What are some of the tips/tricks y'all use to prepare for an orchestral audition? What about nervousness? Every time I do an audition it seems like I'm shaking so bad i can't even play. Any advice?

I'm curious to know what an orchestra audition consists of. I currently own only electrics but in college I played primarily upright and I'm currently saving my money for one. My musical dream is to play in an orchestra so any experiences and tips any of you vets have I'm definitely watching this thread. THANKS

Preparing for an orchestral audition isn't really all that hard, since you know pretty much what they're going to ask for... Usually, you'll start off with the first movement of a solo of your choice, or a movement of solo Bach. Then, it's the standards: Beethoven 5 and 9; Mozart 35,40,41; Brahms 1, Strauss Don Juan, Ein Heldenleben, or Also Sprach... I know I'm leaving out many, but I'm too tired to think right now.

I didn't mean to say preparing was easy... It's just that once you've got all the standard rep music, it's just a matter of drilling the material and getting lessons with as many experience teachers as you can.

There is no single answer to Bryan's question; what's required varies with the orchestra. Decide which orchestra you want to try for and call and ask. The differencescan be extreme. A friend in a major NYC orchestra who auditioned for the NYC Ballet orch practiced 5 hours a day for months prior. That's competition in the big city.

To resurrect a nearly dead thread... I'm looking at getting into orchestral playing again after a hiatus of over a decade. So I've picked up one of the Zimmerman orchestral excerpts books to go over some of the standard audition pieces (and figure I'll get more later). I figure I'm going to spend at least six months getting my orchestra chops into shape. I'll probably end up getting a teacher down the line, but for now, I'd like to do as much work on my own as possible. Anyway, I'm thinking that I would be well-advised to spend some time playing some of the orchestral pieces with recordings of the full orchestra. Not so much music minus one type things as just swinging by the local record shop and buying. So with this in mind, any recommended recordings of the standard pieces? Here's what I've picked up as the core stuff to work on:

Beethoven 5,9
Brahms 1,4
Mozart 35, 40, 41

Any suggestions on fun and challenging solo pieces to work on?

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Celebrate national part time workers week this Monday, Wednesday and Friday

Here is a quote from a discussion of auditions on "double bass list" a few years ago. An assistant principal wrote in:

"Auditions are a cruel fact of life. The more you do the better you get {and the more you know what and how to prepare}.
"I listen to heaps of auditions each year. What I hear are "the common mistakes" done over and over by most of the candidates. If you are given a list of excerpts, take the time to listen to and learn the entire movements that are excerpted. Lack of style or making it obvious that you don't know the piece is an easy way to leave an audition quickly.
"Rhythm is the next trouble spot. By rhythm, it is important to stress that there are two aspects: _1_ playing the correct sequence of long and short notes, then playing the correct pulse. _2_ being able to demonstrate aurally where the beat pulse is and how it modulates if there are any tempo fluctuations. If there is a pickup note, everyone on the other side of the screen should be able to *hear* that it is a pickup even if they don't know that section of the piece. Tecnically speaking, that means that you might use half the amount of bow on the pickup that you use on the following downbeat, even though they may both be eighth notes.
"Nervous Rhythm is extremely common in auditions. This is the tendency to shorten any long note value (or rest) and rush on to the next note. EVERYONE does it sometime. If you know that going in, you can take precautions against it. DON'T THINK THAT YOU DON'T HAVE THAT PROBLEM.
"When working up an audition you must use a tape recorder. You must sing phrasing and gradual crescendos over and over until they're convincing with your voice, then make it so with the instrument." Taping these attempts will let you listen to your self and see how close you're coming to what you *think* you're doing. If you don't use a tape recorder and someone else at the audition does, who do you suppose is going to hear themselves better and be more prepared?

Always use a metronome in your preparations. Use a tuner, and have it playing the tonic of the excerpt you're practicing. Having a tuner with a needle moving on each note doesn't teach you or your ear anything and is not necessarily "in tune" either, where a tonic lets your ear help you actually be in tune with the something, the key of the piece, and yourself.

