Mods, feel free to move this wherever you want, but I thought the classifieds was the most appropriate place to post this.


I get about 2 or 3 requests a month from people asking me to help them track down someone who has ripped them off on a transaction on eBay, HC, Bassgear, etc. I'm more than happy to help out, but the one thing I have noticed is that a lot of people don't protect themselves as much as they could. Here's a little checklist to go through that I posted over on the Dudepit that can help you guys avoid a lot of grief when doing a deal with someone you don't know.

In the future, I hope everyone here checks out people before they do business with them. A lot of you guys here buy and sell a lot of gear, and if you know the person...great. But if not make sure you get a home phone# a work phone # a cell phone# home address etc. check out the info too. Call the person. If you think they gave you a cell# as a home or work # - check it out here:
www.fonefinder.net/

It will tell you if it's a land line or a cell and what city it goes to.

Reverse the phone#s and addresses they gave you to see where they go. Argali is really good for this. You can also reverse the address.

Just go to www.argali.com and download their program.

If you think the address is a mail drop you can check that out as well at http://www.finaid.com/scholarships/maildropsearch.phtml

If you want to find out who owns the address they give you to send payment to you can also go to
http://www.netronline.com/public_records.htm

Select the state and county of the address. A lot of them have online databases, but you can call the tax assessor as well and find out who owns that property.

These are just a few of the free online resouces you can use to protect yourself and verify the information the seller gives you is accurate.

Ask for references from other people they have done business with. If I'm shelling out $100 for an effect pedal or $3000 for a bass, I want to know if the person is honest or not,

Make sure the info they give you checks out before you give up any of your hard earned cash. An honest seller won't be offended in the least when you ask them for this info.

Very good post!

Great info!

Maybe we could talk the mods into making this a sticky - it's great info!

Great info. I'd like to add one of my basics:

If it smells funny, walk away. You started the day without it, it probably won't kill you to end it the same way.

Great info. I'd like to add one of my basics:

If it smells funny, walk away. You started the day without it, it probably won't kill you to end it the same way.
If I always followed that rule, I would never eat any Mexican food! :D

BTW Great post - this should be stickied at the top of the forum!

I would request this become a sticky... it is a really good post

Definitely. Been a fan of Juggs for a while now. He knows his stuff, big time.

ditto on the sticky!

ditto on the sticky!

Jugghaid, you sure ain't no "jugghaid".......... excellent info.

Also, if the other party checks out - even a homemade receipt with "Received and Paid in Full" written on it by the buyer/seller holds up in court.

No more, "Dude! I never got your check/money order!"

Great post, Jugghaid!:cool: I am going to sticky this one for now. Might also be a good idea to eventually put this in the site FAQ.

Thanks for the kind words gentlemen. I get real tired of seeing my bass playing brethren getting ripped off.

Jugghaid, you sure ain't no "jugghaid".......... excellent info.

Also, if the other party checks out - even a homemade receipt with "Received and Paid in Full" written on it by the buyer/seller holds up in court.

No more, "Dude! I never got your check/money order!"

I ALWAYS retain the receipt of the money order I purchase until well AFTER I get the item that I bought just in case anybody tries to play any funny business. I haven't been ripped off yet, and I hope I never am!

Just to add to this (and I know that this scam has been mentioned on other threads, but it's probably best to put it on a sticky thread):

The scam in which the "interested buyer" states that he will be issuing a cashier's check from a bank and that a third party will be involved in the shipment continues to rear its ugly head.

I just placed an ad on a new music classifieds site and received three 3-mails in one day from three different addresses attempting the same scam.

The English is typically broken and the spelling/grammar are usually pretty poor - this is at least one component of these e-mail "offers".

BEWARE of these offers! They are scams and you will NEVER see dime one.

Here is an example of the e-mails that you may receive:

Dear Seller,
I am interested in your advert.i will need to know the last price you will be selling as i am ready to make an offer.I will be paying with a cashire's check drawn from a US bank therefore i hope this payment method is okay with you.If the payment method is okay do get back to me asap with your full name,contact address and phone number so that the cheque can be issued asap. Concerning the shippment,i will need you to get back to me so that we can discuss on this .i am already making an arrangement with a shipper of mine who will be coming for the pick up. I hope to read back from you soonest.

That kind of scam is like the P-P-P-Powerbook. Escrow services are not a good way to go. It takes as muh faith to just send money and hope it gets there as it does to use an escrow service. Good post, Mr. Boulder!

I just completed another deal on TB. Never been ripped off yet.

The bass way to be safe is to just deal with the TB "family". No one gets ripped off here. If they do, there are enough of us around the country to track down the offender, and hang them from their toe nails.

-Mike

A helpful hint from todd 4ta, for when things really turn to s... poo.

... I've also opened a case with the FBI's new Internet Fraud unit and they have said they will definitely be able to track him down. The website is here IFCC (http://www.ifccfbi.gov/index.asp) in case anyone else needs it. They have a lot of good info on there.

i havn't looked on this thread in a good while. this is a really good thread btw.
i think that if anyone has any doubt at all about the product's quality and everything, that they probably should stay away from it, unless they can play it or whatever in person.
I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT ANYONE ON TB. i don't that anyone has gotten ripped off in the TB "family", as previously said.

Perhaps let me add something to Planet Boulder's story.

I got an email of somebody who was interested in my Streamer Bass (which I still have for sale over here on TB too anyway) and was very fast in replying. Constantly talking about husband, kids etc... this woman keeps talking about her man which arranges shipment and payment.

Now be aware... (I still don't hope they are one of these people anyway)... there are some people who use the construction of letting someone else on their behalf pay the price of whatever you are having for sale. In our language: A nice bass, cab... amplifier. But then they send a larger sum of money to you, while paying with a false cheque. The bank takes back this amount of your bank account, while you already sent the bass to the buyer and remit the amount which is left after taking your costs into account.

So in the end you loose the bass, a certain amount of money AND the price of the bass in the end, because your bank takes it back from your bank account. A friend of me noticed this repetitive construction in this case and it can be used by a lot of people.


That's why I took a Paypal membership! Hopefully they just pay the bass, but I'm a bit frightened they won't.....

Mods, feel free to move this wherever you want, but I thought the classifieds was the most appropriate place to post this.


I get about 2 or 3 requests a month from people asking me to help them track down someone who has ripped them off on a transaction on eBay, HC, Bassgear, etc. I'm more than happy to help out, but the one thing I have noticed is that a lot of people don't protect themselves as much as they could. Here's a little checklist to go through that I posted over on the Dudepit that can help you guys avoid a lot of grief when doing a deal with someone you don't know.

In the future, I hope everyone here checks out people before they do business with them. A lot of you guys here buy and sell a lot of gear, and if you know the person...great. But if not make sure you get a home phone# a work phone # a cell phone# home address etc. check out the info too. Call the person. If you think they gave you a cell# as a home or work # - check it out here:
www.fonefinder.net/

It will tell you if it's a land line or a cell and what city it goes to.

Reverse the phone#s and addresses they gave you to see where they go. Argali is really good for this. You can also reverse the address.

Just go to www.argali.com and download their program.

