Hi folks,

a complete double bass newbie here. I am an electric bass player with no prior upright experience. I have decided to plunge into the double bass area to start playing some bebop jazz gigs (due to the prodding of my wife)...

I am keen on acquiring a Zeta Crossover bass (electric upright) as I don't have the space for a real acoustic double bass; besides shipping to Willemstad, Curacao will surely cost a fortune.

Any comments will be greatly appreciated.

As well, I would appreciate recommendations on beginner bass lessons/books.

masha danki,

the island man

:

Good grief! Is there a way to say 'double bass' in Papamiento?

I have a Zeta (http://www.k1wd.com/music/bass/Zeta_PB304.jpg ), but when I tried a REAL double-bass (http://www.k1wd.com/music/bass/URB.jpg), I was immediately hooked, and would recommend anyone who was serious about the double-bass, not to bother with the intermediate step, and to go straight for the real thing. The difference is like night and day!

Step 1:
Get a good teacher

Step 2:
Do you have a good teacher yet?

If the answer to 2 is "no", then go to step 1

;>


- Wil

as I have mentioned, no space for the real thing, that's why I prefer an EUB right now...

I don't care at all for EUB's, but the EUB of choice on this board seems to be the Eminence. Search in the "Basses" (DB) archives and you'll find an entire thread devoted to it.

Good luck.

The Zeta crossover is NOT an EUB. It's a fretless bass guitar rigged so that you can play it in an upright position.

If you're serious about making the move to db from bg, first off you will want a teacher. Second off, you'll find that it's easier than you think to find the space for a DB. I'd make the argument, in fact, that a DB is less of a space hog than BG, once you take into account the need for an amp.

After all, I'm playing DB at a church gig tomorrow partly because I didn't want to lug the BG stuff there.

-dh

If you decide to go the EUB route, I'd recommend something with a more traditional 40-42" scale, so that the eventual transition to a full acoustic won't be too difficult. The Crossover, as far as I can recall, is a 34" instrument.

If you're pressed for space, I notice that www.stringbass.com is selling one of those new shallow-bodied "fusion" Meisels. Seems like a good deal for the price (about twice the wood for half the price of an Eminence) but I have no idea how it sounds or how well it's built. Caveat Emptor.

Like Christopher, I would recommend trying an EUB that is scaled like a DB. Have you looked at or tried the Yamaha Silent Bass?

ms

Aria makes EUB's, and the top model is quite good, and very reasonably priced compared to the likes of Eminence, Carruthers, Fichter, NS, etc. I have one Which I use if I'm travelling out of town.

To add to that, my Aria has both piezo and magnetic pickups and comprehensive electronics. By using different combinations thereof, I can make my EUB sound like an EUB, a fretless bass, or an acoustic upright. Before I get a deluge of protest from people saying "acoustic? Impossible!" , I might add that I also have a German carved top round back acoustic with Barbera pickup/bridge, and YES, the EUB does sound better, and that's not just my opinion, but the opinion of people who specifically ask for the EUB when booking me for a gig. In fact my poor old acoustic never gets used any more, so I might sell it one of these days.

Originally posted by Marty Forrer
To add to that, my Aria has both piezo and magnetic pickups and comprehensive electronics. By using different combinations thereof, I can make my EUB sound like an EUB, a fretless bass, or an acoustic upright. Before I get a deluge of protest from people saying "acoustic? Impossible!" , I might add that I also have a German carved top round back acoustic with Barbera pickup/bridge, and YES, the EUB does sound better, and that's not just my opinion, but the opinion of people who specifically ask for the EUB when booking me for a gig. In fact my poor old acoustic never gets used any more, so I might sell it one of these days.

Hey, more power to you, man - but I think I'll wait until I see even one major orchestra replace their DB section with EUBs before I agree with you... ;>

- Wil

Originally posted by Wil Davis
Hey, more power to you, man - but I think I'll wait until I see even one major orchestra replace their DB section with EUBs before I agree with you...

