Since i've been listening to Primus, i've gotten really into the stand-up. I also want to join Jazz Band next year and I think a stand-up would be cool. So I have a question for you. I'm only a Freshman, so I'm short on cash and i'm looking for an EUB. I was checking out the Dean stand up, anyone think that's a good beginner bass? If not, what's a good (relative to the price) stand up bass?

Thanks a ton guys!

And one more thing, on the song "Mr. Krinkle" by Primus (on the Pork Soda album), does anyone know how he gets that sound with his stand-up? Is it just a regularly stand-up or is he using distortion?

The Dean is worthless. It has a BG bridge and a BG neck. You'll never get the right technique playing it -- it's also got BG scale and a slightly-rounder-than-BG fretboard. Look for a Carruthers if you want to go REAL cheap, but I've gotten great reccomendations in the last few posts in my topic "DB or EUB?" in this forum.

What is a stand-up? I think I have one of those on my bicycle.

Are you mocking me?

What is a stand-up? I think I have one of those on my bicycle.

Not exactly a welcoming remark, dude. I think I smell some bad bait here!

Hey, I'm a big Primus fan also. Claypool played Mr. Krinkle with a regular double bass, probably a 4/4 size and used a bow, probably caked with rosin. By the way, I think stand up is a bad word around here, lol. Anyway, I was in the same boat as you, I wanted a double bass really bad but just didn't have the cash for the one I wanted. I had my eyes on the NS Design that les claypool plays now. It goes for about $2879.99. I also looked into the dean but thought it wasn't worth it. It seemed like just a fretless bass standing on its end. I doubt that thing sounds anything like a DB. So, this is what I did. I searched the internet on building my own DB and found bob gullihur's website. He has a very useful website with lots of information on his own homemade DB. Here is the link.
www.gollihur.com/kkbass/basslink.html
After some major brain-storming I went and spent 70.00 bucks worth of wood. Hard rock maple and bloodwood were my favorites, and just a small piece of ebony for the nut, bridge and cover plate. I am no luthier by any means, but I did manage to build my own electric double bass. check it out on this link.
http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?t=163176
It wasn't really that hard to build, more time consuming than anything. and a whole bunch of filing and sanding. I have about $640.00 bucks invested in it. I didn't buy the cheap parts either. The most expensive thing to purchase was the strings right at $150.00. I used d'addaio hybrid strings. I also installed a double big twin piezo pickup and pure preamp by K&K sound, each around $100.00 bucks. I took the preamp apart and bought nicer pots for it instead of the little plastic pots that are not made for constant tweeking. It sits on a Pearl tom stand that ran me about 110.00. The hardest part was shaping my finger board, I just used a hand planner and started shaping. The whole thing turned out sweet. I couldn't be happier with it. It plays and sounds and looks awsome. You might give it a try. There's nothing like playing your very own homemade instrument on stage. A good place to start is with a premade fingerboard available at bob's website.
well good luck finding/making an EUB.
john

Are you mocking me?

It's just a meaningless term - you are in the Electric Upright part of the Double Bass forum - the correct terms are written out for you in the headings of the forums - how easy do you want it to be...:hmm:

Les Claypool plays an Electric Upright bass live - the NS design - and he also plays Double Bass ocasionally - but not "standup" - I have never heard that term used before!

I stand up to play my bass guitar, but I would also stand up to play violin or flute etc. ....:hmm:

Double bass, contrebasse, upright bass, stand-up bass, doghouse bass, etc. are all synonyms, AFAIK.
A little search on Google with "stand-up" or "standup" will bring results related to the doubles bass.
Or am I missing something else?
Now please move the discussion back to the EUB!

Are you mocking me?
Not at all. Believe me, I'm one of the good cops in this precinct.

There's a lot that I don't know about double bass, since I've only been doing it for about thirty years, and even more that I don't know about EUBs. One thing I do know, as long as there's an Ed Fuqua, I'd never use the term "standup" in these forums, unless I'm talking about peeing.

Just tryin' to help, son. My EUB is an Azola, and I can recommend it highly if you want to spend that much. The Dean is pretty toylike in comparison. Much cheaper, though.

Well - I've never heard anybody in the UK talk about "stand-up" except when referring to comedians!! ;)

And anyway, you can get a decent plywood bass for less money than an electric upright.

Ah sorry for being a ****, I thought you were making fun of me! :p

Thanks for all your input, especially toonman!

Now please move the discussion back to the EUB!

Petary791, as long as you can get your hands on an EUB that you like and keep asking questions it will be a great instrument to explore. The Dean is more related to bass guitar than others, that is the whole point of the design. I tried a few of those at the 2005 NAMM in Anahiem. They were all over the place! It is a decent, usable instrument. And affordable. I wouldn't choose it for myself at this time. A couple of others worth looking at in this style of instrument are the Clevenger Bassboy and the Azola Gypsy, and maybe one by ZETA. I've seen some EUB kits online also. (And no, I am not an instrument dealer, or builder.)

