is it not?

Originally posted by lucifer
still, u beat me, so i shall leave this place ........booooohooo.

(nah, seriously, im sorry guys, just dont jump to such fast conclusions, just cos im 15, dont mean im a feildy addict, whatever that is)

This guy must be a friend of G.Jr

yup, that is funny.....anywayz, manson shouldnt be there, the bass in manson is terrible....er.....
er.......what was i gonna say? er...yes, whosthe guy reffered too in the above message? and what have u got against electric bass players?

Hey Chris,

I think he just answered my question.

argh, they are ganging up on my ignorant child mind!

Originally posted by jimclark68
David, kpo, or anyone else - what do you use for your drone pitches?

I have a little Yamaha cassette-sized metronome that doubles as a chromatic tuner.

Originally posted by Chris Fitzgerald



LOOSE CYBORG,
the thought of a fretted BG player trying to improve his INTONATION (which is the subject of this thread) by practicing in the dark is pretty funny, is it not?


What if the bass player is so ugly that he has to turn off the lights just so he can sneak up on his bass.

Update for anyone interested... I got a Korg CA-30 tuner that produces reference pitches from Quinn Violins for $16.95. Best price I found. Like Don's Seiko, it is LOUD, but a piece of electrical tape over part of the speaker tamed it.

One thing you can do are refference exersizes like playing the root II root III root IV root V root VI root VII etc over three octaves. Works good with arpeggios and their inversions too and hearing the relationships between chord tones is essential to playing in tune. Starting with open strings is obvious and as yer ears warm to the idea it becomes easier to work with a stopped root.

Also as soon as you notice your focus slipping STOP! I think it actually hurts yer intonation to "practice" while thinking about anything other than the task at hand. It re-inforces not-listening which is a huge reason for playing out of tune.

Also, also did anyone mention PLAY WITH THE BOW A LOT??? The length of an arco note is much more telling than pizz.

hey jim(clarke68) -

how did that korg tuner from quinn work out? can't beat that price, eh?

sean p

The Korg tuner is pretty decent for the price, especially considering that you can vary the pitch. The only drawbacks are that 1) it is LOUD. I have to put a piece of duct tape over most of the speaker to bring it down to a reasonable volume. 2) the fact that the pitches are 1-2 octaves higher than the bass means that your ear has to be really working hard when you practice with it. I have not used it as much as I anticipated since I play regularly with others, which is the best method of leaning to play in tune. But it was well worth the small $$$.

Hi

How to practise intonation? Most students play scales and maybe try to listen to the intonation. But I'm sorry that's not enough. You have to have a good handposition and if you play using 3 finger technique the 1st finger should stretch almost as far as you can from the 2nd. 2nd, 3rd and 4th fingers should be together. You can practise this playing one position at a time (you can check out Ludwig Streichers 1st book) playing major and minor thirds and fifths to check if the handposition is good. Then when moving from one position to the next (F. Petracchi, simplified higher technique (I think it's called) is good for this) you can think about putting 1st finger at exacly the same place as 2nd was. Keep the handposition while moving the hand from half to first position.

In thumb position it's most important that the elbow is high enough so the wrist won't lock and be stiff. Always keep the thumb on the string, makes it easier to vibrate and move from one position to another.

Another important thing is the bow. The bow which produces your sound has also alot to do with intonation. Keep your right hand relaxed and alow the weight of your arm to make the sound is the thing. A little and I mean LITTLE pressure with the index finger makes the contact. Without a good sound the intonation will always be poor.

hope this was clear! Thanks for asking. And remember that scales are fun if you can make your instrument sing without forcing the tone out.

Hi
My name is Jayson and I am enrolled in a Jazz degree course and am currently in my second year after a long break
Anyway I was wondering anyone with some other method of intonation practice besides I have finally made the switch to DB after playing EB for half of my life and man I respect the dudes or dudees that put the time to practice this instrument
Anyway I'd appreciate any help

Hi everybody...

My teacher is using Garageband on his Mac for recording some excercises from the Simandl book. He plays them on his piano, then he uses the transpose button in the program and then he burns them on at cd for me. It has helped me a lot to play to these cd's.


I get the excercises i all twelve keys and for the ultimate workout one could use the stick'o'pain...

just a tip...

Mr. Engberg. Denmark...

Yeah,
I use garageband for these exercises too.
I have scales, shifting exercises and some of the Petrachi exercises in there. I always bring my laptop and burn playalong CD's in lessons.

It's important to "sing" the note out loud (and not!) before you play. I think it's important to make your fingers play the note you want to hear, rather than trying for some mystical "muscle memory".

In high school, I spent a few months playing only in Ab. Simandl studies, scales, intervals etc, all in one key. It really helped me to hear that key and get over how hard it can be to play in on the bass.

best regards,

Laurence Mollerup
Vancouver, Canada

My teacher is using Garageband on his Mac for recording some excercises from the Simandl book.


I have some Simandl exercises entered in my Score Writer notation program. Since the PC is hooked up to the stereo system, I simply hit the button and play along. It's good for some aspects of practising (but certainly not all)....

Currently I play on 3 differnt Bass with various shoulder heights, widths and string lengths. I use the Bass that is best for the Performance or Gig. To get in tune with the "Bass of the Day". I play various svcales like f-f, g-g in key of f, a-a and up to f-f octave and back down all in the key of F with 8 notes to a bow at a moderate tempo. I also do this in G. Then I play the first movement of the Eccles or parts of the Dragonetti... I play ALL of this with my "Eyes CLOSED". This helps my body to adjust to the string length, Shoulder height n width and the response of the Bass as well. It also helps my Bow control and technique as I rely on feel and sound only and can't see to make any adjustments.