If you think the address is a mail drop you can check that out as well at http://www.finaid.com/scholarships/maildropsearch.phtml

If you want to find out who owns the address they give you to send payment to you can also go to
www.skipease.com/property.html

Select the state and county of the address. A lot of them have online databases, but you can call the tax assessor as well and find out who owns that property.

These are just a few of the free online resouces you can use to protect yourself and verify the information the seller gives you is accurate.

Ask for references from other people they have done business with. If I'm shelling out $100 for an effect pedal or $3000 for a bass, I want to know if the person is honest or not,

Make sure the info they give you checks out before you give up any of your hard earned cash. An honest seller won't be offended in the least when you ask them for this info.
Excellent info my man. Much appreciated. However, I might add that in the past, I have exchanged a scanned copy of each person's drivers liscense in addition to a home address. This seems to be fool proof IMO, and makes both parties comfortable.

Excellent info my man. Much appreciated. However, I might add that in the past, I have exchanged a scanned copy of each person's drivers liscense in addition to a home address. This seems to be fool proof IMO, and makes both parties comfortable.
Good suggestion.

Is it safe to give your checkings account number + routing number of your bank to a stranger so that he can wire the money directly to your account when you sell a bass?

Especially when the buyer is in a different country, it is easier for him to use a wire transfer than mailing a bank check to you.

But,I just don't know if it is safe though. Can someone potentially take money from your checkings account if they have the account number and your name?

Is it safe to give your checkings account number + routing number of your bank to a stranger so that he can wire the money directly to your account when you sell a bass?

Especially when the buyer is in a different country, it is easier for him to use a wire transfer than mailing a bank check to you.

But,I just don't know if it is safe though. Can someone potentially take money from your checkings account if they have the account number and your name?

Don't do this. It is another way that people can access your account. They can post a withdrawl with this info, and it will look totally legit. Have them send you an international money order, and then you know it is good. It has to be paid for before it can be sent, so it's value is there. A check can be stopped. Always go with money orders if you are not sure, they are probably one of the safest ways to do a transaction, and remember to let everything clear first.

Don't do this. It is another way that people can access your account. They can post a withdrawl with this info, and it will look totally legit. Have them send you an international money order, and then you know it is good. It has to be paid for before it can be sent, so it's value is there. A check can be stopped. Always go with money orders if you are not sure, they are probably one of the safest ways to do a transaction, and remember to let everything clear first.
I agree. Use an escrow service.

Does anyone use paypal?? They seem to protect both parties

never been ripped off so far...... most of my purchases are off ebay.

Does anyone use paypal?? They seem to protect both parties
yup... it offers some form of protection.... i think.

Not an appropriate use of the For Sale forums or this thread. Go post about it in the Feedback Forum.

Just to add to this (and I know that this scam has been mentioned on other threads, but it's probably best to put it on a sticky thread):

The scam in which the "interested buyer" states that he will be issuing a cashier's check from a bank and that a third party will be involved in the shipment continues to rear its ugly head.

I just placed an ad on a new music classifieds site and received three 3-mails in one day from three different addresses attempting the same scam.

The English is typically broken and the spelling/grammar are usually pretty poor - this is at least one component of these e-mail "offers".

BEWARE of these offers! They are scams and you will NEVER see dime one.

Here is an example of the e-mails that you may receive:

Amazing, Someone is currently using this scam on me! They also insist you to send the money via Western Union as soon as the "cashier's check" gets deposited. They even offer to give you compensation for being inconvenienced!( $100 in my case) This person also never even asked the condition of the bass! What really cracked me up is that the person claimed she was an older lady from Chelsea England (buying a Stingray 5!!) and "her" e-mail address was maryjohnson@dbzmail.com. That's "Dragonball Z mail!! I saved all the e-mails. If you guys want I will post them here so you can see ezactly what to look for.
BTW I posted my ad on bassgear.com not on TB.
From now on I am only dealing with you guys.

Peace

Some repitition of what's already been stated, but here's a link to the CraigsList scams page:
http://www.craigslist.org/about/scams.html

I've received two attempts to scam me in the last 2 days.

The first:
Hello,
I saw your advert over the web and am much interested in buying it. I live in CANADA,I will be responsible for the shippment down to my location, so please kindly write me back with your last offering price.I will also need some of its recent pics,and will like to know its present condition .I am Looking forward to your soonest reply.
MY REGARDS AND WILL LIKE YOU TO CONTACT ME DIRECTLY WITH MY EMAIL ADDRESS m_bartons6@yahoo.com

Followed by a second email from him:
Greetings,
Everything sounds well and am okay with the prize $2100 and I will be offering you $2200 for it so i will want you to keep other buyer's off.Concerning payment I have a friend in the state who is ready to issue you a Certified Cashier's check in Usa funds since I don't have the funds in your currency. For convinient and easy transaction, I have a liable shipping agent who'd be responsible for the shipping as soon as you receive payment for the BASS .I will therefore need the following information of yours to forward to my friend before he sends the check.....
NAME IN FULL........
ADDRESS IN FULL..........
STATE..............
ZIPCODE........
COUNTRY.........
CELL/OFFICE/HOME PHONE NUMBER.......
I await your soonest reply
MY REGARDS

The third party thing got my attention at first. I mean, he could just walk down to any bank here and get a US funds money order. It would be exactly the same as a Canadian one except for US dollars. Also, in my reply I said I'd take $2300 CDN for the bass and from the reply email he obviously didn't know what CDN meant. Also he has a friend in the state... I'm not in the US, which he must not have understood from the bassgear post. Plus, no one in Canada speaks like that.

Then the much more obvious scam:
We are interested in buying your above mentioned Warwick Dolphin Pro I 4 String at advertised rate. Bass will be picked up from your location for onward shipping to London. Cost and modalities of shipping to be born by us.

Payment for the purchase is by check through a debtor in US. The debtor owes us higher than our purchase. He will therefore be sending you a check for $7,000 to cover the cost of our order, as well as the Shipping costs.

On receipt of the check, you will cash and deduct the cost of our order .The balance you will send as we would instruct you to the Agency that will ship the bass to us. If this arrangement suites you fine, please send us your address where to send the check, as well as the name to be on it. Also send us your phone number for easy communication.
Looking forward to hearing from you.

Thank you.

Best Regards

MR. BOB WILSON.

Well, that's one's pretty obvious since the bass I'm selling isn't a Warwick at all. It's a Rob Allen. Also $7000 check... (alarms go off).

Maybe someone can use this to recognize something if they get sent a scam.

To add, if you are going to pay with credit card over the internet many of today's credit card companies allow you to make a temporary card for online purchase. Since i have MBNA I will use that as an example. On their website I can log into my account and goto ShopSafe. That allows me to create a temporary credit card number. I defined the spending limit and expiration time (minimum 2 months for MBNA), they spit out a number. That way if someone does steal your number on the internet you minimize your losses.

IMO, reading through some of these scam emails sheds some light on how awkward they sound and ultimately how fishy they smell. :eyebrow:

The balance you will send

Mmmmm. yes jedi The balance you will send.

Friggin Yoda is trying to scam us out of all our gear. :)

I just bought an Allen guitar amp off of Harmony Central classifieds, and was a bit nervous. I arranged with the seller to send half of the payment via USPS money order, then he'd send the amp, then I'd send the rest. That way, we were equally splitting the risk of getting ripped off. Worked out great, only downside was that I had to pay for 2 money orders and 2 priority mails.