Playing EUB, you may find resistance and outright hostility from some acoustic bass violin (aka double bass players) from time to time, as well as other musicians that feel the EUB doesn't merit space in music. This type of attitude has been something I've experienced, anyway. For myself, I love the instrument, and that's why I'm taking a moment to write here!

By the way, I think that Claypool *IS* doing some pretty interesting things on the EUB!

Cheers

I haven't found any resistance to my EUB whatsoever. Most people seem to love the thing.

Of course not everyone has! I remember an old Downbeat interview with Richard Davis where he discussed the criticism he recieved in NYC when he sterted using the Ampeg Baby Bass in jazz circles. It is a very real attitude that some musicians have towards EUB's. I hope that nobody here ever has to experience it! ;)

Fwiw. I have bass guitars, an EUB and Double Bass. All three are very different. Each instrument I play has a different sound and occupies a different space holding down the bottom end or as a solo voice. I try to choose the right tool for the job, as I perceive it.

On a recent rock/pop CD project I worked on I used all of them on one track or another. I had the luxury of swapping out instruments several times before the final takes. Doing this made me see how each instrument suggested different things to me in the same composition. Choosing the right instrument for the song helped me compose parts that were supportive and yet distinctive while still serving the song.

I suggest playing whatever instrument is calling you regardless of the cost or the “rules”. Study it as thoroughly as you can. Find your own unique voice with whatever you choose, and play it as if each note were your last.

I haven't found any resistance to my EUB whatsoever. Most people seem to love the thing.

I have on many occasions - especially from DB teachers in the UK.

I was at Jazz Summerschool last year in a bass class and one of the students came up and looked at my EUB and started saying how much he liked it and then the teacher (a Jazz DB pro) came over and started saying how they were a waste of time etc. etc. and basically told this guy not to buy one! :hmm:

An EUB sounds like a regular DB right? Also, I would still need rosin and whatnot correct? I know they're kind of a dumb questions...

And would this be ok that i'm running through and Ampeg BP-210SP?

An EUB sounds like a regular DB right?

If you're very lucky a good one will sound like an amplified DB - but never like an acoustic DB!

I've found that scale length around 42" is essential and decent DB strings , along with raising the action and playing with DB technique - otherwise it can sound very much like fretless BG...:hmm:


Also, I would still need rosin and whatnot correct? I know they're kind of a dumb questions...


You need rosin if you want to bow - otherwise not!

And would this be ok that i'm running through an Ampeg BP-210SP?

I would say this is the one other big thing about how they sound - so my experience has been that using typical rock bass guitar amplification - it sounds more like bass guitar.

What you really need is "Hi Fi" gear that reproduces what is put into it faithfully without any coloration or distortion.

Usually this kind of gear is expesive - but it does make a big difference in terms of making EUB sound close(r) to amplified DB!

I think in many ways this is why people say that EUB is a waste of time - as it will probably cost you more to get an EUB to sound like DB, than if you bought a reasonably-priced DB!! ;)

Well that's a very good point (your last sentence.) Should I get a DB and a pickup, or an EUB?

:help:
I'm so confused!

many years ago I played 90% of my gigs on DB. I had a couple Kay's, then a beautiful 1820's solid/carved instrument. The Kays were..well.. Kays.. in that they were ok for some stuff, but didn't suit my ultimate purpose. The 1820's bass was a stunning example....of a bass that needed a total restoration; a task I was not up to affording. I reluctantly let it go (sob..) to a player that ended putting many $k into it. I bought a Turner Renaissance Fretless and it served my purposes fine, knowing that someday i'd somehow transition back. That day has come, and I ended up with a NS design CR4M, which I love. Ultimately I'll want another acoustic instrument but for now this is very portable, plays beautifully and has a credible ensemble voice. And it's allowing me to get some chops back.
My long-winded attempt at making a point: Buy something that suits your purpose/budget for now, because at least you'll be playing. Then work on a plan to move ahead.

That day has come, and I ended up with a NS design CR4M, which I love. Ultimately I'll want another acoustic instrument but for now this is very portable, plays beautifully and has a credible ensemble voice. And it's allowing me to get some chops back.
My long-winded attempt at making a point: Buy something that suits your purpose/budget for now, because at least you'll be playing. Then work on a plan to move ahead.