But you're forgetting the classical music prejudice against amplification. Sharon Isbin, who plays classical guitar, only managed to get around this by having all of her electronics completely hidden, including using wireless transmission between the guitar and the (hidden) sound system. If something like classical guitar (which really requires amplification to compete with an orchestra) can't get a pass on amplification, then a bass section has no hope in the foreseeable future, regardless of what it might sound like.

-dh

Actually, there is a guy playing EUB with a major orchestra, he's the solo bassist and section leader. I saw a photo of the orchestra playing, and there's this EUB played by a guy in tux. Trouble is, I saw it in a Bass Player Mag that I was riffing thru in a bookstore, so I've forgotten his name, and the name of the orchestra. Oh, well.

Could it be Laurence Mollerup?

Originally posted by Marty Forrer
Actually, there is a guy playing EUB with a major orchestra, he's the solo bassist and section leader. I saw a photo of the orchestra playing, and there's this EUB played by a guy in tux. Trouble is, I saw it in a Bass Player Mag that I was riffing thru in a bookstore, so I've forgotten his name, and the name of the orchestra. Oh, well.

I know this is an ancient thread, but: the guy in that picture (I forget his name--Francois is right, I think) plays bass with Peter Nero's trio. He isn't actually in that bass section, he's in the "jazz" trio that is playing with the accompaniment of the orchestra. Someday, though, I'm sure that Yamaha will assemble an orchestra made entirely of their "silent" instruments, if just for a photo shoot...

Well this is where I actually disagree with ED - a first!;) - I have been having great fun with my NS EUB and love the sound of it! In fact it is exactly the sound I hear in my head - and it is so much easier to get into and play than any "real" DBs I tried.

So - maybe my ear for DB isn't that good, but growing up with Weather Report albums, as the first Jazz I ever heard - to me the bass sounds on "I Sing the Body Electric", "Mysterious Traveller" etc were my introduction to the art and the idea for sound/tone that I always had.

Like others (possibly?) I don't like bowed DB in Jazz and prefer the more sustained pizz sound that approaches fretless bass - I played fretless BG for several years in the 1980s!

I have been playing along with a video titled (ironically-enough!) "Essential Techniques for Acoustic Bass" by Todd Phillips and the sound I hear when I play what he does, sounds to my ears just like the sounds coming out of the speakers from his Acoustic bass! Or as close as I can distinguish?

I get the sound I want, no callouses, no difficulty with playing or intonation and as I only have a small flat in the middle of a busy city, plus a small car; I have all the benefits with none of the downside of a "real" bass - so DBers I have played with in Jazz workshops have had problems with feedback, muffled indistinct sound and playing anything above the octave - amongst other things.

The only reason left that I can think of for not playing an EUB, is that I feel guilty about how easy it seems to be and I feel it ought to require more effort!! :D

Hmmm...was that an admission that you only play DB because it looks cool or was it a swinging racist attack on the Welsh!??

I am off to Wales in a few weeks time - I have even bought a bass myself in Wales - but it was a bit of a plank! ;)

I could tell them all about this guy in New York who think they are all....... :D

I've given up comparing my bass to my EUB or my slabs; it's futile. My bass has about a million times more depth, more potential music inside it than all of my EUB's and slabs put together. That's just how it is for me, individual mileage may vary. The EUB is for touring, so that I don't have to deal with a badly set up bass shaped object on the road. It's a great bass. The slabs are for work that calls for them, and I enjoy them very much. Virtually everyone I play with prefers the sound of the DB.

Originally posted by Marcus Johnson
...snip
Virtually everyone I play with prefers the sound of the DB.

your DB, or DBs in general - c'mon Marcus, 'fess up - inquiring minds want to know... ;)

Hmm, maybe I should rephrase that. I meant that most people prefer it when I play DB, and that's probably because most of the calls I get are for jazz, classical, or Hawaiian music. I only play URB and slab about 10% of the time these days. I'm sure that my enthusiasm for DB comes out in my playing, just as Marcus Miller's playing reflects his love for electric bass.

