Hey guys.

I'm very close a purchasing an Eminence EUB. For me, I think the sound offers the best bang for the buck.

The is the problem I am running into. I've got it in my head somewhere that I'll loose gigs because its an EUB and not a traditional DB. There are alot of "old school" cats that dont want to see anything but a DB on the stage. The thing is, both of my playing situations (quartet and big band) both allow, and almost prefer, an EUB.

I don't plan on doing Orchestral stuff. The main thing keeping me away from a DB is size and $$$. For $2400 I can get a pretty nice/great EUB. For $2400 I can get an average DB. Then tack on the price of a pickup and the problem of finding a vehicle to carry an electric, DB, amp, and whatever else I need for a gig.

Anyway, has anyone ever had experience being turned down for a gig because you have an EUB rather than DB? Or am I not giving people enough credit to be open minded about it?

I own an Eminence. While there may be some truth to what people are telling you (re: a preference for a "proper db"), I've never had any trouble showing up with my darling "Emmy." One thing that may help is that the Eminence still LOOKS like a db, albeit a skinny one, as opposed to those EUBs that resemble something else.

I'm curious to know what others think about this topic as well, since the notion has occurred to me from time to time.

I play a BugBass in a blues band...mostly small stages and a URB is out of the question. The times I've tried, feedback and stage space have made a EUB seem very appealing. And the EUB sounds more like a URB than a URB can under those conditions.

I'd say work on a good sound and let the skeptics judge the EUB on its sonic merits...the Eminence will likely sound more URB-like than my Bug, too.

I play a BugBass in a blues band...mostly small stages and a URB is out of the question. The times I've tried, feedback and stage space have made a EUB seem very appealing. And the EUB sounds more like a URB than a URB can under those conditions.

I'd say work on a good sound and let the skeptics judge the EUB on its sonic merits...the Eminence will likely sound more URB-like than my Bug, too.

I see what you are saying. Thankfully the people I play with now know that the sound of EUB's has gotten ALOT better. I just would like to keep my options open for future gigs.

Now, having said that, am I right in the statement where a $2400 you can have a GREAT EUB but $2400 will get you an average/beginner upright?? I went shopping for uprights yesterday in Indianapolis. The only thing I could find in the $2400 range was an average german bass. Dont know the maker. It was nothing "stimulating" per say. Just like playing any other DB. But, I've had past experience with the eminence having played on in college. Maybe my ears are wrong but I think the eminence sound just as good as any $10,000 upright on a pickup (on a mic is a different story). I just can't justify spending $10,000 on a great FEELING DB just to put a pickup on it.

It all makes sense in my head. Hope its making sense to you guys. I LOVE DB, dont get me wrong. If I had the space and the money, I would love to get a beautiful one. But, to me, its like going backwards in quality buying an investment bass ($10,000+) and then putting a pickup on it. Even though you have a HUGE body you arent getting all of the sound anyways.

And in your price range, if you do your research and take your time shopping, you can get double bass that sounds as good an Eminence amplified and infinitely better than an Eminence when played acoustically. And a lot more fun to play.

I absolutely agree with you but the problem is I do not know any situations I would play strictly acoustically.

Honestly, for looks, a DB has a more "authentic" look no doubt. But I dont know, for me, if that out weights the cons of a DB such as portability, storing it, and the added extra cost of amplifing it.

The DB I was talking about in Indianapolis is a rent to own. I was considering renting it for a couple months and lugging it around to see if its something I would want to do. Problem is I dont want to invest in a pickup if I'm going to not keep the bass.

Edit: If I do get an EUB, it'll be the Eminence. I played it for 2 years in college and fell in love with it.. For me its the most comfortable and natural feeling of the EUB's I've played.

When you say "gigging" what kind of playing are you refering to? Stadiums, coffeehouses, touring 200 dates a year, playing every other Thursday at a local club? Jazz, blues, rock, bluegrass? Bulgarian death prog-polka?

Oh, quartet and big band, so I'm assuming it's "jazzish". I don't think you'll have a problem keeping a gig, at least until somebody who plays an actual double bass comes along. There are any number of people on this site (Ray Parker, Marcus Johnson, a few others) that are actual professional double bassists who also have EUBs, you might want to talk to them directly about their preferences. My sense is that the ONLY reason they even have an EUB is because it's easier to tour than their real bass. Ray even drags his heavier, more fragile, more expensive real bass around NYC (and Lawn Guyland!) on the train, you may want to find out why.

"For $2400 I can get a pretty nice/great EUB. For $2400 I can get an average DB." See for me, the equation's a lot different. I can get an EUB that sounds like a badly amplified real bass for $2400 OR I can get an actual acoustic instrument (the New Standard which is in this price range is not an "average" DB) for the same (or less) money.

I know that it's popular to think that it's "old school" or "snobbism" that's behind the reasoning for people preferring the actual acoustic instrument. I think that it's easier to rationalize not wanting to do a lot of the work necessary to get a good sound out of the double bass, if you can blame somebody else's "prejudice". But, as I continue to say, if I could get the sound I want out of a kazoo, I would. If a piano player could get the same sound out of a keyboard, that's what you would see in concert halls across the country. An acoustic instrument produces richer and more 3 dimensional aural "picture", than an electric instrument. And, for better or worse, the "feel" that has defined straight ahead jazz was developed and involved on this acoustic instrument, so that the typical sound of the attack, swell and decay of a quarter note walking line is as readily identifiable as the "sound" of this music as a gamelan is of Indonesian music.