That was exactly my thinking! So I knew I wanted to play Jazz - but I just couldn't find a DB that sounded good and that I could afford - whereas, I went into the Bass Centre in London and tried several NS basses which sounded great to me and which I could buy on interest-free credit - I walked out with an NC CR5 under my arm!! :)

I haven't regretted this in any way - I've enjoyed playing it and feel my Jazz playing has improved as a result - and I'm not so thin-skinned as to let anybody (even Jazz pros) put me off!! ;)

I've enjoyed playing it and feel my Jazz playing has improved as a result - and I'm not so thin-skinned as to let anybody (even Jazz pros) put me off!! ;)


Bravo!

Bottom line should be -what sound do you hear in your head? You buy the instrument that gets you closest to that with the least amount of effort. There's another whole thing about how the sound you have in your head can get so specific that you can get a version of that sound on any bass that you play, but that's talking about acoustic instruments.

If you like the sound of an EUB, you should get one. If you like playing an EUB, you should get one. If what you hear and what you want to play is a DB, then getting an EUB is going to be a disappointment in the long run. And given the choice of paying $2500+ for an EUB or $2500 or less for a New Standard, Christopher or Shen laminate or hybrid, finance shouldn't be a problem. Electric players DO find EUBs (especially those that aren't set up anything like an upright) easy to play and, in my opinion, they are willing to forgo any similarity to an acoustic instrument and the SOUND of an acoustic instrument because they don't have to put in any extra work to get a sound out.

I personally think that this is going to come back and bite them on the ass down the line.

There are reasons I play a bass that's not just a version of some kind of big fretless electric bass, but the biggest reason is SOUND. I hate carrying the big bastard around, I hate having to deal with the variances that weather introduces, I hate the sheer physicality of what i have to do to produce a sound out of the bastard. But nothing else in the world SOUNDS like that. So I don't care what I have to do. If I ever buy an EUB to fly around with, Ill be bemoaning the fact that it doesn't sound like my bass every time I pick it up. But that would be the only reason for me to buy one - do I spend $2000 on a flight case and still risk damage to the instrument I love or do I spend $2000 on a stick that doesn't sound anything like it, but can get shoved in the belly of a plane or a bus with little worries about damage?

Life is too short not to play the bass you love, make your choice based on that. Not what's supposed to be easier or better or whatever.

Well, I think i'm gonna go with an EUB. I've seen people make their own, it has kind of inspired me. The sound i'm looking for is anything that Les Claypool does... I love the sound in Mr. Krinkle. Also, I don't know much about jazz on the EUB, I would try to be innovative, ya know? I'd try to develop my own style.

I'm done dreaming now... :smug:

Given that narrow frame of reference, please remember, as Toonman pointed out, Les played "Mr. Krinkle" on an acoustic double bass, with a bow. So if that one song is your frame of reference, you might never get the sound that's in your head out of an EUB. Also remember that, as double bassists go, Les is a great electric bassist. :smug: I really admire what he does on the slab, and I like Primus, but I never think "Les Claypool" and "double bassist" in the same thought.

I suggest that you try to get your hands on some basses, both EUBs and DBs, and with the guidance of someone who plays the things every day, make your own choice based on the sound. It's hard to describe this stuff over the internet. Feel free to ask us a bunch of questions, no matter how silly they may seem to you. Maybe we can keep you from spending your money on something that won't ultimately be satisfying to you.

Thanks a ton! You guys are sweet!

EDIT: Oh yeah one more thing, I was watching the Mr. Krinkle video, and he plays a REALLY light colored stand-up, i've never seen it before. Any idea on what wood?

Petary791, sounds like you are going for the music you hear in your head. That always seems to be what works best. Good luck, I hope you will be posting with your progress. I think we all might get some bits from you for our own progress that way!

BTW, I have played acoustic way longer than the EUB (I love both), but discussing those skills and interests at lenghth here here would seem off topic.

It'll be great to hear what you're up to with EUB's, other basses, and music.


_______________________________________________

Thanks a ton! You guys are sweet!

EDIT: Oh yeah one more thing, I was watching the Mr. Krinkle video, and he plays a REALLY light colored stand-up, i've never seen it before. Any idea on what wood?

If you can post a link to the vidclip, our beloved Ken Smith can tell you what the bass is, what the woods are, and the exact date and time the bass was built ;)

I went on Wishbass.com or whatever, and I found this one.

http://www.wishbass.com/pages/943110/index.htm (scroll down)

Is that a real bad one to start with?

Ummm, in the immortal words of Montey Python: RUN AWAAAAYYYYY"


You've received some good advice already. I'll add that I went to an EUB for health reasons (back surgery) and couldn't tote my Kay around. I'm very happy with my Ergo.

Ummm, in the immortal words of Montey Python: RUN AWAAAAYYYYY"


You've received some good advice already. I'll add that I went to an EUB for health reasons (back surgery) and couldn't tote my Kay around. I'm very happy with my Ergo.

I'll second that bit of advice!