The more auditions you take, the more you get used to nervousness. Go out of your way to perform often and get used to being "on the spot." You need to practice *performing* to get better at performing.

As far as repertoire, an auditioning bassist can expect to practice the *complete* bass parts to the following (among others):

Bach: Orchestral Suite #2
Bartok: Concerto for Orchestra
Beethoven: All Symphonies, but most notably
#s 3, 5, 7, 9
Berlioz: Symphonie Phantastique,
Roman Festival Overture
Brahms: Symphonies 1 & 2 most often,
occasionally 3 or 4
Bruckner: Sym: 5, 8, 9
Haydn: Sym: #88
Mahler: Sym: 2, 5
Mendelssohn: Sym: #3(Scottish) & 4(Italian)
Mozart: Sym: 35(Haffner), 39, 40, 41
Shostakovich:Sym: 5
Schubert: Sym: C major ("The Great")
Smetana: Overture "The Bartered Bride"
Strauss: Ein Heldenleben, Don Juan,
Also Sprach Zarathustra
Tchaikowsky: Sym: #4

ORCHESTRAL SOLOS:
Bach: Violin Concerto #2
Britten:Young Person's Guide to the Orchestra
Ginastera: Variationes Concertantes, Concerto per Corde
Haydn Symphonies #6, 7, 8, 31, 45
Mahler: Symphony #1
Mussorgsky: Pictures at an Exhibition
Prokofiev: Lt. Kije, Romeo and Juliet suites
Saint-Saens: Le Carnaval des Animaux
Stravinsky: Pulcinella
Verdi: Othello, Rigoletto

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[This message has been edited by kpo (edited June 06, 2000).]

Let me just say, kpo, that your posting was fantastic. Thanks a lot.

Any suggestions on fun and challenging solo pieces to work on?


***Here are some good pieces to work on:
Usually the 1st movements of the Koussevitzky, Dragonetti, Bottesini, Vanhall, and the Dittersdorf (E MAJOR!). There are others but these are the most common. Also the solo bach pieces are good, try the cello suites or the Gamba Suites Transcribed for Bass. (I like the Bernat Version or the Cello Suites!!! It also gets gets you some tenor clef practice! hehe)

Try playing for more people. Give recitals or just play for your friends (in a serious manner!)

KPO's response is dead-on, from what my teachers have told me. Particularly, the rhythmic mistakes. Typically, these types of bonehead mistakes, like shortening the value of long notes, are the quickest way to hear, "thank you, next." I would just add that some of these issues (not all, of course) are the result of bow proportioning. Leave yourself enough bow to get through the long notes so that you're not changing notes, or cutting off a phrase simply because you're out of bow!

Also, sustaining long notes is important. And this is an issue of having strength in the upper half of the bow.

i have not done a lot of addutions but all i can say is that everyone is nervous. don't worry about playing bad. just relax and the music will flow out of your bass better than ever. after the addution you might think that you screwed up but in truth it was hardly noticable. just relax and if you have prepated you will do great

Here is a quote from a discussion of auditions on "double bass list" a few years ago. An assistant principal wrote in:......]

KPO

That sounds scary, but also true. Basically I gues the message is one should strive to play all important orchestral parts perfectcly in tune, in time, and musically , be a virtuoso soloist, have the tone that the orchestra wants, be less nervous than everyone else, and be lucky. I heard that the odds of someone landing a proffesional orch. gig are 1 in 50 assuming they are university graduates etc. That means that if you take 50 auditions, a person will land a job somewhere, sometime, hopefully. Even though hundreds apply for the big city jobs, the same hundreds are auditioning for every major gig in the country presumably so the odds arn't as bad as they might seem at first.

I am suitably anxious. I have to make this work out for me. I'm starting to question the validity of practicing anything but audition material. Etudes, scales?, why bother. Just learn the parts by wrote!

Jon

KPO

I am suitably anxious. I have to make this work out for me. I'm starting to question the validity of practicing anything but audition material. Etudes, scales?, why bother. Just learn the parts by wrote!

