Say you're jamming and the drummer slows down a bit during an especially long bit (such as a guitar solo). Should you, as a bassist and contributing member of the rhythm section, A) slow down to make sure you stay tight with the drummer, or B) keep playing at the tempo and look at the drummer to get him back up to speed?

I voted stay with him, usually that sounds best. But it depends on the situation and on the drummer. If he can catch up, then do it the other way.

P.S.: Wow, a poll? Haven't seen one of these in a while. Where's the "Throw carrots at him" option?

Stick with him , unless you can make some sort of motion to him to pick it up.

I am a drummer, and I said to keep going and signal the drummer that he is" leaning back". The drummer and bass player must have a good line of communication in order to do this. Looks, signals, whatever, but you should always have this worked out. What our main bass player does if he can't hear me or thinks we are speeding up or whatever is he looks at the kick drum and then looks up at me. I will know immediately if we are having a problem.

You can slow down and stay locked in but it creates other problems especially for the vocals.

This does happen occasionaly especially when you have a guitar solo stepping all over the notes of the bass player.

I play with a relatively inexperienced drummer who doesn't quite have his tempos down - I usually stick with him, but push the beat. I also try to get him to correct the tempo.

Depends, will he respond if you try to drag him along? How bad does it affect the tune? If he's good and I can get him back on track, I'll try. If he's more inexperienced, I won't try as hard and just play to him, maybe just sit a little more on the front side of the beat.


Chris A. :rolleyes: :bassist:

If he's a pretty good drummer, then he A. Shouldn't drag like that in the first place, and/or B. Will catch on pretty quick. If he's not a good drummer, he's probably not going to catch on very quickly at all, in which case I'd slow down with him.

Sometimes a good drummer just isn't familiar with the tempo of a tune. If we just need to kick it up a bit, I'll start playing a little louder and stronger. Throw in the required glare in the drummer's direction and usually that works.

Chris A. :rolleyes: :bassist:

Mmm, true, I guess someone sitting in or playing a new tune might not be familiar. In that case, though, it's the "or" part of "and/or" ;). If you and the guitarist keep going, he'll catch up.

usualy, when i feel that everything is slowing down, i will try to bring it back to normal speed before it slows down too much. and i will push the speed back, and everyone most of the time realizes it right away and follows.

slow down with him/her...never know..you might of forgotten the tempo change....but he might not of ;)

Even the best make mistakes when learning new things so I say stick with it and bring the drummer back up to it. Thats why its handy to have a long enough cable so that you can kick your drummer...

Leigh

the drummer is the bands timing you stay with him, in a gig situation

Rehersal : " SPEED UP U SLOW #$&*#$^" ...:D

itwould be better to slow down with him and then tell him that hes slowing down rather then make the band look bad, you should have had that as an option.

Rehearsal/recording or gig?

If the former, maintain the correct tempo, establish eye contact and/or verbal contact with the drummer and indicate that he's dragging. If he doesn't get the message, turn up and repeat. If that doesn't work, stop playing.

If the latter, do all of the above except the last step.

Of course, he should do likewise when your tempo goes awry. Any disagreement as to who is correct ultimately should be refereed by a metronome.

Communication among the members of the rhythm section is key to making good music.

I am playing with a drummer now who slows *way* down on certain songs. It is a real drag, no pun intended. I say it's like being pulled from behind by some mysterious force. I had been going back with him, but now I am trying to push a little bit to try and get him back there...sometimes he gets it. You have to be really careful though, because the pocket suffers.

I agree slow down with him if you're giging, Keep the temp if you're rehersing.

Either way, don't forget the dirty look :scowl: :scowl: :scowl:

Pontz

I usually get his attention and start bobbing my head to the tempo the rest of the band is playing. He's a great drummer, but sometimes he just starts slipping. :scowl:

Travis

Hmm, it's an intersting question indeed... I'd stay playing in the correct tempo, 'cause I follow guitars more than drums (the reason is that bass lines of my band are written by one of the guitarists and me, while I'm a former guitar-player myself). However, if the song is funky, I'd slow down with the drummer.