The only reason that you should by an EUB is if THAT IS THE SOUND that you hear in your head (or because it's gotta go under the bus). If you really hear electric and the only reason you want to play EUB is so that it "looks" like you're playing upright, why not just stick to your guns? Should I play mediocre electric bass just cause some people would rather hear electric bass in a band?

If you HEAR the sound of the DB in your head, just cut to the chase and get an acoustic instrument.

Maybe the solution is to rent the URB for awhile and spend some dough on a pickup (a value-priced K&K Bass Max, perhaps?). If the URB doesn't fill your needs you could return the bass, sell the pickup, then pursue the Eminence. At least you'd know whether an URB is preferrable to a EUB.

Just a thought.

Jeez Ed, everyone knows that "Bulgarian death prog-polka" is done with synthesizers....

I absolutely agree with you but the problem is I do not know any situations I would play strictly acoustically.

And playing an electric instrument, you'll never find out either.
I do about 80-90 gigs a year (yeah, I know, a light weight) and I only used an amp on about 10% of those in 2004. I haven't used an amp on a gig in 2005 yet.

Look, sailing a boat is harder than steering a motorboat. They both go from point A to point B. One puts you in closer touch with your immediate environment and you have to develop your knowledge, your skill, your self reliance etc. The other you have to turn a key. Sure it all depends on what you want, but being able to take this big giant hunk of wood, cloth and metal and make it go somewhere that you want it to go just by your ability to make it interact with the wind and water is kinda cool.

Kinda like still being able to make music if the power goes out.

Look, sailing a boat is harder than steering a motorboat. They both go from point A to point B. One puts you in closer touch with your immediate environment and you have to develop your knowledge, your skill, your self reliance etc. The other you have to turn a key. Sure it all depends on what you want, but being able to take this big giant hunk of wood, cloth and metal and make it go somewhere that you want it to go just by your ability to make it interact with the wind and water is kinda cool.


Well, I think I'll go to the sail boat. I'm going to rent it for a few months and see how I like it and see if its worth lugging it around. My main concern is some of the places where we play are quite cramped, but I'm sure I'll figure it out..

Hey bobby, have you checked out "About Music" in broadripple? From what I've seen, He's the authority on Double Basses in Indianapolis. He has an eminence too. It's left handed, but you could do a little bit of side by side comparison at his shop. (BTW, you should finish filling out your profile).

But about the original question. I am auditioning for the jazz band at purdue in the fall, and I am definetly feeling a little leary about walking in there with my EUB. It's hard to judge the musical preferences of a group of people I have never met, but I know the guy in there now plays Acoustic. I guess all I can do is hope for the best.

Anyway, has anyone ever had experience being turned down for a gig because you have an EUB rather than DB? Or am I not giving people enough credit to be open minded about it?

Oh yes, this has (and will) happen from time to time. What really matters is your committment to your chosen instrument.

Acoustic bass is a beautiful instrument, designed and devoloped over the course of about the last 400 years or so. What a wonderful sound....... Putting a pickup or a mic on it changes and distorts this sound.

EUB is a beautiful instrument too. It requires alot of dedication to make it shine in situations that have traditionaly used acoustics. EUB doesn't have nearly as much history as the acoustic bass. (but it has alot more than some realize) For this reason, sometimes there will be resistance from certain musicians and music fans. You will have to out on a hair shirt when comes to interacting with some persnalities, regarding using the EUB! That has been my experience, anyway.

I love and feel privileged to be playing both instruments (URB and EUB) these days.

An acoustic instrument produces richer and more 3 dimensional aural "picture", than an electric instrument.

IMO, even a DB with a pickup still sounds 10 X better than an EUB. EUB's just don't have that depth that a big body chamber can give.

Pricewise, $2400 can get you alot of bass for the buck. If you shop around and find something like a Christopher, Eastman, or Shen in that price range you might be surprised. My teach regularly gives me compliments on my Chrissy, and he's one that usually favors older/seasoned basses and usually not new, much less cheaper basses. A good setup and the right set of strings can go a long way.

Well, I think I'll go to the sail boat. I'm going to rent it for a few months and see how I like it and see if its worth lugging it around. My main concern is some of the places where we play are quite cramped, but I'm sure I'll figure it out..


Well - if you're prepared to change your mind completely, because of a few comments on an internet forum, then it would suggest to me that you didn't have much conviction in your original idea..?

Or you are Ed's 'patsy' in disguise, colluding to show all us EUB players, the error of our ways!! ;)

I own and gig both an URB (New Standard Cleveland) and an EUB (Azola Bugbass II) on a fairly regular basis...average 10 gigs a month. My URB is first choice, until space or gig conditions make it necessary to take the EUB along.

