Heya.

I'm playing bass for 2 years now. Started with a pick but found out that finger style sounds a lot better. I'm fast enough for what I play, but I like to add my 3rd finger if I ever need the speed.

I'm gaining strenght, but it looks like I have to decide how I want to do it since it's training in mucle repetition. What's the right way?

For example:
Sheehan plays: 3-2-1-3-2-1
ring-middle-index-ring-middle-index

DiGiorgio and Webster for example: 3-2-1-2-3-2-1
ring-middle-index-middle-ring-middle-index

Sheehans style is easier for me at the moment although I think Digiorgios style is better.
What do you think?

Heya.

I'm playing bass for 2 years now. Started with a pick but found out that finger style sounds a lot better. I'm fast enough for what I play, but I like to add my 3rd finger if I ever need the speed.

I'm gaining strenght, but it looks like I have to decide how I want to do it since it's training in mucle repetition. What's the right way?

For example:
Sheehan plays: 3-2-1-3-2-1
ring-middle-index-ring-middle-index

DiGiorgio and Webster for example: 3-2-1-2-3-2-1
ring-middle-index-middle-ring-middle-index

Sheehans style is easier for me at the moment although I think Digiorgios style is better.
What do you think?

I normally play with two fingers to achieve speed.

It is in more complex songs like the bridge of 'the Rime of the Ancient Mariner' I use three.I do 1-2-3-1-2-3.

i always use 3 finger and its like : 1-3-2-1-3-2 and i dont know y :P and i think its not that much important. just try some different types and choose which is best for you. do you think that 3-2-1 faster than 1-2-3 or 2-3-1 or.......goes. find out which fits with you and dig it

I try not to have a set sequence, I feel what I play. I feel that it's best not to have a set mentality of the "right" way to play.. Just play your music.

I try not to have a set sequence, I feel what I play. I feel that it's best not to have a set mentality of the "right" way to play.. Just play your music.
I agree. I dont always play 1-2-1-2-1-2-1-2 etc..sometimes depending on the string switching or whatever i might do 1-2-1-1-2-1-1-2-....

I think it depends on what kind of rythm you are playing.

132132 is good for triplets but 12321232 would be better for groups of four. You want to make sure that you are keeping the rythm by having one finger (preferably the index) playing the pulse.

I think Sheehan's method is the best and most natural.

Just drum your fingers on the table, notice something?

You start with the pinky and move through to the index.

Changing directions aka 12321 is not ergonomic IMO and not very effective since it'll always slow you down compared to the Sheehan method.

but i want to add that i dont know is that happening to you but for ex. you are playing with a band and unision part or bass solo bars are coming. if i start it with my index its ok but if i start to playing the solo with my ring finger or middle i cant play :-/ its crap

I think it depends on what kind of rythm you are playing.

132132 is good for triplets but 12321232 would be better for groups of four. You want to make sure that you are keeping the rythm by having one finger (preferably the index) playing the pulse.

Why can't the main beat be played alternating between all 3 fingers? 3-2-1-3, 2-1-3-2, 1-3-2-1 is'nt that hard to do once you get the hang of it - it's actually more of a brain/coordination teaser than anything - and once you get it down, your fingers will fell more like one plucking unit than separate "pluckers".

Works for me (after months of practice, but still...)!

I do it like, 321-321.

I hope nobody will mind me linking to another forum ( :ninja: ), but I wrote a lesson there that I think will help you quite a lot.

Check it out here : http://www.musicianforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=192180

woah. i was looking at some tabs, saw that in the lessons tab thing which i never look at, and read that already. lol, looks pretty good man.

joejet is right. As Wooten would say, you need to control the technique, not have the technique control you. He and Steve Bailey, and I'm sure many others, make sure they can do any order and any rhythmic combination with their respective techniques. This ensures that you don't have to think of the pattern when you're playing. You just kind of do it. Peace.

p.s. From my experience, three fingers may or may not be faster on one string. It's main advantage is speed in string crossings, especially to higher strings (pitch wise). Another really good example of three finger technique I didn't see mentioned is Gary Willis.

on what figjam said about not doing alt. rt. hand fingering, I do the same. dont you think its wrong?