I also play various Arpeggios within the key of F and G in the same manner I play the scales but with single or maybe slurred bowing. Moving to Ab and Db scrambles you brain a little and focus on intonation becomes secondary.

There is no best way to practice. You have to find the way that fits your schedule and learning curve. I also play these things slowly but I can't cover as much material without picking up the tempo.

Memorize a few things you can play with out reading the music. 5 minutes of music shoul be a good goal at first and then work it up to 20 minutes of music. Slow practicing with your Eyes open is also necessary of course but when you perform and have to read and follow the conductor, the last thing you will see is yourself..

How about this:

If you have a piano or keyboard at hand - all the better as you can put a weight on the sustain pedal.

Play a C Major triad on the piano so you can hear it and whilst it is sounding play:

C E G, E G C, G C E, C E G and back down again. This will take you through two octaves only.

Do the same in all the other 11 keys.

Next, do the same with minor, augmented and dimished triads.

Ideally you should eventually be able to do this throughout the whole range of the instrument without thinking about it too much, and eventually without the piano as a the guide- you will just 'hear them'.

The triad, after all, is the most basic building block of Western Music. You can then go from there to add sevenths, ninths, elevenths,and thirteenths.

This helped me any way. :)

One method i do, is to play Double stops, usually an interval of a 3rd, and do scales in double stops. Also, when playing "out of tune" notes, instead of stopping the whole scale together, just continue playing without sliding up or down to put the note in tune, and rather just think in your mind 'ok, that d flat was a little flat, make sure its a little higher up on the way down'... thats my method... Also, lots of sloww longgggg playing :P

You are just not going to beat out Simandl and Major and Minor Scales with a bow. Other things may work - rubbing two sticks together will get you a fire eventually.
Unless a piano has been just concert tuned it is about the worst thing you can do to use one for intonation. Keyboards are another story.
Checking your work with a chromatic tuner but not relying on it is also
a good idea.
In the end you have to know what the notes you are trying to play sound like, and you have to know where they are located on the neck.

A lot of this has been said already but it's what I think are the important things about playing in tune......

Relax your body, empty your mind.

Tune your bass every time you pick it up so that your initial aural consciousness is one of intonation.

It doesn't matter what you play as long as you play it slow enough to play it very accurately in tune.

Play with the bow a lot.

Play with a metronome and observe many regular rests.
4 beats of silence is like hitting the reset button on your ears and learning to hear in tune is essential to playing in tune.

As soon as your concentration begins to wander STOP PLAYING. Playing without listening very deeply and without full attention is worthless.
That said you need to be very relaxed physically and not too serious or you end up thinking about concentrating and still not playing in tune.

Don't be afraid to make mistakes and sound terrible. You can't beat yourself up for playing poorly and concentrate on playing well at the same time.

Record your practice and evaluate it later.
Yes, later.
The practice and the listening evaluation are two separate things, don't mix them or both suffer.

jeff

A lot of this has been said but it's what I think are the important things about playing in tune......

Relax you body, empty your mind.

Tune your bass every time you pick it up so that your initial aural consciousness is one of intonation.

It doesn't matter what you play as long as you play it slow enough to play it very accurately in tune.

Play with the bow a lot.

Play with a metronome and observe many regular rests.
4 beats of silence is like hitting the reset button on your ears and learning to hear in tune is essential playing in tune.

As soon as your concentration begins to wander STOP PLAYING. Playing without listening very deeply and without full attention is worthless.
That said you need to be very relaxed physically and not too serious or you end up thinking about concentrating and still not playing in tune.

Don't be afraid to make mistakes and sound terrible. You can't beat yourself up for playing poorly and concentrate on playing well at the same time.

Record you practice and evaluate it later.
Yes, later.
The practice and the listening evaluation are two things, don't mix them or both suffer.

jeff


+1 Fantastic advice.

Someone mentioned singing a note before you play. I think this a great idea and do this in my scale practice.

Playing along to a drone is great. Those metronome drones though I think don't have the rich overtones that real instruments have and as such sound different when in tune than with a live instrument. I use this http://www.navarrorivermusic.com/cello_drones.php.
It has the added advantage of making me really mellow which helps my focus.

Also taking the exercises out of Zimmerman's bowing book and playing them in thirds up th scale is really an amazing way to work on intonation. Plus you work on string crossing and bowing patterns at the same time. So for example, if we use a major scale one would play the bowing pattern he or she has chosen and then for the same duration as the pattern drone the appropriate third in the triad, ie in major M3, m3, m3, etc. Then repeat. It's done wonders for me.

The other thing I found incredibly helpful is to learn to buzz scales on a brass mouth piece. But singing is really the best.

In the end, the more you are able to hear the what the pitch is supposed to sound like, the less likely you are to be out of tune. So a lot of work away from the bass ear training is probably as if not more important than the work you do on the bass. YMMV.

Cheers,
Oz

I'm big on the drones lately
I mostly just set up the tonic, but I also augment it by having a whole scale's worth of notes (a couple octaves worth) playing back at once
it's a lot to take in and sift through at first
but every pitch you need to match is in there
my two cents (ahahahahahah tuning jokes ahahahahah ohno.)

Some good advice on tuning there.
Perhaps you can help me.
I play quite a lot in the thumb position but I find great tuning problems above C on the G string and above E up to the end of the fingure board will require a lot of work to get a good tone and be in tune.
I am prepared to work at it but any tips about what to do?
I find playing up in thumb really stops people talking through my solos!
I just want to do it better.
Cheers
devon pete