I play in some of the most traditional styles, where you'll always get lots of funny looks and comments about an EUB...until I start to play. The proof is in the playing, IMHO. If somebody is going to deny you a gig based on your instrument choice (and not what you can do with it), then it wasn't a worthwhile effort anyway. They both have their uses, and a good player can do well with either.

If you have to have one or the other, I'd suggest you take Ed's frequently-stated mantra to heart...go for "the sound that's in your head".

I have been gigging with either of two one of a kind custom made EUB's that I had made for me by an outstanding luthier (Karl Hoyt) located on Cape Cod . They are both 5 string EUB's (with a high C string as opposed to a Low B) and both basses have a 41 1/2" scale length. Both basses are equipped with Thomastic Spirocore Weichs and two pickups (a Fishman full circle and a K& K Sound Bass max). I usually utilize only the Fishman pickups with the Bass Maxes there primarily for redunancy if needed.

I play strictly jazz and have had absolutey NO negative inputs or comments about using these instruments as opposed to my "trusty" 60 year old Kay acoustic URB which I still use on occcasion - but usually only if the gig requirement is strictly "acoustic". As a matter of fact, many listeners have commented that "if you close your eyes it's very hard to tell the difference between either of my EUB's and an acoustic upright equipped with a pickup." I believe that unsolicited testimonials like that "tell a story" that if the EUB is well designed and is used with quality electronics and speakers (a very important part of the total "equation") that these useful instruments have a place in the wonderful world of music.

I find that at the ripe "young age" of 75 using and enjoying these beautiful instruments has numerous advantages:
* It saves my back!
* There are virtually NO feedback problems - regardless of volume levels because they are both solid body instruments.
* They work nicely in small venues where the space for playing is at a premium.
* So far I have never had anything other than positive, enthusiastic comments about how good they sound and look.

Yes, there will ALWAYS be those that will be "anti EUB ers" and
I believe it is true that an EUB can never totally duplicate the
acoustic properties of a good URB, but I'm finding my two EUB's to be totally "soul satisfying" in every respect.

When I get a chance I may post pictures of my 2 instruments as examples of what kind of outstanding work is being done by many good luthiers.

But -- How long have you played real bass? And, do you think that this has any effect on the sound that you get out of the EUBs?

I think that's the rub.

But -- How long have you played real bass? And, do you think that this has any effect on the sound that you get out of the EUBs?

I think that's the rub.


Hi Ray,

Assuming you were referring to me, I'v'e been playing "real bass" (acoustic upright) for over 58 years. Therefore I think I have a fair idea as to the sound I'm trying to emulate with my EUB's. Good question though and thanks for the comment.

Bob McHenry

Well - if you're prepared to change your mind completely, because of a few comments on an internet forum, then it would suggest to me that you didn't have much conviction in your original idea..?

Or you are Ed's 'patsy' in disguise, colluding to show all us EUB players, the error of our ways!! ;)

No, actually, reading other threads convinced me I should get an EUB for portability.

So, yesterday, I went to a store that had an eminence and an URB side by side. First time I've played on right after the other. Althought the Eminence is GREAT, and I may eventually get one, I just couldnt let go of the fact of how great a full bodied bass felt next to me. So that, for me, sealed the deal on getting an URB. I shopped around, found a bass I liked for a great price and I bought it.

I still love the Eminence bass and I think its GREAT. But, going back and forth between the Eminence and the URB, the URB just had something that the Eminence didnt have. I dont know exactly what it is or how to explain it but I'm sure you guys know what I'm talking about.

But, going back and forth between the Eminence and the URB, the URB just had something that the Eminence didnt have. I dont know exactly what it is or how to explain it but I'm sure you guys know what I'm talking about.

Uh huh... that's exactly it! :D

Come to think about it... you know what a DB really has that an EUB doesn't? Cojones!!! I think that's my problem with EUB's, they look like they've been castrated! :p

I think that's my problem with EUB's, they look like they've been castrated! :p

hdiddy, I guess you haven't ever been told that your DB is the biggest uke they've ever seen! Smarty pants! :hyper: :D :bassist:
Have a very nice day.

I have two fully carved DB's that are old and fancy and I also own a Eminence EUB. I find in the 'gig' world (outside of classical music) the EUB has pleased everyone who hears it. It has a good sound that is direct and simple. And it's also practical because it's smaller and more durable.

Believe it or not I showed up to a pit orchestra gig that I thought warranted an EUB type of vibe and it turned out the director wanted a real DB. Whoops! Luckily it was a rehearsal and afterwards I told the conductor I would bring my DB and he said, "NO. I can hear this EUB better and it's keeping the group in sync so don't bring the 'real' one." I was kind of shocked in a way! The bottom line is the conductor felt it was the right musical choice.

What would be interesting is this:

If I brought my EUB and one of my DB's with a Realist pickup and played them for the other musicians and said 'pick the one you like best', I think most of them would choose the DB because it, in general, has a richer, more harmonically complex and thus pleasing tone. That's my guess anyway.

Also I think in general the louder the gig is, the better the EUB serves the music. The quieter, the DB wins. I'm just glad I can choose from both sides.

Well, it looks like this thread was somebodys set-up for either bashing the EUB, or damning it with faint praise.

