I just wanna know what hybrid strings are. Can somebody tell me?

Jens

Strings good for both arco and pizz?

The only string I know of that is actually called "hybrid" is the D'Addario Helicore.

They offer three versions, one for jazz/pizz, one for classical/arco and a "hybrid".

The Helicores naturally have very long sustain, so for the hybrid and orchestral sets, they add some sort of damping material which reduces sustain. The hybrid just has less damping than the orchestral so the sustain is less than the jazz set but more than the orchestral set.

The replies above are both correct: on this board as well as in other bass related forums "hybrid string" is used for a string which is good for both arco (concert bass) and pizz (jazz bass). It could be also that the term as been introduced by D'Addario in their Helicore line of strings for double bass. My point here is that it is one thing to coin a term and another to apply that concept to string making. The Helicore "Hybrid" is actually a poor hybrid string which does not fulfill its programme because it is rather tough under the bow. Corelli tungsten, Thomastik Superflexible and Obligato are considered to be good hybrid strings.

i dont know much about strings but i got a question about hybrids:
since they are "good for both pizz AND arco" does that mean they are just as good for pizz as a "only good for pizz string" AND just as good for arco as an "only good for arco string",
or does it mean it can do both, but both are compromised.

my analogy would be a hybrid bike. a hybrid bike claims to be good for mountain biking and for roadbiking, but on the road they are slow becuse of the shock absorbers and hefty frame, and on the mountian they are bad becuses of the smaller tires and lighter frame.

thanks

i dont know much about strings but i got a question about hybrids:
since they are "good for both pizz AND arco" does that mean they are just as good for pizz as a "only good for pizz string" AND just as good for arco as an "only good for arco string",
or does it mean it can do both, but both are compromised.

If such a string would exists, everyone would play it!
You can't have a string with excellent performance on two styles with opposite needs:
arco: warm tone, short sustain, scratchless
pizz: clear and/or bright tone, clear articulation, long sustain
So, a string that is good at both is not ideal at both...
There's always a compromise.
Arco strings usually contain dampening stuff to reduce harshness and the metallic edge, and this reduces the sustain and the articulation is less clear.
Of course, if you like a gut-like pizz tone, as I do, orchestral strings may be a good choice, even for a pizz player!
It's just that the usual idea of a pizz string is one with bright tone and long sustain.
The Kolstein Varicor is a good hybrid string, along with the Corellis, Thomastik Super-Flexible and Pirastro Obligatos. Also Pirastro Permanents. (a bright arco string)

It's just that the usual idea of a pizz string is one with bright tone and long sustain.
... and that a long sustain string will tend to "fight" your bow.

I've used both the Helicore Hybrid and Obligato's. The Hybrid's were disappointing on my bass. The Obligato's have been far more satisfying. The rub is that what works well on my bass, may or may not work on another.

from what i am hearing on TB it seems like the obligatos are for me. i play in an orchestra and i do clasical solo work. but i also play in a jazz band. i dont want to compromise "bow-ablility", i had a set of pizz strings before and for fast string crossing passages in my solos and in the orchestra it was bad because the bow wouldnt grip the string, and i would often get an octave harmonic on the open e string.
as for tone, i would like a warm clean bowed sound, and for pizz i would like sort of a old school warm thump type sound.

so... it seems like (from a previos thread) that sound wise and "bow-abilty"-wise the obligatos fit me well. HOWEVER everyone that was playing obligatos loved them at first but it seemed like EVERYONE changed their mind after they had them on for a little while. people who atfirst said they were great, later said that after 2-3 monthes they were seperating on the bridge, and the tone just went strait down the crapper. almost 75% of the people that loved them in the begginging wouldnt recomend them at the end of the post.

there is a thread titled Obligato breakage? it seems like every one there thinks that obligatos only last about 8-10 months

can anyone prove or disprove this?

if this is true about the obligatos then is there another string that might fit what i want and last longer?

thanks!

I'm waiting for some feedback on the new Kolstein Heritage strings. Similar construction to Oblis. I think GOODBAIT was going to give them a try, if I remember correctly.

Has anyone tried Velvet Animas?

Apparently an amazing hybrid string (with an amazing price to match), but I've never seen the real thing.

