I have a very bad ear indeed, I try and try to improve it but can't. I've never seen anything in bass grades that says you HAVE to have a good ear to pass the grade.......

Spend some time with this.

http://www.good-ear.com/servlet/EarTrainer

First, realize that it's more important to recognize intervals (the distance from the root to the note) than it is to recognize the note itself, an Eb or A etc.. That will come later. I hope you know your scales. Start off with some 70's classic rock. It's all in standard tuning and follows the minor or blues scales fairly religiously (AC/DC, Ted Nugent, etc.).

Scales are just finger patterns, they mean nothing by themselves. What you have to realize is that the 5th of A minor sounds the same as the 5th of G major sounds the same as 5th of Eb minor etc. ALL INTERVALS SOUND THE SAME!!!!!! Only the keys change. This is how I, and everybody else not born with perfect pitch learns music by ear (I assume). I ask my guitarist what key he's in and I just go from there. It also helps if he yells out the key changes when it's a new song or we're freestyling.

Try this: go look up some tab for a song and just look at the first note of the song. That's probably the key. Go from there. Remember it takes alot practice and time Nick. Don't fall into the trap,"I wasn't born with perfect pitch."

I wish you the best of luck.

SCALES=NOTE SELECTION :bassist:

You're confusing me. I don;t udnerstand all this 'key' stuff. I never have. What does KEY actually mean? What is KEY? How do you find something's key? I'm confused.

Start here, dude.

Music Theory (http://www.musictheory.net/)

1+
Oysterman showed a good site probably cause I use the site everyday to help get my ears in order although sitting at a keyboard helps too.
Also learn songs by ear but make sure the songs are easy ones to learn for starters it may take you a while but only by repetition would this become easier.
You could even figure out nursery rhymes or playing your national anthem by ear
Even playing a major scale but real slowly so you can hum or sing each note everyday for 5 to 10 mins would be of a great benefit for your ears
Bassically Listen Study Play :bassist:

The best way I've found is to play a lot of scales and get used to each note. You don't necessarily need to know the note, as was pointed out, but know what interval it represents compared to the tonic (the root note). Play major and minor to begin with, and eventually try to get the modes under your belt. Basically though, learn the important intervals (perfect fifth, octave, major/minor third) and work from there. Try to hum the pitch of the note you think will come out of hitting that interval, and then play it on your bass (you don't even have to hum, just imagine it). Be able to identify thirds, fifths, and octaves, and you can work from there later, as I generally associated sixths and sevenths as relative to the fifth and octave, respectively. For example, the minor sixth is a little higher pitched than the perfect fifth, and the major sixth is a little higher than that. And the major seventh is a little flatter than the octave, while the minor seventh is lower than that. And so on. Of course, that's assuming you know these terms. if not, musical theory lessons would definitely be a good start. Essentially though, having a good ear as it relates to bass tends to reflect your understanding of the bass and the notes at your disposal. Scales, modes, and chords will give you a good idea of that. It's all about practice and familiarity.

Once you have mastered your intervals, practice transcribing, practice singing what you play and playing what you sing, practice singing melodies with solfege(do-re-mi-fa-sol-la-ti-do) practice hearing things internally, build your INNER EAR.

I tabbed out the muisc to Snowman once! Lmao, does that count? I also worked out the riff to KoRn, Here To Stay, but I didn't realise the 5 string was detuned, and I'd never actually played along with it with my bass, I'd just found something that soudned like the right intervals in the right places. I'll keep working at it, cheers for the help.

Spend some time with this.

http://www.good-ear.com/servlet/EarTrainer
I can't get that website to work, it doesn't make any noise.

I can't get that website to work, it doesn't make any noise.Try this one, then. It's Flash-based, not as advanced, but enough for your needs I would think.

http://www.guitarknowledgenet.com/

Click on "Ear Trainer".

I have no ides what a 'major 2nd or 3rd or 4th' is. I don't have a clue what to do. I think I'm a lost cause guys, sorry.

I got 5 out of 14 and I set it not to do intervals outside of one octave. How rubbish am i?!

Well, if you have no ideas what the intervals are, then you did great. Lucky guesser. The intervals' names are based on how many half steps (=frets on bass) they are from the root note. Say the root (R) is an open E. Then you have:

E = Root (fret 0)
F = Minor/flat 2nd (fret 1)
F#/Gb = (Major) 2nd (fret 2... etc)
G = Minor/flat 3rd
G#/Ab = (Major) 3rd
A = (perfect) 4th
A#/Bb = raised 4th/flat ("diminished" on GKN) 5th
B = (perfect) 5th
C = Minor/flat 6th
C#/Db = (Major) 6th
D = Minor/flat 7th
D#/Eb = (Major) 7th
E = Octave (fret 12)

This information is not a well-kept secret, and I can't help but think that with a little effort from your side (and Google), you would easily have found this on your own. Next time, perhaps?