I hope not. It's one of the same questions I've asked myself. I'm playing an original BugBass and am considering getting into Bluegrass. I'm wondering whether or not the traditionalists will bash me if I show up with the 'Bug. Certainly, it won't work for a lot of pick and grin sessions on the grass without AC, but for festivals and most gigs, that shouldn't be a real problem.

FWIW, the bassist for one of the more popular local BG bands uses a mid-70's maple/maple P-Bass and a GK-150. Another uses a NS Designs EUB. They don't seem to have problems, but they are long-established and made their name with URB.

On a personal note, I paid $1k for my slightly used original BugBass with OEM gigbag. You can't even hardly find a P.O.S. DB for that. And certainly not the same quality as the Azola. Sure, I'd rather play a "real" DB, but as a dabbler/doubler, I just can't justify doing so. Still, I have a few concerns with acceptance of the EUB in certain situations. This thread is doing just that.

Carry on thread, carry on!


dcr

Well, it looks like this thread was somebodys set-up for either bashing the EUB, or damning it with faint praise.
Based on what?

Well, it looks like this thread was somebodys set-up for either bashing the EUB, or damning it with faint praise.

Are you kidding? Someone comes on here to ask about EUB's and people give their honest opinions and it turns into EUB bashing?? I dont really think so.

The fact of the matter is I like playing both EUB's and DB's. They both have their place and both have pros and cons. While looking for information on here (the reason I was started this thread), I came to the conclusion that a DB would be the best choice for me.

I think its hardly bashing an EUB. Actually, if you havent noticed, many people are giving the EUB's PRAISE for sounding so similiar to the instrument that it is meant to emulate. Thats why its such a hard decision for some of us between the two.

So where did you end up buying your new bass?

Actually, if you havent noticed, many people are giving the EUB's PRAISE for sounding so similiar to the instrument that it is meant to emulate. Thats why its such a hard decision for some of us between the two.

Bobby,

That's true. I have noticed some honest praise too. And my sincere apologies to anyone whom I may have offended with my assesments. Really.


I wouldn't expect anybody to come right out and admit to posing or role playing in regards to their interest in EUB's though.

And Bobby, I hope your new instrument works out for you, sounds like you've found something you like alot.

Bobby,

That's true. I have noticed some honest praise too. And my sincere apologies to anyone whom I may have offended with my assesments. Really.


I wouldn't expect anybody to come right out and admit to posing or role playing in regards to their interest in EUB's though.

And Bobby, I hope your new instrument works out for you, sounds like you've found something you like alot.

Oh dont sweat it.. I took no offense to it at all as I'm sure others didn't. I just didn't want to seem like I was personally trying to bash EUB's. On the contrary, I like EUB's ALOT and with I could afford both and EUB and DB. Eventually I will probably purchase an EUB when I become old and gray and dont want to carry around the DB anymore :) But for me at this point in my musical career, I tought a DB would be the best choice. We'll see if I'm singing the same tune in a couple months after carrying it up and down stairs for gigs.

On a side note, I did purchase a double bass. Now, let me preface this by saying I tired a bit over a dozen different basses in my area. I was looking at spending around $4000. Several years ago I was close to purchasing a $13,000 BEAUTIFUL Pollman, but didnt. But, I think I have a decent ear and have some knowledge about double basses. Why am I giving this information? Because some of you may laugh at what bass I bought. Even though all of the negative comments about Carlo Robelli basses (at SamAsh), and seeing as I was having no luck finding a decent bass that I thought felt good, I went to SamAsh as one last ditch effort. Normally, I do not like purchasing from big chain stores like that. Id rather give my money to a local shop.

But, anyway, I digress. I walked into SamAsh and found a Robelli for 53% off which brought it down to $625. So, what do I have to loose to try it out? I played it and was absolutely shocked. It was noticably better than the other basses I had played. The neck felt great, how the bass sat against my body felt great, and the projection of the sound was great. I still thought it was too good to be true. So I candidly talked to a couple people about Robelli's. From what I have heard quality control has gotten better from basses that come out of China (which, if you keep up with electrics, you've probably noticed that with the Essex line of basses). And every once in a while you'll get a "factory freak". A bass that plays substantially better than the others. I truely believe I got a factory freak and fell into a great deal.

I'm trying not to get too excited because with Spring coming up and the weather changing, I hope the bass just doesnt implode or something. But so far, and after my first gig with the yesterday, I've been throughly pleased.

Im going to take it to a gig this weekend hopefully with my new Bass Master Pro pickup. I'll try to get some MP3s up if we record.

Also I think in general the louder the gig is, the better the EUB serves the music. The quieter, the DB wins. I'm just glad I can choose from both sides

I view it the same way. I do a fair amount of road work and the EUB has always won out for that. Also some gigs demand a heftier more focused tone than the pleasingly complex upright tone, so if you can't really hear the nuances of the sound, EUB also wins out in that area. Anything at lower volume levels with acoustic instruments, the DB wins hands down.

I'm playing an original BugBass and am considering getting into Bluegrass. I'm wondering whether or not the traditionalists will bash me if I show up with the 'Bug. Certainly, it won't work for a lot of pick and grin sessions on the grass without AC, but for festivals and most gigs, that shouldn't be a real problem.

