is there any orchestral players out there who wear ear plugs on a regular basis when they play? it's something i've been considering for a while- one of my my right ear is definitely tinnitis'ed, partially from sitting with it facing the brass section (plumbers! :mad: ). i always wear plugs when i do metal gigs or go to clubs etc. anyone got any sage advice to impart?
cheers
k

... one of my my right ear is definitely tinnitis'ed..

How many right ears have you got - should we be calling you "Four Ears"!!?? ;)

I play mainly jazz/fusion at onstage levels which couldn't remotely be described as excessive BUT I have just experienced total deafness in both ears for over 9 weeks which is an experience I would not wish on my worst enemy.

The problem now having been just about sorted,(still awaiting an NHS appointment with EN&T) I will NEVER rehearse or gig without protection again. I'm now using a set of Etymotic Research ER-20s which seem to be doing the trick. I would wholeheartedly recommend to EVERYONE that they do the same.

Maybe you should wear an ear plug in your right ear during performances where the brass section has a large part.

I actually went to an ENT yesterday afternoon because I have been experiencing hearing loss as well. Constant hardcore and metal shows are where my loss originated. Basically all they could do for me was prescribe some ear drops and suggest less standing in front of huge amps.

I play in a college orchestra and I wear an ear plug in my right ear as I am standing right by the brass players. It is an earplug that I sometimes take partially out if the brass are not playing. Think its 15db. I would not be hesitant at all about wearing a ear plug. My set of custom ear plugs even showed advertising pics of orchestral players using them so they must be selling to orchestral players. Only have one set of ears, and I am doing my best to keep the tinnitus and hearing loss away. Got for it!

How many right ears have you got - should we be calling you "Four Ears"!!?? ;)
hahaha not got a clue what i was thinking when i typed that, mate. :confused:
yeah, my tinnitus is really from excessive thrashing, but the damn plumbers aren't doing it any favours. i think i'll go see my doc about a set of custom plugs...
cheers guys!

hahaha not got a clue what i was thinking when i typed that, mate. :confused:
yeah, my tinnitus is really from excessive thrashing, but the damn plumbers aren't doing it any favours. i think i'll go see my doc about a set of custom plugs...
cheers guys!


Yes - I got a bit of tinnitus in my left ear,playing in Jazz bands at relatively low volume - I'm pretty sure it was caused by standing next to the drummer close to one of the larger cymbals.

I know a lot of Jazz drummers who wear ear plugs all the time - even when playing all-acoustic...:hmm:

Cymbals can cause tinnitus, but they usually do not produce enough decibels in acoustic jazz setup to cause actual hearing loss. I read an article about this recently, and according to that the main cause of hearing loss of drummers ( and those who stand near them ) is the snare.
We must ask our drummers to play more with brushes, I guess...and to be careful with those rim shots.

R2

I dunno...I think my time sitting next to Bob Moses' ride cymbal might have loosened up some stuff up in there.. :eek:

I used to play with Danny Gottlieb on occasion, and he never struck me as a particularly loud drummer, but sometimes his ride cymbal would do a number on me. Once he said, "Am I killing you with that ride cymbal?" I said, "Yeah, but in a really nice way". Must be a NY thing. At any rate, I'd never have suggested to either of those guys to use brushes.

Gotta be careful, though. I watched Charlie Haden, wearing earplugs, visibly wincing, while the very quiet and tasty Billy Higgins played next to him.

Yea guys, dont mess with deafness. I had a colestiaoma (whatever) and for those of you that have no idea what I'm talking about it is when skin grows into cavities around your ear and skin corrupts the inner/middle ear. I have a 60% hearing loss in my left ear, and guys its incredible how much worse I am because of that hearing loss. I had my coach tell me that I would be in a complete other orchestra if I could hear better. Don't use ear plugs, at least in orchestral playing. And anyway, how would you check your blending with other players and the group as a whole. Remember, there is no such thing as one bass player, only the bass section.

