I am looking to hear some Latin style electric bass playing. I know that Latin is a broad description; that's okay. I really want to listen to some upbeat latin music that'll make you wanna dance.

Can you fellow TB'ers suggestion any Latin bassists?

I want to hear some slick fingerstyle grooves; some slap is okay. I wouldn't complain if the bass parts were considered to be a little "busy". ;)

Thank you in advance. :bassist:

Joe

Leo Traversa

Oscar Cartaya

Jimmy Haslip
Lincoln Goines
Oscar Stagnaro
Ruben Rodriguez

Anthony Jackson
Charles Flores

check out a venezuelan band called Guaco.

Sal Cuevas
Andy Gonzalez
Ruben Rodriguez
Lincoln Goines

I'll also reccomend a book to you that will cover the styles of all the players mentioned in this thread:

Afro-Cuban Gooves for Bass and Drums by Lincoln Goines and Robby Ameen

Anthony Jackson
Charles Flores

Beat me to it Bernie :D

Beat me to it Bernie :D

:D

Anthony's contribution to the Latin music scene can't be denied!

Also, I noticed that I put Charles Flores down and he's an URB player. Not sure if he plays electric or not. My mistake.

Carlito Del Puerto
Carlos Del Puerto

Thanks DWBass & chilliwilli for the shout! While I've done my share of non-Latin gigs (Roberta Flack, GW Jr. Bob Baldwin etc ...) what I do 75% of the time is Latin in some way or other. I'm heavily influenced by:
Sal Cuevas
Bobby Rodriguez
Bobby Valentin
Eddie "Gua Gua" Rivera
Cachao
Andy Gonzalez

Some Latinos playing other styles are:
Francisco Centeno
John Peña
Abraham Laboriel

Easy,
RR

Thanks DWBass & chilliwilli for the shout! While I've done my share of non-Latin gigs (Roberta Flack, GW Jr. Bob Baldwin etc ...) what I do 75% of the time is Latin in some way or other. I'm heavily influenced by:
Sal Cuevas
Bobby Rodriguez
Bobby Valentin
Eddie "Gua Gua" Rivera
Cachao
Andy Gonzalez

Some Latinos playing other styles are:
Francisco Centeno
John Peña
Abraham Laboriel

Easy,
RR

Thanks for the post Ruben!

Thank you guys! Keep 'em coming. I've been going to Bn.com to check out these bassists and I like what I'm hearing. Some of these bassists have a ton of album credits!

I just checked out Guaco. Good stuff, but they don't give the name of the bassist(s). The CD is "La Historia 1980-2000". That's strange, because they almost always list every performer on a CD; even if they are only doing a hand clapping part.

I am having a lot of fun with this. Thanks!

Joe

Something I've noticed...

The Latin bassists I've been listening to come through crystal clear in the mix. Is this true of most Latin music? I wish more music was like this. A lot of times the bass comes through like a fat, fuzzy bumblebee. Of course; this isn't a bad thing, but I do enjoy the clarity of the bass parts I've been hearing.

Joe

Juan Alderete of the Mars Volta, check out TMV. They have Larry Harlow on their new album, the song is L'Via L'Viaquez

Great clave beats

Something I've noticed...

The Latin bassists I've been listening to come through crystal clear in the mix. Is this true of most Latin music? I wish more music was like this. A lot of times the bass comes through like a fat, fuzzy bumblebee. Of course; this isn't a bad thing, but I do enjoy the clarity of the bass parts I've been hearing.

Joe

Well alot of times its just percussion, vocals, piano, and bass. sometimes with a drumset if you are playing more modern interpretations. So you dont really have to cut through any guitars or anything alot of the time. And even if you have to play with various instruments you wonthave much trouble since most latin players are very disciplined and wont clutter up the song with licks and fills.

Thanks DWBass & chilliwilli for the shout! While I've done my share of non-Latin gigs (Roberta Flack, GW Jr. Bob Baldwin etc ...) what I do 75% of the time is Latin in some way or other. I'm heavily influenced by:
Sal Cuevas
Bobby Rodriguez
Bobby Valentin
Eddie "Gua Gua" Rivera
Cachao
Andy Gonzalez

Some Latinos playing other styles are:
Francisco Centeno
John Peña
Abraham Laboriel

Easy,
RR

no problem!!

you and Sal Cuevas are my all time favorite latin bassists

Juan Alderete of the Mars Volta, check out TMV. They have Larry Harlow on their new album, the song is L'Via L'Viaquez

Great clave beats

I'm not sure if I was listening to the right thing, but that music sounds like this picture looks:
http://topkool.free.fr/images_musik/king_diamond03.jpg
I'm not saying that it's bad. I'm just saying that it's something I wouldn't really get into now. I may have liked this when I was 14 and listening to my neighbor's King Diamond LP's.

I did listen to some Larry Harlow on a Fania All-Stars CD; that's closer to what I'm looking for.

Thanks,
Joe

Something I've noticed...

The Latin bassists I've been listening to come through crystal clear in the mix. Is this true of most Latin music? I wish more music was like this. A lot of times the bass comes through like a fat, fuzzy bumblebee. Of course; this isn't a bad thing, but I do enjoy the clarity of the bass parts I've been hearing.

Joe

That's one of the coolest things of latin bass recordings: The lines are clearly distinguishable. I'm a true rock lover, but so many times I've complaint about many basslines that can be felt, but can't be heard because a wall of guitars buries the actual notes the bassist is playing. Roger Glover comes to mind. Most of the times I have a tough time trying to figure out the exact notes he plays. Chord changes are really easy to figure out, but most of the times I have to guess the actual notes played by him.

Two great latin bassists that haven't been mentioned (both from Cuba): Omar Hernández, who played with a band called "Cuarto Espacio". I know he will make your jaws drop. You can download an mp3 to hear him in action from this link:

http://s23.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=35WD18FCUPQP50K9QCUVG5SPZY

But this is mostly about virtousistic bass playing. If you want to hear a great latin groove by a superb player, check this mp3 by a band called "NG La Banda" with Feliciano Arango on bass. Here's the link:

http://s23.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=20E8GPMNLMJVN1LKZ12H1Z92FZ

And last but not least, the great Carlos Del Puerto with Irakere (cool bass solo here):

http://s12.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=2DG8KIAT4TY6X35ODWM6TQ6TMY

Hope you enjoy these recordings. Happy listening!

Something I've noticed...

The Latin bassists I've been listening to come through crystal clear in the mix. Is this true of most Latin music? I wish more music was like this. A lot of times the bass comes through like a fat, fuzzy bumblebee. Of course; this isn't a bad thing, but I do enjoy the clarity of the bass parts I've been hearing.

Joe
How're you supposed to dance if you can't hear the clave? :D

I'm curious as to why you're stipulating only electric, when so much latin/latin-jazz is done on upright. This seems like a pretty silly way of cutting your listening to "latin-lite."

Alvaro,

Thank your for your post and the links to those tunes. I will check them out. I am eager to hear them.

Joe

I'm curious as to why you're stipulating only electric, when so much latin/latin-jazz is done on upright. This seems like a pretty silly way of cutting your listening to "latin-lite."

I honestly didn't think that I was being "silly" when I asked for electric players. I play both URB and E-Bass. I studied URB in college and I've been directing a public school orchestra program for several years. E-bass playing is something that I do on my own.

IMO, they are completely different instruments; in tone and technique. I tend to favor the sound of an electric when it comes to most recordings. Also, the electric bass allows a player to be a little more nimble when it comes to "busy" playing. Of course you can play an URB in the same fashion, but it sounds a lot different.

Some URB's come through on a recording as a dull, near-pitchless thump. Electric bass doesn't seem to suffer from this as much. Fortunately; on many of the Latin recordings I hear, all basses are coming through clear as a bell. I love it.

However; as I said before, I favor the electric bass sound. I'm also looking to hear some more nimble playing that an electric bass more readily allows.

For the record: In my desire to hear the electric Latin bass, I am not putting down or minimizing Latin URB playing. ;)

Joe

+1 on Anthony Jackson. Check out Michel Camilo's Triangulo, or anything else....

+1 Oscar Stagnaro

Also, anything "Afro-Fill in the blank" is awesome. Try some Afro-Peruvian 'Lando' or 'Festejo' in 12/8 for a little challenge. (check out Eva Ayllon's stuff from Peru-I don't know who plays bass, though) The drums will actually throw you off, instead of help at first, until you figure out how the line fits. (Oscar Stagnaro is Peruvian, BTW)


The Latin Bass Book - Oscar Stagnaro / Chuck Sher

Covers a with a wide variety of styles, meters, etc.. Comes with 4 CD's, with the bass on a separate channel The end of the book has some transcriptions (and CD recordings) of particular lines.

There is NOTHING like a good latin bass line. It is such a fresh approach to playing, especially if you're grown up listening to pop and rock in 4/4, etc... Latin rhythms are the shiz-nit.

I think for bassists, playing a latin line is as close to playing the drums as you'll get. Bass IS a percussion instrument in Latin music.


Joe

For certain older style Cuban salsa, URB is the way to go....

But I love electric for the ability to be a little rhythmic (and to be heard)

+1 on Anthony Jackson. Check out Michel Camilo's Triangulo, or anything else....

+1 Oscar Stagnaro

The Latin Bass Book - Oscar Stagnaro / Chuck Sher

Covers a with a wide variety of styles, meters, etc.. Comes with 4 CD's, with the bass on a separate channel The end of the book has some transcriptions (and CD recordings) of particular lines.

There is NOTHING like a good latin bass line. It is such a fresh approach to playing, especially if you're grown up listening to pop and rock in 4/4, etc... Latin rhythms are the shiz-nit.

I think for bassists, playing a latin line is as close to playing the drums as you'll get. Bass IS a percussion instrument in Latin music.

Also, anything "Afro-Fill in the blank" is awesome. Try some Afro-Peruvian Festejo in 12/8 for a little challenge. (check out Eva Ayllon's stuff from Peru) The drums will actually throw you off, instead of help at first, until you figure out how the line fits. (Oscar Stagnaro is Peruvian, BTW)

Joe

Joey G Funk,
Excellent! Thanks for the informative post. I will check out those bassists and put "The Latin Bass Book" on my wish list. Everything I have from SHER is awesome.

Joe

I added a few things to my original post...


Also, dating a latina might help you 'rhytmic studies'...

ALSO

Another good book:
True Cuban Bajo - Carlos del Puerto (bassist w/ with Irakere) and Silvio Vergara


Bass book for Latin I own that I didn't like so much
Muy Caliente

Also, dating a latina might help you 'rhytmic studies'...
;)

Another good book:
True Cuban Bajo - Carlos del Puerto (bassist w/ with Irakere) and Silvio Vergara
Who is the publisher of this book?

Thanks again,
Joe

Sorry, I mixed Spanish and English in the title in my post.