Originally posted by Ed Fuqua

You can ask all the Wale-landers why they are so pale and freakishly tall....

I know the answer to that one - it's because they all live in very deep valleys where it rains every day! Even in the middle of July/August!!

It can be quite atractive in the women...think Galadriel! ;)

They all sing as well - comes from having to communicate across the valleys.....


Back to the topic, I was trying to explain that my enthusiasms for sound probaly come from the fact that I started listening to music in the 1970s . I have talked to some Jazz DB teachers and they say - listen to the classic records in your collection for inspiration - of course they started listening to great Jazz DB players. But I was listening to Jaco, Marcus, Stanley, Alphonso etc.

Me too, Bruce; we must be of about the same vintage. Actually, I recall Stanley playing one of the first EUB's I ever saw, back when the choices were pretty slim. The guy that really threw me for a loop was Eberhard Weber, who played a homemade EUB in his quartet with Charlie Mariano. That was a cool band.

I bought a new amp yesterday for my BG... and tried out a few leccy uprights in the shop. one was indeed just like a fretless BG but upright (real low action) and the other was more like an electric double bass, the strings were about an inch off the board up above where the '12th fret' would be!

I had a play on the EUB and found it relatively easy to play physically. I expect my intonation was nausiating, but that's another story!

I was really intregued by the EUB, it sounded so nice and wasn't too hard to play. Would you guys recommend one of these?... are they good as a starting point, are they a totally differnt intstrument? Bruce - do you intend to move to real DB at somepoint or is the EUB your thing?

what's the gernal opinion of them? Are they played alot by professionals - what recordings can i hear one played on?

Just interested cause I could have played this thing all day!

hold fire on that.. i just found a post which pretty much answered my questions.

Originally posted by Howard K
I bought a new amp yesterday for my BG... and tried out a few leccy uprights in the shop. one was indeed just like a fretless BG but upright (real low action) and the other was more like an electric double bass, the strings were about an inch off the board up above where the '12th fret' would be!

I had a play on the EUB and found it relatively easy to play physically. I expect my intonation was nausiating, but that's another story!

I was really intregued by the EUB, it sounded so nice and wasn't too hard to play. Would you guys recommend one of these?... are they good as a starting point, are they a totally differnt intstrument? Bruce - do you intend to move to real DB at somepoint or is the EUB your thing?


Hmmm..don't know! I think that when I am very careful about how I play it - i.e. I am relaxed and accurate it sounds great and very like an amplified DB. But - generally these "ideal" conditions only prevail in private practise - live gigs and I'm all over the place and just about hanging on with the "sound" shot to pieces.

Ask me again in a few years! ;)

As to your other question - a lot of "rock" professionals have taken them up - Tony Levin, Les Claypool, Pino Palladino etc. The only Jazz pro who currently plays one that I know of, is Eberhard Weber - but he does get the call from Jan Garbarek!

Originally posted by Bruce Lindfield

The only Jazz pro who currently plays one that I know of, is Eberhard Weber - but he does get the call from Jan Garbarek!
Well, EB began to play EUB well before he met JG!
He had and still has more things running than playing with him.
In my opinion, Garbarek has nothing to do with Weber's choice of the EUB.
EB toured a lot with Garbarek though, if that's what you meant.

I didn't mean that Garbarek asked him to play this - just that Howard was asking for "professionals" who play EUB and his name was the only one who sprang to mind in the "Jazz" field.

I was just thinking though, that it was a pretty good gig to land - probably the most lucrative in Europe, so he (Weber) was doing alright from a "professional" point of view, playing EUB! ;)

True.
Another well known EUB Jazz player is David Friesen.
(even more in the Jazz idiom than Weber, IMO)

Originally posted by francois
True.
Another well known EUB Jazz player is David Friesen.