Rick

I just had a chance to play Obligatos on a bass that is the same model as mine (midpriced carved chinese) and initially when they were tuned way low I like them, but once tuned to pitch the G and D string felt way to stiff for pizz. I have also played a set of Helicores and never cared for the A and E. For a Hybrid set I might recommend a Helicore G and D and a Obligato A and E. If anyone has tried this combo before I would appreciate the input otherwise I have the Helicores lying around I might buy the Obligatos and throw them on for a while to see what I get.

I just had a chance to play Obligatos on a bass that is the same model as mine (midpriced carved chinese) and initially when they were tuned way low I like them, but once tuned to pitch the G and D string felt way to stiff for pizz. I have also played a set of Helicores and never cared for the A and E. For a Hybrid set I might recommend a Helicore G and D and a Obligato A and E. If anyone has tried this combo before I would appreciate the input otherwise I have the Helicores lying around I might buy the Obligatos and throw them on for a while to see what I get.

A common complaint about Obligato is the E string. I think I'd be more inclined to do the opposite. That is, Helicore for the E and A and Obligato G and D. For me, the G and D are the Obligato highpoints. You get a 'twang-less' sound in the upper reg that you don't get with metal strings. I'm considering replacing the E with a Helicore Hybrid I have sitting in a drawer. I know that Chris F. has been using Obligatos in conjunction with a Spiro E of late and I think he's been pretty happy with the sound.

A very good steel hybrid string, IMO, is Pirastro's Permanent.
I just rediscovered them on my modified EUB, because I need a clearer sound. (the new bridge/pickup system has a darker output)
These strings have good definition, have a clear tone, but still a good fundamental, so the tone is large, strong and full.
The E is rattling on my fingerboard though, so I use a Chromcor E instead.
I know a few members here have switched to them on my recommendation and they were happy with the result!

I just took a set of obligatos off my bass and replaced them with superflexibles. the obligatos are wonderful strings, but i got rid of them because i found them to be too soft under my fingers for pizz, which resulted in a melow tone (refrence to duke unintentional!) without enough attack. Odd (atleast to me) that you found them to be stiff. Their arco response is gorgeous though, they had no scratchiness on my bass whatsoever. I'm giving them to my friend who has been an electric player for years, but recently bought his first upright because of their softness, I figure they'll help him along without too much pain. I love the superflexibles though...they are a little darker and scratchier on my bass, which is what I was looking for.

KWD and I are both Christopher hybrid owners and fans but I have to disagree with him on this one. The Helicore Hybrid A and E sounded horrible on my bass, especially the A. The D and G were better but no match for the Obligatos in any regard.

The Obligato E is not sloppy by any means but does have a slightly slower response than the A and above. It has a nice growl down low without the metalic whine of the helicores. It sounds like a real resonant double bass instead of a fretless electic.

I will have to agree that the Obligatos bow nicely and to their credit I have only played on them right after they were installed and tuned up to pitch, but I did find that the D on both basses seemed very stiff to me. But I will have time to play on that one a little and see if it frees up.

Has anyone tried Velvet Animas?

Apparently an amazing hybrid string (with an amazing price to match), but I've never seen the real thing.

Rick

I haven't tried them, but my teacher has and he said they were terrible for arco. I think they're roundwound.

I haven't tried them, but my teacher has and he said they were terrible for arco. I think they're roundwound.

No and no. They are good for arco, and are most certainly not roundwound.

No and no. They are good for arco, and are most certainly not roundwound.

Lemur's description says, "All strings are metal-wound - the precision-finished round wire winding results in a..." That, to me, indicates roundwoundness, but I haven't seen them.

KWD and I are both Christopher hybrid owners and fans but I have to disagree with him on this one. The Helicore Hybrid A and E sounded horrible on my bass, especially the A. The D and G were better but no match for the Obligatos in any regard.

The Obligato E is not sloppy by any means but does have a slightly slower response than the A and above. It has a nice growl down low without the metalic whine of the helicores. It sounds like a real resonant double bass instead of a fretless electic.

The Helicore hybrid E and A sounded sub-optimal on my bass too. I never got used to the forward, character bereft sound of them but some like the power afforded by having metal on the E and A. It seemed counter intuitive to prefer a Helicore G and D over Obligato. That's what I was getting at. I feel settled with Obligatos. For the first time since I've owned the instrument I don't have a need to acquire a new set of strings every week. And, I've had the 3rd person validation of my teacher on these (Obligatos). With a jazz seminar coming up, I've been tempted to put the E Heli on just for punch, but I've since decided against it.

