Took an orchestra audition recently and felt well-prepared on the material, but at the crucial moment I could NOT get in control of my nerves. Kept thinking I would fall into a groove, but I just could not. My playing sounded as jittery as I felt. If it was a speed-metal orchestra I may have won. I guess I need to learn to channel that "fight-or-flight" adrenaline rush into more fight and less flight. Maybe if I lose another one or two, I will get pissed off enough and that will work.

I tried preparing by visualizing walking into the hall, sitting down, starting my first piece...worked on this for several weeks beforehand and tried to immunize myself to the adrenaline. It just didn't work.

Well it was the first orch. audition I took in about 20 years. Lots of gigs in between, but no full-time orchestra and no behind-the-screen auditions.

The night before, I dreamed there were 120 bassists auditioning for the post, and the only bow I had with me was a French bow (which I don't play) with the hair falling out, and the end of my fingerboard was warping upward into the strings, and then my 'A' string broke. Needless to say I took every spare string I had to the real audition...and the only spare I don't have is an 'A' so I figured I would use a 'D' if I had to.

Nothing went wrong except I played like I was on 13 cups of coffee and an 8-day meth binge. I understand auditioning is a skill and that I will likely take several before winning a position. Just wish I could work out that little nerves detail in a more efficient way. It's probably a common concern, that the audition where you feel the most confident will be the job you're least interested in winning. Put another way, if you attempt to take an audition just to add to your preparedness, all of a sudden you find yourself moving the family someplace you never planned to live.

Here (http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?t=79582) is an old thread which is semi-on-topic. It kinda got ravaged at one point, so it's "not all there," but you get the gist.

The material on Hal Galper's site (www.HalGalper.com) was extremely helpful to me when I had a nasty and unexpected bout of inability to handle energy in performance. While it does not address the orchestra audition process directly I suspect it will still be worth you time.

Now start dreaming about doing so well that the conductor offers you HIS job!

I used to have huge problems with nervousness too. My teacher told me it was in direct relation to how well prepared you were. He said you would play better if he could get you up at three o'clock in the morning and you could run through everything. Honestly, at first I didn't believe him because your playing is never perfect, that's just something you have to accept with music, so I thought since it would never be perfect I would never be comfortable and confident in my playing, but I practiced, and I bought a book called Audition Success by Don Greene which taught me some breathing techniques. I got to my audition, and I was more nervous standing outside the room, but once I started playing, everything was just boom there. It wasn't perfect, but like I said it never will be, and the conductor told me, "See you at the first rehearsal," so I guess it went well. This audition was he best I had ever had because I got my nerves under control with deep breathing and preparation (especially with a metronome so my tempo was consistent and I couldn't rush off like wildfire.)

Thanks Sam and Lauren! Read the Galper article on stage fright and identified several mistakes I made. #1) Repeating to myself, I need this job, I need this job....

Big difference between band auditions, where you sit in with the band for a few songs or a night, or even play through several songs with the bandleader, and orchestra auditions, where you have just minutes, solo, to sell yourself. I've passed a lot of band auditions even if i was nervous when I walked in. After a song or two I could get a feel for what's happening and settle down. But with the behind-the-screen setup there is just no time for that and it's Sink Or Swim. Just something to get used to.

You're right about the preparedness too. Thanks again for the input!

Flame

Did you go to music school? One of things school is supposed to do is make you so used to playing solo in front of people (classes, juries, etc) that you don't freak at an audition. I just enrolled at our local JC which happens to have a superb music program and at $26 a unit, can't beat the price. One of the first things we are doing in applied music class is playing, the challenging "scale-of-your-choice" in front of the other class members just to learn how to deal with it. I'm excited.

Jon

Hey Blue

Judging by the timing and your location, I think I was at the same audition. Like you I hadn't done a classical audition in a long time (over 30 years)
I didn't know it was possible to go blind, have your mind go completely blank and feel like someone else's hands were attached to your arms all at the same time, but the big mystery was how my tone went from nice and big in the warm up room to sounding like an old am radio on stage! I've played many large venues in the past (mostly on slab) and never experienced this amount of nervousness.
Thanks for brining up the subject, and thanks to Sam, Lauren and J for the help.
Bobby

I have no magic formulas. I get nervous simply because I care about doing a good job!