_______________________________
"What a long strange trip it's been!" -Jerry and the bunch

I thought about sending some plans of a bass guitar I designed to wishbass and have him build it for me. I perfer my own designs over his. :eek: That was before I knew what all was involved in building a bass and built my own EUB. (sorry for mentioning it so much, I'm just so damn proud of it). I wanted wishbass to build me a 38" scale 6 string fretless, and went as far as drawing up the plans and asking him for a quote. His price wasn't to bad for the details I put into the drawing, but I was still sceptical. That is going to have to be my next project I think. I've built an upright, now its time for the 6 string fretless, Carl Thompson style. :bassist: I've also built about 14 or so whamola's for a bunch of primus fans. If you dont know what a whamola is, check this link out. http://tantalusband.com/whamola.html
This is my bands website. If your a primus fan you should know about the whamola by now. I saw him play it live and I had to have one of my own. So I made plans for my own version of the whamola and built it myself. After playing on the whamola for awhile, especially arco style, I wanted to learn the EUB. Even though I didn't have the cash to go buy the EUB I wanted, by building one, I now have one I personaly like even better than the one I wanted and it means a lot more to me than any other bass out there. Even if it sounded like crap and didn't play as I wanted it to, I still would like the fact that I tried, and learned what I did the first go around. It was scary at first especially making the first couple of cuts. I really didn't know what I was really up against until I went and bought the supplies and started building. Things just started to fall in place like I knew what I was doing or something. I guess what I'm tring to say here is I knew what I wanted and went for it, even if it meant building my own and taking the chance of it not looking, sounding, or playing good. Which I did run into some problems, But you work around those too. You need to get what you want not what others tell you sounds good, and if it isn't out there for the price your willing to spend, build it. There are plenty of links and people here on this site Including me that will be happy to instruct you through the process of building one. Keep in mind it may take several tools you may not have depending on how detailed your going to get with it and a lot patience. Oh yea, and alot of filing and sanding. You may not want to go through the trouble of building one, but if you do, you'll love that bass more than any other. Ok, I think I'm done with my novel. Good luck with your decision.

I got your message and sent one right back to ya.

thanks

Petary, I'm on the same page as UncleToad. Each type of bass has its own unique sound and it's either what you like or not. As much as I love my KYDD Carry-On 4 EUB (www.kyddbass.com), it's not a double bass. Even the maker, Bruce Kaminsky, says the sound "is very similar to an amplified (not mic'd) acoustic bass." If you're really looking for a double bass, get a double bass. Even a cheapie will give a more acoustic sound than an EUB.

Now, personally, for what I play, my EUB is perfect. Many years ago, I took double bass lessons and, between my lack of formal music training and an impatient instructor, I soured on the instrument quickly. I went back to my MusicMan Stingray and didn't look back. In 1999, I saw Al Tharp of the cajun band Beausoliel playing an EUB (a KYDD, in fact). It was a mix between a fretless electric and an upright. Way cool. I bought one and loved it ever since.

The best way I can explain it is to say it's a fretless electric bass played with an upright technique. I know I solo very differently on my EUB than on my fretless Warwick Thumb. The sound is very different than an electric, but it's not an upright - it's a hybrid. Most other band members will swear that it sounds exactly like an upright, but bassists won't (what do most guitarists know from bass anyway?:eyebrow: ).

One other piece of advice I can offer was mentioned earlier: get the best amplification system you can. A "run of the mill" bass amp will only frustrate you. The base sound that comes out of an EUB is significantly different than an electric bass and the eq controls have their base frequencies in the wrong place. Some type of parametric eq for the mids is a good start, but go for an amp that does not color the sound of the instrument. Personally, I bit the bullet and went for an Eden 550/212 combination. It works well for me and gives me a sound like no other amp/cab combination I've tried. I would look at an Eden Metro, maybe an Aguilar, an Epifani, Phil Jones, etc.

Another important issue is a good preamp. Unless the EUB has a built-in preamp that matches the impedence of a piezo-based pickup system to a "regular" amplifier. For a much more thorough discussion of impedence matching, refer to Bob Gollihur's website.

Bottom line, if you're looking to get an upright sound on the cheap, an EUB ain't gonna do it. Between the base cost of a good quality instrument ($1,500+), a good preamp ($80+) and a good amp system ($1,000+) It would be better to get a mid-range upright bass, good strings and an awesome mic/pickup system. However, if you like the concept of a fretless electric sound mixed with a little upright played with an upright technique (including bowing), an EUB is THE BOMB. Another cool thing is bowing while going through effects. Flanging, delay, chorus, envelope followers, all add a coolness for the right project. I play with a few "experimental" musicians and the EUB adds the right type of mojo for that.

Plus, they just look freakin' cool on stage...

Coop

I think you're a year too late!! ;)

At least!!

Yeah, but people still read these moldy threads from time to time...