The book title is both:
The True Cuban Bass
OR
El Verdadero Bajo Cubano

Publisher: Sher Music

That's one of the coolest things of latin bass recordings: The lines are clearly distinguishable. I'm a true rock lover, but so many times I've complaint about many basslines that can be felt, but can't be heard because a wall of guitars buries the actual notes the bassist is playing. Roger Glover comes to mind. Most of the times I have a tough time trying to figure out the exact notes he plays. Chord changes are really easy to figure out, but most of the times I have to guess the actual notes played by him.

Two great latin bassists that haven't been mentioned (both from Cuba): Omar Hernández, who played with a band called "Cuarto Espacio". I know he will make your jaws drop. You can download an mp3 to hear him in action from this link:

http://s23.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=35WD18FCUPQP50K9QCUVG5SPZY

But this is mostly about virtousistic bass playing. If you want to hear a great latin groove by a superb player, check this mp3 by a band called "NG La Banda" with Feliciano Arango on bass. Here's the link:

http://s23.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=20E8GPMNLMJVN1LKZ12H1Z92FZ

And last but not least, the great Carlos Del Puerto with Irakere (cool bass solo here):

http://s12.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=2DG8KIAT4TY6X35ODWM6TQ6TMY

Hope you enjoy these recordings. Happy listening!

I have only listened to the first 2 selections so far. Wow!

I am really impressed with Omar Hernandez's playing. That's some really amazing stuff. The composition is kinda' out there, but that's okay. It's worth multiple listens.

NG La Banda's tune is really enjoyable. I've already listened to that one several times. Really nice groove playing on this one. I love how the whole band sounds.

Thanks!
Joe

When it comes to latin, I love Van Van from Cuba. They freaking amaze me.

Juan Formel from Los Van Van; great feel and bass lines
Carlos del Puerto with Irakere, the s&^%%t. :)

hi...........ck out RUBEN BLADES LIVE,also SEIS DEL SOLAR(ALTERNATE ROOTS),MARC ANTHONY (OTRA NOTA)



I'LL GET BACK TO YOU WITH MORE LET ME CK MY CD STASH

Jimmy Haslip
Lincoln Goines
Oscar Stagnaro
Ruben Rodriguez

These would be the guys and I'd also add Oscar Cartaya and Scott Ambush

I honestly didn't think that I was being "silly" when I asked for electric players. I play both URB and E-Bass. I studied URB in college and I've been directing a public school orchestra program for several years. E-bass playing is something that I do on my own.

IMO, they are completely different instruments; in tone and technique. I tend to favor the sound of an electric when it comes to most recordings. Also, the electric bass allows a player to be a little more nimble when it comes to "busy" playing. Of course you can play an URB in the same fashion, but it sounds a lot different.
*nods* Cool.

Some URB's come through on a recording as a dull, near-pitchless thump. Electric bass doesn't seem to suffer from this as much. Fortunately; on many of the Latin recordings I hear, all basses are coming through clear as a bell. I love it.
As long as it's not severely limited by the recording technology of the time and you're using a non-remastered original vinyl, I'd say the second bolded sentence is going to be very much the truth. Like I said earlier, how are you supposed to dance if you can't hear the clave? I've never heard latin music with a bassist that didn't have the bass clear as a bell.

However; as I said before, I favor the electric bass sound. I'm also looking to hear some more nimble playing that an electric bass more readily allows.
That's fine if you simply prefer the sound of electric, but if you want to hear electric latin with "busy" bass parts, you're definitely cutting it down to Latin-Lite®. The vast majority of bass parts in latin/afro-cuban music are covered by not only upright bassists, but upright bassists playing a (seemingly simple) clave rhythm pretty strictly. This isn't to say that nobody ever goes away from that rhythm or that there isn't some great latin music played with electric, but cutting out latin/afro-cuban with DB is cutting out 3/4 of the genre.
The way a bassist plays a clave rhythm and the way a great bassist plays a clave rhythm is a far deeper thing than Joe Bassist playing Jacofunk on a samba.

I am writing this post in assumption that you're looking to familiarize yourself with the genre so you can play it comfortably on gigs or at least in jam sessions. Now, if you're just talking about kicking back and grooving to some nice latin music, it's a totally different story and there's some great music in this thread for you to dig into.

These would be the guys and I'd also add Oscar Cartaya and Scott AmbushCartaya was mentioned and that's why I didn't include him in my list. Scott Ambush plays Latin but is not a Latino and I think the question was regarding latino bassists. Scott does play a mean Tubao!!

Thank you so much for your thoughful response. Sorry if I sent any mixed messages about my purpose of this thread. My initial purpose was to kick back and listen to some upbeat Latin music. Some helpful resources were given, and I will keep those in mind for future playing.

Right now my I'm practicing 50's Rock 'n' Roll tunes for a performance I have in September.

The vast majority of bass parts in latin/afro-cuban music are covered by not only upright bassists, but upright bassists playing a (seemingly simple) clave rhythm pretty strictly.

I found this to be true from my listening experience. I was looking for a little something more. In the Gospel music world, I really like Fred Hammond and Andrew Gouche. I was searching for their equivalent in the Latin music world.

Thanks,
Joe

Don't know if this is a repost, but I don't feel like reading this whole thread. Anyway, check this guy out: Guillermo Vadala. He is a GREAT jazz/funk/latin player. I know nothing about latin music, but I hear this guy has played with some of the greats (whoever they are). Here's a link to his site with some audio/video samples. The vids are on the right. I love the song "Wille", great grooove.
http://www.guillermovadala.com/musica.html

Uhhhhh............any info on the hot chick bassist playing behind him??

Don't know if this is a repost, but I don't feel like reading this whole thread. Anyway, check this guy out: Guillermo Vadala. He is a GREAT jazz/funk/latin player. I know nothing about latin music, but I hear this guy has played with some of the greats (whoever they are). Here's a link to his site with some audio/video samples. The vids are on the right. I love the song "Wille", great grooove.
http://www.guillermovadala.com/musica.html

great stuff!

Lot's of Marcus and bit of Jaco in his playing.

Uhhhhh............any info on the hot chick bassist playing behind him??

Where did you see a hot chick?!

Joe

Where did you see a hot chick?!

JoeThe first vid has a chick playing bass holding it down while he plays lead bass. She looked pretty cute to me! :D

The first vid has a chick playing bass holding it down while he plays lead bass. She looked pretty cute to me! :D

I haven't seen the videos (will check them later) but I'm pretty sure she's Vadala's wife. Her name is Nerina Nicotra and the last time I heard from her (not too long ago) she was playing with a renowned argentinean band called Spinetta, named after the band leader, Luis Alberto Spinetta.

http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/6840/nerina4ft.jpg

Oh, the competition must be fierce in that household!! Thanks for the info.

There she is! This is the best thread ever! Where'd you get that pic?

Joe

There she is! This is the best thread ever! Where'd you get that pic?

Joe

I saved the picture from this site (http://www.clarin.com/diario/2005/05/29/espectaculos/c-00501.htm) (in Spanish) and uploaded it to my ImageShack account. I like her!

Don't know if this is a repost, but I don't feel like reading this whole thread. Anyway, check this guy out: Guillermo Vadala. He is a GREAT jazz/funk/latin player. I know nothing about latin music, but I hear this guy has played with some of the greats (whoever they are). Here's a link to his site with some audio/video samples. The vids are on the right. I love the song "Wille", great grooove.
http://www.guillermovadala.com/musica.html

He´s one of the most "famous" players down here. One of the few that had quite success as a solo player and/or bandleader. Vadala is known for his work with rock/pop singer/keyboardist Fito Paez. He´s got deep groove and tasteful busy lines.

Another good example is Javier Malosetti (although more jazz oriented). You can check him here (http://www.malosetti.com.ar/index1.html)

There´s a short video in the "Downloads" section

also ck out any work from puertorrican bass player BOBBY VALENTIN..........CK OUT SPYRO GIRA THE VERY BEST(HITS)
ALSO TITO PUENTE'S (THE MAMBO KING 100TH LP) it has three really good players already mentioned here...

also ck out any work from puertorrican bass player BOBBY VALENTIN..........CK OUT SPYRO GIRA THE VERY BEST(HITS)
ALSO TITO PUENTE'S (THE MAMBO KING 100TH LP) it has three really good players already mentioned here...

Yeah man, Bobby is a pretty bad mofo!

Yeah man, Bobby is a pretty bad mofo!
indeed...................there are more players i just have to remember their names.................. :hmm:
ok........any cd from RICHIE RAY AND BOBBY CRUZ (there are many good bass lines of course many bassist too)

Everyone! I just wanted to say thank you for the continued posts on this thread. I am still checking them. I've been tied up doing a lot of work lately. As soon as I get an opportunity, I will check out some of the newer posted names. Special thanks for Nerina Nicotra ;) .

Joe

Seems I'm jumping into this discussion a little late, but wanted to throw in some names. A lot of the players that I would recommend have been mentioned: Cachao, Bobby Rodriguez, Andy Gonzalez, Oscar Stagnaro, Ruben Rodriguez, Sal Cuevas, Gua Gua Rivera, Juan Formell, Bobby Valentin, Carlos Del Puerto, and Feliciano Arango. All deep groovers, some great soloists, and important innovators in the history of Latin bass. There's a lifetime worth of study right there.

Being primarily an electric player, I did want to say that I understand your desire to hear electric bass in this style. But for anyone attempting a serious study of the style, the upright and baby bass players are sooooo important. For example, if you haven't spent a good deal of time studying Cachao, you're playing is not going to do justice to the music. There's too much history there that shaped what bassists are doing today. Just like when those of us electric players want to study straight ahead jazz, we can't learn to walk until we've listened to Ray Brown, Ron Carter, Paul Chamber, etc . . . It's about taking what has come before us and interpreting it on the electric bass.

Also, when you deal with Latin Bass, the aesthetics of the music really force you to rethink what is "nimble" or "virtuostic" playing. In Afro-Cuban bass, the bass player is considered a drummer - so the rhythmic aspect of their playing becomes all important. This not only translates to their groove, but also soloing. You listen to some of the important players in the history of the music and they're not playing hyper-technical Victor Wooten style licks. They're playing interesting rhythmic ideas with some melodic movement. Some great listening examples, Cachao & Bobby Rodriguez on the 19 minute (!!!) bass feature "Descarga De Cantrabajos" from the Tico All Stars' Descargas At The Village Gate, Vol. 3. Eddie "Gua Gua" Rivera's solo on "May Day" from Batacumbele's "Live At The University of Puerto Rico". In both cases, these players are playing some intense solos, but they don't really play a million notes a minute. Of course, there are the virtuostic players that play with a bit more chops - Feliciano Arango and Oscar Stagnaro pop to mind - but again, if you really break apart their work, it is so rhythmically based in the clave and the history of the music.