Not a name I've heard - I would be interested in hearing a recording where he plays straight-ahead Jazz with EUB - any recommendations?

I know I could look on the net for CDs but this won't necessarily tell me where he plays EUB or if they are any good! ;)

isn't that guy doing the mini tour with michael manring and steve lawson is november? - i guess he wont be playing straigth jazz tho?..?

Does Buster williams play one?

Originally posted by Bruce Lindfield


Not a name I've heard - I would be interested in hearing a recording where he plays straight-ahead Jazz with EUB - any recommendations?

I know I could look on the net for CDs but this won't necessarily tell me where he plays EUB or if they are any good! ;)
Check his web site http://www.davidfriesen.net/ for lots of information.
His EUB is the Hemage Bass. (David also plays AUB on several records)
My first Friesen record, on which he plays the Oregon Bass EUB was "Amber skies". (features Chick Corea, Airto Moreira, Joe Henderson, Paul Horn, Paul Motian).
See http://www.interq.or.jp/blue/sudo/Quest/cards/D/DavidFriesen/AmberSkies_x.html.

I got to "shadow" Dave for a week during the Aebersold camps (I'm in transition from Piano faculty to Bass faculty, and was allowed to soak up the bass fac vibe by shadowing Dave and Lynn Seaton for a week each during master classes), and he didn't touch an EUB all week. In fact, he even went so far as to tell the bass guitarists in the master classes that he couldn't help them with any technique issues AT ALL because he doesn't play that instrument. I have his latest trio disc, Name of a Woman, and he plays DB on the entire record. It's a good sounding double disc with a lot of good spontaneous synergy, and pianist Randy Porter plays his *SS off throughout.

Hopping in a bit late here. . .

But to answer Francois' question, nope it wasn't me playing the EURB in the picture. I have played them a few times, and I have played with orchestras, but never at the same time.

My feeling on EURBs is that they are great for touring and late night practice, but they don't feel or sound right to me. I like fretted 6-string electric bass and double bass better, and the EURB seems to be in between.

Laurence Mollerup

RE: EUB

I'm no expert, but I got the chance to play at least a half dozen different "popsicles" at the NAMM show a couple of years ago.

Without exception, they all just felt "dead" in my hands. Maybe it was the strings or the way they were set up, but I felt no connection with these instruments at all. Even my Fender Jazz bass gives me some kind of physical response under my fingers that makes it enjoyable to play (kind of).

Later, I did try the Eminence and found it more satisfying to play. But as a main axe -- no way.

This is in response to any of you out there that "wouldn't be caught dead playing a popsicle"
I am about embark upon a trip to the Mid-East to begin a long term engagement playing jazz in a fine hotel.
However, I have just learned that my new employer has decided that $1342 fee (one way) for flying my double bass in it's anvil style road case (82"x35"x21") via air cargo is more than they would care to spend.
I'm disapointed, to say the least, but nevertheless relieved that I happen to own a John Carruthers Sub-1. No, it dosn't sound exactly like my double bass but does indeed sound close enough like a double bass to fool most people, most of the time. Even many other musicians!
I'll miss the sound, feel and vibe of my double bass very much, but will enjoy playing the Carruthers, I've had it for seven years now and have come to enjoy it for what it is, a good subsitute for a double bass, not a replacement, hence the it's title, Sub-1.
I'd like to think that I'm so comitted to the double bass that I'd be willing to absorb the cost of shiping the instument myself, but that would greatly reduce my profit for the gig. Yes, real double bass players play real double basses but most real double bass players are real men (not to slight any of the fine women playing the instrument, please forgive me) who have real resposibilities, like bills, families to feed, child support payments, rent or morgages.
I don't play music for money, I play because I love music, and money comes to me because I'm doing something I love. I play the "real bass", no matter if it's a double bass, bass guitar or "electric popsicle stick" they are all "real basses" to me, because I'm a "real bass player" who lives in the "real world". So to all you self styled purists out there, "get real".