But one thing I can offer is recording yourself. I'm usually my own worst critic, so a lot of my confidence in playing for others comes from being happy with myself and what I'm doing. Of course, there's always something to learn from someone else's playing and suggestions, but it doesn't make me anywhere near as nervous as the expectations I hold myself to. When the playback makes me feel good, then I am much more interested in sharing it under any conditions.

Hope this helps, and best of luck with your auditions!

Hey Bobby! Yeah we were at the same place - sometime when you have a minute at Dave's or whatever, I wanna check out that Wan-Bernadel! BTW you have done an AWESOME amount of work in the amount of time you have been back to upright bass! I have been back at it for 2 years after 12 years off, and feel like the first 1 3/4 years was wasted wrestling with a crappy bass (I rented one for a few months too, then bought a student bass and finally got a pretty good one in June.)

And in reply to Johnny, you are so right about recording. I record into the computer which just seems easiest these days. With each playback I just sit there going, well that sux, well that sux, let's do another one...eventually before this audition it just was not getting appreciably better. When it starts sounding good I agree, I want to save that take and let someone else hear it. Maybe that's a sign the material is 'ready' (been in the oven just long enough).

Are you both going to the symposium in Waco in November?

I hope to be there, if other commitments don't get in the way. :hyper:

Woody's Theme: ( a free pizza to whoever gets that)
When I find it, I'll post a link that discusses how to get better results with calm, logical thinking, rather than the physical and emotional devices which ultimately compund the problem. Those who know me know I'm in the Alexander Technique mode with that.
Later.

sometime when you have a minute at Dave's or whatever, I wanna check out that Wan-Bernadel


Are you both going to the symposium in Waco in November?


Any time, I love to hear other people play it, plus (now that I know who I'm talking to) you have such a wonderful warm tone and vibrato I really would like to hear it on mine.

Come hell or high water! When will we ever get to see 2 of the greatest at one time again? Do you have any details on the symposium?

Do people still admit to using 10mg of Inderal? You still have to do the work, but if you really need a gig, why not meet an artificial situation with artificial means?

On the holisitc side, there is good wisdom in "The Mental ABCs of Pitching" by H.A. Dorfman. I was amazed at how much applied to our craft.

Good luck. BTW, what led you back to the orchestra audition world after such a layoff?

A friend in a larger city symphony told me "we all use 10 mg of Inderal for auditions". I'm like, you could have told me this BEFORE! Not that it would've made a difference other than a few less white hairs maybe.

I'll have to check out that Dorfman book. Thanks.

Why I'm back in the orchestra world...I always had a small regret in the back of my mind for letting DB fade out of my life as I got more and more involved with slab and rock bands in the early 70's. Turning 50 will tend to make you take an introspective look at life and a few months after I hit 50, that small regret turned into a rather large itch so on Jan 2nd I scratched it and rented a bass and bought a couple of Simandle books and it was off to the races. Now I'm just having more fun than the law allows!

Sounds like you chose a healthy mid life thing! We can't get little red convertibles because our mistresses won't fit. I think a recent union paper advertised an opening in the Austin S.O. Good luck if you take it. Heard some fine bands there on my last visit in October '02.

A friend in a larger city symphony told me "we all use 10 mg of Inderal for auditions".
That is a total Bull$hit approach to take.
Go to
www.learningmethods.com/
Scroll down to on-line articles.
Scroll down to Working With A Violinist.

There are other articles that relate to this.

Don how many salaried symphony gigs have you auditioned for, and how many have you won?

This is similar to a college kid with his heart set on the NFL who tries a little juice, except the effect is benign and much shorter.

Getting match-tough through many podunk auditions helps, but when the chips are down for a living wage gig, a little extra helps.

Auditioning is nothing like performing.

Wow. I was unaware that people use drugs to win auditions. It's sad how drug abuse has become a part of any skilled profession. My chances at winning an audition, it seems, just got a lot lower.

Use and abuse are different things. I've heard that neurosurgeons routinely take a dose of Inderal before performing brain surgery. Would you want shaky hands with a scalpel inside your head?

I just read the learning methods article which Don H linked. It is very good. Much similar ground is covered by the sports psychologists in the inner game books and my favorite listed earlier. To paraphrase that one--the most important phrase you play is the next one. In other words, concentrate on your next move. What is done, is done. Concentrate on proper execution. The results (the judges' opinions) are beyond your control. Please note that what I just said is not quite the same concept articulated in the Learning Methods article. I believe both are valid, and each player needs to use them in their own workable combination.