Anyway, some players that I haven't heard mentioned that I think are also important. John Benitez - plays both upright and 6 string electric. good examples would be "Palmas" by Eddie Palmieri or John's own album "Descarga in New York". Cachaito, one of many bass players from Cachao's family. He became famous with the Buena Vista Social Club. I prefer his earlier playing with Los Amigos. His solo album is cool, very diverse and interesting. Pedro Pablo Guiterrez from Charanga Habanera, Charanga Forever, and his own salsa group. Victoriano Napoles from his work with Manolin. Alain Perez from Issac Delgado's 90's groups. Felipe Cabrera from his work with pianist Gonzalo Rubalcaba. David Belove from his work with John Santos and the Machete Ensemble. All great players . . .

Some good internet places to look for this music: timba.com has ALOT of information on current Cuban artists, including a lot of great bass players. Descarga.com has almost every possible salsa/latin jazz CD you could ever want to order.

If you get a chance, check out my latin jazz at www.myspace.com/chipboaz Would love to get some feedback on the work. I also have some transcriptions of latin bass playing up on my "work in progress" site (sorry there is some funky stuff on here - my web design skills are not quite up to par yet). I will have more up soon as well . . . The address is www.chipboaz.com

Very interesting bio. And some good solid playing. Not crazy about the midi thing but hey........ It's not often that folks delve headfirst into an unknown musical style and I commend you on that. On another note, I grew up 2 doors down from vibest, Jay Hoggard in Mount Vernon, NY. It's weird as I had no idea he was a musician until he left!

Thanks for the positive vibe on my playing, I appreciate it. Yea, it would be nice to have real horn players and all on the recording. The music definitely becomes more exciting like that. MIDI is just the most cost efficient way right now for me to fill in the stuff I can't cover myself. Hopefully I'll be phasing that out in future recordings.

That's so funny you used to live next to Jay. What a great guy and an incredible vibes player. My wife plays vibes and she studied with him while we lived back there. We saw him live a bunch and he was on the committee for my master's thesis. I have a lot of good memories of him.

A couple more thoughts on players - Joe Santiago, who played bass on some recent Eddie Palmieri albums. He plays some great solos on "La Perfecta II". Also, check out Feliciano Arango's playing with his most recent group, Los Hermanos Arango. It's Latin Jazz based on Santeria music, very cool stuff. Their first album is available at Descarga.com and they just finished a second album. I haven't heard it yet, but I'm certainly looking forward to it!

I really want to listen to some upbeat latin music that'll make you wanna dance.

Can you fellow TB'ers suggestion any Latin bassists?

I want to hear some slick fingerstyle grooves; some slap is okay. I wouldn't complain if the bass parts were considered to be a little "busy". ;)

Thank you in advance. :bassist:

Joe

Jose Rafael Torres from the band Los Amigos Invisibles.
I just saw them play here in San Diego, dynamite. They've been nominated for a Latin Grammy and the dude holds down some kick ass latin funk grooves. All finger style.
Here's a link to their website
Los Amigos Invisibles (http://www.amigosinvisibles.com/english/index.php)

Thanks Chip! Great recordings and impressive bio!

Thanks DG and McBass, I'm going to be busy this weekend researching and listening to all of the suggestions that y'all posted.

:bassist:

I think that I found the sound/style I'm looking for! I was driving in the car listening to a jazz station that plays Latin on Saturday. I heard an infectious bass groove, so I called the station. The DJ said that the song was "Yo No Me Muero Por Nadie" by La Makina.

The bass was fat and vibracious. It sounded as if most of the groove was played on the B-string. The playing was sparse. Also, there were some delicious glissando action. Every so often the bass did a fill in the upper register or something chordal sounding. It gave me goosebumps.

So I got home and did a little research on bn.com to find that this group is in the Merengue category. I listened to some other artists and I liked the following:

Zafra Negra
Grupo Mania
Milly Quezada
Kinito Mendez
Juan Luis Guerra
Wilfrido Vargas
Banda la Bocana

Are any of you familiar with these groups/artists?

Thanks,
Joe

I think that I found the sound/style I'm looking for! I was driving in the car listening to a jazz station that plays Latin on Saturday. I heard an infectious bass groove, so I called the station. The DJ said that the song was "Yo No Me Muero Por Nadie" by La Makina.

The bass was fat and vibracious. It sounded as if most of the groove was played on the B-string. The playing was sparse. Also, there were some delicious glissando action. Every so often the bass did a fill in the upper register or something chordal sounding. It gave me goosebumps.

So I got home and did a little research on bn.com to find that this group is in the Merengue category. I listened to some other artists and I liked the following:

Zafra Negra
Grupo Mania
Milly Quezada
Kinito Mendez
Juan Luis Guerra
Wilfrido Vargas
Banda la Bocana

Are any of you familiar with these groups/artists?

Thanks,
Joe

I'm VERY FAMILIAR with all of them, Joe. In fact, although I'm definitely a rocker, playing those artists' hits is what keeps me busy most of the time as a live player since I started 19 years ago. Banda La Bocana is a Colombian band which doesn't exist anymore AFAIK and they were famous on early 90's because of a (short-lived) rhythm called "Punta". Never heard them as a merengue band.

Merengue used to be cool music. The live bands and arrangements still are, but the songs keep becoming sillier and sillier. Merengue can be divided in two big eras, and the end of the first/beginning of the second can be heard in the middle 90's with Kinito Méndez. He was a member of a very popular merengue band called Coco Band and he quit to release his solo project, which was a smash hit. After that, Kinito became the man behind many popular merengue bands, most notably the one called Rikarena, which was very successful. Problem is: Kinito found the key of success by creating songs revolving around the I-VI-II-V or I-VI-IV-V chord progression (and I'm talking of more than 90% of his output). I hate him for that!

But the beginning of the new era can be felt because many changes in the way merengue was played and the band configuration. In this area, the most important change appeared in the brass section. It used to be comprised of two trumpets, one trombone and two saxes. Trombone was fired and replaced by a third trumpet. Every modern merengue band has that wind instruments' configuration.

Regarding the way it's played, one of the biggest changes was the BASS. Basslines became much more busier and glissandos-chords in the upper register became a trademark of merengue bass playing. Besides, a 5 or 6-string bass is a must if you want to play modern merengue. Also, the traditional rhythm pattern created between the tambora and conga was replaced by a totally new one. Currently, the only artist that has kept his high level of songwriting and performing is Juan Luis Guerra with his band called 440 (because of the concert A). Wilfrido Vargas used to be called the "King of Merengue" and he really was. He produced LOTS of hits. Extremely cool songs with impressive arrangements (specially for sax players) but his music became crap and he's rarely heard nowadays (I mean, no new hits from him. Only his old music keeps alive).

But I think you'll understand better by listening. Here are some great examples:

1- OLD merengue:

-Three famous tunes from Wilfrido Vargas: "El Hombre Divertido"...

http://s47.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=3J75ZSQM4H9HV3IS1BK4NHSDNW

..."El Comején"...

http://s41.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=0MOJSL3UC4LPA0JCINADRAHTI0

... and "Abusadora" (Live versions of this song are cooler but I don't have a decent sounding one. Don't miss the contrapuntal sax part!).

http://s47.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=1U52IL8LTYQBF2T254YLRTJRLP

-From Juan Luis Guerra Y 440, "Guavaberry (San Pedro De Macorís)" -in English!-:

http://s47.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=2XCUA0W113R0Y088FBRIGSKACE

-Jossie Esteban Y La Patrulla 15's "El Coco":

http://s49.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=2QOK06WSOWR0O2CASL27BYAC1U

- You mentioned Milly Quezada. She was the lead singer of a great merengue band called "Los Vecinos". They stopped producing music many years ago. I don't know if they're still performing. Here's one of their biggest hits, "Volvió Juanita":

http://s49.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=1LTYI34H9GW43031V4AXEYXX3L

-Sergio Vargas (Not related to Wilfrido Vargas) is an old school merengue singer who is still very successful. Nowadays, his arrangements combine elements from old and new merengue. This is a recent LIVE bootleg recording in which the bass is VERY prominent (I'm sure it will give you chills on the solo sax-brass repeated phrases called "mambos"). It's a 3-song medley from which I removed the third (not a hit here and not so cool IMO). I also removed some babbling from Sergio after the first song's intro. At 2:11 you'll hear a short phrase that was originally played by a trombone and here it's by a trumpet in the low register. So you'll hear two Sergio Vargas classics here: "La Quiero A Morir" and "Si Algún Día La Ves":

http://s51.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=3E9UG8UD9P1QE0KJFEEAESY0ZH

2- NEW merengue:

- The song that started it all (at least to my knowledge): Kinito Méndez's "Cachamba". One of the keys of success was also the tongue-twister towards the end of the song:

http://s51.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=0D6UFVYKXVRM83L78UZJFKG057

- One of the few Rikarena tunes that I like (the only one that stands the test of time IMO): "Cutibili Pachá".

http://s38.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=3TXM61W6VG5C30HWHAKMLJVSLU

(I always saw Rikarena's bassist playing a Ken Smith 6-string, BTW)

- Another practice in modern merengue is to add a fake baritone sax ("Cachamba" has this at the end) for some tunes. Here's a good example, also from Rikarena: "El Merengazo (Suéltame Gorila)".

http://s38.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=1RQHUH98STEMW3DWNTWHTROZU7

- The next one is "Suavemente" from Elvis Crespo. This was Crespo's first recording and it was a SMASH hit. Cool bassline. The only problem with Elvis' music is that all of his hits but one (as far as I knew) were in the same tonality: C minor. "Suavemente" is one of them, and that practice also made me hate EC with all my forces.

http://s38.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=1GOLKLFDUPB511LLXNHMUFBFPO

- And finally this tune, which has one of the COOLEST basslines in modern merengue. Most experienced merengue players just listen the songs, take the most important and distinctive parts from the original recording and add their own stuff. This bassline is so cool that all of us here (I think - at least me and a couple others) learned it note-for-note. This song is a master class in modern merengue bass playing. The band is called "Los Sabrosos Del Merengue" and the song's name is "Escúchame":

http://s41.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=2WQB1YM3PSHRS30MFLYIVKHIMV

All this info points to "commercial" merengue production. The "native" Dominican merengue replaces that big winds section for just an accordion and an alto sax, but that's another story. Not to mention all the traditional merengue variants like "apambichao" and others I can't recall right now. Hope you enjoy these recordings and find them useful, Joe. So you want to learn about latin bass playing, right? Listen to these tunes, let me know your opinions, take a deep breath and I will introduce you to a latin genre with AWESOME bass playing. I don't know if you'll like the music, but I'm pretty sure that the basslines will make your jaws drop.

P.S.: Don't forget that the links above will work for seven days only.

Carlito Del Puerto
Carlos Del Puerto

Aren't those the same guy? :confused:

Check out Carles Benavent with Jorge Pardo
Arthur Maia (from Brazil) with Gilberto Gil
Jorge Helder with Caetano Veloso

... and "Abusadora" (Live versions of this song are cooler but I don't have a decent sounding one. Don't miss the contrapuntal sax part!).