I don't ever bow. Animas are not round wound and have even tension for all strings which i find is ideal for pizz. they are the best strings i have ever played on (someone else's bass) the price however is ridiculous. long sustain and low tension with seemingly no loss of sound. does anyone know of a similar cheaper alternative?.
seb.
you never step in the same river twice.

You can get low tension and long sustain with some steel solo strings tuned down to orchestra pitch, but you'll get less volume too.
Many players here on Talkbass have write good reviews on solo Obligatos.

Solo Obligatos:D

I just tried the new Kolstein (Heritage) strings last weekend and I was very impressed. I tried a brand new set on a Czech bass and thought really loved the bow response. They were a little twangy, but I think that would subside after a few days of playing.

I definitely plan on trying a pair on my bass. My only other hybrid experience has been with Corellis and Helicores. I prefer the Correlli strings to the Helicores, but I'm definitely going to do a long term test with the Kolsteins.

In another stop on the never-ending quest to find strings that work well for both pizz and arco, I replaced my Spirocores (med gauge) with D’addario Helicore Hybrids (med gage). Now, keep in mind, I absolutely loved the sound of the Spirocores for pizz and was reluctant to change. But, even though I stuck it out for over a year (I was advised to “give them time to settle in”) I just grew tired of their scratchy, hard to start bow response. I know that both Christian McBride (light gauge) and John Patitucci (heavy gauge) use these strings and both of their instruments sound great. So, I thought, they should be good enough for me.

When I strung them up for the first time, I found the D string to be twangy and thin. I returned it for a replacement (thanks) and that problem was solved. I also noticed right away the G and D were much lighter in gauge and more flexible than the A and E with the E very heavy and stiff. This proved to present a modest challenge as I started to play.

Since I was after a better arco sound, the first thing I did was put them to the bowing test. The strings played very smoothly and sounded great. Good sonority, easy to start, nice warm tone. I was definitely pleased with the arco sound.

When I started to play pizz, I felt the difference between the G/D and A/E right away and it took some time to get used to the differences in response (I never fully got used to the stiffness of the E). The next thing I noticed was that all of the strings required more pressure by my left hand to get good clear pitches. After a couple of days of getting used to the extra pressure, that was behind me. Also, the sonority of the Helicores was much less than the Spirocores. Next, I noticed that my right hand needed adjustment. A very definite, strong hand was required to get that “pop” of an attack and a good full sound. Anything less sounded too “thuddy” (more like wood on wood) with not enough fundamental pitch sound. This took some getting used to but that is now mostly behind me too. I continued, however, to have trouble with the E string. I couldn’t get as full of a sound as I wanted unless I really dug in. Often, to get that big sound on the E string, I was required my to put so much meat into the string that my finger often hung up on the string, causing me to lag the time. I worked on this for some time without success. I finally gave up. I replace the E string with the Spirocore E and bingo! There was the sound I wanted and the response I needed. Arco, the Spirocore E works well too as the little bit of scratchiness is perfect to help those low notes cut through. Response-wise on pizz, the Helicore E was very thick and heavy while the Spirocore E has a feel closer to the Helicore A and therefore across all four strings, there is more uniformity.

Finally, I think there has been some settling in of the strings themselves while I was making all of these other discoveries and adjustments. The strings seem to have gotten much more flexible overall as time has passed and they have been played more.

In the end, after replacing the E string, adjusting my technique to meet the physics of the strings, and a breaking in of the strings themselves, the strings have the sound I want in both pizz and arco and will work well for me in my playing. It took about 3-4 months to come to this conclusion but now I get a very nice arco sound and a very nice pizz sound. By all accounts from those that have heard my bass, the bass is sounding very good indeed.

Peace

I have never been impressed with the Helicore line of bass strings. They are decent pizzicato strings, but they do lack projection, and they aren't very good for arco. Pirastro Obligatos are a big improvement over the Helicores. Eudoxas are an improvement on the Obligato, but they also cost close to 3 times as much. I am very interested in trying the new Compas 180's. I think they might be one of the better all around strings.