Wow. I was unaware that people use drugs to win auditions. It's sad how drug abuse has become a part of any skilled profession. My chances at winning an audition, it seems, just got a lot lower.
Three incorrect statements.

I've heard that neurosurgeons routinely take a dose of Inderal before performing brain surgery. Would you want shaky hands with a scalpel inside your head?
Where do you get this stuff?
Since when is it a given that the neurosurgeon who doesn't use a drug will necessarily have shaky hands?

Auditioning is nothing like performing.[/QUOTE]

I heartily agree.

I think saying guys in PROFESSIONAL symphony orchestras in major metropolitan areas are using a "bull$hit" approach is like a double A ball manager saying Joe Torre is managing the Yankees all wrong.

I don't need a new learnig method to get into a volunteer orchestra, I'm already in one.
If you had a headache before an audition, most people would take aspirin or Tylenol or Advil. If you know your adrenal gland is going to go crazy and send shocks through your body before an audition, why wouldn't you take Inderal. That isn't drug abuse, it's a beta blocker.

I read Don's article and it sounds like a good approach to learning, but this whole thing just confirms what I already know...I need to spend more time reading notes instead of reading the words of self-proclaimed gurus.

Interesting. Would I then be naive to request a surgeon with the confidence to do the job rather than one who admitted the need for a fix before going in?

Found this tonight. I left out the specifics of the method. To read the full text, follow the link and type "propranolol AND performance AND anxiety [all fields]" into the search field. You will find this halfway down the page of results.

Trans Am Ophthalmol Soc. 1998;96:283-91; discussion 291-4. Related Articles, Links

The effect of propranolol versus placebo on resident surgical performance.

Elman MJ, Sugar J, Fiscella R, Deutsch TA, Noth J, Nyberg M, Packo K, Anderson RJ.

Department of Ophthalmology, University of Illinois Eye and Ear Infirmary, USA.

PURPOSE: To determine whether propranolol can decrease surgical tremor and anxiety in residents performing ocular microsurgery without impairing patient or physician safety.

CONCLUSIONS: Propranolol, 40 mg, administered 1 hour prior to surgery, significantly decreases tremor and anxiety in the surgeon without untoward effects to the surgeon and the patient. However, it is unknown whether decreased tremor and anxiety improved surgical outcome.

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi

Propranolol is the generic term for Inderal. To me the message is beta blockers can help if you have your skills together.

Nice thread, I have tried beta blockers. Once. I was able to purchase them otc in spain for about 10 bucks-OK twelve years ago. I was on the path of denial and a quick fix.I took an audition in Chicago when I did them. 10mg. I played gwell I felt, hey they were workin! BUT when the committee asked me to play # 9 louder it all fell apart. No could do my friends. Total lameness. OK that's my experience. I will never do them again and feel they are unnecessary for the gig or audition. I hear both sides of this and agree with both. Why not do like all the rest? Why not take drugs ,prescribed or not to avoid and mask symptoms which arise in artificial circumstances? I would also love to come to an audition with a marshal amp hooked up to my axe so as I have the big sound! What is the difference?
I started reading everything I could about this, Inner games, sports psych-I am now a feldenkrais Teacher as a result. Anyway ,Guru or not if I could find a way to do something with out drugs which before I had to then I'm all for it.
You can't tell me that auditions are so artificial, yeah but on the performers side! What don't believe me? well you can at least stop, ask to play something over take some time. Imagine the stress of a bassist waiting all first and second mvt mahler 1 at a concert on TV live broadcast from vienna is going to feel more comfortable playing the solo then or from his/her audition. Come on.
I now don't let this stress control me. It comes from me to begin with . Wake up fellows. The same person who justifies substance use may also use it as a crutch in many other instances. especially when the outcome had such a good response as winning an audition. This is called conditioned learning. perscription or not.

An approach I've used since day one is similar to sports. I play soccer at a very high mens level, nerves come with the territory. Thus, I say play the best to your abilities and be happy with the performance regardless the outcome. That being said I've successfully auditioned and played soccer games where I know I could of played much better.

Just don't let one bad audition/try-out take the best of you! I've auditioned for bass 3 times out of 4 and did successfully. For soccer I've tryed out for 6 different top premier teams and made it on one this year alone!

Work hard and good things will develop!