Jon

Do not give up on your fundamentals! These are things that keep you grounded and allow you to learn and excel at what you need to play for auditions (and everything else too). It's amazing what as little as 30 minutes a day of scales, shifting, Sevcik and long tones can do for your overall level of playing. Sure, the amount of audition material that must be mastered can be overwhelming, but abandoning fundamentals will hurt in the short and the long run! Take the time. It's like brushing your teeth - do it every day and you keep them for life!

C-bus

Cerberus is right. You might also combine the two ideas by breaking each excerpt down into its component skills and practice those at microscopic speeds before reassembling them. For example, my current warmup is the eighth note passages in the Beethoven 5 third movement at 40 to the sixteenth. Bob Gladstone was big on this.

There can't be any set odds! Some hundreds of people showed up in Detroit in March, 2004, they tried out one person and in the end hired NO ONE!

You simply have to be the best player on that day, and show that you have what it takes, day in, day out.


[QUOTE=jneuman}
I am suitably anxious. I have to make this work out for me. I'm starting to question the validity of practicing anything but audition material. Etudes, scales?, why bother.
Jon

Well, learning them "by rote" can burn them upon your memory, and that's a good thing, but practicing scales and arpeggios is actually taking the same problems you find in printed music, by putting them in a "scientifically practicable" format.

On the filp side of the same coin,
When you find a hard passage in music, you break it down into a small, manageable chunk... and -voila!- it looks like a scale or an arpeggio!

If you start every practice session with scales, intonation and arpeggio practice, you've already fixed most of the other passages on your "daily goals" sheet!

Well, learning them "by rote" can burn them upon your memory, and that's a good thing, but practicing scales and arpeggios is actually taking the same problems you find in printed music, by putting them in a "scientifically practicable" format.

On the filp side of the same coin,
When you find a hard passage in music, you break it down into a small, manageable chunk... and -voila!- it looks like a scale or an arpeggio!

If you start every practice session with scales, intonation and arpeggio practice, you've already fixed most of the other passages on your "daily goals" sheet!

Hey KPO,

I wasn't really being that serious, just venting my frustration and disillusionment mainly. Is it by "rote" or by "wrote"? I can never remember. My natural tendency is to play more rather than less technical excercises, scales, arpeggioes, etc so I will never get away from that. It occurrs to me though that Western music is in effect mainly scales, chromatic and diatonic, arpeggioes and sequences, so like you say any tricky bit of orchestral part or solo is like an excersise any way if you isolate it an repeat it. Lately I'm really trying to concentrate on scales and arps. at different tempi and with different bowings and fingering etc. I could play scales for hours. It's kind of like meditation. Very good for the intonation too and stamina too.

Jon

Everbody

Just to clarify, when I mentioned the one in 50 thing, What I really ment was (I think this is what I was told), that of college music graduates, the statisical likelly hood of one being able to make their living in some type of full time group performance job is 1 in 50. 1 in 1000 for soloists. This was specifically aimed at classical vocalist though. I extended it to instrumentallists as well. I think the odds of making it as a bass soloists are a lot worse than 1 in 1000!

Hope that helps.

Jon

KPO
I heard that the odds of someone landing a proffesional orch. gig are 1 in 50 assuming they are university graduates etc. That means that if you take 50 auditions, a person will land a job somewhere, sometime, hopefully. Even though hundreds apply for the big city jobs, the same hundreds are auditioning for every major gig in the country presumably so the odds arn't as bad as they might seem at first.

I am suitably anxious. I have to make this work out for me. I'm starting to question the validity of practicing anything but audition material. Etudes, scales?, why bother. Just learn the parts by wrote!

Ok, so you're kidding little bit, but hey, there can still be no "set odds" - if you take 50 auditions but are still not in control of both the bass AND your nreves, you're not going to win a spot just on endurance!
Just keep doing the work... I'll see some of you at St. Louis in December 2004?

Which date?

I'll be there on the 13th.

Which date?

I'll be there on the 13th.

I also asked for the 13th. We'll see how it all works out after the "application deadline"....

St. Louis would be an AWESOME job: great bass section in a great orchestra in a great city with a low cost of living! You're essentially getting paid as much as Chicago or New York, since the cost of living is so much higher! According to bankrate.com it costs 31% more to live in Chicago than in St. Louis.