Doug, I had to play my Bugbass II on bluegrass gigs for several months while my New Standard was being repaired. I got lots of kidding about it, but nobody gave me a hard time at all. It actually generated lots of favorable curiosity and attention. I think that, once they see you can play, it doesn't matter so much what instrument you're using.

...I just got a battery-powered Phil Jones Briefcase in case I need to jam with my Bug!

Doug...I just got a battery-powered Phil Jones Briefcase in case I need to jam with my Bug!

Oh great, just what I need. Something to get my GAS flowing again!

But seriously, that's a great idea. I know about the Pig Nose and Hog and those, and while I'm not a "tone Nazi" by any stretch of the word, I do prefer to use good quality gear. I might actually have to look into one, if I decide to get really deep into it.

Thanks!


dcr

And another question Mike:

How do the two compare in sound? I don't have any real experience to compare the two. From what I can recall, the Azola doesn't "bloom" like a URB -- it's a much more quick response. And of course, the "reverb/depth" isn't there, but tone-wise if you compare the two in a full-up band setting where everybody's jamming along, can you really tell the difference?

Thanks again!


dcr

Having ploughed through the posts on this thread, and several other similar threads on these boards, I'm coming to the conclusion that this whole DB vs. EUB thing is really a pretty sterile debate.

Do piano players spend ages discussing whether a Fender Rhodes is a "better" or more authentic instrument than a concert Steinway? No, because there's a recognition that each have their pros and cons and require a particular technique to get the best out of them. So it is with DBs and EUBs. One is not more of a bass than the other, they're different is all.

I think part of the issue is that electric uprights are a relatively recent innovation and in part are marketed as being "exactly like a DB but smaller (or lighter, or whatever)". Of course, nothing is quite like a DB except a DB but if it makes a good sound and does what you want it to do, who cares what you play?

I've been to all kinds of gigs over the years and heard EUBs that sounded great, and expensive hand-carved DBs that sounded utterly pants - and vice versa, which inclines me to think it's not so much which instrument you play, but how you play it and what you play on it that counts.

Of course some people will prefer one kind of instrument over the other, that's their perogative, but maybe it's time to put the vast amounts of hot air being expended on this interminable debate to a more productive use?

As regards band leaders who ask for a particular "kind" of bass, I haven't really had a problem in that regard. I feel that if they're paying me to turn up and do a gig, they're quite entitled to specify what equipment they'd like - within reason. Most people are more than happy with the EUB. Of course, in terms of getting work it does help to be sufficiently versatile to be able to offer them a choice. ;)

Thumbs up to allthumbs! :)

I can think of one other situation in which I'd use my Azola (besides road work)...I've used it on pop gigs instead of one of my slabs. I can play as loud as I need to, the bandleaders love the sound and the look, and I can play something with a 41" string length that points towards the sky, as basses are meant to, instead of a strap-on. :hmm:

As regards band leaders who ask for a particular "kind" of bass, I haven't really had a problem in that regard. I feel that if they're paying me to turn up and do a gig, they're quite entitled to specify what equipment they'd like - within reason. Most people are more than happy with the EUB. Of course, in terms of getting work it does help to be sufficiently versatile to be able to offer them a choice. ;)

I tend to agree with you ...apart from that last bit maybe...:hmm:

So - Eberhard Weber has played the same "home-made" EUB for the last few decades and manages to get plenty of work...?

I don't know if anybody has told him he needs to be more versatile...? ;)

It's not Eberhard's fault -- he just couldn't find an affordable bass in England, you see...:smug:

Ray, sounds like dishin' it out and eatin' it too........red beans and rice that is.

? That one went over my head, I'm afraid.

About Eberhard Weber: he's German, not English, and he changed EUBs a few times since the first one he modified in the 70's.
The EUB he's now playing was built by a luthier from Israel a few years ago. (name escapes me right now)

Oh, come on, I thought you had a sense of humor as well as a knowledge of the history of jazz...... I'm sure you do......just ribbin' at ya'! Off topic I suppose.

I have a bit of both -- I just missed your joke.

Francois -- I know where Eberhard is from, I was just pulling Bruce Minefield's chain....

Ray, you're gonna have a really good laugh one day! Guess I'm pullin your leg a little to hard. Trust me please, its all in the fun of being a good player. My compliments to your teaching talents, by the way.

How do the two compare in sound?... tone-wise if you compare the two in a full-up band setting where everybody's jamming along, can you really tell the difference?

I was actually quite surprised when I got my Bugbass, at how much better it sounded than I expected. No, it's not completely like a URB, but it's a very useable tone. When you get right down to it, once the amp and pickup gets involved, the playing field levels considerably. If I had to rate the amplified sound of my Azola on a scale of 1 (P-bass) to 10 (amplified URB), I'd call it an 8.5....no kidding. I have had few complaints about the EUB tone, and many compliments.