Hey Johnny L - got my new copy of Inner Game of Tennis. THANKS for the eye opener! Last time I read it I was 15 so now am reading with all new eyes. Back then none of us had personal computers either and there are so many anologies to Self 2 performing as it is programmed...now it all makes more sense.

If I had to make a yes-or-no decision on the Indoral (that's a new one on me) I think I would take it, doing a trial dose a few days before the big event. Once before I did a great deal of mental preparation for a similarly stressful event, and went into it totally confident and believing I was in total control. The circumstances exceeded my thresholds and I was just unable to remain calm. Since having that experience where the wheels just came off, it most likely undermined my confidence in the similar audition situation. I will do all I can to overcome that, but who knows where the last grain of it is buried and when it's going to surface. Probably not while I'm sitting at the breakfast table leafing though the paper! ;)

I agree it is a shame to introduce a drug that alters the playing field. Certainly nothing should substitute for proper preparation. Anyone going into an audition knows he can do the job once the post is won. The audition itself is a world apart from the performing experience, and I know it's one to be mastered...I'm willing to undertake that for the long haul, but I'd still try the Indoral, if only once.

Like Bobby I quit playing DB for a number of years and defected to rock&roll. I had great teachers on DB up through college, passed a bunch of academic and semi-pro auditions and thought I was invincible. Found out this attitude does not make friends or get gigs. Once out of school I had a losing streak of auditions and bad DB gigs and was at the same time offered a full calendar of (mediocre, but paying)rock gigs, and learned a lot. I'm sure Bobby will concur, rockers are hard workers and have a high tolerance for adverse performing conditions among other things (long hours, warm beer and potential electrocution for starters). A whole nother skill set.

Now at 40 it's time to "get a haircut and a real job." It's been a ton of fun and I'll always love it, but it would be nice to have a salary (for the first time EVER). Had the black Porsche instead of the red convertible, but now have a little boy and that's a (very positive) paradigm shift. I finally have the focus to develop the skill the 13 years of music school set me up for.

Good luck, dude. Seeing who you've studied with, you know that Inderal isn't a substitute for preparation--it merely removes an impediment. I tried it reluctantly after many auditions where I had the equivalent of a cannonball in an olympic diving event. Two of my three uses were successful. The other time I was so relaxed that I got to the hall to find out my bow was still in the motel room on the other side of Columbus. No problem, went and got it, came back and played accurately, but nothing special. Didn't advance. Ironically six months earlier, I made the finals for their section job using nothing. That was when they hired Al Laszlo, I believe. Bottom line is the stuff isn't a magic bullet, but it has its place. Again, best wishes in your endeavor.

Of course drug is use is drug use . Crutch be it legal or not. I am not judging so much as just stating facts. I was once told a story of Francois rabbath. He was taking a nap the day he was to give a recital in paris. He awoke and exclaimed to paul E. Oh my god ( maybe mon dieu, I'm not sure) I am not nervous, I am completely calm , what am I gong to do ? I have a concert soon and I am not excited !!! So they proceded to run out and find him lots of coffee..To get pumped up. That is what HE needed to do the job.
So I suggest why not drnk lots of coffee and prctice under those conditions? Why mask ,( they aren't removed) functions of the human body that are desgned to help us in utter danger. They can be harnessed with a minimum of effort.
I started this trail long ago with the idea that nerves =economic disaster=shame and guilt. I came from a school where it was the rule not the exception that one got a good gig upon graduating. How is that for pressure.
Ok today I have a good gig BUT I still want to audition for other jobs. The nerves don't go away, thay change.
Nerves are apart of me and my makeup. I now would never give them up. The body uses more energy dealing with washing drugs out of the body then just leting go.
Chosing the pill is just a shortcut which one must admit. Why do it in the first place. Why choose a career which causes nerves constantly if you can't deal with them without turning to artificial means.? There is a whole world out there of cheaper and better ways to deal with this. You already know..it is inside you. Go for that. Harness your power...don't suffer from it..
and btw, just reading the Inner Game doesn't mean squat, you have to live it in every fiber of your soul.

Of course I forgot. two great starts, "Audition Success" and "Fight your fear and win" both by Don Greene, former trainer of the US diving team and Green Beret and swat team trainer..Good readin for nerves.
And I am tired of anaogies refering musicians nerves to the likes of a brain surgeons skills. Please refrain from such ridiculous justifications. We don't come close to being on the same page . Bassists play the bass, they don't save lives, as much as I would like to think we were as important.