Don't use ear plugs, at least in orchestral playing. And anyway, how would you check your blending with other players and the group as a whole.

You can get special "musician's" earplugs which don't block everything, but just attenuate volume to levels which are not damaging.

Cymbals can cause tinnitus, but they usually do not produce enough decibels in acoustic jazz setup to cause actual hearing loss.
R2
as i understand it, any ringing of the ear is actual permanent damage, even if it goes away afterwards. its just a slow buildup of effects. anyway, i have permanent tinnitus, so i wore a plug in the right one this weekend at rehearsals, and will probably continue doing so. it is kinda hard to hear yourself, but i'm gonna try and get some better plugs. i can hear the rest of the orchestra fine.
tata folks

I got a pair of fitted earplugs with 15db attenuation at my local hearing center and I'm not sure how I ever lived without them. They don't have that "underwater" feeling I got with the cheap foamies. As mentioned in a previous post, they just turn the volume down on everything. I shopped around and found a doctor who did mine for $100 (fitting and attenuator).
I have to disagree with a previous post about not being able to hear yourself in the orchestral mix while wearing plugs. A lot of Piano tuners are using musicians plugs while tuning and voicing which requires a lot more acute hearing than knowing whether or not you are blowing the violas away. :D

is there any orchestral players out there who wear ear plugs on a regular basis when they play? it's something i've been considering for a while- one of my my right ear is definitely tinnitis'ed, partially from sitting with it facing the brass section (plumbers! :mad: ). i always wear plugs when i do metal gigs or go to clubs etc. anyone got any sage advice to impart?
cheers
k

k, I play 90% of the time in orchestras, along with other gigs in jazz groups and I use ear plugs for that reason..damn spitoon players :spit: . I use a pair of musicians ear plugs, custom made to fit the shape of my ear canal. I picked the filter with a 15db cut, can still hear the music well enough because the filter will allow most sound to pass. I still can hear myself, ( actually it seems to accentuate the lower frequencies) better with them in, and cuts the higher more damaging higher pitches. IMHO, anyone who plays out reguarly, should wear some form of ear plugs. Music is about hearing..isn't it?

Musicians' ear plugs are absolutely a good idea. I know a lot of veteran musicians who have suffered some form of hearing damage. I'm talking jazz players here, not thrash metal heads. Just last week I was at a master class where a couple of veteran players made sure the class of mostly university age students got the message that a working career in music can and will damage your hearing if you're not hip to the dangers and do something about it.

I spent about 15 years with an R&B band in which our rehearsal space was a small basement room. I usually placed myself near the drummer -- a considerate, intelligent person; not a neanderthal -- and those freaking cymbals absolutely did some kind of damage to my left ear. I have something like a noise-gate effect in that ear, where I get distortion when the sound gets above a certain level; sometimes there's a bit of pain associated with it.

The horn players in that group -- up to three saxes, a trombone, sometimes trumpet -- are loud and absolutely capable of damaging your hearing if the physical space isn't right. The trombonist just got a beautiful new horn -- totally divine sound out of that thing, I looooove trombone -- but she has already accidentally hurt me a few times with "splats" that were not considerately placed in space. In other words, she splatted in my face and it hurt.

Don't mess with your hearing. Get the plugs, no question. You don't have to use them all the time, but they will be there when you need them.

Get the special kind of plugs that just quiet things down, not the kind you wear to mow the grass. I played a couple terms in a university orchestra where I was directly behind the french horns. Talk about suck! I could never hear anything but horn. I couldn't even hear myself or the other seven basses... :rolleyes:

Yes - I got a bit of tinnitus in my left ear,playing in Jazz bands at relatively low volume - I'm pretty sure it was caused by standing next to the drummer close to one of the larger cymbals.

I know a lot of Jazz drummers who wear ear plugs all the time - even when playing all-acoustic...
.
.