I'll tell you another story as well: If you live/work in a world of highly mediocre project studios, as I do, you'll find a good EUB has it's own advantages over an URB. I've cut 3 full-length CDs with my band now, each time slaving terribly to get a good miked URB sound (and still not really getting there). I recently had to go back into the same studio to cut a jingle for a radio/tv ad and had to use the Azola, as my Cleveland was in for repair. Ran the thing straight into the board via a Sansamp Acoustic DI and had a fine sound within 3 mins. I realize that a lot of this was due to the shortcomings of the studio, but you have to equip yourself for the environment where you exist... My world has crappy studios, lots of outdoor gigs in miserable weather, and wallpaper music performed on tiny stages. An EUB is a winner in all those cases.

I own & play a DB & an EUB - trying to compare them is an exercise in futility. It's like trying to compare a stratocaster & a Taylor acoustic. And I really don't care if either is "accepted" - there are certain gigs where you would maybe prefer one or the other because it's correct or traditional thing to do. You'd obviously try to use the instrument best suited to what you're doing, but if you're a good player you're gonna get the job done anyway.

I love my EUB because it has a low "B" & sounds awesome through a loud SVT with effects. I love my upright too - especially in the studio. Apples & oranges.

That being said - I think you need to talk to the people you're working with (gig, session, whatever) and make sure you're giving them what they want...if you want to keep getting the calls. ;)

I

Since I don't do sessions, and nobody around plays URB/EUB, I get plenty of "wow" appeal when the 'Bug shows up. Nobody else does anything like it, so getting/keeping that gig is sort of a moot point. There ain't no gig like that in my world. Like I said previously, I'm thinking about branching into bluegrass, but right now when I'm gigging, it's 3-4 piece lounge stuff to classic rock, blues, and country. J-Bass/MTD/Cirrus/P-Bass/StingRay and all fivers is where I live right now. And they all fit fine. Since I carry two [usually very different]basses, I've got a wide variety of tones for what I'm doing. It's what I'm considering getting into that I'm concerned with. But it sounds like the Azola will get me pretty darn close. At least, I'll sound as good as that craptastic Chinese bass with a SM-58 wrapped in a rag and stuffed under the tailpiece that showed up at our local festival last year!

Mike, glad to hear your praise for the SansAmp Acoustic Driver. That's what I'm using to drive the 'Bug for impedence matching into my amp. Bought mine years ago over the Bass Driver because the sweepable mid seemed like it would be more useful in a variety of settings.

Thanks to all for the info!

dcr

If I had to rate the amplified sound of my Azola on a scale of 1 (P-bass) to 10 (amplified URB), I'd call it an 8.5....no kidding.


Having had a Bug for several years part of me wants to agree wholeheartedly and another part wants to scream not to be so quick to compare apples and oranges. In the time I had mine I found that I and other bass players were by far the hardest critics in comparing it to the "real" bass, that other players and the audience were very often happy that it sounded good, looked cool and left it at that.

Like Ed was pointing to earlier in this thread I did eventually decide that my voice needed an acoustic instrument (helped along by a spectacularly horrible repair by Brian Hoover) and being fundamentally monogamous where basses are concerned I sold it.

jeff
van.bc.ca

Just to set things straight:

Around 1971 or so Weber found a battered Grazioso Arco EUB (a Framus Triumph lookalike made in Prague ca 1960) in an antiques/curious shop. He bought it, had it refinished, converted to 5-string (high C - he´s a cellist originally) and added a better magnetic pickup and an Underwood. When this bass broke down, he had Munich violinmaker Paul Lijsen make him a replica, however improved, with a.o. a Wlson pickup. Some ten years ago, prior to a gig in Tel Aviv, Weber´s Lijsen bass got damaged by the airline so he took it to Israeli luthier Eyal Vodnizky for a quick fix. Thus, Eyal offered to build Weber a new and better bass, which he did. The Eyal bass, also a 5-string, has a semi-hollow body, the Wilson pickup and a custom-made magnetic pickup.

Weber uses a number of digital FX units, W Woods amps (two for stereo) and home made cabinets with JBL 15" speakers.

Mikael

Thanks for the detailed info Mikael!
You now know why I was asking you about the Weber interview and Weber's current EUB maker! :)

I saw Eberhard Weber recently (23 November 2004) with Jan Garbarek's quartet and I was sitting in the front row, right in the middle - right in front of him!!

So I was able to get a very good view of his bass, which looked fairly old and had the distinctive Double Bass neck and scroll joined to a newer body - it looked exactly like the photos of his bass on the ECM recordings I own!

I assumed it was the original, but I suppose it's the replica made for him?

Well, I haven´t talked to Eberhard in a while. But if the bass you saw was solid, it´s the Lijsen bass, if it was hollowbody and had a small soundhole under the strings, it´s the Vodnizky. Perhaps the newer bass is in for service, so he took out his old bass.
I can add that Eberhard isn´t picky when it comes to strings. When Eyal asked him what strings he wanted on the new bass, he didn´t know what he had on his old bass! So Eyal went for a set of Spirocores, which Eberhard was apparently happy with!

I can add that Eberhard isn´t picky when it comes to strings. When Eyal asked him what strings he wanted on the new bass, he didn´t know what he had on his old bass! So Eyal went for a set of Spirocores, which Eberhard was apparently happy with!