That's kinda funny. I know a brain surgeon, supposedly one of the best in the biz, who dabbles in guitar playing for fun; he has some nice archtops. He can often be seen at our gigs, professing awe and admiration for what our guitar whiz bandleader pulls off night after night.

By the same token, I get around the bass alright, but I couldn't do the waiter's job if I had a gun to my head.

...just reading the Inner Game doesn't mean squat, you have to live it in every fiber of your soul.

I agree completely with your post, and I don't even play in an orchestra. Same clearly goes with music - what good is reading it without playing it?

And your illustration of the bassist playing the Mahler solo on live television is an excellent example of what the audition process is, in part, designed to reveal.

How about working alcoholics, then? (for half price, maybe? LOL)

I've got to agree with Don on this. If you need to use drugs to get the gig, then maybe it is not the gig for you. When asked what advice he would give to aspiring bassists, the fellow who just won Louisville said something to the effect of "First decide you are going to be a first rate bass player, then follow through." It's the follow through part that I think you would be cutting short with the drugs. If you can't go in and nail these excerpts and solos under extreme preasure in the audition, then what makes you think you will nail them when it's your first year and you are scared about tenure or the millions of other things that will have your attention during concerts and rehearsals.

Case in point, I know a non bass playing girl who will remain nameless that admitted to using beta blockers to win her audition. I played with her orchestra the same week that she told me this and she bombed harcore. BOTH NIGHTS! Not even close.

It's different when you have the gig.

Marcus, will you ask your brain surgeon friend for his opinion?

I'm not trying to convince anyone to use beta blockers, and will say no more about them.

It's different when you have the gig.

Marcus, will you ask your brain surgeon friend for his opinion?

I'm not trying to convince anyone to use beta blockers, and will say no more about them.
Sure, good idea.

I've got to agree with Don on this.
You can't agree with me until I know where I am.
The Alexander teacher in me is mostly in line with G-force, who is a Feldenkrais teacher. Generally, we prefer a holistic, natural response to unnerving stimuli. But since this started, I've been trying to reconcile the following:
1] A very close friend, principal in one of the world's most well known orchestras, conservative, cautious, devout, smart, told me: "Inderal has been indispensable to me in my career. I would say it is used by 90 percent of musicians for key events."
But then he said: "I am not happy that I turned to it 25 years ago, but am also not ashamed of it. I worry about kids overusing it, and without doctor's supervision," and "in the middle of my two dozen auditions, I combined deep relaxation (read, meditative) techniques and a serious running regime with the Inderal. They were all indispensable. I am sure that, combined with my current excercise regime (35-40 miles of running a week), the meditative techniques would help reduce but not elimate the beta blocker dosage. There is definitely a psychological dependancy that developes, which is what I am most unhappy about with beta blockers.
Everying helps- I'll bet that Alexander has similar effects to the meditative techniques."
2] Yet, his closest friend in another world-reknowned orchestra in which they both played said:
"I heard a similar remark from a brass player. The remark actually had to do with playing certain solos and "being on the spot," night after night! I've heard from some people that it is true and from others that it is a bunch of junk."
3] This, from my teacher, internationally known, a faculty member at Manhattan School of Music (She taught John Feeney, who tied Edgar Meyer at an ISB competition):
"That whole concept is absolutely unacceptable and makes me furious each time I hear about it. I have a friend - a brass player - who started out by using Inderal before auditions, then before important concerts, then before all concerts, then before important rehearsals, etc., until he felt he had to rely on it anytime he wanted to sound good. One day, before a concert, he forgot to bring it and had to go on without it. He managed to play okay, but resolved to wean himself off it, and, 15 years later, still plays drug-free. Using Inderal is a dangerous practice and can start the player on a slippery slope from which it's often difficult to return."
4] The PubMed report, quoted above, said that it decreased tremor and anxiety in ocular microsurgery residents . To me, the key word is "residents." These poor bastards are typically sleep-deprived and worked to death by design. I don't think it is a normal environment for physicians, nor is it representative of the musician's environment.
5] In another PubMed report, 29 musicians were relieved of physical impediments by Inderal, and their playing was judged to have improved.
6] And another PubMed report showed Inderal not any better than a placebo in reducing experimentally induced stress.
7] Another survey concluded inderal of no value in reducing psychological aspects of stress, only the physical.
8] Another survey had two of the best known flutists in London with diametrically opposite views on use Inderal.
9] Inderal is not entirely benign. The list of possible negative side effects is awful.