.... i tried like the correct way of right hand tech. for master of puppets and it does feel better and sound natural like the song. I think if i go on later to learn great super fast solos, correcting now wont create problems right???

e.g.
i m i m i m instead of
i m i i m i ....)
--------------------------
---------------------------
--------0-2-3--------------
-0-2-3---------------------

i realized the major scale sounds a lot neater when played with correct right hand tech. What ya think??? esp. descending!!!

ON what figjam said...I think its wrong

rt. hand should almost always be i m i m or .... m i m i right ? Maybe wrong but my scales sound and feel much better now.
Any comments.

I use the 3212-3212 technique but have started to rethink it.
1. The ring finger is physically the weakest finger so you have to compensate with your technique.
2. The pattern I listed isn't necessarilly more efficient since the middle finger is going twice as fast as the ring and index fingers anyways. The fact that I see bassists like Adam Nitti nail fast parts with only 2 fingers sort of made me question my approach.
3. A bassist I was talking to brought up the fact that the 2 finger approach is probably the most natural approximation of a picking or bowing action.

I'm stubborn though and am going to stick with the 3 finger "DiGiorgio" pattern, because of the time I've invested in it and the fact that it has a nice feel to it. A whole post just to contradict myself at the end :D

I have tried to learn both, and use whichever sounds and feels the most natural at a time. Sheehan's technique usually feels more natural to me. Also, I have tried matching the fingers of the right hand to the fingers of the left hand, that's another interesting experiment to try if nothing else.

DiGiorgio's technique is slower and less effecient. And I agree will Billdog when he said, "As Wooten would say, you need to control the technique, not have the technique control you. He and Steve Bailey, and I'm sure many others, make sure they can do any order and any rhythmic combination with their respective techniques." And that is the reason Strict Alternate picking is the best cleanest way to play. And whether you play 1-2-3-1-2-3 or 3-2-1-3-2-1 is actually genetic believe it or not. Kinda like if you are right handed or left handed.

ON what figjam said...I think its wrong

rt. hand should almost always be i m i m or .... m i m i right ? Maybe wrong but my scales sound and feel much better now.
Any comments.
Not at all, going 1-2-1-2-1-2...etc all the time can be much slower in certain times. For instance, try plucking the G string with your index, and then the D with your middle. Then, try doing both with your index in one sweep. Going 1-2-1-2 is advisable for scales and beginners because that'll break the habit of always using the index and it gets a consistent sound for both fingers, but once you're past that, you can end up limiting yourself by strictly staying to 1-2-1-2. My technique is mainly index and middle, and MAINLY alternates between the index in middle, but if I'm doing a lot of octave shapes, I'll use my thumb to pluck the root and then hit the octave with the middle -- similar to slapping and popping, but just...plucking and plucking. And if I'm doing something that descends quickly and has a lot of string skipping, my ring finger will often sneak in and hit notes on the strinb below before my index and middle can even get there. For instance, when playing a descending C blues scale and there's a triplet on the G string going Gb-F-Eb and the next note is a C on the D string, I'll go m-i-m-r to hit those four notes. Then i for the next, and when it goes down to the A string, I use the ring finger again.

My teacher taught me the 1-2-1-2-1-2 and then told me to develop it with what felt natural. The m-i-m-r thing I described above comes from what felt natural when I started muting strings I wasn't playing. When I'm playing on the G string, my index and middle play the G, ring rests on the D to mute, pinky on A, and my thumb on the E. If I shift down, my ring goes to the A, my pinky hangs out in mid-air, and thumb stays on E. If I play on A, same except for my pinky joins the thumb on the E string. The fingers on my left hand mute the higher strings when I play low. This technique works wonderfully for me -- never had any problems with hand fatigue or pain.

If you structure your right hand technique absolutely too much, it'll be difficult to adapt to songs that have string crossing to almost any degree at any sort of high tempo. Learn the rules so you know how to break 'em properly. Going 3-2-1-3-2-1 just feels natural to me if I'm playing a triplet on one string, but if there's any sort of crossing you start to slow yourself. The ring for me is very useful when descending strings, but that's about it.

I tried to do that spider-walk thing with all four fingers for a little while...my pinky's just too damn short. I occasionally use it, but that's a VERY occasional occurance. It doesn't have the same strength or consistency of tone as my other fingers, so it just never really gets used.