It always scares them off that I tell them I'll cash the check and keep the tip. They never seem to write back after that.....

:D

It always scares them off that I tell them I'll cash the check and keep the tip. They never seem to write back after that.....

:D

I guess I'm lucky that nobody has tried to scam me (knock on wood), or maybe I'm too cautious. But how does offering more money for what something is worth a scam?

I'm assuming either their payment does clear, and the bass is shipped before and it never comes back. Or is this some sort of money laundering scheme? Where they just give you $2000 to send them $5000?

It can take a while for fake money orders/cashier's checks to be detected--legally, your bank has to make those funds available to you within 5 days, but it can take them weeks to find out the MO/CC was bogus.

The ONLY reason anyone is going to offer you a payment like that for way over what something's worth and ask you to sent to difference back is to scam you.

See these Tips for Fake Check Scams: http://www.fraud.org/tips/internet/fakecheck.htm

Mike

Sometimes I opt not to sell gear via eBay. If I have something for private sale (not through eBay) and I'm not going to be seeing the buyer face-to-face, I offer to create a "buy-it-now" auction on eBay at the amount we agreed upon. This can increase the comfort factor for the buyer.

For stuff I'm buying that's not listed through eBay, I'll often request they create a buy-it-now auction, provided the other party already has an eBay account with a decent amount of feedback, all positive.

I believe we're less likely to be scammed this way, since eBayers don't want to have bad feedback. The downside is that you have to pay eBay a seller's fee, but that can be built into the price for the mutual "protection" by eBay.

It's worked well for me so far!

Chris

hey i just want to say thanks heaps for all this information!

i had been drooling over a bass that was on ebay. i was really keen to buy it, and sometimes that gets in the way of good judgement. It was all just a little bit fishy. the guy had all positive feedback, but only 6 or something, all for buying (things between about $500 and $2000). he was fairly slow to answer his emails and simply didn't respond when i asked for some additional photo's and information. Also, he would only accept payment by check or money order, which i found a little strange.

Anyway, i happened upon this thread just in time. I requested the sellers information from ebay then downloaded the Argali program that jugghaid mentioned. used the reverse phone number search and subsequently found that the number the guy had registered didn't actually exist. i even double checked, searching for his name in the state he said he was from, and the guy doesn't exist!!

i'm so glad i came accross all this info at such a crucial time, because i was starting to talk myself into buying it anyway. It's a lot harder when you really want it!!

so, thanks so much to jugghaid for all that awesome info, i really appreciate it!

like brad johnson said, if it smells funny, walk away. i came way too close to losing a serious amount of money.

THANKS AGAIN!

over and out,
andy.

hey i just want to say thanks heaps for all this information!

i had been drooling over a bass that was on ebay. i was really keen to buy it, and sometimes that gets in the way of good judgement. It was all just a little bit fishy. the guy had all positive feedback, but only 6 or something, all for buying (things between about $500 and $2000). he was fairly slow to answer his emails and simply didn't respond when i asked for some additional photo's and information. Also, he would only accept payment by check or money order, which i found a little strange.

Anyway, i happened upon this thread just in time. I requested the sellers information from ebay then downloaded the Argali program that jugghaid mentioned. used the reverse phone number search and subsequently found that the number the guy had registered didn't actually exist. i even double checked, searching for his name in the state he said he was from, and the guy doesn't exist!!

i'm so glad i came accross all this info at such a crucial time, because i was starting to talk myself into buying it anyway. It's a lot harder when you really want it!!

so, thanks so much to jugghaid for all that awesome info, i really appreciate it!

like brad johnson said, if it smells funny, walk away. i came way too close to losing a serious amount of money.

THANKS AGAIN!

over and out,
andy.
Glad to help bro. A good rule of thumb for anyone is "If it doesn't feel right, don't do it....walk away."

Amen Brother
Yo.

i ask you some infos...i contacted a guy that put a thread on bassgear.com , for a bass that i'm really interested....the seller seems very gentle and send me all infos,pics,and i talked with him also on messanger....i was thinking about way of paying...i always used paypal but in ebay auction..never did in a private transaction (consider that i'm in Italy and the seller is in U.s.a) , paypal seems me the most secure way to go....he asked me also if i wanted to do a check for avoid paying paypal fees...but it will take a looong time....
what you think paypal is enough sure in my situation?i will check also all info about adresses and phone number with the sites are in these post....other tips to give me?thanx a lot

i ask you some infos...i contacted a guy that put a thread on bassgear.com , for a bass that i'm really interested....the seller seems very gentle and send me all infos,pics,and i talked with him also on messanger....i was thinking about way of paying...i always used paypal but in ebay auction..never did in a private transaction (consider that i'm in Italy and the seller is in U.s.a) , paypal seems me the most secure way to go....he asked me also if i wanted to do a check for avoid paying paypal fees...but it will take a looong time....
what you think paypal is enough sure in my situation?i will check also all info about adresses and phone number with the sites are in these post....other tips to give me?thanx a lot
I'm interested in this too. I'm pretty close to closing a deal here on TB and I'm on a similar situation (seller in USA, me in Greece) and I'd like to know if going through ebay is safer than just paypal.

First, TB has a feedback system somewhat like ebay, where you can get a feel for how an individual might deal with you, based on previous transactions. Many TB'ers also have ebay identities, which provides similar experiences in that venue.


About handling problems, I once had a bad experience with an ebay seller (a "square-trade" member with decent feedback) who kept coming up with reasons not to ship my product, which I had paid for using paypal. After patiently waiting several weeks, I initiated a complaint with ebay. Howver,they immediately deferred to paypal and refused to process a claim until paypal had completed an investigation/resolution process. If you think about it, that protocol keeps the system from being clogged with multiple claims on the same transaction. While it took a few weeks (time for the seller to "respond" to my charges of non-delivery), paypal eventually reversed the creditcard charge. BTW, I'm pretty sure paypal is owned by ebay.

So, to answer your question, paypal provides the buyer protection, although ebay also has other protections and "guarantees" which I have had no experience with (thank goodness, I haven't needed them!). Your credit card also has a dispute procedure if something goes wrong. although my experiences there lead me to suspect their allegiences somewhat.

A check offers none of these protections, and especially in international transactions, it is the method I would absolutely avoid.

Don't do this. It is another way that people can access your account. They can post a withdrawl with this info, and it will look totally legit. Have them send you an international money order, and then you know it is good. It has to be paid for before it can be sent, so it's value is there. A check can be stopped. Always go with money orders if you are not sure, they are probably one of the safest ways to do a transaction, and remember to let everything clear first.
I've used Post Office international money orders in the past, to good effect. They're very safe.

how do money order transactions work?

Can I buy a money order with my credit card?

I've never bought anything from someone without going through Ebay or buying from an online store. I'm considering buying a bass of these forums. If a guy prefers USPS money order--does a money order offer any protection?

If I send him a usps money order for let's say $800 and he cashes it and doesn't send me a bass, then what? Do I just lose the money and try to sue him? Of course I will check the guy out but I just want to understand how money order transactions work.