Hey Joe! I've uploaded an old video for you to check. You'll see the Wilfrido Vargas band LIVE from a then-popular colombian tv show. This is a 1987 tv broadcast that I have in a Betamax tape and transferred it to my PC. An exciting live performance of "Abusadora"! You'll see and hear all the elements of a classic merengue band: A trombone player (who left his tie at home) amidst the brass section, a regular 4-string bass throwing a simple (but effective) bassline... Video and audio quality aren't great, but it's perfectly understandable and enjoyable. It's a shame that in the last part of the song the overall video and audio quality drops even more, but that's because I played that section in my Betamax LOTS of times. Still enjoy it. Hope you do as well!

Link:

http://s42.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=36V5C3BCG0CS00HCP95F065OH3

Alvaro Martín Gómez A.,

I want to thank you for providing several musical examples AND a video! You are a really great guy. I appreciate you taking the time to give me all of those details on Merengue musicians. I can't wait to check out the video. It's people like you that make TB a great place to be. Thanks again! I am learning so much. I know very little about this style of music and your input will help selecting music a lot easier. I don't know many stores in my area that have a wide selection of Latin music. I will probably have to special order or purchase online.

Joe

Also check out: Willie Colon's "Siembra". Great music and great bass playing throughout.

Alvaro Martín Gómez A.,

I want to thank you for providing several musical examples AND a video! You are a really great guy. I appreciate you taking the time to give me all of those details on Merengue musicians. I can't wait to check out the video. It's people like you that make TB a great place to be. Thanks again! I am learning so much. I know very little about this style of music and your input will help selecting music a lot easier. I don't know many stores in my area that have a wide selection of Latin music. I will probably have to special order or purchase online.

Joe

My pleasure, Joe. I'm happy to help. I've been looking on Amazon.com the Merengue offerings and I'm posting the links for the best options IMO. Problem with one single artist merengue albums is that they have lots of fillers, so it's hard to find really good merengue albums. Check these ones:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B000003N04/qid=1126488790/sr=2-1/ref=pd_bbs_b_2_1/103-1615310-3227841?v=glance&s=music

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B000053VJI/qid=1126489116/sr=2-2/ref=pd_bbs_b_2_2/103-1615310-3227841?v=glance&s=music

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B00001W09I/qid=1126489447/sr=2-3/ref=pd_bbs_b_2_3/103-1615310-3227841?v=glance&s=music

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B00008EXMD/qid=1126489688/sr=1-8/ref=sr_1_8/103-1615310-3227841?v=glance&s=music

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B00000JQEB/qid=1126490654/sr=2-1/ref=pd_bbs_b_2_1/103-1615310-3227841?v=glance&s=music

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B00005N8XN/qid=1126490731/sr=2-1/ref=pd_bbs_b_2_1/103-1615310-3227841?v=glance&s=music

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B00008FJ9A/qid=1126490811/sr=1-3/ref=sr_1_3/103-1615310-3227841?v=glance&s=music

There are lots of great Merengue tunes missing from these albums, but can't find more compilations or single artist CDs that are really good. This is specially true for modern Merengue recordings (you'll notice that all my recommendations are about old school Merengue). Anyway, these suggested CDs are full of great music. Almost no fillers. Satisfaction guaranteed!

Regarding the way it's played, one of the biggest changes was the BASS. Basslines became much more busier and glissandos-chords in the upper register became a trademark of merengue bass playing. Besides, a 5 or 6-string bass is a must if you want to play modern merengue.

I'm so happy that you said this. When I created this thread, I couldn't imagine this sort of playing on upright. That is why I specified "Electric only". I heard this playing style before but I didn't know what it was. Now I know. Modern Merengue just isn't going to happen on upright.

Are there other Latin genres that use similar bass playing techniques? This kind of playing is infectious.

Listen to these tunes, let me know your opinions, take a deep breath and I will introduce you to a latin genre with AWESOME bass playing. I don't know if you'll like the music, but I'm pretty sure that the basslines will make your jaws drop.

I DO like the music. I don't understand the words, but that doesn't bother me. The music and bass playing is infectious. Wilfrido Vargas - Abusadora is good, but I like Rikarena - Cutibili Pach & Los Sabrosos Del Merengue - Escuchame even more. These are the only ones I've heard so far. I guess I favor the modern sound.

Is that a fretless in Escuchame? I love that sound! It's so slick.

So you want to learn about latin bass playing, right?

Right now this is for my listening enjoyment. In the future I may try to transcribe some lines. I'm playing a MIM P-Bass, so my range is limited. One day I would like to own a nice 6 string. A lined fretless Zon or MTD would be nice.

This has become my all-time favorite thread.

THANKS
Joe

PS. I checked out the amazon links. Thanks. I wish they had sound samples for all of their CD's.

Modern Merengue just isn't going to happen on upright.

Definitely not!

Are there other Latin genres that use similar bass playing techniques? This kind of playing is infectious.

I have something really good for you as I told you before, but I want you to listen to all the tracks first. It's a different genre that I don't like so much (there's a long story behind that) but the bass players are simply AWESOME.



Is that a fretless in Escuchame? I love that sound! It's so slick.

No. It's a 6-string fretted. If you listen closely to the cool fill the bassist plays at 2:50, the last vibrato A note is the perfect example of the high C string tone. BTW, never seen a Merengue band with a fretless bass. In fact, fretless basses are weird animals in the tropical music world (not talking about electric uprights).

Hi again, Joe. Maybe you'd like to hear these recordings "Made-In-Bucaramanga, Colombia". Some Merengue tunes that don't match the quality standards of dedicated composers and producers, but an effort, anyway.

- This one was recorded five years ago in a local studio for kinda "demo" release from my tropical band called "Rey & Rey" ("King & King" - Ha! :D ). The song is called "Viejo Verde" and the author is one of my brothers, who isn't a musician, just an enthusiast. He had the lyrics with the melody and I did the whole song's arrangement. Also recorded the bass part with my Washburn Axxess 5-string bass, which was stolen some weeks later. Here's the link:

http://s4.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=2HSMXL5XZ820Q1JTK1OQYY31HV

- Next one is from the same recording sessions. A Merengue version of Boyz II Men's "Te Voy A Amar", which was the Spanish-sung version of "I'll Make Love To You". This arrangement was made by our band's pianist, except for the 4-part vocal harmony chorus, arranged by myself. I also created and recorded the bassline. These two songs have a trombone track (which isn't used in Merengue bands nowadays as I explained), but it's included here because we're not a Merengue band. We also play Salsa and other colombian rhythms and a trombone player is needed for this.

Link to "Te Voy A Amar":

http://s4.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=38746GC3NGEUS3QFHPJ5IYH195

- And this one is from another local band called RH+ (like the blood factor) that hired me for recording it. This tune is called "La Cuca" and it's a song from an obscure Dominican singer (so obscure I don't remember his name. Manny Rivera, I Think) that this other band's owner heard and wanted to record. It's almost a copy from the original tune (no trombone but three trumpets here) and I tried to reproduce the original bassist's feeling, but not 100%. There's some of my stuff also. Even did some tapping! This was recorded like four years ago and I used my Carvin BB75.

http://s4.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=0565D1SX4YMIE3VHZVC8QPCJXO

Again, these recordings can't compete with the "sacred cows of Merengue" releases, but I think they're still enjoyable. I hope you will, Joe.

I'm VERY FAMILIAR with all of them, Joe. In fact, although I'm definitely a rocker, playing those artists' hits is what keeps me busy most of the time as a live player since I started 19 years ago. Banda La Bocana is a Colombian band which doesn't exist anymore AFAIK and they were famous on early 90's because of a (short-lived) rhythm called "Punta". Never heard them as a merengue band.

Merengue used to be cool music. The live bands and arrangements still are, but the songs keep becoming sillier and sillier. Merengue can be divided in two big eras, and the end of the first/beginning of the second can be heard in the middle 90's with Kinito Méndez. He was a member of a very popular merengue band called Coco Band and he quit to release his solo project, which was a smash hit. After that, Kinito became the man behind many popular merengue bands, most notably the one called Rikarena, which was very successful. Problem is: Kinito found the key of success by creating songs revolving around the I-VI-II-V or I-VI-IV-V chord progression (and I'm talking of more than 90% of his output). I hate him for that!

But the beginning of the new era can be felt because many changes in the way merengue was played and the band configuration. In this area, the most important change appeared in the brass section. It used to be comprised of two trumpets, one trombone and two saxes. Trombone was fired and replaced by a third trumpet. Every modern merengue band has that wind instruments' configuration.

Regarding the way it's played, one of the biggest changes was the BASS. Basslines became much more busier and glissandos-chords in the upper register became a trademark of merengue bass playing. Besides, a 5 or 6-string bass is a must if you want to play modern merengue. Also, the traditional rhythm pattern created between the tambora and conga was replaced by a totally new one. Currently, the only artist that has kept his high level of songwriting and performing is Juan Luis Guerra with his band called 440 (because of the concert A). Wilfrido Vargas used to be called the "King of Merengue" and he really was. He produced LOTS of hits. Extremely cool songs with impressive arrangements (specially for sax players) but his music became crap and he's rarely heard nowadays (I mean, no new hits from him. Only his old music keeps alive).