You can get special "musician's" earplugs which don't block everything, but just attenuate volume to levels which are not damaging. :

I've also developed some tinnitus in my left ear in the last few years. The drummer is on my left side 99% of the time, and, initially, it was a subtle change since I've always tried to be careful of my hearing. I've worked with this same drummer in a sax led quartet with a female vocalist for 80-85% of my gigs over the last few years. I learned a couple years ago that he has hearing problems related to prior military service. He manages to cover up very well, but over time, you could tell there is a problem. Even though other band members, leader included, have talked to him, I don't believe he hears well enough to realize when his volume has substantially increased. But he's a great drummer and we otherwise have a great time; a fun group to be in. We do songs from the 'great American songbook' and jazz standards.

I used earplugs for a while and considered getting fitted ear protection. But I recently found a product which is made by a maker of fitted musicians' ear protection. The price was only $15/pair and is basically a "one-fits-all" version of his fitted product. If anyone wants to check them out, here's the link: http://www.earlove.net/index1.html

I've used them for the past three months and I think they help alot. However, I also still carry foam earplugs to use if I'm around any excessive volume situations or where the band doesn't seem to have a clue how valuable good hearing is. Even if they're good players, I usually won't hang around too long.

You can get special "musician's" earplugs which don't block everything, but just attenuate volume to levels which are not damaging.
Hello.
I'm looking for earplugs like that. How can I find them? ( I mean something like "custom" made)
Regards
Pat

Hello.
I'm looking for earplugs like that. How can I find them? ( I mean something like "custom" made)
Regards
Pat


Pat:

I use this brand. I think this is what your looking for? www.musiciansearplugs.com/

Dennis

I've had some mild tinnitis for about 2 yrs. and thanks to using plugs for the higher energy gigs, it has just about completely cleared up. The good news is if you give your ears a break, they will get better most of the time.

I use Hearos (http://www.hearos.com/products-00211.htm) . There are a few different kinds from the super cheapy foam plugs to the much better ones that are a nearly uniform -12Db cut across the spectrum. I also have some heavier duty -27Db (heavier treble cut) for use if I get stuck next to someone with a full stack.

The Hearos are pretty comfy and made of very pliable rubber with an internal cartridge (-12Db model) similar to what comes in the more expensive custom fit variety. You can actually adjust the level of attenuation by pushing them further in or pulling them out slightly. I frequently customize my ears depending on where the loudest sources are. The ones I use most often were well under $20.00 and I got them at Guitar Center.

Someday, I hope to play with just ensembles that maintain a proper "Chamber music" level but until then, the Hearos are as important equipment as my strings. Don't go out there without protection!

Pat:

I use this brand. I think this is what your looking for? www.musiciansearplugs.com/

Dennis

I have a set of the Etymotic custom ear plugs mentioned on this website. Here, in California, I needed to go to an audiologist to get them. They made custom ear molds of each ear and then sent the molds out to have them made. The whole thing of making ear molds is tricky and, there were problems with the first take on one ear and it had to be redone. But, they got it right.

Really like these and they are barely noticeable. I got filters with them so I can change the attentuation from 15db (for orchestra) to 25b db for louder music. Carry them where ever I go. Good even to use at concerts.

I, too, have found that the mild tinnitis has just about disappeared as well from less exposure to loud music, and I am talking more about loud trumpets in an orchestra. Yikes, just got done with a trumpet concerto. I don't think I could have got through rehearsal without my ear plugs.

Etymotic Customs are used by the drummer in the rock band I play in. If I'm correct, he can change the filter strength and he never plays without them.

Etymotic also makes a one-size-fits-most "high fidelity" earplug, the ER-20. It is very similar in appearance to the Hearos High Fidelity plugs that I use and is similarly budget priced.

Given the low cost of these models, one could keep a set in each instrument case, just in case the situation gets amped.