A PO Box money order is bought from the post office with either cash or debit, and made out like a check to the seller. It's a pretty handy way to do things because:

- You can make a payment to an international seller easier than with a bank check. (You have to specify the country.)
- You're already at the Post Office, so you can mail it right there.
- You can track your mail/check.
- plus there's a whole bunch of info on the USPO website about how they're the safest thing out there, so that would be a good place to start to get particulars. For me it was a convenience thing, and I already had references for the guy.

None of those sites provided on the original post work for my name or address so I wouldn't trust them too much.

But asking for references is a good idea, but make sure the references are legit by checking post history etc.

Just to add to this (and I know that this scam has been mentioned on other threads, but it's probably best to put it on a sticky thread):

The scam in which the "interested buyer" states that he will be issuing a cashier's check from a bank and that a third party will be involved in the shipment continues to rear its ugly head.

I just placed an ad on a new music classifieds site and received three 3-mails in one day from three different addresses attempting the same scam.

The English is typically broken and the spelling/grammar are usually pretty poor - this is at least one component of these e-mail "offers".

BEWARE of these offers! They are scams and you will NEVER see dime one.

Here is an example of the e-mails that you may receive:

:eyebrow:

I've got a bass on here and BG and I've gotten about 5 of these types of inquiries. I finally replied to a guy today with this.

"For future scams...

If you're going to try ripping anyone of if the future LEARN THE ENGLISH LANGUAGE!!!

P.S. Mix in a little Spell Check! :hmm: "

From "Cynthia Collins"

Hello,

** In response to your ad on craigslist,i will like to inquire* regarding the conditions of this item.

* Plz get back to me in full details with the conditions so i can proceed with immediate purchase.Best Regards.

...second email:

Thanks for your quick response towards my request..I like to proceed with the immediate payment of the kustom KBA100 bass amp* through my United State Postal Money Order account.

As far as the condition, i will be offering you 210.00 USD for this item. So i will like you to close the auction of this item so we could proceed with the transaction.

Moreso, the shipping cost will be handled by me which you will not be charge a penny for as soon as the payment has been confirmed, i will email you the fedex shipping label and invoice you will paste on the package which you will have the procedure to follow above it.

* So if my offer is accepted, do get back to me with your full name, adress and phone number, moreover do not forget to close the auction like i have said earlier.

***** Thanks, I will be expecting a quick responses of yours.



My reply:

Cynthia,

Apparently you aren't a native English speaker or have failed out of
one of America's finest schools. Your poor spelling and grammar are a
danger to public health, and I immediately told you that this is a
CASH ONLY, PAYMENT ON DELIVERY deal. It amazes me that you repled
within three minutes of my response to you; I guess you're really
desperate for unintelligent people ready to be bamboozled tonight.

By the way, not only does your bold font make me want to shove a fork
in my eye and force raw meat down a vegiterian's throat, but also
NOTHING on craigslist is in any form of an auction.

If you still want to buy this amp after my due prejudice to you,
you're more than welcome. Otherwise shove your fist up your ass, you
scamming piece of ****.

-Christian


:smug: :rollno:

A scam that's becoming more common on ebay are supposed "Second Chance Offers." Not that these are never legit, but I guess this is one way scammers are trying to get people to fork over $$. I had a limited amount of money to put into a new bass a couple of weeks ago and had my eye on a few. I put in a bid on the ones I was interested in (I bid what I could afford knowing there was a veeeery small chance I'd win any but the MIA Fender Jazz I ended up winning). Anyway, while the Jazz was on it's way to me, I get an emal (not through my ebay message system) from a guy who claimed to be the seller of a 57 p-bass reissue I had placed a bid on. He said the winning bidder had bailed, so I could purchase the bass instead. When I looked back, I realized that about, oh, ten people had bid higher than me. In addition, and this is the kicker, I was bidding on a brand new version (white blonde) and my bid was $500. My new bass was already on the way and this smelled fishy, so I paid little attention and simply replied "Dude, if that many people passed and your selling point is down to $500, I'd just start over and post it again." Very soon after that, I got several messages saying we could handle it through ebay, and that all he would need is my ebay info and my address (not exactly sure what he could do with this info... maybe he'd try to go further if I was dumb enough to play along). Like everyone else's examples, the english was horrible. I eventually contacted the actual seller to let him know what was happening and he confirmed that it wasn't him contacting me. He told me "they got me on the same thing" about a year ago. The scammer gave up when I told him "looks like a great deal to me, just respond to the message I sent to the seller's account on ebay!"

I would like to advise T'bers to be careful with paypal transactions.

they have limited my account after receiving payment for a bass I sold here on TB, and requested for documentation to prove my identity and proof of shipping.

I have faxed the information, and they mailed me confirming it, and that my account would be reviewed, yet no action has been taken, my account remains unbale to move funds, yet they are present in my account balance.

I would like to advise T'bers to be careful with paypal transactions.

they have limited my account after receiving payment for a bass I sold here on TB, and requested for documentation to prove my identity and proof of shipping.

I have faxed the information, and they mailed me confirming it, and that my account would be reviewed, yet no action has been taken, my account remains unbale to move funds, yet they are present in my account balance.

Thanks for the heads-up. I would think Paypal would state this in their policy?

Thanks for the heads-up. I would think Paypal would state this in their policy?


I would advise you to search for info online on paypal. It's not rare. Prepare to get shocked abou their "policies"

I'm pretty sure at this point that my money can be lost in their hands, my only hope is to form a complaint to my local consumer defense association and perhaps get in contact with UK financial authorities.

If you have a paypal account I would avise you to close it and change any cards or accounts that you have registered with them.

I just received the "second chance scam" e-mail after losing an action. Here they are to serve as a warning and an example:

Hi

You are one of the my bidders!
I issued this Second Chance Offer because the highest bidder backed out
from this transaction, he came up with an excuse at the last moment,after
winning my auction. If you want to buy it just let me know,because the
transaction it is handled by eBay. There are a lots of bidders who bid on
the
auction for fun and i hope you are serious and we can make a clear deal.
I`m on my honeymoon ( in England ) but that is no problem because the item
is located back home and I will get somebody to deliver it to you ...no
problems(for free).The deal will go strictly according to eBay's rules and
policy regarding to the second chance offer .Also, a refund policy will be
included so that you will have time to inspect the product. You can see in
the rules of the second chance you can buy the item at the price of your
last bid! Because I've changed my address and eBay has my previous one
recorded I am offering to pay for all shipping & insurance fees,also,a 30
day return policy will be included.So, if you are really interested, now all
you have to do is to send me exactly those informations:

First name:
Last name:
Address:
City/State:
Country:
Zip:
Phone Number:
Total amount:

I will forward the email with our details to eBay.
In short time, they will contact you with an Invoice in order to
complete this transaction!
I am dealing only through eBay!!!

Thank you for understanding!

>To: Tim Spencer <timspencer2003@hotmail.com>
>Subject: Re: Good News! eBay Item #190021699425 - still available for
>purchase!
>Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2006 8:21:53 -0700
>
>
>---- Tim Spencer <timspencer2003@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > Please excuse me for this unexpected message. I am the seller of the
>ebay
> > Item number " 190021699425 " --> " Carvin Icon 5-String Bass-Ash/Flamed
> > Koa/Birdseye Maple " .
> > I've just been contacted by the eBay staff who informed me that the
>winner
> > of the item I sold, withdrew his bidding and was rejected due to
>security
> > reasons ( either failed to follow through on the purchase commitment or
> > outright refused to do so ) . Nevertheless , I need your agreement on
>this
> > so I may contact eBay to confirm you the winning position, otherwise,
>I'll
> > relist the item . I am sorry for the inconvenience, but I need an answer
> > fast.
> > Your last auctioned bid prior to being outbid is taken into
> > consideration.The price will be your last bid > > HOPE TO HEAR FROM YOU SOON !