That's interesting! Seems like once you get a good set of strings that handle favorably, you can use 'em 'til they just about break if you like.....One of the benefits of using high quality URB strings that last a long time, and good/flexable electronics.
:)

Well - all these details are "interesting" - but actually irrelevant to the point I was making!! ;)

So,my point was that I doubt anybody is saying to Eberhard Weber - .."you need to be more versatile - you need to play a "proper" DB as well!! That way you'll get more gigs!! :D

Didn't he play a bit of DB on the "Little Movements" record? It least it sounded that way to me at the time it was released, and it sounded darn good as I recall. Maybe my memory is failing. :cool:
________________________________________________
There are only two kinds of music, Country, and Western ;)

Here's an interesting quote from a 2002 interview :


"Interviewer:
Tell me about the factors in your decision to transition from double bass to the electric upright.

Eberhard Weber:

The regular bass doesn't have many possibilities. The reason I switched to electric bass is because music became very loud in the late '60s and the double bass couldn't be heard anymore. I realized I could put pick-ups on my double bass, but found out when you play at a certain volume, you suffer from feedback because of resonance from the body. So, it was only logical to find an instrument which has no feedback. There was a solid body I saw in an antique shop. It was totally broken but I got it repaired. I added a pick-up and thought "From now on, this is my instrument." I discovered that it was absolutely wrong because I still played the way I played on the double bass.

Initially, I didn't change the attitude with the electric bass. It took one year before I felt comfortable on this kind of instrument. I found you are a different bass player because now you can lead. You can tell people where to go onstage which you couldn't do before. The drummer and trumpeter could always lead, but the bass player couldn't simply because of volume. But even though you can put an amplifier on double bass and it can play loud, it still cannot lead because it still has this kind of background-ish sound that is not meant to lead. But with the instrument I have, you can play background, in the middle or foreground. Whatever you do, it can be heard. So they have to deal with you. Many musicians don't like that, certainly not the conservative ones.

Frankly spoken, the bass is kind of a silly instrument. How can someone pick an instrument that is not meant to play solos or be a leader? Even Charlie Mingus—he was an excellent bass player, but he didn't lead from his bass, but from himself, from his ego. And of course, after I had discovered the kind of electrical bass I use now, I noticed that I can also lead acoustically in terms of sound with the bass, in a way that even Mingus couldn't. When someone played full force in his time with the bass, you couldn't hear it. Nowadays, you can do whatever you want on the bass or any instrument. Sometimes, when I play with a German all-star group which does a sort of jazzy music, the front line complains about my volume because they're not used to hearing the bass. So, I'm in between the lines or in between the seats as they say in Germany. [laughs]"

Eberhard Weber's excerpt:
Sometimes, when I play with a German all-star group which does a sort of jazzy music, the front line complains about my volume because they're not used to hearing the bass. So, I'm in between the lines or in between the seats as they say in Germany. [laughs]"
I guess he was refering to the United Jazz + Rock Ensemble (http://www.ujre.net/) here.
I think this ensemble ended in 2002.
At the end, Dave King was the bass player instead of Eberhard.
More info anyone?

Didn't he play a bit of DB on the "Little Movements" record? It least it sounded that way to me at the time it was released, and it sounded darn good as I recall. Maybe my memory is failing.

If you want to hear some smoking DB from Weber, check out Intercontinental, a classic Joe Pass side. It's actual jazz by any likely definition, IMO.

If you want to hear some smoking DB from Weber, check out Intercontinental, a classic Joe Pass side. It's actual jazz by any likely definition, IMO.
Indeed a fantastic record!
Eberhard in a style he doesn't play anymore since a long time!
Whan was this recorded? Mid-70's I guess?

Indeed a fantastic record!
Eberhard in a style he doesn't play anymore since a long time!
Whan was this recorded? Mid-70's I guess?

1970. I actually was listening to this album a few years before I became aware of Weber, and was surprised to find out it was the same guy who played on all those ECM sides.

So - you're talking about what he did 30 years ago!!

It's pretty clear that today, he only plays EUB and gets plenty of gigs!! ;)

Well - all these details are "interesting" - but actually irrelevant to the point I was making!! ;)

So,my point was that I doubt anybody is saying to Eberhard Weber - .."you need to be more versatile - you need to play a "proper" DB as well!! That way you'll get more gigs!! :D

I don't suppose they are, but then again he is Eberhard Weber. I've also no doubt that the likes of Christian McBride, Ron Carter, Stanley Clarke, Dave Holland, Rufus Reid etc etc get calls because of who they are and the qualities they'll bring to a gig or a session - not because they happen to be able to play (or not) a particular variety of bass. Probably they also get enough calls to be able to pick and choose their gigs. I guess most players don't enjoy that happy state of affairs, though. :hmm:

So the point I was making when I raised the question of "versatility" a few posts ago was merely that for those of us in a less exalted position in the bass firmament it can be helpful to be able to offer electric or upright, and maybe have a stab at trying to play it in more than one style.

Of course, that might be counterproductive if you can only half play in six styles. So it might be more helpful to be known for doing one thing excellently rather then loads of things not very well.

FWIW I am a seasoned UB and BG player. (22 years on both) I am building my own EUB because the UB does not cut it with the loud jazz band I play with. After several pickups and a ton of feed back. It was better after putting a K+K bassmax and preamp on it, though, it never produced the sound I wanted it to. I changed strings several times and took it to a local luthier MANY times for adjustments. Could not get it dialed in. So, I am going to build my own EUB that really kicks ass.