You have to hang with him. The crowd won't know the difference if the song is 2 bpm off the original. But make sure you bob your head, look at him to speed it up. As a bassist I always want to glue it all together but you have to stick with your drummer and stay locked on. As long as the song is played with emotion and you guys are selling it sort of speak then stay with him. If you push or pull I found it sounds like poo!

In most situations I've been in, the bass is a rock while the drummer has a bit more free reign rhythmically. If the bass is draggin/rushing people don't have the support of the bass defining the time. It depends on the situation, but for most that I'm in, the bass is the time where the drums is there chiefly for textures and dynamics. Like big band stuff- the bass is walking while the drummer is doing kicks, fills, punches, etc.

Way off topic comment of the day- What's also nice about being a bass player is that you also get to define the harmony. If a guitarist is playing C, F, G - you can make it into a Db maj7 b5 (or aug 11), Gsus7, Csus, Fsus2, Dmin7, Eb6, Amin7, AbMaj13, etc.

Get a new drummer ;)

Seriously though, the drummers function is primarily as timekeeper, if he/she cant keep time whats the point?

Say you're jamming and the drummer slows down a bit during an especially long bit (such as a guitar solo). Should you, as a bassist and contributing member of the rhythm section, A) slow down to make sure you stay tight with the drummer, or B) keep playing at the tempo and look at the drummer to get him back up to speed?

Your poll is (as usual with these things!) missing the crucial options :

C) Sack the drummer!
D) If C) not possible - Leave the band!



;)

Time is everyone's responsability.

I think it depends entirely on the moment. If the drummer begins to drag as the guitarist races off, maybe it's best to nod the drummer to pick up the pace with the lead? If the drummer slows down with the singer, then maybe go with the drummer. In the end, if the drummer cant keep tempo with the band he aint a good drummer!
In any given scenario it's always going to depend on what the entire band is doing, there are no predefined rules and what makes you a good musician is your ablity to read what everyone else is going to do.


Way off topic comment of the day- What's also nice about being a bass player is that you also get to define the harmony. If a guitarist is playing C, F, G - you can make it into a Db maj7 b5 (or aug 11), Gsus7, Csus, Fsus2, Dmin7, Eb6, Amin7, AbMaj13, etc.

Did you dig that out of a text book perchance?

It is everyone responsibility for sure. But the question was what happens if the drummer does slow down. So what you are saying is you have to babysit the tempo because of your drummer or a drummer. IF he slows down and no one else does it sounds like crap! I hate it when they do and let the bottom fall out of a tune but you have to stay locked in and play with even more feel to make up for the loss the lagging tempo created in the song. But if the drummer knows the tune and song well enough it shouldn't be an issue. If he/she is supporting the harmony of the song correctly the tempo will take care of itself. If the drummer is just playing a beat to the song your playing and not carrying the song with his/her kit then that's when the tempo issues happen.

Our drummer has *SERIOUS* timing issues and also lacks skill. I have to speed up/slow down CONSTANTLY with this guy and it drives me out of my mind. There's nothing worse than playing with a drummer who can't keep a steady beat. THAT is why i'm leaving my existing band cause this drummer has a hard time with even the most basic stuff. Covers we want to do we just can't do right, even simple songs like Incubus' "Drive" or Dramarama's "Anything" because he has the beats all wrong, and it makes it seem like we can't do a cover right. The other players in the band can play just about anything, but that drummer...... :mad: GRRRR........
We'll play a gig along with other bands, and I swear EVERY drummer just schools this guy we have and I have to admit it's pretty embarrassing... :bawl:
I voted for "dump the drummer/leave the band"

Anyone looking for a bassist in Phoenix? :eyebrow:

Oh, to answer the thread, the Drummer is solely responsable to keep the time, and no other. He shouldn't be following anything but the beat in his head.

