Rigth now i'm using three fingers for "plucking" the strings, finger 2, 3 and 4 (index finger, middle and ring). No matter what i do, it makes playing 32th note power metal stuff a bit difficoult in the long run, after 2-3 minutes my fingers are so tired i miss a note and get out of the beat.

Therefore, i'm wondering if someone is using four fingers (index, middle, ring, little finger)? I've tried to do it, but it becomes ackward since my little finger is an inch shorter than the rest.

Any replies or advice is appreciated,
-Erlend

Usually when my fingers get tired, it's because I'm playing too hard because I'm not loud enough and I'm trying to be louder using my fingers instead of my volume knobs. Could this be a possible problem/reason for your finger tiredness?

Power metal? use all four i guess

Well, i play with a pretty ligth touch, and i'm pretty sure that isn't the problem. ;).

Thanks for the advice, but my question was if anyone played with 4 fingers? Do you think it could be done?

Therefore, i'm wondering if someone is using four fingers (index, middle, ring, little finger)? I've tried to do it, but it becomes ackward since my little finger is an inch shorter than the rest.


I think you just answered your own question. That's what prevented me from using it. It's easy on a guitar because your hand is flatter across the strings. Not so easy when the hand is perpendicular to the strings.

I was thinking that if i maybe "curved" my secound, third and fourth fingers more, it migth worked out?

Do anyone know if someone is doing this?

Well, i play with a pretty ligth touch, and i'm pretty sure that isn't the problem. ;).

Thanks for the advice, but my question was if anyone played with 4 fingers? Do you think it could be done?

Yes, there are-but instead of using their pinky (although there are some that use that as well), players like Matt Garrison use their thumb for their fourth finger. Using your thumb also helps in skipping strings, as it's naturally hinged differently so it can comfortably pluck lower strings while your other fingers pluck higher.

Check out this thread:
Matt Garrison technique (http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?t=177132&highlight=matt+garrison) . TBer Mike Flynn has been working on the technique and has some videos of him executing it. I'm working on it myself right now.

I was thinking that if i maybe "curved" my secound, third and fourth fingers more, it migth worked out?

I find that curving my fingers more helps, but I've never worked up any real speed with the technique. I use my pinky sometimes because I like the feeling of using all five plucking fingers. I find the thumb more useful.

I use all 4 fingers (pinky, not thumb) sometimes when I play fast stuff like Fight Fire With Fire or Damage, Inc., but a)it is awkward, b) I only hit the string with my pinky about 3/4 of the time, and c), it doesn't make as big of a difference as you might think, since your pinky is probably fairly weak compared to the rest of your fingers.

I've never been able to use my pinky. I cut it pretty bad working on a car when I was a kid and it's been weak ever since. And I have never seen anyone play who did. I would say just keep at it and try to relax - don't tense. Practice slower when your by yourself and work up to speed.
That's what I had to do playing power punk pop. You'll get there no prob!

Hi there
I use all my 4 fingers...its a long distance run to master this style but then.... :hyper: :hyper: :hyper:

I don't fully see the point of using more than 2 fingers. When I was younger I'd go for 3 for the sake of wanting to be flashier and thinking that would make me faster. It really didn't.
I find for even solid speed, 2 is perfect, keeps everything nice and simple. Really in the amount of split seconds it takes to get your ring finger and pinky going in the sequence, you're just as well of to work on the speed of 2 fingers back and forth.
I find now for a lot of things, I can use just my index finger with enough speed. Almost like a pick I guess.
Though I like 3 fingers for a quick triplet when I need one.

Check out the Matt Garrison Live CD/DVD. Some nice pointers.

I don't fully see the point of using more than 2 fingers.

Less effort-if you use four fingers instead of two, you exert half as much effort on your two fingers and can go twice as fast than to just play with the two fingers (not that four fingers is necessarily faster- I mean that you can get four notes played quickly by using four fingers and not have to move each finger very fast, but for the same four notes to be played as quickly with two, you need to move those two twice as fast).

And the main one is probably string skipping. With Gary Willis' three finger approach, he always has a third finger waiting on the string above the one he's playing, so he can ascend far more quickly and cleanly than most can with two fingers. With a three or four finger approach using your thumb, you can skip strings far quicker because of the thumb hinging below your other fingers, allowing it to comfortably play lower strings while your other fingers play higher ones, and you can assign each finger to play an individual string for very fast string skipping runs. There's one part on Herbie Hancock's live dvd during Dolphin Dance where Matt Garrison plays a really badass, very fast string skipping part that I don't think could be played with two fingers.

I've been working very hard at incorporating my thumb and ring into my standard plucking technique for a couple months now, after playing standard two fingers for over nine years. Getting the ring to work evenly is tricky, but my thumb is definitely becoming very natural now.