In short, available research is not definitive, but on all sides of this issue.

Pedro DeAlcantara, an esteemed cellist and world-reknowned teacher of the Alexander Technique, has written at length on stage fright. Too much to summarize here. He is basically against Inderal as a response to stress, but also reasonable and realistic, saying:
"I believe that the use of beta-blockers may be justified for two purposes (but never positively recommended): to combat crippling stage fright before you have acquired sufficient knowledge of the Alexander Technique, and to break the vicious cycle of failure. If you do decide to take beta-blockers...then make the best of it and bring an awareness of your use (an Alexander-specific technical term, meaning how you behave mentally and physically) to your performance, so that youbegin to associate good (Alexandrian) use and success. Eventually good use itself becomes the source of success, not one of its characteristics"...."A greater fool is he who takes drugs without the supervision of an able and sympathetic doctor."

I understand the desire or even need for Inderal, but my personal experience with the Alexander Technique convinced me there are other, better ways to learn to respond to stimuli.

I was asked how many salaried symphony jobs I had auditioned for, and how many I had won. I suppose that meant I'm not qualified to post on this. That's something like saying I have no right to an opinion on the Iraq war because I've never been president.

And the "self-proclaimed guru" description of David Gorman would have been a gratuitous slur, but for the ignorance of who David Gorman in fact is.

"I've heard from some people that it is true [that Inderal works] and from others that it is a bunch of junk."

Here Don was quoting someone else. Maybe just because of varying body chemistry.

And here, quoting Pedro DeAlcantra:

"I believe that the use of beta-blockers may be justified for two purposes (but never positively recommended): to combat crippling stage fright before you have acquired sufficient knowledge of the Alexander Technique, and to break the vicious cycle of failure. "

That was me. I thought I was OK (although I can't disagree with an above post that the degree of stage fright is inversely proportional to one's confidence in one's preparation) - not like I was going to SPANK the committee, just OK. Standing outside the stage door I felt like I could make an honest presentation. The stage fright hit like a bolt from the blue.

"I understand the desire or even need for Inderal, but my personal experience with the Alexander Technique convinced me there are other, better ways to learn to respond to stimuli. "

Don, if you can arrange to give a lecture at ISB (if there's not already similar programming in place) I'll be in the front row! It would be just great to hear about the Alexander Technique from a bassist. I've heard of it but have no idea what it is. Happy to read about it and so on, but it would be even better to hear about it in real time in a discussion with other musicians.

"I was asked how many salaried symphony jobs I had auditioned for, and how many I had won. I suppose that meant I'm not qualified to post on this. That's something like saying I have no right to an opinion on the Iraq war because I've never been president.

This thread has brought out a lot of points relating to conquering our weaknesses as we discover them (the audition being the culmination of one's comprehensive preparation). Well that's really all you can do anyway. We're all working on all our stuff, all the time, and maybe working on aspects of ourselves that will ultimately make us better musicians but at the moment aren't winning any jobs.

Someone also said above, why be in a profession if the stress is unbearable? Just speaking for myself it's only what comes as an "oh ****, I shoulda known better!" surprise that makes me feel like a total berk. Like showing up for a first concert wearing plaid Bermuda shorts. The stress, and the failures, go with the territory.

Come to think of it there are some people who are FANTASTIC musicians, brilliant ears, superb memory, but that's all they can do. They can pass auditions, win scholarships, do great recordings...but they literally need a life coach to get through things like grocery shopping. (That's the road manager's job anyway!) I'm not making a sour-grapes statement that an audition winner has to be some kind of a savant, I'm just saying that most of us are equipped to handle a very wide variety of things and performance stress is a specialized situation requiring specialized skill development. Patience and time, bummer when something wacky happens, do not pass Go, do not collect $200.

And the "self-proclaimed guru" description of David Gorman would have been a gratuitous slur, but for the ignorance of who David Gorman in fact is.