But I think you'll understand better by listening. Here are some great examples:

1- OLD merengue:

-Three famous tunes from Wilfrido Vargas: "El Hombre Divertido"...

http://s47.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=3J75ZSQM4H9HV3IS1BK4NHSDNW

..."El Comején"...

http://s41.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=0MOJSL3UC4LPA0JCINADRAHTI0

... and "Abusadora" (Live versions of this song are cooler but I don't have a decent sounding one. Don't miss the contrapuntal sax part!).

http://s47.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=1U52IL8LTYQBF2T254YLRTJRLP

-From Juan Luis Guerra Y 440, "Guavaberry (San Pedro De Macorís)" -in English!-:

http://s47.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=2XCUA0W113R0Y088FBRIGSKACE

-Jossie Esteban Y La Patrulla 15's "El Coco":

http://s49.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=2QOK06WSOWR0O2CASL27BYAC1U

- You mentioned Milly Quezada. She was the lead singer of a great merengue band called "Los Vecinos". They stopped producing music many years ago. I don't know if they're still performing. Here's one of their biggest hits, "Volvió Juanita":

http://s49.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=1LTYI34H9GW43031V4AXEYXX3L

-Sergio Vargas (Not related to Wilfrido Vargas) is an old school merengue singer who is still very successful. Nowadays, his arrangements combine elements from old and new merengue. This is a recent LIVE bootleg recording in which the bass is VERY prominent (I'm sure it will give you chills on the solo sax-brass repeated phrases called "mambos"). It's a 3-song medley from which I removed the third (not a hit here and not so cool IMO). I also removed some babbling from Sergio after the first song's intro. At 2:11 you'll hear a short phrase that was originally played by a trombone and here it's by a trumpet in the low register. So you'll hear two Sergio Vargas classics here: "La Quiero A Morir" and "Si Algún Día La Ves":

http://s51.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=3E9UG8UD9P1QE0KJFEEAESY0ZH

2- NEW merengue:

- The song that started it all (at least to my knowledge): Kinito Méndez's "Cachamba". One of the keys of success was also the tongue-twister towards the end of the song:

http://s51.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=0D6UFVYKXVRM83L78UZJFKG057

- One of the few Rikarena tunes that I like (the only one that stands the test of time IMO): "Cutibili Pachá".

http://s38.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=3TXM61W6VG5C30HWHAKMLJVSLU

(I always saw Rikarena's bassist playing a Ken Smith 6-string, BTW)

- Another practice in modern merengue is to add a fake baritone sax ("Cachamba" has this at the end) for some tunes. Here's a good example, also from Rikarena: "El Merengazo (Suéltame Gorila)".

http://s38.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=1RQHUH98STEMW3DWNTWHTROZU7

- The next one is "Suavemente" from Elvis Crespo. This was Crespo's first recording and it was a SMASH hit. Cool bassline. The only problem with Elvis' music is that all of his hits but one (as far as I knew) were in the same tonality: C minor. "Suavemente" is one of them, and that practice also made me hate EC with all my forces.

http://s38.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=1GOLKLFDUPB511LLXNHMUFBFPO

- And finally this tune, which has one of the COOLEST basslines in modern merengue. Most experienced merengue players just listen the songs, take the most important and distinctive parts from the original recording and add their own stuff. This bassline is so cool that all of us here (I think - at least me and a couple others) learned it note-for-note. This song is a master class in modern merengue bass playing. The band is called "Los Sabrosos Del Merengue" and the song's name is "Escúchame":

http://s41.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=2WQB1YM3PSHRS30MFLYIVKHIMV

All this info points to "commercial" merengue production. The "native" Dominican merengue replaces that big winds section for just an accordion and an alto sax, but that's another story. Not to mention all the traditional merengue variants like "apambichao" and others I can't recall right now. Hope you enjoy these recordings and find them useful, Joe. So you want to learn about latin bass playing, right? Listen to these tunes, let me know your opinions, take a deep breath and I will introduce you to a latin genre with AWESOME bass playing. I don't know if you'll like the music, but I'm pretty sure that the basslines will make your jaws drop.

P.S.: Don't forget that the links above will work for seven days only.
millie quezada has been performing as a solo artist for many years.also ck out olga tanon...really good stuff as well

BASSIST FOR LIFE..................SINCE YOU LIKED MERENGUE,CK OUT BACHATA(STYLE) SIMILAR TO MERENGUE WITH A DIFFERENT FLAVOR TO IT...............

MORE MERENGUE..............ZONA ROJA ...........LIMITE 21............GRUPOMANIA.......MANNY MANUEL.........JOSE MEDINA.........CONJUNTO QUISQUEYA.......KAOS......MELINA LEON......GISELLE......SABROSOS DEL MERENGUE...CANA BRAVA...........

Great thread! I've been after stuff like this. Thanks for starting it Bassist4Life, and a special thanks to Alvaro for sharing your knowledge and sounds. I've got a couple of those clips you posted, and I'm really enjoying them. Makes me want to get a 6 string!

Looking forward to hearing your playing Alvaro.

Also, are you sure some of those tracks aren't fretless? I agree about Escuchame, but a few of the other tracks sound alot like fretless (Suavemente for one). Is it just a very "fretless-y" tone?

Also, are you sure some of those tracks aren't fretless? I agree about Escuchame, but a few of the other tracks sound alot like fretless (Suavemente for one). Is it just a very "fretless-y" tone?

Yes, man. Completely. Again, fretless basses aren't "welcome" in a tropical band. Maybe in a Salsa band (although haven't see the first either - in that case they'd use an electric upright, which is very common), but not in a Merengue band. At least, if a single Merengue bass player uses a fretless bass it would be a big surprise for me. I've used mine, but as I said before, my band isn't a Merengue-only one. Sometimes, if I don't have any slap parts in a Merengue tune, I play it with my fretless just to avoid switching basses. I've even played some Merengues with my electric upright, but only some of the old, very simple ones like "El Comején", for instance.

Hope you like my clips! If any of them (or the previous ones included the video) are dead, please let me know and I'll post some fresh links. :)

Makes me want to get a 6 string!

BTW, I don't like six stringers. I've played 5 string basses exclusively from 14 years ago. I've played some sixers, but not impressed, really. A good 5 string bass is more than enough to play modern Merengue.

This has been such an interesting thread, it's so great to get in touch with bassists into Latin music! Alvaro, thanks for all your insightful info on Merengue. I played in a Merengue band for something like 4 years here in the Bay Area, and it was an up/down experience for a few reasons. First, Merengue is kind of a four letter word among salsa musicians here and it kind of hampered my ability to get a lot of salsa work. Whereas most people saw Merengue bass as little more than glorified polka, I heard some of the intricate details those players were doing. I really wanted to dig in a little deeper . . . unfortunetly the guys I was playing with weren't really articulate enough to talk to me in much musical depth about it. And I never could really find any info about the bassists. It got pretty frustrating and I kind of put it on the backburner after a while. Your information here is really inspiring, I'm ready to check out some merengue again. I hear some of the variations that you're putting into modern merengue and equate it on some levels to Cuban timba bass playing. You're a great player by the way . . . .

A couple of merengue bands that I grew to like - Oro Solido; Banda Gorda

Let's keep this conversation going!

For some great merengue "Baby" bass playing, check out Conjunto Quisqueya's early records w/ Pin Jimenez on bass .... great player! He also did some records/CD's in the late 90's w/ Josie Esteban in the producer's seat.

Easy,
R

Hey! I've been listening to some Merengue. I got "Merenhits 2000". It's has various artists on it: La Makina, Elvis Crespo, Group Mania, Zafra Negra, Rikarena, Proyecto Uno, Kinito Mendez...

I have something really good for you as I told you before, but I want you to listen to all the tracks first. It's a different genre that I don't like so much (there's a long story behind that) but the bass players are simply AWESOME.

I am anxious to know what genre this is. Please share it with us.

BASSIST FOR LIFE..................SINCE YOU LIKED MERENGUE,CK OUT BACHATA(STYLE) SIMILAR TO MERENGUE WITH A DIFFERENT FLAVOR TO IT...............

Where does Bachata come from? I did a search on Amazon and came up with nothing.

Great thread! I've been after stuff like this. Thanks for starting it Bassist4Life, and a special thanks to Alvaro for sharing your knowledge and sounds.

Thank you. I am really enjoying this thread too. I think more bass players need to be aware of this kind of playing. Alvaro is such a great guy for giving so much of his time and energy to this thread. Thanks Alvaro!

First, Merengue is kind of a four letter word among salsa musicians here and it kind of hampered my ability to get a lot of salsa work. Whereas most people saw Merengue bass as little more than glorified polka, I heard some of the intricate details those players were doing.

I guess I can understand how some people might not respect Merengue players; but for me, those intricate details give me chills. I love it.

Is Salsa playing seen as more "legit" than Merengue? Do most Salsa players look down on Merengue playing? I am not familiar with Salsa playing. Is it an intricate style of playing? I am really interested in hearing the genre that Alvaro is keeping from us. Is it Salsa?

Let's keep this conversation going!

+1

Joe

http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?t=16692

I found the above thread from 2001. When I started this thread, it was to get some suggestions for listening. Now, I am starting to want to learn to play in this style. The link looks like it has some good info; but, I'm not sure if it's all accurate.

Does anyone have educational Internet links with online lessons (w/real notation)? For this style, I can imagine it would be best to see the percussion notated with the bassline.

Thanks,
Joe

I am anxious to know what genre this is. Please share it with us.

OK. Here's the long story: There's a musical genre which has its roots in Colombia's northern coast. It started as a trio comprised of two acoustic guitars and a guacharaca (a short stick that produces a rasping sound. A smaller version of a güiro (http://www.musicofpuertorico.com/en/instruments_guiro.html)). Later, another percussion instrument called caja was added. This looks like a (bigger) single drum bongo, which is also held between the legs and you play it with your bare hands hitting a special kind of skin for this instrument: AN X-RAY.

This musical genre, which is called Vallenato is one of the most folkloric musical expressions of my country (well, it used to be, as you'll see later). The lyrics always talked about urban legends and stuff like that. Very valuable music in my opinion.

The first big change in this music happened when the guitarists were fired and a new instrument appeared for playing Vallenato: The accordion. It became very popular and the guitar-sounding groups keep as a sample of the really old-style Vallenato. In the 70's, the electric bass was added and it was a very revolutionary addition. In fact, I think that Vallenato bass playing is unique in the world. Even the technique to play it! Dedicated Vallenato bassists use their thumb along with the other fingers to pluck the strings, in the way a guitarist would do it when playing fingerstyle. The basslines... well, I think it's better to hear. More on this later. The current lineup also includes a conga player and a timbal (same as in salsa) player. The guacharaca was replaced for a metallic güiro called güira (female for güiro. The same instrument used by Merengue bands).

What's my problem with vallenato? It used to be a very respectable music (although I've never been a fan) until like 13 years ago. From there, the interesting "urban legend" lyrics were replaced by the most lachrymose soap operas you can think of, and cheesy synths were added. The sad part is: That music is a huge success here, thanks to the radio stations. What a shame. This music is pure garbage right now. Even the basslines, which were really brilliant in the past, aren't interesting anymore. I've coined a "law" (as on Boyle's law or Charles' law) that I hope to be of public knowledge some day: Alvaro's law. Mathematically, it goes like this:

IQ= 1/n

Where IQ is the intellectual quotient of the person subject of study and n is the number of Vallenatos that person can sing by sheer memory. This is translated into this axiom:

"The Intellectual Quotient of a person is inversely proportional to the amount of vallenatos he/she can sing by sheer memory"

Trust me, that's true. And there are plenty of these animals here. So if you like what you're about to hear, do yourself a favor and don't listen a single song of these which has been released after like 1992.

Before the links, I must post a warning: If you hate the accordion (as I currently do) DON'T DOWNLOAD THIS MUSIC. It's an accordion fest. But if you can stand it, you'll be rewarded with some bass playing that I'm sure will amaze you.

There have been many big artists in the genre, but here I'm posting three songs from the best Vallenato band ever, called "El Binomio De Oro". It used to be that great until the lead singer was killed because he supposedly was using the band's tours for washing dollars (and maybe drug traffic) and he paid a mistake with his life. After that, El Binomio De Oro became one of the worst Vallenato bands to me.