Plus St. Louis has some great pubs and brewers who are trying to make good beer to offset all that crap from Anheuser-B!

When I won the audition for principal bass in Astoria I focused on detroying the competition; the other guy didn't stand a chance.

One thing I find effective is the systematic degradation of peoples pyches in the warm-up room by playing the same excerpt they are warming up on louder and faster and better right beside them while staring them in the eye! Talk about fright-night!

In preparation for the battle: I awoke a 5 am for 8 months and played through list immediately at tempo. This is a good way to practise playing when you don't feel comfortable. Practicing outside in cold weather is great for simulating audition jitters (keep a plywood bass on hand in case of cracks!)

I've never really had to pick apart the licks but it is advisable to make sure you have enough rosin on to punch out the strokes. More rosin will keep the bow flying and get to whole ROOM ringing - not just your bass. The machinegun sound seems to win jobs.

As far as your solo is concerned I like the Sarabande from the 5th suite -AS WRITTEN. It is warm and sonorous and lets the commitee know that you have an extension (or in my case a sweet five-string.) From Concertos play Dragonetti, but play it loud. Really, the scalar nature of the first movement is like a big excerpt. Don't worry about the classical style. With enough rosin, it will surely come out.

Hope this helps and remember its all a mind game. I consider myself a great guy, but in the audition you have no friends!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

One thing I find effective is the systematic degradation of peoples pyches in the warm-up room by playing the same excerpt they are warming up on louder and faster and better right beside them while staring them in the eye! Talk about fright-night!


Whatever. If someone attemped something like that with me while in the hyped up pre-audition state, I'd probablly have to get physical with them and their bass. "Oops ,no audition for you today, sorry", or better yet, I would laugh at them while staring them in the eye. But really, You have to be kidding right? That is the most ridiculous thing I have ever read. I would think that any Jacka$$ that needs to resort to tatics like to win a spot must need the gig more than me so they're welcome to it. I miss the days when bassists were mostly cool people with ethics. You might as well be playing violin with an attitude like that. Disgraceful.

Jon

hilarious..

dude I bet your incredibow sounds awesome at 5 am....
I love your style but where is this astoria orchestra- I would love to come and study with you.....
G

I've never really had to pick apart the licks but it is advisable to make sure you have enough rosin on to punch out the strokes. More rosin will keep the bow flying and get to whole ROOM ringing - not just your bass. The machinegun sound seems to win jobs.This is such good advice, I had to quote it.

What was the deal, ACB? You were trying to kill the audition committee, or they were already dead by the time you got there so no harm done?

Nah, forget those questions. I'd rather ask if you've made any friends. :p

Johnny L,

Im sure you and I would be great comrades as we are both bassists and would have countless things to talk about (ie strings, rosin, books, fingerings, rosin, etc.) I do indeed have plenty of friends, but not in the heat of battle. This is all I was saying!

jneuman - A fine proof of my intimidation method. As you showed to everyone by the nature of your response, you would have been effected by my mind-play in the warm-up room. In the passion with which you replied (threats and so forth) I can tell that you were rattled - try to play beethoven 5 when you're rattled! Look, its nothing personal but it worked for me.

Oh yes, and earlier someone was compaining about nerve issues. Good books I can recommend for this are "the inner game of tennis" and Machiavelli's "Art of War". I've never read these, but people who have nerve issues tell me they're great.

The Astoria Symphony is an auditioned, pre-professional orchestra that plays standard orchestral repertoire. Players are paid a small gratuity for performances. The group rehearses on Wednesday evenings at Hunter College (Manhattan) and presents six to ten programs per season.
This you, stud?

One thing I find effective is the systematic degradation of peoples pyches in the warm-up room by playing the same excerpt they are warming up on louder and faster and better right beside them while staring them in the eye! Talk about fright-night!

Be still, my quaking knees. I hear this works great in Guitar Center, too. :rolleyes:


jneuman - A fine proof of my intimidation method. As you showed to everyone by the nature of your response, you would have been effected by my mind-play in the warm-up room. In the passion with which you replied (threats and so forth) I can tell that you were rattled

Yeah, I'm sure he's shaking in his boots, too. Your time here is starting to look really limited.