Hope this helps you my fellow bass players!

Tim

If you have a paypal account I would avise you to close it and change any cards or accounts that you have registered with them.

Why? What happened to you?

Jugghaid, your info really hits a home run...Thanks for the Love. Radical Red.

GREAT thread with excellent advice and links.

Here's one I've used to research buyers.
Name and/or phone number:
http://www.zabasearch.com/

Here's a "form email" that some potential buyer get sent if I'm nervous. I have sold to "zeroes" on eBay but usually not high $$ stuff.

Greetings from south Texas!

Please contact me concerning your bids on this item. The auction requested that zero or low feedback members contact us BEFORE bidding. The information requested is:
Full name
Phone number
Physical Address with City and State and zip code
Method of payment

If you plan to use PayPal, please submit your PayPal ID for verification purposes.

It is NOT our goal to disqualify new bidders. It is our goal to have as smooth a transaction as possible with BOTH parties satisfied. In this case, I sell a AUCTION ITEM NAME and the buyer gets a reasonable deal.

Thanks for your prompt reply,
my eBay handle

I just want to share a story of how you cannot only get scammed as a buyer but also as a seller. I recently sold an electric drum set a couple weeks ago and shipped the item out to the buyer. The buyer got it a couple days ago and claimed that some parts were missing. I told him to check the box again because I am certain I sent him all the parts. To make a long story short he wants me to either pay for the replacement parts or give him a full refund. There's insurance with UPS on the item but he refuses to go through UPS. What can I do? The replacement parts are not that much to replace and I wouldn't mind paying for it but it's the whole principal of the situation. If I pay for the replacement parts it be like me admitting that I didn't send him all the parts. What I am thinking is that he's just saying that parts were missing just so he could get a refund and then ship the item back to me while keeping the parts he needs. Any ideas on how I can resolve this issue?

I just want to share a story of how you cannot only get scammed as a buyer but also as a seller. I recently sold an electric drum set a couple weeks ago and shipped the item out to the buyer. The buyer got it a couple days ago and claimed that some parts were missing. I told him to check the box again because I am certain I sent him all the parts. To make a long story short he wants me to either pay for the replacement parts or give him a full refund. There's insurance with UPS on the item but he refuses to go through UPS. What can I do? The replacement parts are not that much to replace and I wouldn't mind paying for it but it's the whole principal of the situation. If I pay for the replacement parts it be like me admitting that I didn't send him all the parts. What I am thinking is that he's just saying that parts were missing just so he could get a refund and then ship the item back to me while keeping the parts he needs. Any ideas on how I can resolve this issue?

If he does not file a compliant with the shipping company then I say he has no case. Sounds like to me, he wants you give him a refund. If the parts are missing then tell him to file a claim. If he tries to give you neg. feedback all you have to say is that all parts where included and buyer refused to file claim with shipping company... end of story. Sounds fishy but let it roll and don't let him push you around!

Peace,

I just want to share a story of how you cannot only get scammed as a buyer but also as a seller. I recently sold an electric drum set a couple weeks ago and shipped the item out to the buyer. The buyer got it a couple days ago and claimed that some parts were missing. I told him to check the box again because I am certain I sent him all the parts. To make a long story short he wants me to either pay for the replacement parts or give him a full refund. There's insurance with UPS on the item but he refuses to go through UPS. What can I do? The replacement parts are not that much to replace and I wouldn't mind paying for it but it's the whole principal of the situation. If I pay for the replacement parts it be like me admitting that I didn't send him all the parts. What I am thinking is that he's just saying that parts were missing just so he could get a refund and then ship the item back to me while keeping the parts he needs. Any ideas on how I can resolve this issue?


How about offering to provide replacements for the missing parts. (Kinda like giving the guy who "will work for food" food instead of money). That way if he is being legit he should be happy. Just an idea.

Tim

He wants me to refund $30 to replace the part and I would do it but if I give him what he wants, it would seem like I am admitting that I made a mistake with the shipment. I am positive I sent him everything. This guy is out to rip someone off and I happen to be his victim. It just pisses me off cause I gave him such a good deal. Some people, enough is just never enough...:rollno:

I would request this become a sticky... it is a really good post
This post is on-par with the thread about "all about ohms" and "speaker impedence" EXCELLENT info.. thank you! :)

This sure is a great and very useful thread!!!

I have just recieved an offer on a 1962 Burns Bass that I have advertised in the Vintage Guitar magazine for £2000.
A guy in the US is owed £7400 by a client in the UK, once they have my name and address the UK guy sends the cheque to the US guy who then sends it to me and so on and so on.

I have just recieved an offer on a 1962 Burns Bass that I have advertised in the Vintage Guitar magazine for £2000.
A guy in the US is owed £7400 by a client in the UK, once they have my name and address the UK guy sends the cheque to the US guy who then sends it to me and so on and so on.

sounds like a scam to me. i wouldn't do it.

He wants me to refund $30 to replace the part and I would do it but if I give him what he wants, it would seem like I am admitting that I made a mistake with the shipment. I am positive I sent him everything. This guy is out to rip someone off and I happen to be his victim. It just pisses me off cause I gave him such a good deal. Some people, enough is just never enough...:rollno:

Dude, don't fall for it or give in. If you know you included the parts then you did. I'm sure you've double checked around the house; if you didn't see them, then you sent them. Why is he refusing to go through UPS...was the box in perfect shape...if not, then that's where his fight starts and ends...with UPS, not you. Tell him if he doesn't want to hit UPS then he can return everything and you'll refund his money, less the cost of the replacement parts you'll need to buy. I'll doubt you'll hear from him again.

$.02

I am thinking of upgrading my membership again and selling some stuff here on TB. I never had any problems requiring PayPal, but now I am wondering if this is the best option, because it seems like there's a difference between PayPal accepting it and the payment actually clearing.

Is PayPal the best way to go here?

For those who might be interested, PayPal isn't bulletproof either. Sellers are vulnerable if they're not paying attention. There are a couple scams that could cost you your bass or other gear. Someone negotiates a deal with you and offers to pay by PayPal. Most people here accept that. The buyer gives you shipping information and pays via Paypal. You ship the gear and it's a done deal.

Not so fast.

One of two scenarios can happen here:

1) The buyer has given you a ship to address that is not the 'CONFIRMED' address PayPal sent you on the receipt of payment notice. The buyer gave you his brother-in-law's address, his work address, or any other address except the 'CONFIRMED' address. After a while, he tells PayPal that he never received the gear. PayPal smacks you on the ass and asks you why you didn't ship the item to the 'CONFIRMED' address like you were supposed to? Buyer keeps your gear and gets his money back. :-(

2) For US sellers - a foriegn buyer will buy your gear and pay with PayPal. He'll request that you ship with US Postal service because they only charge about 1/3 of what UPS charges. You agree. He pays for the gear & you ship it. In a while he complains to PayPal that he never received the gear. PayPal tells you to cough up the online traceable tracking number. Hou say 'HUH?' because you can't. US Postal svc only offers this for domestic shipments. PayPal spanks your ass again and tells you to read the rules more carefully. Again, the foreign buyer gets your gear and his money back.