It doesn't have the same strength or consistency of tone as my other fingers, so it just never really gets used.

I'm surprised more people don't bring up this aspect. I knew a drummer who was absolutely fanatical about having his hands sound exactly the same. He would spend hours working on snare drum rudiments, trying to get his left and right hand to sound even. The same should hold true for bassists. Use whatever finger combination works best for you, or use a combination of styles, and develop it so that it does sound even. When I started playing, I had a hard enough time getting ONE finger to play consistently. Just work at it, and your sound will develop.

Strict alternation to me always sounds cleaner. I've seen very professional bassists rake and even though they've been playing for so long, raking sounds sloppy. And raking isn't always faster. If you practice, strict alternation is easier when you have all the patterns up to top speed (whatever that is to you).

I started out with strict 1-2-1-2 alternations and it took me some hard work to get them to sound even. Not so long ago (what's a year for a bass player, right?) I started with 1-2-3 only because I thought that was how billy sheehan was doing it (only had a video of him at that time). A few months later I noticed he does 3-2-1 and as natural as it may seem, after some training 1-2-3 feels more natural now. Still have to work on it 'cause the ringfinger doesn't sound like the other ones yet. Playing with the fingers closer to each other helped, I try to pluck at the same spot on the string, in the beginning they were all over the place, looked cool but fingers got tired fast and sounded really sloppy, now you can hardly see them move at all. Do all of you three-finger-players have to deal with the same stupid sympathy movements of the pinky as i do?

Hi Guys,

Can any of you 3-finger heads play Flea's line during the chorus of Californication's "Right on Time"?

It's a fiercely fast octave jumper and you need particularly clean technique if you want to crack it with 3 fingers.

Rob.

Govithoy said:
"my pinky's just too damn short. I occasionally use it, but that's a VERY occasional occurance. It doesn't have the same strength or consistency of tone as my other fingers, so it just never really gets used."

My pinky is fairly useless, but I came up with a gimmick that impresses some (not YOU guys, I know...): I let the nail on my picky get a little long, and in a sort of overly-dramatic fashion, I use it to make a little rythmic squeek by flicking it across the string windings (flicking parallel to the string) on a fretted string right next to the bridge.

Joe

I think Sheehan's method is the best and most natural.

Just drum your fingers on the table, notice something?

You start with the pinky and move through to the index.

Changing directions aka 12321 is not ergonomic IMO and not very effective since it'll always slow you down compared to the Sheehan method.

Ditto, its great for throwing in triplets... Steve Harris does it this way, too,,, me thinks... ie Run to the Hills...

on what figjam said about not doing alt. rt. hand fingering, I do the same. dont you think its wrong?

.... i tried like the correct way of right hand tech. for master of puppets and it does feel better and sound natural like the song. I think if i go on later to learn great super fast solos, correcting now wont create problems right???

e.g.
i m i m i m instead of
i m i i m i ....)
--------------------------
---------------------------
--------0-2-3--------------
-0-2-3---------------------

i realized the major scale sounds a lot neater when played with correct right hand tech. What ya think??? esp. descending!!!

Not to nit-pick...But that's not a major scale...

---------------------
---------------------
---------------------
-0-2-3---------------

is a minor scale...Well...the first three...I can't think wether that's a diminished or augmented scale you tabbed...But the progression sounds kinda eerie....

A major scale has a progression of WWHWWWH(half steps being betweeh notes 3&4 and 7&8.) What calles the voicing(Major, minor, augmented diminished suspended) is the position of half steps...

My Music theory is improving...