Historically, I think the first set of higher quality plugs I used was a pair of Sonic II earplugs (http://www.earinc.com/p1-filtered-sonicvalve.php) which were like the "generic" model and I had them in 1978 (they cost only $2 more now!) mainly because I played next to an insane and nearly deaf guitarist. I would imagine that I owe my hearing to those plugs. I think the Hearos may be more even across fequencies than the Sonics, but maybe I'll get a couple of each brand and do a comparison. I could use the spare sets.

I have a set of those etymotic plugs (ER-15) branded elacin in the UK, I find they really clear up the sound. They are worth the extra money, and over here they cost around $300.

I would have bought them abroad but couldn't get my ears off to send away for the moulds.

Friends, at least one collection of data showed that more % of orchestral musicians suffered hearing loss than any other musicians across the board. So the beatings are not to be taken lightly.

I also use the molded plugs. i sit right next to a kick butt horn section and when I'm stressed I started to hear peeping in my right ear.
I know I have slight hearing loss in the very upper 600mghz range but I get paid to play lower than that.
Low amounts of caffine and sugar help as well. The ear works like a muscle and sometime the dammage is only muscular tension in the ear BION.
Now 5 years later after getting the plugs I no longer have the tinnitus. I believe it was stress related. But this is just as important as the nerves are what cause the muscles to contract. And since I can't stretch my ear muscles I need to find other means.
I would rather play out of tune than be plagued by tinnitus!!

I meant left ear.

I'm not an orchestral player, but while using professionally fitted earplugs (15db cut) with my swing band, I find that I'm much less confident about my intonation because I can't hear myself as well. I'm thinking I might have to either turn up to compensate or put the amp on a stand near my head. I also feel a little disconnected from the music, which is what I've heard most musicians complain about while using earplugs, even good ones.

Any suggestions?

I'm not an orchestral player, but while using professionally fitted earplugs (15db cut) with my swing band, I find that I'm much less confident about my intonation because I can't hear myself as well. I'm thinking I might have to either turn up to compensate or put the amp on a stand near my head. I also feel a little disconnected from the music, which is what I've heard most musicians complain about while using earplugs, even good ones.

Any suggestions?

Hey DB66:
I understand your comments about feeling diconnected with the music. I believe it's a natural expected reaction to what level you're used to hearing yourself, and the band playing at without plugs. I play in both orchestras, and a couple of swing bands, and have expiernced what you're talking about. Obviously there is a decrease in what your ears are picking up otherwise the polugs aren't working. I find the opposite effect though. I tend to hear the lower frequencies better because some mids, and many ohighs are filtered out. Where do you postion your amp now? I always have my amp on my right side, slightly behind me, with the drums next to the amp. I use a small GK w/ 12" speaker and will sometimes raise it off the floor. It does help me. In closing, remenber without plugs one's going to lose much of their hearing anyway, it'll just be so gradual they don't notice until it's too late. It's something to really think about. Hope this helps a little!
Dennis

I sit 4th bass so I'm right next to the brass. Whenever we have a piece with tuba, the stage crew sets up a plexiglass barrier on a musicstand. It doesn't drop the volume but it does take the WHAP! out of the sound. Perhaps your orchestra has them.

If the tuba/brass parts are especially lound and piercing, I roll up a small piece of toilet paper and place it in my right ear. I found it really blocks the sound well and you are never far from some. I usually were the earplug during the rehearsals when they brass play the most and go au-naturalle in the concert so I don't have that swimming under water feel in the performance.

I have hearing damage. I cannot hear any pitch above F5. My high frequencies are so profoundly damaged that the two hearing aids I wear cannot bring these frequencies up enough. There are sections where the solo line just vanishes when I listen to the following pieces: Paganinni's 24 Caprices, Edgar Meyer's cadenzas (harmonics), Webern's Four Pieces Op. 7, and the list goes on.

My hearing damage is strange. If there is a solo line that goes out of my frequency range, then that line will vanish. If there are supporting overtones (accompaniment) then I may hear some or all of the line. This is not always the case.