Good books I can recommend for this are "the inner game of tennis" and Machiavelli's "Art of War". I've never read these, but...

Kind of you to recommend what you haven't read. Ludicrous, but kind.

Gentlemen, please keep a close eye on our oh-so-intimidating friend here. If he continues trolling, you know where to find me.

jneuman - A fine proof of my intimidation method. As you showed to everyone by the nature of your response, you would have been effected by my mind-play in the warm-up room. In the passion with which you replied (threats and so forth) I can tell that you were rattled - try to play beethoven 5 when you're rattled! Look, its nothing personal but it worked for me.


Allegro

Now that I've cooled down (a little) I hope the extreme scenario I described wasn't taken as a threat. I probably would just walk away shaking my head and warm-up somewhere else if that happened to me. What you do need to realize though, is that the folks you alienate with that kind of agressive behavior might be the ones judging your audition the next time 'round. Musical circles are too small to knowingly PO your fellow players like that.

Jon

I've never really had to pick apart the licks but it is advisable to make sure you have enough rosin on to punch out the strokes. More rosin will keep the bow flying and get to whole ROOM ringing - not just your bass. The machinegun sound seems to win jobs.


i thought this was a joke at first...what licks from any standard audition list have you not had to pick apart? i can't think of one that i really never spent a lot of time on...

As far as your solo is concerned I like the Sarabande from the 5th suite -AS WRITTEN. It is warm and sonorous and lets the commitee know that you have an extension (or in my case a sweet five-string.) From Concertos play Dragonetti, but play it loud. Really, the scalar nature of the first movement is like a big excerpt. Don't worry about the classical style. With enough rosin, it will surely come out.


No one wants to hear you use your extension playing bach! what kind of advice is that to give? heck, if you're good enough, the committee won't care that you have an extension in the first place. classical style does not equal loud and rosiny. it hurts my head thinking that someone thinks like this...

I thought Allegro was joking too!!! Seriously Allegro, where is your gig?

I think that this guy is probably the funniest thing ever.

ACB - If you wanna go out for a beer some time, call me. I live in midtown and I'd love to hear more of your "eye of the tiger" stories. But I would have to have a good dozen beers before i could even begin to take you seriously.

i shall join in that meeting involving massive consumption of alcohol!

All are invited.

touche

I can see that I have somewhat upset my valued colleagues. Jneuman made a good point that it is not advisable to alieante oneself from other candidates at auditions as you may likely meet them again down the road. Of course if you win all the time...but still, point taken.

You have all opened my eyes that perhaps the stare-down is excessive and even unnecessary as I am sure good playing is enough to intimidate in the warmup room. Rather make visual contact with my 'prey' I will now simply focus on the task at hand -supreme victory!!!!!!!!!

As far as the beers are concerned, in all seriousness, I must advise you to abstain from alcohol when focusing on advancing your career. It will only slow down your spiccato and force you to use more rosin to acheive clear articulation. One may also suffer from a case of 'fumble-fingers' which can only be reversed by adequate rest, proper nutrition, icepaks before bed, and winsor pilates.

See you at the next audition - and this time we'll stay friends!

now that we're all friends again, I thought I would let you in on a little secret. In an earlier forum I discussed my 'mallet stroke' technique and I thought you all might have some valuable insights.

An excercise I enjoy is spiccato. But more specifically HIGH spiccato. My initial studies on the double bass were with the band teacher at the local junior highschool who happened to be a fine percussionist. He turned me on to thinking of the bass as a large wooden, stringed, soundboard - similar to the skin of a timpani head. The similarities are uncanny (read some Asimov if you are interested in the Physics pertaining to this).

Have you ever seen a timpanist acheive a loud dynamic by starting his stroke a mere inch above the head? No, of course not. So, in this day and age, we bassists must too learn a high vertical stroke like the downward thrust of a mallet. See, by not wasting time and energy on horizontal bow motion in the strokes, we can acheive the highest level of spiccato and allow the body of the instument to resonate the length and taper of the tone (like the body of the kettle drum).