Major

------------------
--------------1-2-
-------0-2-4------
-0-2-4------------

Well, you can't forget Blues, Ionian, Dorian, Phrygian, Lydian, Mixolydian, Aeolian, Locrian, Diminished (H-W), Diminished (W-H), Whole Tone, Melodic Minor, Dorian b2, Lydian Aug, Lydian b7, Mixolydian b6, Locrian 2, Altered, Harmonic Minor, Locrian 6, Ionian Aug, Dorian #4, Phrygian Major, Lydian #9, Altered bb7, Pentatonic Major, Pentatonic Minor, Augmented, Arabian, Balinese, Byzantine, Chinese, Chinese Mongolian, Double Harmonic, Egyptian, Eight Tone Spanish, Enigmatic, Hindu, Hirajoshi, Hungarian Major, Hungarian Minor, Hungarian Gypsy, Ichikosucho, Kumoi, Leading Whole Tone, Lydian Diminished, Lydian Minor, Mohammedan, Neopolitan, Neopolitan Major, Neopolitan Minor, Overtone, Pelog, Persian, Prometheus, Prometheus Neopolitan, Purvi Theta, Six Tone Symmetrical, and Todi Theta scales!! :D
Of course I think only 40 of them are 8 notes scales...
The others are 5 (Pentatonic etc...) or 6(blues etc.) note scales.
I don't expect any of you to memorize this. Play what feels good haha

I played classical guitar before I played bass so I already had the technique in place, but if you are really serious about boosting your picking techniques, there are some classical guitar books that you can get that explain EVERYTHING. It might actually be better to learn these techniques on guitar and then transfer them to the bass, but thats just what I did so I don't know what to tell you.


The Book is called

First Lessons for Guitar, v.1 by Julio S. Sagreras.

Its green and tan and published by Hal Leonard. It costs about $7 and it has a lifetime of technique work in it. All the excersizes are in trebel clef so you'd have to transpose them, but this book has it all. Its also in English and Spanish. Like I said, it might be better if you learned these on guitar and transfered the techniques.

Govithoy said:
"my pinky's just too damn short. I occasionally use it, but that's a VERY occasional occurance. It doesn't have the same strength or consistency of tone as my other fingers, so it just never really gets used."

My pinky is fairly useless, but I came up with a gimmick that impresses some (not YOU guys, I know...): I let the nail on my picky get a little long, and in a sort of overly-dramatic fashion, I use it to make a little rythmic squeek by flicking it across the string windings (flicking parallel to the string) on a fretted string right next to the bridge.

Joe Hahaha, that's awesome. Soundclip?


Well, you can't forget Blues, Ionian, Dorian, Phrygian, Lydian, Mixolydian, Aeolian, Locrian, Diminished (H-W), Diminished (W-H), Whole Tone, Melodic Minor, Dorian b2, Lydian Aug, Lydian b7, Mixolydian b6, Locrian 2, Altered, Harmonic Minor, Locrian 6, Ionian Aug, Dorian #4, Phrygian Major, Lydian #9, Altered bb7, Pentatonic Major, Pentatonic Minor, Augmented, Arabian, Balinese, Byzantine, Chinese, Chinese Mongolian, Double Harmonic, Egyptian, Eight Tone Spanish, Enigmatic, Hindu, Hirajoshi, Hungarian Major, Hungarian Minor, Hungarian Gypsy, Ichikosucho, Kumoi, Leading Whole Tone, Lydian Diminished, Lydian Minor, Mohammedan, Neopolitan, Neopolitan Major, Neopolitan Minor, Overtone, Pelog, Persian, Prometheus, Prometheus Neopolitan, Purvi Theta, Six Tone Symmetrical, and Todi Theta scales!!
Of course I think only 40 of them are 8 notes scales...
The others are 5 (Pentatonic etc...) or 6(blues etc.) note scales.
I don't expect any of you to memorize this. Play what feels good haha
Heh, I actually learned Byzantine, Chinese Mongolian, Hirajoshi, and Ichikosucho about a year or so into playing because the names were cool :D :cool: .

Hi Guys,

Can any of you 3-finger heads play Flea's line during the chorus of Californication's "Right on Time"?

It's a fiercely fast octave jumper and you need particularly clean technique if you want to crack it with 3 fingers.

Rob.

i've just started using the third finger a couple months ago to work on lines like that. i'm sure you're familiar with the song so i won't go in detail on how to play it, but i've had the cleanest results by going:

2-1-(up octave)-2-3 and back again

i'm not sure how mr. flea does it, i'll check out one of their dvds to see if i can get a look at his hands while he's playing it.

Ditto, its great for throwing in triplets... Steve Harris does it this way, too,,, me thinks... ie Run to the Hills...
Wrong!
Steve was a strict alternation 2 finger junkie. And yea, it took me a year after I started playing to finally play is basslines. They seemed so fast back then.