Hi All Regarding counting in a peice of music!

I have a problem with a musical director of a big band that I play with (she) allways counts in a cut common piece with "one two one two" I totaly disagree with this and have voiced my opinion to her . it should be counted One two 1234, as I have been taught that cut common is 4/4 with a 2/4 feel .
every small Jazz combo I have played with counted 1 2 1234
for cut common
You could say whats the problem ? well whenever she counts with only the the 2/4 pulse the Band allways starts to play under the tempo and she bitches!
It is my belief if she counted correctly 1 2 1234 the tempo would be more readily recognised and establised .

what do you think does anuone have a link to a site that will clarify this for me or cut and past from a theory book to prove or disprove my point
regards Tez

I think a rule of thumb ought to be, if it works, it works

as far as i'm concerned, i'd rather hear '1234' than '1 2' (which probably ought to be '1 3' anyway :) ), but a well rehearsed band (especially one with a conductor) generally ought to be able to start without a count in... for a few of the songs my band does, we just start with a snare on the '4' and away we go...

snare on the 4. is a count in ! as most modern music is in4 ? 4 many Jazz arrangements are in cut common ie 4/ 4 wiyh a 2 / 4 feel

Come on Bass pro's some input would be good

Technically, she is correct. But technique is meaningless if it fails to elicit a practical result. If it sounds bad and the tempo is dragging, what good does it matter if she's counting "properly"?

Ideally, of course, the band should be so tight that it can set the correct tempo on its own. Then you can give the director the heave-ho.

Really you can count-in any way you want. All a count-in is something that sets the tempo for the song. Several I've heard:

One, two, one two three four

One, two, ready, play

One, two, one, two (more of a conductor kind of count-in)

One two three two two three (standard waltz count-in)

One two three two two three (standard waltz count-in)
This to me, suggets compound time count in, because it specifies two beats divided into three...


There are certain ways of counting certain meters, IMO. I would expect:

one two three four -(or four stick clicks) for standard time

one two three -for waltz time

one two three, two two three -for compound time

one two, one two three four -for cut time

Snare on 4 is fine, but it only works if the band is 100% fine going straight into tempo with no indication, but generally speaking I dont call that a count in, more a cue. It works fine the middle of songs to bering the back back in after a period of free time.

try this....when she counts one two, count with her but counting 1 2 3 4. so she'd be saying two when you'd be saying 3!

I consider the count in crucial for getting the feel, as well as the tempo. Regardless of the count, the proof is in the pudding. If the count confuses the musicians then it is useless. I'm glad I'm not a classical musician that uses silent counts that require the nodding of heads, etc.

Just for fun, we do counts like:
uh-1-uh-2 he knows what to do (works well for Bossas)
1-2-3, dog has fleas

That's a brilliant idea. I'm sure the audience would appreciate goofy count-ins!