Master this stroke and you are sure to turn heads with your playing. In my orchestra, the stands of cellists in front of me turn around wide-eyed a dozen times per rehearsal. They call the sound I pull unbelievable.

Start with your metronome on 120 to the quarter and thump out eighths making sure to clear the string by as much as you can. Through time the stroke will get bigger and bigger. Also note that one's stick must be very tight and one must use plenty of rosin to attain a core sound through minimal horizontal length.

This should help! Good luck one and all! In the words of Hal happy "strokin'"

Rather make visual contact with my 'prey' I will now simply focus on the task at hand -supreme victory!!!!!!!!!
That's legit! What auditions are you planning on taking?

I think that our new friend (stand-partner of the aforementioned retired dentist) seems to have misconstrued my earlier suggestion.

We didn't want to drink WHILE playing bass, we simply wanted to partake in a few adult beverages in a social setting. Saavy?

Could it be that some people responding are jealous of ACB? Many seem to be taking the so-called 'high road' of musicality and comradeship. It is because you can't punch out the licks as fast and hard as ACB with more rosin? ACB, you and I are on the same page! When I won my fat pre-professional orch gig I destroyed 100% of my competition in the warmup room too, the poor slob. I didn't have to stare him down; I sat behind him and blasted him into oblivion; each note from my massive 5 string jolting him like a taser gun. And I had bad g@s. My GI tract thrives on the competition!!!

But ACB if you are reading don't assume my friendship. If I ever see you at a pre-professional audition I will destroy you with my massive sound, flying rosin, and smelly f@rts just like the next guy.
Don't take personal. I'll post some handy bass tips too.

Oh, please...:rolleyes: What is this, some sort of "dumb and dumber" routine? Posting under multiple usernames is a bannable offense on this BBS. Let's all please keep the humor alive and well but ABOVE THE BOARD. If you wanna say something funny, sign your real name to it, or save your breath. This troll thing might be funny to some, but it isn't funny for the moderators. Just stop now, please. :eyebrow:

I think Kouss hit it right on the nose with those solos. The main solos from Koussevitzky, Bottessini, Vanhal, Dragonetti, and even Dittersdorf will be nothing short of impressive to anybody who you perform it too. The reason those are the most popular is because they have elements that show off different styles, techniques, and really challenge the player. The most important thing to do is to perfect them, god knows the worst feeling is having to perform a solo you're not ready for. Oh and for the pre-audition jitters, I suggest reading The Inner Game of Music by T. Gallaway. It is an amazing read and helped me overcome all fears. GL

Machiavelli's "Art of War?" Asimov on physics? The "mallet stroke?" The Astoria Symphony Orchestra? (I know it's real, I just remember reading the craigslist ads when it was forming in Queens.) "AllegroConBasso" AND "Prescottissimo?" Fart jokes?
Yes, trolls are annoying, but I have to admit I laughed at this thread when reading it in retrospect (just to see what it takes for someone to get banned). C'mon--"taking medication for Irritable Bowel Syndrome" as a hobby AND as an area of instruction? Twisted.

I am not AllegroConBasso. I have no idea who that is, but think they are cool. I own a 5 string Prescott. However, I may be starting a new website entitled, playbass.com or net or whatever. Maybe it can be a partner with talkbass.

Now that I've been censored once, we can talk more about auditions. One recommendation I have is to NEVER accept favors for ANY audition from ANYONE because you will never be happy knowing you didn't really win. For example, one I know who got their post this way has only deteriorated as a person and isn't respected by anyone because EVERYONE knows how they got their job. Also, anyone in this situation will never help anyone else no matter what for fear of losing their gift. They will live a life of constant fear knowing they didn't earn that phat paycheck and fearing who knows their dirty secret. EVERYONE knows!!!

Nighty Night.
Prescottissimo...

Please mr Prescottissimo, this is so boring. Come back when you have something real to talk about....

Now I know, "let sleeping dogs lie..." Sorry, Mr. Moderator!