Originally posted by Mike Carr
I don't play music for money, I play because I love music, and money comes to me because I'm doing something I love. I play the "real bass", no matter if it's a double bass, bass guitar or "electric popsicle stick" they are all "real basses" to me, because I'm a "real bass player" who lives in the "real world". So to all you self styled purists out there, "get real".



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http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=32812

I checked out a Dave Friesen discography and discovered that he's also recorded with Mal Waldron, Julian Priester, Jim Pepper, and Joe Henderson, to name a few. I've only heard him live in duos with John Stowell, so some straightahead stuff would be interesting to me.

Chris,
I guess I must have been "real" frustrated when I posted last time. Must have been because of all the problems I encountered trying to get my double bass shipped out the U.S. to the Mid-East.
Used to be easy enough to ship a bass, you could just go to a frieght forwarder or cargo company and as long as someone was willing to pay the bill, you could ship without having to worry about much more than someone driving a fork lift thru your flight case!
But I have found since 9-11 cargo companies in the U.S. are now unwilling to pickup cargo from anyone who is not a "know shipper". They will not pickup from individuals, only from companies. When I offered to sign a declaration document stating who I was, and what I intended to ship I was told one had to have had "19 concectutive shipments in the last two years with the company in order to be considered a known shipper".
Hey, I'm shipping a bass, not nukes, bombs or weapons of mass destuction, and my bass isn't one of the cheap Chemora's that you see on E-Bay that explodes on contact so no one is put at risk.
So I found that the only way I could have shipped it was to find a frieght forwarder that way willing to write it up as a "special deal for an employee of the company" and then my employer would have been grossly overcharged for this "service". $1342, each way!
I guess the "real" reason I started all of this is to give all of you the heads up regarding dealing with flying with double basses. It's getting harder to do these days. Forget about even trying to buy a seat for one! British Airways told me the only way I'd be allowed to bring my bass on the plane with me would be if I purchased five seats, an entire row to lay the bass down on to. They refused to allow it to be placed "Rufus Reid Style" as depicted in "The Evolving Bassist".
So I'll playing my E.U.B. Guess I'll have to start watching what I eat too, all those extra pounds I'll put on over Thanksgiving weekend don't show so much when I play my double bass!

I have been playing along with a video titled (ironically-enough!) "Essential Techniques for Acoustic Bass" by Todd Phillips and the sound I hear when I play what he does, sounds to my ears just like the sounds coming out of the speakers from his Acoustic bass!


Bruce, could you pop on over to this thread (http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?t=186592) and tell us what you think of the video series?

If your are going to get a EUB, get a decent one. A Zeta Crossover is just like a bass guitar. Might as well geta fender and put an endpin on it. If your are going to get a Zeta, get a Strados Fusion. I have, however, vowed to turn everyone off from th Zeta brand as I can. The company has poor customer service, and the product isnt all that great. It took them a year and a half to build my bass. I would go for sumthing like the AZOLA BUgbass or an Eminince.
Hope this helps.

I use a BSX Allegro in a 16 piece swing band and also in a duo setting with a Guitar player I play it through an AI Contra. I have never had feedback problems. The only thing you have to watch out for is overtones on the open strings when the amp is cranked up.You learn to "stop" them with your hand. Dino claims that the SWR amps work better with the Allego. I tgried Workingman's 12 and it didn't sound any better to me.I also play a Bohemian upright with a Gage realist through the Contra and it works for the 16 piece band also. It just depends on if I feel like packing the big Bass around on that particular gig. The BSX is a very "authentic" sounding Bass. The sound you get depends on how you tweak the trim pots. There is one for each string and also a high, mid and low trim pot. BSX claims that Santo Debriani and Brian Bromberg both own BSX EUB's. :hyper:

Your own ears and hands are the best judge.
Ditto!
:)