Well I have some idea, but my ear needs a boit of training. I know what intervals are......I just don't see how a NOTE can be a certain key on its own.....

Well I have some idea, but my ear needs a boit of training. I know what intervals are......I just don't see how a NOTE can be a certain key on its own.....

It can't.

Have I got this right? You've been getting lessons for four years and you don't know what a key is? You need to ditch your teacher.

A note is a note. A key is a key. An interval is an interval. Those are the basics. What roles different notes (and the intervals between them) may play in different contexts (keys), is beside the point here.

An interval is always relative to a chosen root note (and its octaves). On the ear training sites, this root note is arbitrary and random. You don't need to know specifically what note that is - you only need to identify the interval between it and the second note that is played. Identifying the actual notes is something for people with perfect pitch - not many have that. And even fewer need it.

You're confusing me. I don;t udnerstand all this 'key' stuff. I never have. What does KEY actually mean? What is KEY? How do you find something's key? I'm confused.

Nick, let's take this in a few steps...

A key is just a bunch of notes that work well together to make tunes. Play a major scale starting on, say, a G. All those notes are all in the key of G major. Play a major scale starting on C. Those notes are all in the key of C major.

Compare the notes that are in G major with the notes that are in C major. Most of them are the same, one is different... can you figure out which one that is?

If you don't get it, it might help to know that for ear training exercises like this, keys are irrelevant. Utterly and completely.

Have I got this right? You've been getting lessons for four years and you don't know what a key is? You need to ditch your teacher.

This is true. You need a new teacher, ASAP, Nick.

If you don't get it, it might help to know that for ear training exercises like this, keys are irrelevant. Utterly and completely.

For relative pitch recognition and in context of the original post in this thread, I agree. Keys are irrelevant.

However, Nick was asking about key signatures in another thread, it'd be useful if he indulged himself in the exercise.

To answer the original post:

I have a very bad ear indeed, I try and try to improve it but can't.

Nick, you would really benefit from singing scales. The whole do re mi thing. Sing as you're playing the scales on the bass. Forwards and backwards. That's the first step. Then try arpeggios.

Another useful thing would be to tune your bass by ear rather than using an electronic tuner.

I've never seen anything in bass grades that says you HAVE to have a good ear to pass the grade.......

I've never been to a jam or audition when they've asked me what grade I am. The only thing people care about is if you can play and if you have a good ear. Because if you don't have a good ear, you're not a good musician.

Thanks guys, I had a music lesson today and I've finally nailed some of it. +2+2+1+2+2+2+1 from the root to find the ntoes in a major scale! Isn't that right? And my teacher taught me it, It's just I've had 6 months to forget it!

For relative pitch recognition and in context of the original post in this thread, I agree. Keys are irrelevant.

However, Nick was asking about key signatures in another thread, it'd be useful if he indulged himself in the exercise.

To answer the original post:



Nick, you would really benefit from singing scales. The whole do re mi thing. Sing as you're playing the scales on the bass. Forwards and backwards. That's the first step. Then try arpeggios.

Another useful thing would be to tune your bass by ear rather than using an electronic tuner.



I've never been to a jam or audition when they've asked me what grade I am. The only thing people care about is if you can play and if you have a good ear. Because if you don't have a good ear, you're not a good musician.

I CAN tune my bass by ear. As long as one string is in tune, I can tune my bass by ear.

I CAN tune my bass by ear. As long as one string is in tune, I can tune my bass by ear.

What I was saying was to always tune by ear. Only use an electronic tuner when playing with others or for accurate adjustments when you're setting intonation. Believe it or not, the listening you do when tuning your bass is good basic ear training.

Thanks guys, I had a music lesson today and I've finally nailed some of it. +2+2+1+2+2+2+1 from the root to find the ntoes in a major scale! Isn't that right?

That's a start. Now try writing down the names of notes in the major scales starting from G and C.

+2 +2 +1 +2 +2 +2 +1
G A B C D E F# G

+2 +2 +1 +2 +2 +2 +1
C D E F G A B C


TA DA!

+2 +2 +1 +2 +2 +2 +1
G A B C D E F# G

+2 +2 +1 +2 +2 +2 +1
C D E F G A B C


TA DA!

Good.

When you read standard notation, at the beginning of each stave, you'll see first of all a bar line, then a clef (usually a bass clef for us... that's the thing that looks like a back to front C with two dots after it), then the key signature. On the first stave you'll also see the time signature.