Either way it is very frustrating :bawl: . Get the plugs (musician's earplugs, not that foam ****) and protect your hearing, no matter the cost. My audiologist chuckled when I told her that I play bass (my high frequencies are shot). :bassist:

A quick Tip for everyone who has problems with feeling disconected while wearing earplugs is to put them in a good while in advance of playing.

I find that if I put my plugs in at least half an hour before I'm on stage I'm able to adapt to them a lot better. As if the brain learns to adjust to the reduced volume and spatial aural information.

I've suffered from tinnitus for nearly two years> My primary concern is to stop it getting any worse.

Another tip for loud gig goers is to be aware of how much alcohol you consume. Alcohol will reduce the perception of the uncomfortable effect of loud music. Your senses become dulled so it is easier to tolerate damaging sound levels.
Ear plugs then become even more important.

is there any orchestral players out there who wear ear plugs on a regular basis when they play?
Presumably, you're talking about bassists. FWIW, I know that earplugs are worn by the principal oboe in the Boston Symphony and the Met orchestras. Typically, that instrument is in the center, in front of the brass.

Get the plugs (musician's earplugs, not that foam ****) and protect your hearing, no matter the cost. My audiologist chuckled when I told her that I play bass (my high frequencies are shot). :bassist:

+1. I am glad I spent a couple of hundred dollars on good musician's earplugs a while back. I don't have hearing loss, but now even the tinnitus is better. Hearing aids later down the road cost much more than a few hundred dollars anyway. That means going to an audiologist to get the right fit. Brass players in the orchestra are loud and its all stressful without earplugs. Musicians earplugs don't sound like mud. In fact, even if you get those cheap musician's ear plugs they sell at Guitar Center and in music catalogs for about $15, you shouldn't have the sounds-like-mud problem. Good musician's ear plugs attenuate all frequencies evenly.

Sadly, our principal bassist, who recently turned 70 and plays in several orchestras, is really losing his hearing. How sad. He doesn't say much about it, but says "what" a lot and I can only imagine how frustrating this must be for him.

+ 1 again. I had a set of molded plugs (15db) for years. Keep in mind that even though they're expensive they last for years and years. Mine eventually got less flexible and uncomfortable (and kind of grungy) but I still got a good 6-7 years out of em.

When I got those made the audiologist told me I had the hearing of a typical middle-aged orchestral player. Unfortunately I was 24 at the time. Damn that punk rock.

Reading this thread is giving me an earache.

Do you any of you guys ever use those headphones you can get that lower the volume just like earplugs?

Do you any of you guys ever use those headphones you can get that lower the volume just like earplugs?

Hmm.. like those things that the guys digging up roads use? :)

I dunno, I never heard of it, but it'd have to be really small not to knowck off the bass at your left ear, right? at least for me..

Do you any of you guys ever use those headphones you can get that lower the volume just like earplugs?

It's pretty easy to get non-attenuating ear plugs molded to your ear's insides, and you can then get various noise filters so that you can control how loud things sound to you.
Not cheap like foam ear plugs, but worth it to save your ears.
My stand partner uses them all the time; he's right next to the tuba/brass....

I've been reading about hearing vis-a-vis the Alexander Technique and learned about another auditory dysfunction that can't be averted by ear plugs, i.e., high bone conduction. This means taking in more sound through bone and tissue than via the ear. High bone conduction has been shown to cause anxiety as it overwhelms the system.
Pity the poor people who have to sit in front of the brass.

I recently went to an audiologist and found I need to start watching my hearing. He mentioned freeway noise as being one cause of hearing loss. Currently, I don’t use ear protection in my orchestras or jazz groups. I do use noise-suppression head-phones with my iPod while driving. Previously, I would increase the volume to compensate for freeway noise. Now I keep my iPod volume low and cut-out the freeway drone. This works very well for me.

Does anyone know if the musician earplugs have active or passive noise-suppression?