+ 1 for checking out Garrison on that Herbie DVD - his use of this is so subtle and funky - he's taken it to a very high level - but he did start doing this back in about 1995 - so go figure - plus he's an amazing musician anyway. I'll say have control over the way he plays it but I've a lot of work to do - I made a stab at trying to explain how it works on my site http://www.munkio.com/music/music_lessons.html - but I think there are so many variations on this stuff - if all you want to do is play fast 16ths or 32nds on one note it's not that hard - if you want to move it around skipping strings and hitting different cominations of notes - then you have your work cut out - good luck.

Mike

See any Billy Sheehan video.

I was never able to play with my pinky. My pinky is so much shorter and weaker that I never saw any point to do it. If I would do it I'd have to change my whole technique and curve all the other fingers to be the same length as the pinky. Besides you can do most of the extremely fast stuff with 3 fingers or even 2 fingers if you just try and build up your stamina.

Sure its possible, and it can really only help your playing. I usually don't do it though, as 3 fingers + thumb is enough for anything I play. I do have the same problem with my small finger being much shorter than the others, but I find if I angle my hand a little bit (~45 degrees to the string) the difference isn't as bad and I can reach about equally with any finger.

As far as it being weak, that's just a matter of exercising it. Get one of those grib builder tools to speed the process, otherwise just practice with it a lot until you build your muscles up.

As far as it being weak, that's just a matter of exercising it. Get one of those grib builder tools to speed the process, otherwise just practice with it a lot until you build your muscles up.


no! those things are bad bad bad. You don't need raw strength in your hands, and those things can lead to narsty RSI and such.

As far as playing with 4 fingers... I guess I've never seen the point in terms of speed at least, I play just as fast with 2 as I've heard anyone play with 4. Well, okay, maybe some cats play with 4 a little faster, but by and large, the difference is insubstantial.

Yes, my pinky is so short too...anyway I changed my style....I had to.....I started to use a metronome at slow speed and in one year I was able to play all the stuff I did before with only my two fingers /index-middle/..with all the four fingers ....but more comfortable and with more control. /in the first days my pinky was sounding something like a mattock hitting the pick-up :rolleyes: but i didnt give up :spit: /
All the success is slow practising with metronome, finger exercises, DONT GIVING IT UP and slowly practising again :p :bassist: :bassist: :bassist:

no! those things are bad bad bad. You don't need raw strength in your hands, and those things can lead to narsty RSI and such.

As far as playing with 4 fingers... I guess I've never seen the point in terms of speed at least, I play just as fast with 2 as I've heard anyone play with 4. Well, okay, maybe some cats play with 4 a little faster, but by and large, the difference is insubstantial.


I don't use the grip builder much anymore, but it did seem to help me build up my finger strength better than just my normal practice habits. After using it, playing a bass seems like nothing, and my fingers wont get tired as quickly. It's no substitute for practicing on your instrument, but if you're driving or don't have a bass laying around, they can be useful for keeping your edge. I don't know about RSI, I've never had much trouble with it, but I can see where it would be possible.

As for playing with 2 vs. 4; you may be as quick with 2, but you're working your 2 fingers twice as fast as the guy using all 4 to play the same thing, so if you move all 4 as fast as you usually move just the 2 then you can get some wicked speed. But then, there is some limitation to how fast is actually practical in playing a song.

http://www.harmony-central.com/Bass/Articles/Hanging_Ten/

four fingered technique, it works, i got it, but noy well because i'm a lazy b****rd.

I don't use the grip builder much anymore, but it did seem to help me build up my finger strength better than just my normal practice habits. After using it, playing a bass seems like nothing, and my fingers wont get tired as quickly. It's no substitute for practicing on your instrument, but if you're driving or don't have a bass laying around, they can be useful for keeping your edge. I don't know about RSI, I've never had much trouble with it, but I can see where it would be possible.

As for playing with 2 vs. 4; you may be as quick with 2, but you're working your 2 fingers twice as fast as the guy using all 4 to play the same thing, so if you move all 4 as fast as you usually move just the 2 then you can get some wicked speed. But then, there is some limitation to how fast is actually practical in playing a song.

not trying to show off here but ive never found a song i cant play with just two fingers. i have tried using three fingers just to see what happens but find it hinders my technique. i quess everybody is different. i find to get the most out of my two fingers i have cut my nails really short and use the very very very tip of my fingers. ie. the minimal amount of effort to pluck each note = fastest speed attained + maximum effeciency :hyper:

I personally favour 3 fingers - For finger funk its great for adding in little muted triplets and such in your lines. :bassist:

I have to say though, even after 10 years of playing with 3 fingers, for some passages 2 really is easier... I was trying to play a Mars Volta bassline the other day with 3 and I was not getting anywhere! :hmm:

...

As for playing with 2 vs. 4; you may be as quick with 2, but you're working your 2 fingers twice as fast as the guy using all 4 to play the same thing, so if you move all 4 as fast as you usually move just the 2 then you can get some wicked speed. But then, there is some limitation to how fast is actually practical in playing a song.