There are two BIG names in Vallenato bass playing: José Vásquez and Rangel "El Maño" Torres. The latter died in a plane crash during a tour. Both are/were awesome bassists and guitarists, pioneers and developers of the style. These recordings are from late 70's and mid 80's.

- "Déjame Quererte": One example of the slow (an most common) Vallenato songs, that you can dance with your partner over a single tile. Use this song as a warmup for the next ones. Link:

http://s49.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=0HJDLGEG8BF5G06F8X9A53WGOK

- "El Parrandón". An uptempo tune with a double tracked bass in the middle section: One bass playing accompaniment and the other plays a lead part. Both were recorded by José Vásquez. Link:

http://s49.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=3HFRTAHT4N9D03C6TUYG750ZHA

- "La Candelosa". Another uptempo tune which is THE BEST for me. Really enjoyable IMO (again, lots of accordion here. You've been warned). This awesome bassline was recorded in 1986 by the late Rangel "El Maño" Torres. Link:

http://s49.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=3LPTWP49KDC6K3D07W5NAB64XG

Edit: That mp3 of "La Candelosa" is an LP transfer I did some years ago when I couldn't find the song in mp3 format, and I don't have any Vallenato CDs, but I forgot that my brother lent me one Binomio De Oro Greatest Hits CD and I ripped this song from there. Here's a link to a better quality recording of "La Candelosa":

http://s40.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=1A6UJ3O9P3YT22AGF1ACTWA5WM

The last two songs (I'm not sure about the first one) were recorded with a bass that was a big novelty among musicians at the time here: A Kramer with aluminum neck and split headstock. No six-stringers at that time. Vásquez and Torres only needed four strings. Sixers are a must for Vallenato bassists nowadays. This Kramer bass was from the band's owners (the accordion player and the late lead singer), not the bassists. I played a gig with my band alternating with El Binomio six months before the singer was killed and could see José Vásquez live playing a black Steinberger. The band had a show about a dialogue between the accordion and the bass. Vásquez replied to everything the accordionist played. Truly awesome.

I'm really interested on your opinions. Again, I hate this music but it used to be decent. Maybe the quality of the music is debatable, but I think that the bassists' high level of creativity and playing isn't.

Where does Bachata come from? I did a search on Amazon and came up with nothing.

Are you talking about Bachata's origins? Maybe this (http://home-3.tiscali.nl/~pjetax/historias/history_bachata.html) will help.



Thank you. I am really enjoying this thread too. I think more bass players need to be aware of this kind of playing. Alvaro is such a great guy for giving so much of his time and energy to this thread. Thanks Alvaro!

Again, I'm really happy to help. :)


I guess I can understand how some people might not respect Merengue players; but for me, those intricate details give me chills. I love it.

Is Salsa playing seen as more "legit" than Merengue? Do most Salsa players look down on Merengue playing? I am not familiar with Salsa playing. Is it an intricate style of playing?

I can't tell that Salsa players look down on Merengue, but it wouldn't surprise me. Salsa is considered a higher level music, specially because of the syncopated rhythms (Merengue's basslines, for instance, are basically thump-thump, while Salsa lines have more syncopations - all the time!) and richer brass harmonies (Merengue's horn section is harmonized in pure triads most of the times. Salsa's brass section plays five-part harmonies - 9th chords and stuff- instead). I'll post some great Salsa tunes for you to hear after listening the Vallenatos, Joe.

http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?t=16692

I found the above thread from 2001. When I started this thread, it was to get some suggestions for listening. Now, I am starting to want to learn to play in this style. The link looks like it has some good info; but, I'm not sure if it's all accurate.

I'll check that thread in detail later. Looks very interesting.

Does anyone have educational Internet links with online lessons (w/real notation)? For this style, I can imagine it would be best to see the percussion notated with the bassline.

Thanks,
Joe

Hey, Joe! Download the zip file in the link below. It has the complete bassline for a Salsa tune transcribed by myself and the mp3 for listening the song (sorry, no percussion transcribed). This is a great Salsa singer called Gilberto Santa Rosa and the song is called "La Agarro Bajando". Bassist is one of the most recognized names in the Salsa scene: Salvador "Sal" Cuevas, who is credited by Lincoln Goines as a major influence for him. In this Gilberto Santa Rosa album ("Intenso"), talkbasser Rubén Rodríguez also recorded the bass track for one song.

"La Agarro Bajando": http://s50.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=1XK0AHMCS7TU32TIWDF9V3NSCI

Hey Alvaro, great transcription, thanks for that! I love Sal Cuevas, but funny, I haven't really transcribed that much of his work. Do you have more? I'd be interested in sharing. I have a lot of transcribed salsa/timba/latin jazz bass lines and solos.

Joe - I've got a bunch of my transcriptions posted on my website. You can find them at:

http://www.chipboaz.com/Transcriptions.htm

There's 12 transcriptions up there now, with more to come. I just haven't had the time to convert all the files and post them on the web. I plan on bringing them up a bit at a time. At this point, everything I have posted is either Salsa, Timba, or Latin Jazz. If you have trouble tracking down any recordings, let me know. Hope they are of help to you!

BACHATA COMES FROM THE SAME PLACE MERENGUE COMES FROM..........DOMINICAN REPUBLIC.

NOT TO FORGET THAT THERE'S MANY MERENGUE GROUPS ALREADY MENTIONED HERE THAT COME FROM PUERTO RICO.

I think you have a really good point about learning the percussion parts as you learn the bass parts. The bass is really a percussion instrument in this style and you need to be able to lock into the timbales, congas, bongo, etc . . . I've also found that learning all the instruments and focusing on them really increases your ability to hear multiple musical ideas at once. Great for jazz. I teach a latin jazz big band at the high school where I teach and I have basic patterns written out - it's all at school and I'll have to scan it. I'll find it this week. I would really reccomend going out and getting:

The Salsa Guidebook by Rebecca Mauleon

It's a great book, well written and full of good stuff. It's covers lots of Cuban and Puerto Rican styles - Son Montuno, Cha Cha Cha, Guaguanco, etc . . . . She touches very briefly on Merengue, but not in any depth (I'm not aware of a good book on Merengue - if anyone knows, I'd love to hear . . . .). The best thing about the book is she not only covers percussion and bass, but piano, horns, singers, etc . . . You really get the full picture.

There is also Funkifying the Clave by Lincoln Goines and Robby Ameen. A great book, but focuses a little more on bass and drum kit. Outstanding for modern ideas, but I think its really important to get how the traditional percussion lines up in the music. There's a good book that Tito Puente did near the end of his life with a collaborator whose name I can't remember. Great percussion stuff in there and a real breakdown of Puente's style. The Latin Bass Book by Oscar Stagnaro and The Real Cuban Bass by Carlos Del Puerto are also great, but in my opinion, a little bass focused without the connection to percussion.

If you have access, I would definitley learn to play the percussion parts on timbales, congas, bongo. I don't think my tumbao really came together until I did that.

Do you have more?

Not now, man. Problem is that I transcribe lots of music for my band, but I never write down a bass sheet. I just learn the lines and I transcribed "La Agarro Bajando" as a teaching material. I promised Rubén Rodríguez a transcription of a great and famous bassline he recorded but I keep short of time and haven't completed it yet. I'll send it to you when done.

I visited your website and it's pretty cool! (I just woke up -after a gig- and haven't checked your transcriptions yet) I also studied double bass (German bow) with a Polish master and I love the instrument, but like you, my real love is the bass guitar. One question: Do you currently play Salsa with a band? I did the full horns transcriptions of "La Agarro Bajando" for mine. Gilberto Santa Rosa used three trumpets, two trombones and a baritone sax. I arranged it for two trumpets, alto and tenor sax plus one trombone. There's also the chords guide for piano and bass and even transcribed the synth solo at the end! Let me know if you're interested so I'll post a link with the full score and parts. I guarantee you: It sounds GOOD.

BTW, thank you for your comments on my playing! :) :)

[QUOTE=Alvaro Martín Gómez A.]I promised Rubén Rodríguez a transcription of a great and famous bassline he recorded but I keep short of time and haven't completed it yet.

Hey, thanks Alvaro, take your time ... I'll be waiting. Did I tell you Sal has your transcription? He enjoyed it and was honored.

Easy,
R

Did I tell you Sal has your transcription? He enjoyed it and was honored.

Yes Rubén, you told me. The honor is mine!

Yes, man. Completely. Again, fretless basses aren't "welcome" in a tropical band. Maybe in a Salsa band (...) I did it for years, and I got away with it. As long as you mute well, no problem.

Omar Rodriguez-Lopez (guitarist of at the drive-in/the mars volta) plays electric bass in a salsa band called Defacto

One question: Do you currently play Salsa with a band?

I've played with lots of different Salsa bands for several years. San Francisco has a very active salsa scene and some outstanding musicians that inhabit the bands. There is a lot of work for a bass player that knows the style, reads well, and is flexible. I'm currently not a regular with any one band. I had some health problems in my family earlier in the year and it made me less available to gig on a regular basis. I still sub as I can, but my high school teaching gig is paying the bills right now.

I actually have played "La Agarro Bajando" quite a bit with a band called Los Rumberos. That arrangement used 2 trumpets, 1 trombone, and bari sax. It's a great band, that song always sounded good. I've never actually sat down with the recording and figured it out note for note though, I'm enjoying reading through your transcription. If you do have the link for your arrangment I'd love to get it - I like to have my students do a lot of sight reading and would love to throw this at them. I write out a lot of stuff for them, but its time consuming. If you're willing to let me look at this one, I'd appreciate it.

Thanks for checking out the site, I appreciate it. Just trying to get my original music heard and connect with other musicians with similar interests. Looks like there are quite a few here!

I heard "Pintame" by Elvis Crespo and I couldn't believe my ears. Who is the bassist?!?! I have conflicting information. I did a web search and I came up with 2 guys:

Andy Gonzalez & Miguel Gonzalez

My guess is that it's Miguel. Am I right?

I need to hear more playing like on Pintame. Can you guys direct me to more of THAT.

Thanks,
Joe

Anybody heard of Nicky Orta? He played bass on Arturo Sandoval's "Flight to Freedom". The guy is a monster.

Slug

I heard "Pintame" by Elvis Crespo and I couldn't believe my ears. Who is the bassist?!?! I have conflicting information. I did a web search and I came up with 2 guys:

Andy Gonzalez & Miguel Gonzalez

My guess is that it's Miguel. Am I right?

I need to hear more playing like on Pintame. Can you guys direct me to more of THAT.