I am not AllegroConBasso. I have no idea who that is, but think they are cool. I own a 5 string Prescott. However, I may be starting a new website entitled, playbass.com or net or whatever. Maybe it can be a partner with talkbass.

Now that I've been censored once, we can talk more about auditions. One recommendation I have is to NEVER accept favors for ANY audition from ANYONE because you will never be happy knowing you didn't really win. For example, one I know who got their post this way has only deteriorated as a person and isn't respected by anyone because EVERYONE knows how they got their job. Also, anyone in this situation will never help anyone else no matter what for fear of losing their gift. They will live a life of constant fear knowing they didn't earn that phat paycheck and fearing who knows their dirty secret. EVERYONE knows!!!

Nighty Night.
Prescottissimo...

Prescottissimo

First let me say that your profile is funny stuff. Anyway, I would have to disagree with your comments about accepting favors in some cases. For instance, "winning" an audition unfairly because your buddy is judging or someting like that is bogus but happens alot I am told. I got refered to my current pre-professional/semi-profesional union/non-union/volunteer orchestra beacuse my teacher was principal. I didin't audition per se, I just showed up to a rehearsal (when there were, for reasons unkown, no other bassists on hand) and I guess they liked my playing so they hired me. If I had had to audition I would have choked do to inexperience, but playing with this group which operates in a proffesional manner had been extremely valuable to my playing experience, and now I have the confidence to audition for other groups. Sometimes you need to get a foot in the back door to advance.

Jon

Well, I have witnessed firsthand the dangers of what shoes/feet in the back door can do to morale and a person's professional/personal development. For example, an insecure teacher may strike a deal with an insecure conductor if they both feel they have something the other wants: the conductor agrees to hire the teacher's favorite student who repeatedly fails to win and the teacher agrees to get the conductor hired at his orchestra since the conductor is having similar problems himself.

So, again, when taking paying/tenured auditions, I can only strongly recommend that people have faith in their abilities, practice hard, be prepared, do it the fair way for a lifetime of peace and good conscience. For the pre-professional stuff, it's still advisable but less disastrous without tenure. Think of those others who may have to suffer from a rigged audition - in some cases decades of aftermath.

Dudes......I don't see what the big deal is about Allegro and Presto or whatever his name is..........I think they're kind of funny! This is the most interesting stuff I've seen on these forums and people are talking about it at work, professionals I know have never been to the site before.

Some of the highest ranked professionals are pretty out there too so why get so ruffled over 'systematic degradation' and ISB meds. Besides, what if Presto really has ISB, could this be considered disability discrimination?

And then there were three...

Research proves interesting.....

Friends, I feel strongly that the subject of accepting favors when taking auditions is a grave matter when you remember that the tenure system in paid orchs makes things more difficult. Once others discover how so-and-so won, how do you go about discarding them???

Hey, I'm new here, this is my first post. This thread really interests me because I can see a lot of talk about what pieces you should play and how good you should be for entrance into an orchestra, but no one is really mentioning the fact that you can still 'win' an audition even if there are people of higher ability.

The principle thing that ALL auditions and interviews are designed to determine is your suitability for the position, and your playing ability is only half of what is 'required'. You should have a good attitude towards working in a group, you should be a 'nice person', you need to be very enthusiastic about playing in that orchestra and you should know a fair bit about the workings of orchestras, or even better the orchestra you're auditioning for, to show enthusiasim, motivation and a great attitude towards getting the part.

But all the same, if you've come here, read the lists of recommended study pieces and taken the time to learn them and learn them well, then you're already showing a good attitude and enthusiasm!

Cheers!

...you can still 'win' an audition even if there are people of higher ability.

The principle thing that ALL auditions and interviews are designed to determine is your suitability for the position, and your playing ability is only half of what is 'required'.

Well, [barring any "secret auditions"], your playing ability is ALL that is required to get to the hiring stage of an orchestral audition.

Once you get to the hiring stage ("Final Round"), usually the screen comes down and the committee can look for any weird things you might do... and can then acertain your degree of "enthusiasm", et cetera.

A Principal Bass Player has since admitted that sometimes it's not the "best" player, but the "right" player that wins the job.