The key signature will usually have either sharps (#), flats (b) or neither in it. The key signature gives you an indication of what key you're in:

If it has neither, it's easy... you're either in C major or its relative minor, A minor.

If it has one sharp, as you've figured out, you'll be in G major or its relative minor, E minor.

Got that so far?

It's starting to make sense. I havent been taught how to work minors out yet(I'm gonna be getting taught), but jsut not yet.

It's starting to make sense. I havent been taught how to work minors out yet(I'm gonna be getting taught), but jsut not yet.

I'll post more on this tomorrow morning. For the moment, try writing out the notes in the major scale starting from each note.

This is going to sound really obvious to some, and I think sometimes my own ear lets me down, but not very often these days - but the really fundamental difference between major and minor is the sound of a major and minor third and seventh - if you can begin to identify these and relate the sounds back to a fragment of a scale - then you should be able to establish what key you are hearing pretty quickly. I do this a lot and the two most obvious ones to work on are the root to third of the scale - and then the seventh to the octave. Once you get into these two starting points you can at the very least tell if the key is major, minor, or dominant - then you have to start getting into the other permiatations - i.e. flattened fifths or raised fourths, sharp/flat 9s (or 2s) etc - but a good start is major or minor - hearing those two should get you started in most situations. Fully studying scales is obviously essential - and singing is a great way to internalise the sounds of the different intervals.

Apologies to advanced music theory majors out there for the slightly simplistic explanation.

I'll post more on this tomorrow morning. For the moment, try writing out the notes in the major scale starting from each note.

Nick, for more on the key stuff, go here...

http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?t=146413

the really fundamental difference between major and minor is the sound of a major and minor third and seventh

Not quite - it's the third and the sixth that define the key, not the 7th (which varies depending on whether or not you're using the harmonic minor or natural minor scale, but that's going too far for this thread.)

As far as the minor key issue, for all simplistic intents and purposes, just make sure the 3rd is minor instead of major (a half-step lower than the major third) and it should sound good, am I wrong? I mean, there are plenty of differences, but unless you're walking a complex jazz line or not playing rock, the other differences don't come up so much.

The whole +2+2+1 scale progression really sidesteps the theory behind it though, and you should probably figure out which notes go in which scale after you play the scale correctly using the formula.

Oh, and I can hear intervals and such pretty well, but are bass players eventually expected to be able to name notes when they are played? Is that possible for everyone? I still have to tune one string electronically to tune my bass. Should I be working on that?

As far as the minor key issue, for all simplistic intents and purposes, just make sure the 3rd is minor instead of major (a half-step lower than the major third) and it should sound good, am I wrong? I mean, there are plenty of differences, but unless you're walking a complex jazz line or not playing rock, the other differences don't come up so much.

The whole +2+2+1 scale progression really sidesteps the theory behind it though, and you should probably figure out which notes go in which scale after you play the scale correctly using the formula.

Oh, and I can hear intervals and such pretty well, but are bass players eventually expected to be able to name notes when they are played? Is that possible for everyone? I still have to tune one string electronically to tune my bass. Should I be working on that?

Want to know a secret?

People aren't born with perfect pitch... they learn it.

Ever notice how people who have "perfect pitch" are often singers?

Sing the lowest note you can without your voice breaking up. It doesn't really drift much... Ta Da! instant internal pitch reference (mine is a slightly pathetic G)

That, with good relative pitch (which can be learnt) is a bit like "perfect pitch" ...wait a minute... it is perfect pitch, at least the beginnings of it.

(note: i only read the first page)

jesus christ man...did you do music in high school over there...here..they start on intervals in your first year, keys, scales and everything..the best way to do it (or how i was taught) is to have a friend thats a keyboardist and get them to play up and down a scale two or three times and then get them to play random intervals and you tell them what it is...its all trail and error

(note: i only read the first page)

jesus christ man...did you do music in high school over there...here..they start on intervals in your first year, keys, scales and everything..the best way to do it (or how i was taught) is to have a friend thats a keyboardist and get them to play up and down a scale two or three times and then get them to play random intervals and you tell them what it is...its all trail and error

School music education in the UK is extremely variable. I taught guitar for a few years and it was pretty clear that, in the area I was living at the time, there was no music education whatsoever for the majority of kids, let alone music theory.

its funny..our high school was a "languages" high school meaning that for the most years the highest scoring subject was the languages..but for the last 7 years the music department has been blowing everything away....our teacher is an amazing guitarist..he has a nice collection of hamers and an early 60's gibson les paul