Thanks,
Joe

Yes, Joe. "Píntame" has a great bassline. I've always liked the tasteful use of vibrato in this tune. But if you also heard "Suavemente", you'll understand why I hate Elvis Crespo. It's virtually the same song! He had another hit called "Tu Sonrisa" and these three songs are written in the same key signature and the arrangements are very similar. To me, "Suavemente" is the best of them as a song, but "Píntame" has undoubtfully the best bassline. About the bass player, I think at this point you know much more than me, Joe. Unfortunately, merengue musicians are very uncredited nowadays (I think they had more recognition in the past). Some credited players I can recall now: Isaías Leclerc recorded most bass tracks from Rikarena and Kinito Méndez tunes. "Papo" Cadena is a very well known sax player who also has recorded lots of hits for the Kinito Méndez organization. Luis Aquino is an awesome trumpet player that you can hear in Elvis Crespo tunes. BTW, "Suavemente" was EC's first and biggest hit, but bands here didn't play it so much because it was extremely difficult for trumpets. Very high register! Mr. Aquino has lots of credits not only on Merengue but Salsa recordings as well. Somebody told me that he even played for Yanni in the concert at The Acropolis and he's introduced by the leader after a solo or something like that.

Other known Merengue musicians whose names appeared in lots of albums in the past: Jaime Querol on bass, Leini Guerrero on piano and Janina Rosado on keyboards. She's currently the musical director and pianist for 440 (Juan Luis Guerra's band).

Yes, Joe. "Píntame" has a great bassline. I've always liked the tasteful use of vibrato in this tune. But if you also heard "Suavemente", you'll understand why I hate Elvis Crespo. It's virtually the same song! He had another hit called "Tu Sonrisa" and these three songs are written in the same key signature and the arrangements are very similar. To me, "Suavemente" is the best of them as a song, but "Píntame" has undoubtfully the best bassline.

I have heard "Suavement" and I noticed how similar it is. I think it's okay to have hits with a similar sound/flavor. If something works, stick with it (at least until it stops working). Take a listen to some AC/DC songs. How about Chuck Berry tunes? They are so similar. However, I do understand where you're coming from with your dislike for Elvis Crespo. There are certain artists where you expect greater variety.

About the bass player, I think at this point you know much more than me, Joe. Unfortunately, merengue musicians are very uncredited nowadays (I think they had more recognition in the past).

It sounds kind of like Motown. :hmm: It's a shame that amazing musicians are not given recognition. It makes me a little bitter. I think that the general public thinks that a musicians job is "easy". There is so much time and effort invested into becoming a good musician. I could go on forever with this rant, but I will cut it short.

Alvaro, I just want to say thank you again for all the time and effort you have invested into this thread. It is a valuable resource for anyone interested in this kind of music. You're a good guy.

Thanks,
Joe

Hey everybody, I thought this was such an inspiring conversation, I hated to see it go. I love this style of bass playing and I would love to stay in touch with other players who also like it. I started a Yahoo group that hopefully you guys can sign up for and we can keep throwing around ideas about the music. Sign up by sending an e-mail to the address below. Hope to talk to everybody soon!
Chip

Send an e-mail here:
latinbassnetwork-subscribe@yahoogroups.com

OK GUYS.................I JUST GOT BACK FROM PUERTO RICO A COUPLE OF DAYS AGO,AND I GOT THIS HOT CD.

IT'S CALLED HUMBERTO RAMIREZ PRESENTS....PUERTO RICO LATIN JAZZ MOODS.

AND HERE ARE THE NAMES OF THE BASS PLAYERS.......
MARTIN SANTIAGO
OSKAR CARTAYA
JOHN BENITEZ
PEDRO PEREZ
RAMON VAZQUEZ
EDDIE GOMEZ
AND THERE IS A SONG THAT THIS GUYS PLAYS..CUATRO,GUITAR AND BASS(PRODIGIO CLAUDIO)

THIS CD IS VERY GOOD SO IF ANYONE CAN GET A HOLD OF IT,GET IT.

yes, Nicky Orta from Miami- a friend and a monster player! world class all the way in latin and jazz- his brother is a killin keyboardist as well-
there was "Papito Hernandez " RIP, who was an excellent bassist, his son Julio records with everyone, not just Latin either- he's on the latest Streisand record.
Orcar Stagnaro
Lincoln Goines
yes! Ruben Rodrigues !
there a killer bassist with a Cuban band named Klimax - those guys are on fire! i think his name is Ricardo Riveron.
many more, but i am drawing a blank

yes, Nicky Orta from Miami- a friend and a monster player! world class all the way in latin and jazz- his brother is a killin keyboardist as well-
there was "Papito Hernandez " RIP, who was an excellent bassist, his son Julio records with everyone, not just Latin either- he's on the latest Streisand record.
Orcar Stagnaro
Lincoln Goines
yes! Ruben Rodriguez !
there a killer bassist with a Cuban band named Klimax - those guys are on fire! i think his name is Ricardo Riveron.
many more, but i am drawing a blank


Thanks AG for the shout out! Stagnaro & Goines are my good buddies and excellent bassists. Nicky Orta and Julio Hernandez are the cats in Miami. Papito Hernandez lived in Puerto Rico when Paul Anka hired him and took him to Las Vegas in the 60's. He played a big part in the "Cuban Jazz" scene in the 50's. I'll try to get my CD collection from storage and post the title of a monumental Cuban Jazz recording w/ pianist Frank Emilio Flynn and drummer Guillermo Barretto. The bass player in "Klimax" is another good friend Roberto Riveron.

Easy,
RR

Ruben, como estas?
Papito played with my dad ( Alejandro "Onesimo" Garcia, trombonist, RIP) in Puerto Rico in the early 70's- I was a kid hanging out checking out Walfredo de los Reyes Sr ( who was really a trumpet player/ bandleader ) and Jr , who now everyone calls sr, and his son who played with Santana and Stevie Winwood, etc, and his brother Danny, who played with Yanni and Earth , Wind and Fire and now lives here in Vegas.
They gigged at the San Juan Hotel
I also remember being about 10 and this big ugly black guy hanging out with my dad on Sundays, they called him "Cachao" (!!!!) if i had only known then!

I am really good friends with Julito and his brother Orlando who is a burnin' drummer. Papito's ashes are near here spread in Mt Charleston.
I have a record with my dad, Papito, Manolo Badrena and Alex Acuna - by a guy named Charlie Rodrigues. Its a cool side.
Bro, Klimax is so off the chain! Riveron FLOORS me! on baby and electric- that boy on drums, Geraldo Piloto?? he is sick. Love the Timba stuff.
so cool that you are on here, man! I am a big fan...

My take on salsa vs. merengue.

MERENGUE

I'm a bassist who plays Latin music regularly. I find modern Merengue to often be a simplistic, polka-style, two-to-three chord structure musical style. It's really boring to hear from the perspective of a musician listening to the music as a whole. HOwever, to the ears of Tambora players (a two-headed skin drum that often drives the percussion section and is played sitting), Guira players (a metal gourd that fills up the "high-end" of the percussion section), and Electric Bassists, it's a source of creative ideas.

All three types of musicians I labeled above can be seen improvising and spicing up the structure, melodies, and rhythms of the style. While the piano and horn sections have repetitious or otherwise boring lines to play, the bass players, Tambora, and Guira players are free to add their spice to the general merengue rhythm.

From the point of view of electric bass players, there's a few things that stand out in modern Merengue bass playing.

1) it used to be that merengue was played by playing straight quarter notes, alternating between the Tonic and 5th of a particular chord progression. In modern Merengue, while the bass player may be keeping that pattern in their mind, they actually mute most notes they play and let the piano's comping patterns define the chord. In order to maintain a listener's sense of where the song is going, they ocassionally allow one or two notes to sound true and sustaining. It can be the tonic of a particular chord progression, or other leading notes (such as 7ths resolving to octaves, and 2nd resolving to new Tonics). But, the pattern is such that is sounds something like this

(first chord progression) dup, dop, dup, dop, dup, dop, DOOOOO--(second chord progression)Dup, dop, dup, dop,dup, dop, Dup, Dup (first chord progression), DOOOO, dup, dup, dup, dop, DOOOO...DOOOO...(new chord) Dup, dop,

in other words...the bass is providing a constant, bass-drum like "dup, dop" pattern (fingered as alternating tonics and 5ths, usually playing the 5th directly below the tonic being played), without allowing the tone to sound. Think of muting the note 90%, with only a small "taste" of the note's quality sounding, and more of a musical thud. At the discretion of the bass player and for flavoring or to move the chord progressions forward, the bass player is free to allow CERTAIN notes to ring strongly. Usually, if the "dup-dop" pattern is becoming boring, the bass player will drop one note in full sustain, and then go back to the "dup-dop" pattern, or sometimes they will play 2 or 3 notes in sequence, such as the notes right before a progression change, and the new tonic.

2) Chord playing (especially on the higher registers of the fretboard) is common, especially as embellishments (to use the classical parlance) on top of established chords. It may be used for transition or leading note progressions to the next tonic of the next chord. Sometimes two or more chords will be played in succession and in a very "Slide Guitar" manner, so it will sound like the bass is whining (whoo-aaaaah...whoo-haaah....Tonic...Dup, dop, dup,dop, and so on). Since I myself am looking to understand what chords are being played, I can't say for sure what chords are common, but any bass player that listens to most modern merengue can decipher the voicings.

3) Bass fretboard slides, up and down. They're embellishments that are often used to give the music energy (akin to a piano player in the middle of the solo playing all the white keys from the top to the bottom in exact succession). Sometimes the slides are long and coming from the high register to the low (sounding like, "PIiiiiiuuuuuummm"), and sometimes they're going upwards from low to high, but in small "spasms" (whuuu...whuuuoo...whaaaa...weeeeeeeeeeeee....TONI C). Again, anyone listening to modern merengue will recognize the long slides and the "spasm" slides upwards.

A video example of classic modern merengue playing - (http://youtube.com/watch?v=YHaXxPQJ8ao)

WHY IS THE BABY BASS NOT USED IN MODERN MERENGUE?

Because a baby-bass is limited to its dark, pingy sound, it is unable to produce the growling LOWS prominently used in modern merengue (and a B-string is needed for this, 5-string/6-string), or be EQd with the high treble necessary for the articulation, slides, slap/pop techniques, chords, and general high-register bass work that are common tools of the merengue bass player. In an emergency situation, a baby bass or any other non-treble EQ'd bass can fulfill the function of playing TONIC and 5ths in straight quarter notes and be "satisfactory", but it won't drive the band as an 5-string/6-string electric bass can, nor give the bass player much satisfaction, in terms of the stylistic freedoms that can be had using an Electric Bass.

SALSA

Salsa is a little more complex. Historically, the baby-bass has been a preferred instrument for traditional, Puerto Rican-style salsa of the 1950s-1970s, but modern salsa (as exhibited by artists such as Victor Manuelle, Michael Stuart, Marc Anthony, Gilberto Santarrosa, and others) has also showcased electric bassists.