LEB

what do i do if the drummer slows down? well, if he's doing it to make a change and we're improving, then yea, i'll go with the flow. if we're in the middle of something and he starts losing speed like a dying battery, I make sure to give the coldest stare possible, and if i don't recieve a reaction (pulling his ass back in line) i usually stop the band to address it in a practice situation.

As a drummer who has dealt with plenty of bass players and guitarists who can't keep proper tempo to save their lives, I vote to stick with the drummer if you're in the middle of a show and stop the song and work on tempo if you're in rehearsal.

(Note: As a bass player who has dealt with tempo-challenged drummers I vote the same way.)

There are a lot of valid reasons during a show that the time might fluctuate and it's not a big deal usually to stay with the drummer as long as the change isn't dramatic. The important thing is that the band sounds like one big cohesive unit rather than like a bunch of people tripping over their shoelaces. When you're onstage, you're a team. You support each other. If someone is having problems, you make it look intentional if you want the overall group to look good.

Of course the reverse is true in rehearsal. That's the place to iron out the wrinkles, and if you or another player are having consistant tempo issues then it needs to be dealt with. Tempo IS everyone's job. Guitarists and bassists practice with metronomes too, not just drummers. There's a reason for that.

There was a great quote (which I can't remember unfortunately) by Carlos Santana in a recent interview where he talks about having to sack a former drummer because when the band would fluctuate tempos, the drummer would be dead-on solid and refused to waver. Santana plays with some of the best musicians in the industry, but this cat thought he was more "right" than the other guys. The solution: he hired Dennis Chambers.

Did you dig that out of a text book perchance?

Nope, it was just a thought that came into my mind. Earlier that day a guitarist played a chord consisting of C,F,G and I played a Db as the root, I just thought it was really cool.

Your poll is (as usual with these things!) missing the crucial options :

C) Sack the drummer!
D) If C) not possible - Leave the band!



;)Ok Bruce, but (assuming that not every drummer in your recent history is dead perfect) would you care to answer the question?

Ok Bruce, but (assuming that not every drummer in your recent history is dead perfect) would you care to answer the question?


That is my answer to the question!! ;)

You have to hang with him. The crowd won't know the difference if the song is 2 bpm off the original. But make sure you bob your head, look at him to speed it up. As a bassist I always want to glue it all together but you have to stick with your drummer and stay locked on. As long as the song is played with emotion and you guys are selling it sort of speak then stay with him. If you push or pull I found it sounds like poo!


+1. One drummer I play with will often drag the tempo(or speed up) and it's annoying. I just try stay with him and keep things grooving. If it is a drastic change, I move back and start watching his kick-foot to lock in with his tempo. There's no pushing or pulling him, he doesn't ever think his tempos are wrong. I'll talk to him (tactfully I hope) during a break about any tempo changes or if the tempos where too fast or slow.

He makes playing with a drummer who has steady tempos a real treat, so at least he adds contrast! :D

So much for conclusion. Deadlocked at 34-34. Makes for a cool discussion though!

I would attempt to subtly nudge him back up a bit, but if it really wasn't working, i'd settle back and concentrate on keeping it steady & together

all humans speed up and slow down... even virtuoso musicians exhibit tempo variations... and a slight shift in tempo can add to a lot of music...

I recently attempted to transcribe (with the intention of arranging them for string quartet) a few difficult Frank Zappa guitar solos by importing the audio into Cubase, synchronizing the tempo across the 140 or so bars, then focusing on one bar, sometimes 1 beat at a time, and writing the melody as a separate melody, so you can hear easily whether you got it right or wrong...

and it's surprising how the tempos of even monster musicians like the FZ band alumni vary.... you wouldn't notice any variation just by listening to it, but it was up and down all over the place...

it's just part of being human i spose