This is all terrible, but it is necessary to keep buyers semi-protected from abuse by unethical sellers. Sellers using PayPal as a transactional portal should be up to speed on the ways they can be screwed out of their gear.

Hope this helps someone save their cherished bass from being 'stolen' from them.

Peace...

1) The buyer has given you a ship to address that is not the 'CONFIRMED' address PayPal sent you on the receipt of payment notice. The buyer gave you his brother-in-law's address, his work address, or any other address except the 'CONFIRMED' address. After a while, he tells PayPal that he never received the gear. PayPal smacks you on the ass and asks you why you didn't ship the item to the 'CONFIRMED' address like you were supposed to? Buyer keeps your gear and gets his money back. :-(



If we ship the item insured for full purchase price would we be covered?

If we ship the item insured for full purchase price would we be covered?

No - the shipper has proof of delivery. The complication with the delivery falls outside of their responsibility. They did their job correctly. Additionally - for foreign shipments - insurance tracking through the US Postal Svc is not acceptable because it cannot be done through the internet ( at this time anyways ). More on that - if your foreign shipment gets lost or damaged but you declared it to be worth $10 on the customs form so the recipient could avoid customs / duty taxes, that creates a complicated situation that will not likely end up in your favor.

No - the shipper has proof of delivery. The complication with the delivery falls outside of their responsibility. They did their job correctly.

Bummer. I see the importance of shipping to Confrmed paypal adresses.

Thanks for the heads up.

2) For US sellers - a foriegn buyer will buy your gear and pay with PayPal. He'll request that you ship with US Postal service because they only charge about 1/3 of what UPS charges. You agree. He pays for the gear & you ship it. In a while he complains to PayPal that he never received the gear. PayPal tells you to cough up the online traceable tracking number. Hou say 'HUH?' because you can't. US Postal svc only offers this for domestic shipments. PayPal spanks your ass again and tells you to read the rules more carefully. Again, the foreign buyer gets your gear and his money back.


So, being from Russia, I may be refused the option to pay via PayPal and ship using USPS? That sucks royally... Because, first of all, UPS and Fedex are outrageously expensive to ship here by, payment by Western Union leaves me as a buyer completely unprotected (and charges a few dozen bucks for the service), and add to that the 30% flat rate customs duty on items more than 10000 RUR (circa $380) worth... :-(

This hopefully will help my fellow TBers with trades (and even purchases). Anyway, with users with 0-2 feedbacks, I generally ask them to ship to me first and then I ship to them after I have theirs. I can get away with this because of my number of feedbacks and they typically have a level of confidence from this.

Another option that I've done is if the user has a little more feedback (2-4) and/or they truly instill my confidence, I ask them to ship first and then when they provide a valid tracking number that can be viewed (typically it takes several hours for the tracking number to show up in the system) I ship my item. This usually means that my item is a day or so behind theirs and worst case if the item I get from them is not what they say it is, I can call the shipper and ask them to turn my item around back to me.

The good news is that I've had very few bad experiences here. Do yourself a favor and get as much information about the person as you can. Ask for their home number, their work number, where they work, are they paypal confirmed, etc, etc. Even ask whah the name of their band is and if they have a webite or myspace, etc. In a couple of situations where the person had not shipped my stuff for weeks after, I've used this information to my advantage and called their work, contacted the other band members, even a girlfriend linked on the myspace, etc. If several others around them come down on them to do what they are supposed to do, they typically do the right thing in the end.

Hope this helps!
Fred

For those who might be interested, PayPal isn't bulletproof either. Sellers are vulnerable if they're not paying attention. There are a couple scams that could cost you your bass or other gear. Someone negotiates a deal with you and offers to pay by PayPal. Most people here accept that. The buyer gives you shipping information and pays via Paypal. You ship the gear and it's a done deal.


Here's another way you get screwed by PayPal and the Seller.

The seller ships you the wrong thing...

You contact PayPal, and they contact the seller.
They only ask for a tracking number to see if it was shipped...to whom and from where, etc.
They give PayPal the tracking number (which might just be for a box of rocks)...PayPal is happy...closes the case.

AND YOU GET SCREWED...since they could prove that they sent something to you.

IF you can...pay the extra $$$ for the PayPal Buyers Insurance!

So, being from Russia, I may be refused the option to pay via PayPal and ship using USPS? That sucks royally... Because, first of all, UPS and Fedex are outrageously expensive to ship here by, payment by Western Union leaves me as a buyer completely unprotected (and charges a few dozen bucks for the service), and add to that the 30% flat rate customs duty on items more than 10000 RUR (circa $380) worth... :-(

Yep - That's the way that it is. And truthfully, everybody didn't just wake up one day and decide to limit their sales from the US to other countries. This has come about due to the number of times US sellers have been screwed over in the process of shipping to other countries. Look through eBay's US site and see how many people refuse to ship overseas. A HUGE percentage will not or will only ship under predefined circumstances. I personally fall into the latter category, but a buyer will need to have pretty good credentials before I'll ship anything worth more than $25. The risk of the deal going sour is too great. I'm sorry that's how it is. I understand your frustration.

I bought an item from a TBer recently, via Paypal............I paypal the cash, and wait for the item to arrive............After 3 weeks.............no item............Countless emails and PM, none of which were replied to.........So we go the Paypal dispute route...........I get an email today telling me that they have ruled in my favor.............They refund me $0.48 !!!!!! I am assuming this is all he has in his Paypal account, and they will not allow him to use their service........Was not alot of money, but it is the principle....If you would like to know who the TBer is, feel free to PM me.....Would not want this to happen to someone else here.

Antman3820,
That's a terrible situation and Paypal's refund is simply absurd !
Are you sure Paypal's refund policies are based on refunding only what the guilty party has available at his Paypal's account? That is ridiculous !
Haven't they got a way to charge the seller for the total amount you payed or even cover the $ themselves???
I mean, after all that should be a part of why they charge a high commission for their services, don't they?... terrifying:scowl:
Though I have never been ripped off like that, I am in the process of selling a lot of gear and am seriously considering not accepting Paypal.
I think you should contact the seller with an ultimatum to refund your money or ship the item. If he doesn't respond I would post and spread the word and boycott this guy at every music Forum on the Planet (starting with TB) to let everybody know about him.
Do you know his real name?
PM me.

The persons PayPal account should be linked to their checking account and/or credit card. PayPal can (and will) take money from those if your PayPal account does not have the money to cover it. I am speaking from experience here. I will share my little story on that. I decided to help out a friend of mine who did not have any ebay or PayPal account and sold an 80's vintage PRS on ebay for them. It sold for $2000 and they paid via paypal. So, the guitar gets shipped to the guy and there was a problem with one of the pickups. The guy immediately files a dispute with PayPal. Well, I had already moved the $2K out of my paypal and into my checking account and even written a check to my friend for the guitar. Anyway, when the guy put in the dispute PayPal immediately took the money out of my checking account. So, here I was left with $2K out of my checking account. Fortunately, I had it or I would have been sunk. We eventually worked it out. Needless to say, I will also never sell anything for anyone ever again. I also make sure that everything is good on both sides before I move the money into my checking account.