Plus, the EUB can be put in a custom made flight case for ease of travel and no oversized shipping or transport charges.

As I am sure many of you know, airlines make you pay for an extra seat. That is if they let you bring a UB on at all.

If the EUB I build sucks, I'll likely buy an Eminence also.

Take a listen to the Messenger http://www.messengerbass.com/sounds.html

Sounds great to me! I believe it has the Barbera bridge in it.

Tis is how UB should sound. At least to my ear.

I got a call for an intimate outdoor jazz trio gig - vocal, guitar and bass. I found out that the club owner specifically requested an upright bass. In the past, I rented a double bass for a couple of years and gigged with it extensively, but I do not have a double bass at this time. So I pulled out my older BSX Series 2000 which has piezo and magnetic pickups and went to the gig.

I generally agree that the louder the gig is, the more useful the EUB is, tonewise. But I have to say that last night, on a very quiet, intimate gig with no percussion, my EUB sounded FANTASTIC. Things came together with minimal tweaking, and the response on the instrument was so good, that it really brought out the best in my playing. I had plenty of bottom end, but with nice midrange growl and a clarity that was not "guitar-like." I also had a nice "thump" working; the sustain was not excessive at that volume. I was using spirocore solo strings tuned down to orchestra pitch. It was really neat how great the EUB sounded in that setting. The crowd was very receptive to the trio.

In the end, the club owner was thrilled with the performance and definitely wants the group back for more dates. So in this instance, the EUB was "upright-ish enough." I think the best thing to do is to find an instrument and tone that works for you, and then really commit to it. Then your real personality will come through in your playing. Ultimately, that is what people will respond to.

The more I gig with my BugBass through Clarus/Wizzy, the more I think I'll avoid bringing the URB to another gig.

Besides the portability factor and compact footprint, the sound is more focused in most gig settings where I'd be fighting at least a bit of ringing from the URB at gig volume in proximity to the amp in tight quarters.

This is a very interesting discussion.

Several years ago I ordered a BSX Allegro. I worked with it pretty seriously for about a year, using it as a substitute for URB at venues with poor acoustics or with dreadful load-ins.

I chose the BSX because it had a very URB-like look and feel. Dino does make some incredible instruments from right here in Pgh.

Bottom line was...I could never get a tone that I liked (and I own some nice amps) and I could never get comfortable with it...especially considering the odd angled "tummy rest". I even had one custom made and it still felt wrong.

To answer the initial question of this post...did certain established jazz musicians in town poo poo the instrument...yes indeed. Did I lose gigs? Mmm...probably not, but I was encouraged by several trusted mentors to bring the "real" bass whenever possible.

There is an apples/oranges factor. Often times a pianist will have to bring a keyboard because there's no piano on location. Does a "real" piano sound better than the keyboard? Absolutely. One exception is when the piano is horribly out of tune!

A big problem I had with my EUB was what to do with it when on break. It didn't lie down nicely...so I had to lug the heavy tripod stand along as well. This meant bringing an EXTRA thing just to set the bass down...and I bought the darn thing to try and make things easier on myself!

All this being said...I'm still hoping to find an EUB that fits me. I would love to have one for travel, I'd love to have one for small stages, I'd love to use one on pop & variety gigs, I'd love to have one when the weather is bad, and I'd love to have serious volume power in rock/concert/dance situations.

Good luck...until I find the right one, I'll keep shedding my tunes so I don't have to lug my "Real" Books around anymore!

I saw Reginald Veal playing an EUB the other night at an outdoor concert with Cassandra Wilson. Couldn't really tell but it looked like the Yamaha silent bass - a stick bass with the simulated bouts. The bass wasn't in the mix that well but what I did hear sounded nice- the playing was great obviously. It fit in with Cassandra's world/jazz vibe nicely.

My Ergo 7 string is working out well for me. I use it on loud gigs, nobody seems to complain. The only bad feedback I have had is from a clarinetist who hates me anyway.
I find I am actually getting requests for it. Two of my gigs this month the leaders specifically asked for it.
It has a beautiful tone, it is fun to play I still love to play my acoustic bass more but it is not a bummer when I use the Ergo instead - and the high F is a blast!

I play a 5 string KYDD and it only gave me more gigs. People seem to be amazed by the sound of it, but particularly by the way it looks.

I play afro-cuban music and jazz with it and the tone seems to fit in both styles of music really well.

I wonder about this. I have a Kydd, and people ALWAYS ask about it curiously when I play it. It definitely gets peoples' attention.

As bandleaders go, I suspect that there are a few who are not entirely convinced. That was part of the reason I bought a real upright. I then discovered that I was wrong about those bandleaders not being crazy about the EUB. In fact, they weren't crazy about my mediocre playing, on either instrument.

I will probably get rid of my EUB. When I travel, it's always to play electric, anyway (for now). I am not completely comfortable on the Kydd, either, so a different make may suit me better. The fingerboard is flat as a pancake, which is probably nice if you are an electric player who wants an easy transition to EUB.