BASIC STRUCTURE OF SALSA BASS PLAYING

The basic pattern (called the "tumbao") is the heart of salsa bass playing. At its most basic form, it can take the form of a syncopated groove alternating between Tonic and 5ths, or can take a more "straight" three-note form with the bass player always falling on the 1 of the next measure. The three notes used in this form can be combinations of TOnic-5th-Tonic, or Tonic-5th-Octave(high), or Tonic-5th-(5th, octave lower), or Tonic-5th-Octave(high) followed by (Octave-High)-down 5th-original Tonic(low). Listening to salsa albums, one can see the different bassline forms described, but these are the basic forms that make most of the salsa bass lines of the 1950s-1970s.

BABY BASS EMBELLISHMENTS

To break the monotony of this structure, some baby bass players include leading notes (again, 7ths to 8ths or 2nds to Tonics) or small bassline embellishments that serve to give "spice" to the bass line, but the usually return to the regular Tonic and 5th "tumbao" soon after. The use of harmonics around the higher register of the fingerboard is also common as a way of extending the range of the baby bass (4-string) and to accentuate certain notes with a bell-like "ping". Baby bass players that are influenced by jazz may also include walking-bass patterns that do not usually last long (but as ways of strengthening a particular section's transition to a new chord progression). For this type of harmonics usage, listen to bass players like Maximo Rodriguez (of the Spanish Harlem Orchestra).

It's also characteristic of salsa bass players (particularly baby bass players) to double piano lines and play in "unison" in particular sections. Transition sections between solo voice A-sections that are going to be followed by the "mambo" sections (the "descarga" or "discharge" sections where Call-and Response choruses are song and the band usually cooks up in energy and loudness) are often places where you will find these "unison" patterns. They can also be usually found in introductions or 'outros', which are often just the same as the as the introduction. This is where the baby bass gets its "percussive" reputation. Since these lines are often intricate and complex, the baby bass becomes an integral, percussive instrument (along with the rest of the rhythm section) in communicating the melody in these sections. It's stops serving as a groove-setting bass instrument and becomes part of the melody-making range in a band.

here's a video example of baby bass playing that showcases some of the above ideas - (http://youtube.com/watch?v=R79rTyE026M)

ELECTRIC BASSES IN SALSA (Baby Bass imitaters and "The New School")

There's two types of electric bassists in salsa, and you can usually tell what style of bass player you're about to listen to by the way they EQ their electric bass.

The "Bobby Valentin" school of Electric Bassists (named after influential bassist and bandleader, Bobby Valentin) represents the "Baby Bass imitaters". They usually EQ their electric bass to sound as much as possible as the warm, dark, little-definition sound of the Baby Bass, and they usually play grooves that imitate the classic Baby Bass salsa patterns. In fact, Bobby Valentin is now known for playing an Ampeg Scroll Bass (which is the closest you can come to sounding like a classic Ampeg Baby Bass on an electric Bass instrument).

Here's a video Bobby Valentin himself - http://youtube.com/watch?v=uifamFgObfw

The "New School" of Bass players are defined more by: radically superior techniques, grooves, and ideas (usually taken from influential jazz bassists, such as Jaco Pastorius, Victor Wooten, Stanley Clarke, etc.) They're bass playing can be varied,

but they often include:

1) Less sustain in their classic Baby bass patterns...more funky embellishments in between notes of the patterns, or a general feeling of less "hanging back" on the groove, and more of a funky, "pushing forward". Creative use of muting the strings for controlling the sustain and not allowing a note to sustain until the next one (as it is common in Baby bass players).

2) Breaks away from the classic Baby Bass pattern and the incorporation of Major and Minor scale based arpeggios (including patterns that go from Tonic-3rd,5th and to the Octave). Entire, spider-like patterns can be played, simply on Major/Minor arpeggios going upward and downward on the fretboard, as opposed to a strict adherence to Tonic and 5ths.

3) Funky transition embellishments that can sound very much like the type of bass licks one hears in Jazz and Funk bass players.

4) The use of Slap/Pop techniques, while using Tonic and 5ths or other Major/Minor scale progressions

5) Merengue-style use of chords in the higher register as transition embellishments (listen to bassist Sal Cuevas on most albums of Ruben Blades and Willie Colon)

6) **** (more common in Cuban "Timba" bass players - go here for an explanation of Timba - http://timba.com/fans/timba101.asp) - Radically funky counter-rhythmical and percussive bass patterns that do not follow the classic "salsa swing" but instead provide tension-creating and releasing forms. Bass players to listen for this would include the great Feliciano Arango of Cuba's "NG La Banda" or this board's very own Ruben Rodriguez (of NYC salsa fame). Here's a video of the great Feliciano Arango playing a very classic Timba bass-line (http://youtube.com/watch?v=OIBc5msFdRc)

7) High-Trebled EQ, with an emphasis on articulation for higher-fretboard work, slap/pop technique, and a preference for 5/6string basses for growling lows.

An example of the New School is this video of the band DLG (Ruben Rodriguez playing electric bass) - (http://youtube.com/watch?v=lWpPGgatDOA)



DO "CLASSIC" SALSEROS and "NEW SCHOOLERS" get along?

As a bass player who mostly enjoys and identifies with the "New School", this is my take (and I wanted to do this to save non-Latin bass players the troubles of not knowing).

I don't think Classic Salseros and New Schoolers get along. each style has its beauty and place, but, my personal experience has been that if a particular salsa or latin-jazz groups membership includes people who love and play more of the old-school traditional salsa/latin-jazz, they will not appreciate a New School bass player. In fact, you're asking for either a reputation as an "OVERPLAYER" or you will get band members screaming at you, "AFINCA!" (play more in pocket!). Whereas, if you're playing with a modern salsa or Timba band, you'll get incredulous look from the band if you're not putting in more spice and New School ideas. You'll be "too square" for them.

The best way to gauge this is to be very frank with the musicians about what you intend to do. Find out what are their influences and what sound they are going for. If they want to recreate the classic sound of past salsa bands (like Sonora Poncena, El Gran Combo, Ismael Rivera, or Ray Barretto/Tito Puente's style of latin-jazz etc), that should be your cue to EQ your bass like a Baby Bass and play some of the classic patterns. However, if the group includes musicians who want their band to sound more like today's modern latin-jazz bands (think Caribbean Jazz Project) or modern salsa (think DLG, Marc Anthony, etc.), then you EQ your electric in a way that sounds more like the EQ of Jaco Pastorius, Victor Wooten, etc. Your bass playing patterns can be a little more funky and free and incorporate the ideas of the New School.

It's crucial to finding this out, because when I was starting out and was into "showing off" my bass playing, I lost some gigs on the reputation of being an "overplayer" that didn't "afinca". IN some bands, I'd get high-fives for energizing the
rhythm section...in other bands, I'd get dirty looks from the rest of the rhythm section. Usually, the younger the band and the more musically versatile/trained the musicians, the more likely I could play more New School patterns. If I was playing with people above 40 years of age or with a group of musicians that were more constricted to basic Salsa, I'd have to stick to Old-School. Nowadays, I can make this judgment early on, and just play what is wanted and "keep the gig". I hate having to stay on Tonic to 5th Baby Bass patterns, but I do it if I get the sense that the rhythm section is giving me the "stop overplaying" eye. If I feel encouragement from the rest of the band, I ease out a little and funkify more.

So, my advice...listen to both types of bass playing and learn to EQ your electrics to match the sounds accordingly. When in doubt, "AFINCA!" (play simpler and in pocket), go with the Baby Bass patterns. They're safe, they'll work, the band won't fall apart, and you'll keep the gig.

I heard "Pintame" by Elvis Crespo and I couldn't believe my ears. Who is the bassist?!?! I have conflicting information. I did a web search and I came up with 2 guys:

Andy Gonzalez & Miguel Gonzalez

My guess is that it's Miguel. Am I right?

I need to hear more playing like on Pintame. Can you guys direct me to more of THAT.

Thanks,
Joe

I'd venture that it's Miguel. Andy Gonzalez is one of the more respected, "old school" upright bass players, and is mostly known for his work with his brother Jerry Gonzalez in the Ft. Apache Band (as well as work with the royalty of latin-jazz, Tito Puente, Eddie Palmieri, etc). I'm not even sure if he plays electric bass (or uses it enough to be professionally known for it). Since Elvis Crespo's brand of merengue is more modern, i'd doubt it was Andy Gonzalez behind that great electric bass work.

That's one of the coolest things of latin bass recordings: The lines are clearly distinguishable. I'm a true rock lover, but so many times I've complaint about many basslines that can be felt, but can't be heard because a wall of guitars buries the actual notes the bassist is playing. Roger Glover comes to mind. Most of the times I have a tough time trying to figure out the exact notes he plays. Chord changes are really easy to figure out, but most of the times I have to guess the actual notes played by him.

Two great latin bassists that haven't been mentioned (both from Cuba): Omar Hernández, who played with a band called "Cuarto Espacio". I know he will make your jaws drop. You can download an mp3 to hear him in action from this link:

http://s23.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=35WD18FCUPQP50K9QCUVG5SPZY

But this is mostly about virtousistic bass playing. If you want to hear a great latin groove by a superb player, check this mp3 by a band called "NG La Banda" with Feliciano Arango on bass. Here's the link:

http://s23.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=20E8GPMNLMJVN1LKZ12H1Z92FZ

And last but not least, the great Carlos Del Puerto with Irakere (cool bass solo here):

http://s12.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=2DG8KIAT4TY6X35ODWM6TQ6TMY

Hope you enjoy these recordings. Happy listening!

all of the links dont work, can you re-post them plz????

Check out: Los Amigos Invisibles. They are a Latin/Funk/Disco band. They are AWESOME and their bass player is really good too. They have 4 albums, I like em all.

all of the links dont work, can you re-post them plz????

Hey man, I've just read your post. I'll upload the songs again tonight.

Awesome thread!!!

all of the links dont work, can you re-post them plz????

OK. Here they are again (and more!).

- Two tunes by Irakere with Carlos Del Puerto on bass:

Concierto Para Metales (http://media.putfile.com/Irakere---Concierto-Para-Metales)

Estela Va A Estallar (http://media.putfile.com/Irakere---Estela-Va-A-Estallar)

- Two tunes by NG La Banda with Feliciano Arango on bass:

Santa Palabra (http://media.putfile.com/NG-La-Banda---Santa-Palabra)

La Bruja (http://media.putfile.com/NG-La-Banda---La-Bruja)

- From Cuarto Espacio with Omar Hernández on bass:

Clave En Bajo Bien Temperado (http://media.putfile.com/Cuarto-Espacio---Clave-En-Bajo-Bien-Temperado)


Enjoy! :)

How're you supposed to dance if you can't hear the clave? :D

I think tt's really all about feeling the clave.


I'm curious as to why you're stipulating only electric, when so much latin/latin-jazz is done on upright. This seems like a pretty silly way of cutting your listening to "latin-lite."


What's your definition of "latin-lite"?

Cachao
Carlos Del Puerto
Louie Colon
Johnny Torres

Fania label

for electric: bobby valentin, carlos del puerto, juan formell
for upright: cachao, cachaito, andy gonzalez