All of that said, PayPal can and will take the money out of your "personal" funds if it is not in your paypal account. Now, if the guys checking account was empty, it may be a different story.

If you would like to know who the TBer is, feel free to PM me.....Would not want this to happen to someone else here.

Well... why don't you also leave him negative feedback, so that others who won't pm you know as well? I thought about pming you, then I thought "why bug him when I can see the feedback he's left for others, he'll be the one with the negative feedback" but found only positive.

So check this out. I have a guy that just bought a bass I was selling off ebay. He emailed me today and said that he will be coming through my area tomorrow and can he just pick the bass up (because he wont be home when its delivered). I thought of making up some contracts for both of us to sign, but should I still say no and ship it? He is sending the money through paypal. Can I do this and keep accountability of the property?

So check this out. I have a guy that just bought a bass I was selling off ebay. He emailed me today and said that he will be coming through my area tomorrow and can he just pick the bass up (because he wont be home when its delivered). I thought of making up some contracts for both of us to sign, but should I still say no and ship it? He is sending the money through paypal. Can I do this and keep accountability of the property?

Sure, tell him to cancel the paypal payment and pay in cash! That way you'll both be sure you're getting what you want.

So check this out. I have a guy that just bought a bass I was selling off ebay. He emailed me today and said that he will be coming through my area tomorrow and can he just pick the bass up (because he wont be home when its delivered). I thought of making up some contracts for both of us to sign, but should I still say no and ship it? He is sending the money through paypal. Can I do this and keep accountability of the property?

I know this reply is too late for your situation. However - for others interested or in this situation, the answer is as follows....

If you meet wit hthe buyer and hand over the bass, you have not shipped to the 'Confirmed' address provided by PayPal. Also - you have not used a shipping company that has provided an online traceabble tracking number for this item. Two big No-No's. The buyer will have the perfect opportunity to screw you over for the money. As the other poster stated, you would have to reverse the PayPal / eBay payment and do one of the following:

- Cash On Delivery. Best Option.

- PayPal transfer for non-auction goods or better yet payment for service (handling of said bass guitar for full purchase amount). This way, the buyer cannot come back and claim he never received the item due to a lack of proof of delivery.

I hope your situation worked out OK for you.

Okay, here's my dilemma...

On 09/24/07, I Paypal'd funds to a TB member for a speaker cab. The name jived with the address on-line. Since that time, I've received no product, no return e-mails, no return PMs. I quickly escalated this to a full-blown Paypal claim dispute. They also received no response from the seller and the claim was decided in my favor. My refund? $0.26! For the record, the TBer had a favorable feedback rating of 2...but its not favorable anymore!

How would you proceed given the situation?

BTW, this deal-gone-bad is centered in Toms River, NJ. PM me and I'll give you the full scoop (names, dates, etc.).

Riis

jeez hope i dont get ripped off lol

jeez hope i dont get ripped off lol

Roger that. I hope you never get ripped off either. Here's the follow-up on my Toms River misadventure:

The seller finally contacted me after realizing his family had not shipped the product. The guys's in school and uses a myriad of e-mail addresses / accounts. Bad idea! He failed to regularly check his TalkBass and PayPal messages which he listed as first contact choices. In the interim, I flamed him on TB and got his PayPal account frozen. As soon as he realized what had happended, the seller immediately shipped the product which was received by me within 3 days. Lesson learned for the both of us!

Riis

This thread has been very enlightening.

Someone had mentioned to ask for International Money Orders when sell something overseas. Please be aware that they can be FORGED. You will take them to the bank and they will tell you they are real, and even give it to you in writing, but when they bounce 2 weeks later the bank WILL NOT support you! This happened to a friend of mine, and he was holding the bag for $3000 of bogus Money Orders.

The scammers can even pay for Money Orders with another form of bogus paper, so it takes even longer.

Just gotta be careful. Even if someone wants an item shipped the cheapest way, if the item is expensive, I will pay the extra for the shipping with a tracking# and insurance - it is a cost of doing business.

Thanks man. thats some great advice!!!

What's the best way to receive payment if you don't want to use PayPal? I am getting ready to sell a high-dollar bass here on TB, and I don't want to use PayPal due to the high fee I'd have to incur for receiving the funds. I know money orders and all types of checks can be fakes, so what's the best route?




This thread has been very enlightening.

Someone had mentioned to ask for International Money Orders when sell something overseas. Please be aware that they can be FORGED. You will take them to the bank and they will tell you they are real, and even give it to you in writing, but when they bounce 2 weeks later the bank WILL NOT support you! This happened to a friend of mine, and he was holding the bag for $3000 of bogus Money Orders.

The scammers can even pay for Money Orders with another form of bogus paper, so it takes even longer.

Just gotta be careful. Even if someone wants an item shipped the cheapest way, if the item is expensive, I will pay the extra for the shipping with a tracking# and insurance - it is a cost of doing business.

What's the best way to receive payment if you don't want to use PayPal? I am getting ready to sell a high-dollar bass here on TB, and I don't want to use PayPal due to the high fee I'd have to incur for receiving the funds. I know money orders and all types of checks can be fakes, so what's the best route?

Maybe I'm too trusting but...

If the buyer is active on the forums and has positive feedback (like me and numerous others!), I wouldn't hesitate to accept a personal check, cashier's check, MO, whatever to avoid PayPal fees. I am wary, though, of TBers who join solely for the purpose of utilizing and/or exploiting the fee-free Classified forums. You can make this determination by doing a TBer profile search. Just my $.02!

Riis

What's the best way to receive payment if you don't want to use PayPal? I am getting ready to sell a high-dollar bass here on TB, and I don't want to use PayPal due to the high fee I'd have to incur for receiving the funds. I know money orders and all types of checks can be fakes, so what's the best route?

US Postal Money Order. That way if it's counterfeit, you can drag the US Postal Service into the fight. They really frown when people counterfeit their money orders.

When using paypal I have it withdrawn off my Amex card rather that my bank account. I've never had a problem but if it comes off a card you can dispute it with your CC company as well as paypal. Your CC company with tend to help you out more because you use them all the time where you only use paypal ever so often.

Bought a bass from a seller here on talkbass, for the first time not a very good experience, read my feedback here:

http://www.talkbass.com/forum/itrader.php?u=90588

Bought a bass from a seller here on talkbass, for the first time not a very good experience, read my feedback here:

http://www.talkbass.com/forum/itrader.php?u=90588

Yes, I'd be wary of any seller with a feedback rating of -1. Doesn't appear that he left you any feedback. Sorry to hear about your deal-gone-bad.

Riis

Yes, I'd be wary of any seller with a feedback rating of -1. Doesn't appear that he left you any feedback. Sorry to hear about your deal-gone-bad.

Riis

The -1 was the feedback I left. He had 0... Here is my feedback:

Deal thread was deleted, so I cannot link to it.

From private messages:
me: Ok, just to confirm, everything is mint mint mint, right> No scratches, dings, etc... ?

Blackbird46:yeah man i babied this thing. everything is mint.