You are correct. I don't know who David Gorman is. My apologies for overeacting. Calling a successful person's approach "bull$hit" pushed one of my buttons. I don't take or advocate drugs. (I don't even drink) I just think if someone has achieved a goal I am striving for, then their "approach" bears examination. It doesn't mean I will use that approach. In fact, the Learning Method or the Alexander Technique ( another subject I know nothing about) would seem to have far reaching applications other than my little "audition stage fright" problem.
Your post is a nice sumation of the points in this thread, and it certainly gives me a lot more to think about than potentially popping a pill next time.
Thanks

[5]You are correct, sir. [4]I don't know who David Gorman is. [1]My apologies for overeacting. Calling a successful person's approach "bull$hit" pushed one of my buttons. I don't take or advocate drugs. (I don't even drink) I just think if someone has achieved a goal I am striving for, then their "approach" bears examination. It doesn't mean I will use that approach. [2]In fact, the Learning Method or the Alexander Technique ( another subject I know nothing about) would seem to have far reaching applications other than my little "audition stage fright" problem.
[3]Your post is a nice sumation of the points in this thread, and it certainly gives me a lot more to think about than potentially popping a pill next time.
Thanks
And I thank you for this post. You and I agree on much.
[1]And I overreacted to the seeming all-inclusiveness of your friend's statement "we all ...etc." and what I read as the implied assertion that the answer to every problem is a pill, and we all do it. Sorry.
[2]The Alexander Technique altered the course of my life, irrevocably, and positively, for me and everyone around me, to the degree that at age 65, I returned to school to be certified as a teacher, so that I might spend the rest of my life bringing natural wellness to people.
[3]Thanks. You'll note that in the process of learning more about it, I had to get off my hard line. Thinking more when confronted with a stimulus, as you intend to do, is praiseworthy and central to the thinking of Gorman and Alexander.
[4]Gorman was one of the brightest Alexander teachers ever, who went "off the reservation" a few years ago. I read an essay of his that seemed to fit a very painful problem. I contacted him. He didn't know me from Adam, but he got back to me right away and saw me through it, gratis.
[5]Nobody, but nobody, calls me "sir". I demand a retraction.

[5]Nobody, but nobody, calls me "sir". I demand a retraction.

I hereby retract the "sir" from my last post! :D
But it was meant as a term of politeness and respect, not a deferment to age.

I'm the same way..."Sir?, my Dad is Sir!"
It really bugs me when I'm in a music store and some little neophyte superstar less than half my age walks in front of me and says "excuse me sir". I keep thinking when I was his age there weren't any "old" people in these stores except the owner and he was way up there, probably 40 at least!

This is the first time I have visited this thread since the initial posting and am amazed. I guess it demonstrates what a sheltered life I have led but I had no idea folks resorted to drugs to enhance their performance (okay, Jimi Hendrix et. al. aside).

All the scandals involving performance enhancers has really given me a jaded outlook on sports and now music? Again, I guess I have been living in Mayfield next door to the Cleavers. Has cheating become so ingrained that we now feel it is justified just to compete? As others have said, doesn't this just demean the user or his/her accomplishments?
Instead of asking is it live or memorex do we now ask is it him or the dope?

Gee whiz Wally.

drugs are bad, m'kay?

M...Kay!

Hey doing some more reading and thinking about it and practicing, I feel a lot better about the whole audition phase (that this will keep coming up repeatedly until a post is won). The Audition Success book clears up a lot of questions and the procedures given are specific. He points out how common the performance-anxiety problem is and gives a whole arsenal of ways to deal with it - Inderal wasn't one of them! I played my first paying gig when I was 12 and have lived for being on stage ever since (which just makes me 'up' but not nervous), but I never realized that giving time and attention to specifically dealing with nervousness was part of a musician's skillset. I just figured most are born confident, or they don't take auditions.

The older I get the less I think I know!

I'm not afraid to be my own guinea pig for psychoactive substances (I may be the only person you know who once "OD'd" on 'shrooms when, on first encounter with them, I consumed a portion set aside for 4 people, convinced they didn't do anything (WRONG-O!!) - okay, that was a long time ago) but with so many core strategies available, maybe the Inderal is best relegated to events like meetings with the IRS.

Working on fixing the problem instead of masking it, I'm realizing that it is possible to hunt down all vestiges of nervous problems over time and get them under control. Since being thoroughly competent on the excerpts long before an audition seems to be the major component, just practicing and developing should solve most of the problem. Just because so much of the material is so tough, it's hard to imagine being beyond struggling with it.

I have enjoyed this discussion and wanted to post this. Please do not construe this as an endorsement of any side of the issue. I am just posting this for discussion's sake:

http://www.andante.com/article/article.cfm?id=24603