I have to "half" disagree.
with 4 fingers you don't get faster than 2 fingers the only thing you get is that it take longer for your fingers to get tired and if you need to play fast bass line for a few minutes then if you play 2 fingers they will get tired and slow down compared to 4 fingers that will probably hold the tempo for longer.
Of course it depends on how strong are your fingers muscle.
IF you are well trained you can keep the speed for long enough.

no! those things are bad bad bad. You don't need raw strength in your hands, and those things can lead to narsty RSI and such.

As far as playing with 4 fingers... I guess I've never seen the point in terms of speed at least, I play just as fast with 2 as I've heard anyone play with 4. Well, okay, maybe some cats play with 4 a little faster, but by and large, the difference is insubstantial.
I had one of those gadgets and ended up tuffing it.

I now use a rubber band I found on the pavement.

Check out some Iron Maiden stuff, too. Before Matt Garrison hit it big, Steve Harris was workin' that plucking hand pinky. There are not many bassists who do this regularly, since it's a tricky technique, but they are out there, and worth investigating.

Check out some Iron Maiden stuff, too. Before Matt Garrison hit it big, Steve Harris was workin' that plucking hand pinky. There are not many bassists who do this regularly, since it's a tricky technique, but they are out there, and worth investigating.
It has been established that Harris only uses two fingers. His technique is deceptive when watching footage of him because he seems to be using more than two. However this is an "illusion". He does not hit the string with these fingers. He uses a very light touch using only the tips of his fingers and I mean the very tips and uses volume to get the sixteenth note gallops he is famous for. This has been confirmed time and again by Maiden discussion boards etc.
So that theory is well incorrect.

Less effort-if you use four fingers instead of two, you exert half as much effort on your two fingers and can go twice as fast than to just play with the two fingers (not that four fingers is necessarily faster- I mean that you can get four notes played quickly by using four fingers and not have to move each finger very fast, but for the same four notes to be played as quickly with two, you need to move those two twice as fast).



If you had 4 legs would it be twice as easy to run?

If you are using 4 fingers to play what are you using to mute?

If you had 4 legs would it be twice as easy to run?


Sure. Think about it-is it easier to do all of your fretting with two fingers or four? If you have to exert half as much effort and at half of the speed for the same amount of notes, it can be less work and stress for your plucking hand.


If you are using 4 fingers to play what are you using to mute?

That was an issue I worried about when I wanted to pracice this. I find I do a little more left hand muting, but you can still mute the string you're playing on with your other fingers for staccato notes, and I working on muting the lower strings with the edge of my palm. In general though, this way of playing with a really light touch has kept the other strings from ringing out much.

Im muting with my picking hand thumb, which is not anchored and lies or flows free above the strings and if there are any strings out of its range then with my fretting hand which is pretty logic then. :bassist:

I tried incorperating my pinky in plucking but it's never worked. My pinky is almost useless except for picking my inner ear. BUT, I've found that playing with my thumb-index-middle and ring fingers works well for 32th notes. It works well for classical guitarists too and they've been doing it for as long as people have existed.

I find that using 6 fingers is the most effective way to play...

http://www.ruggedelegantliving.com/a/images/six.fingers.hand.jpg

from my experience, 3 is perfect, 2 is good, with 3 you got more stamina, but with 2 you must practice it alot to make it very strong and long lasting when playing faster riff, i only use 3, and it is as fast as a pick, but to make it perfect needs a lot of training :D

and i think 4 finger is useless, the pinky is not strong enough, 3 or 2 finger is fast perfect for me :p

I don't think that the pinky is too weak for playing (how much strength does it take to pluck a note?), but I do think that the end of the pinky is a little small for playing with. It feels funny. I don't use it regularly. I find the thumb to be more useful for a four finger technique, even though it's not a finger.

You can play with your pinky pretty well as I do on bass and as many classical guitarist do, but it took me lot of time and practise till a get clean and balanced sound. Practise, practise, practise....ehm...slowly.... :bassist:

If you want to see some amazing four fingure tech. then check out any Dream Theater footage. John Myung seems to have it down. I'm still working on even getting three.

B.C.

If you want to see some amazing four fingure tech. then check out any Dream Theater footage. John Myung seems to have it down. I'm still working on even getting three.

B.C.

I believe Myung only uses three...

Depends on the music and feel. I use thumb and first three fingers but that is mainly due to evenness and stamina. After years of playing 1-2 for everything except slapping I started playing what just felt good. So if its steady 8th notes on the E string I use all downstrokes with my thumb because that is what the makes the music sound the best, the sound is very uniforn.

For playing repetitive stuff that goes on for a long time I use the other three fingers but I had to work at getting the third finger to sound as consistent as the first two because I had used those two for so many years. I've been playing professionally or 24 years so I've adjusted to the demands put on my body.

When I hear Mathew Garrison, however, I realize how great 4 finger technique sounds in the hands of a great player.

I saw Trujillo do it live. It was hardcore. I can almost do it, but the big problem is that when you move your ring finger, your pinky moves with it and vice versa.

I think that using finger more than 3 is quite stupid, and it looks bad for me, using 2 is the fast, most natural, but lack of stamina though, but i think that using 2 and even 5 finger is the same..