After I paid for the bass he called me to say there was a ding with paint removal near the input jack, that he was sorry for not telling me before and that he would return me 100$. I asked if he could send me a picture, he was unable so I took the chance anyway. Zach in fact did refund me 100$.

When the bass arrived, it was awfully packed. No popcorn, bubble wrap, nothing, just the case wrapped in some cardboard. Worst than this, the bass was inside the case with no extra padding, and the "vintage" case leaves a lot of room for the bass to move around inside.

When I oppened the case, not only the bass have the ding he told me about, but has several scratches all around, in the back of the body and in the front. The neck is fine, but the body is not what I can consider "mint condition" as described by the seller.

The seller also stated in a PM:
Blackbird46:It ships in the hardshell case with all the case candy.

Inside the case I didn't find the certificate Fender sends with the custom shop instruments. To make things worst, sent a message to the seller about it and didn't get a response. Posted on the classified thread that he had a new PM and the original thread got deleted.

I sent the following PM on 01-18-2008, 03:44 PM:
"received the bass today, as it was terribly packed, the case has some minor damage to it. Also, where is the Fender certificate of authenticity that always come with the custom shop basses? It is not inside the case."

Also wrote in the deal thread (that got deleted) that he had a new PM. I never got a response, even though he has been active on talkbass (he post here after I sent the PM): http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?t=398115

Sounds like misrepresentation to me. In my book, mint means showroom-new...fingerprints notwithstanding. Hope the bass is at least performing to your expectations.

Riis

Hey, I've got my bass up for sale here for $750. A guy from Paris, France said he's give me $800 for it. His feedback is 0, he's not posted anything here on TB and he's PM'd me before about buying it but I told him I was just interested in trades.

Should I be worried? Is this ligit?

Hey, I've got my bass up for sale here for $750. A guy from Paris, France said he's give me $800 for it. His feedback is 0, he's not posted anything here on TB and he's PM'd me before about buying it but I told him I was just interested in trades.

Should I be worried? Is this ligit?


I would think if you make sure the payment is through Paypal and you should be fine. There's no way to counterfeit a paypal payment(that I know of).

That said, go with your gut. If you don't trust it, wait it out. Someone else will eventually buy it.

I've been reading a lot of the stuff on the scams here. There are people (including me, to a point) devoted to giving scammers a hard time.

Check: http://www.419eater.com/ and the forums, as knowing the sort of stuff is an indispensable asset in online purchases.

Oh yeah, if they ask for a western union or money gram transfer, get out.

^^^ man some of that stuff is soooooo funny! i haven't laughed that hard in a very long time. on a more serious note though, how do you guys go about dealing with non paying winners on ebay. should i just report him or what? i mean i am definitely not a jerk but i want to unleash the punishment to the fullest extent if possible so no one else has to go through the same crap. any advice is greatly appreciated.

Well, I would report non-paying customers. This is a waste of your time and effort, and whenever someone bids on ebay a notice pops up to remind the bidder that they are entering into a contract to pay the seller if they are the highest bidder. By reporting these jerks, they can stop wasting anyone else's time.

Report Report Report....Reputation is everything on TB and ebay. That way other Honest Buyers/Sellers won't wast time/money. This should effect future trust and it's you duty to report it!!!!

Just In my opinion of 7 years plus on ebay

^^^ man some of that stuff is soooooo funny! i haven't laughed that hard in a very long time. on a more serious note though, how do you guys go about dealing with non paying winners on ebay. should i just report him or what? i mean i am definitely not a jerk but i want to unleash the punishment to the fullest extent if possible so no one else has to go through the same crap. any advice is greatly appreciated.

Ordered a bass from a well known US manufacturer trough an equally well known dealer's web site. Down payment $1500. approx 50%. Have waited 10 months and no firm date yet. Feel like I dont want this hazzle and would like to get out of this situation, but the distributor seems reluctant to return the down payment. Manufacturer does not even respond to e mails. How do I deal with this? I paid the deposit with my Mastercard, I guess it's not much they can do either.

Ordered a bass from a well known US manufacturer trough an equally well known dealer's web site. Down payment $1500. approx 50%. Have waited 10 months and noe firm date yet .Feel like I dont want this hazzle and would like to get out of this situation, but the distributor seems reluctant to return the down payment. Manufacturer does not even respond to e mails. How do I deal with this?

What exactly is the distributor's response? Is this a custom build or something purportedly to be in stock?

Riis

What exactly is the distributor's response? Is this a custom build or something purportedly to be in stock?

Riis

This is not a custom buildt, but they did not have the spesific model in stock. I was warned that there might be the possibility of a couple of months delay. I accepted this. But clearly stated that the purpose of this purcase was to use the bass this summer in june, otherwise I would look for something else. The delivery did not happen and the response is just extended dates. I did one thing when the delivery did not happen I asked for a painted hedstock. I did this after their feedback was "there will be no additonal delay due to a painted headstock at this point " I understood this as the bass was not yet in production
The last deliverydate was end september but it did not show up. When I send an e mail I get the impression that I am becoming somewat of a pain in the ....

Thanks for the clarification. I get better responses when phoning; e-mails are too easily ignored or discarded. I see where the bass was not yet in production at the time the order was placed so the delay may be at the builders' end. Could you be a little more specific about the distributor and builder? If you're now working outside your designated time frame, will the distributor allow you to use the deposit for another purchase?

Once again, map out your questions and make a phone call. Things may not be as bad as they seem. BTW, don't bother the builder; this is the distributor's responsibility.

Riis

Thanks for the clarification. I get better responses when phoning; e-mails are too easily ignored or discarded. I see where the bass was not yet in production at the time the order was placed so the delay may be at the builders' end. Could you be a little more specific about the distributor and builder? If you're now working outside your designated time frame, will the distributor allow you to use the deposit for another purchase?

Once again, map out your questions and make a phone call. Things may not be as bad as they seem. BTW, don't bother the builder; this is the distributor's responsibility.

Riis


Thanks for your comment. At the moment I would like to be careful with names. TB is a powerful communication channel and I have no intention of getting back at anyone, I'll take your advice and keep things a little quiet. I am going on a vacation for two weks and I will let this rest and see how things are when I get back home, Again Thanks for your oppinion

I would like to share a recent experience with high-end bass (Fodera) trade deal. It didn't go well but as of yesterday everything has been resolved. I posted all the details about this deal on my blog, you can check it out here:

http://blog.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendID=181490183&blogID=450339590

Thanks for reading and always be careful to avoid getting ripped-off or scammed on the internet. Keep your guard up!

I paid the deposit with my Mastercard, I guess it's not much they can do either.
Actually, I think you should be able to dispute the charge at MasterCard. If you order something and it isn't delivered, they will contact the seller to push them to deliver or refund your money. Also, depending on the details of your card, you may have some additional insurance protection, but you'll have to ask MC what coverage you have.

Hi guys - I was wondering if anyone had any experience or opinions to offer on the differences between using PayPal the 'normal' way (backed by account funds or a credit card) and the PayPal e-check (where funds have to be in the bank account). Besides the fees for each option, is accepting only an e-check a safer bet (less chance of scam) - is it a 'done deal', or can the money still turn up as 'bad' a few weeks later and be reversed? I'm considering selling some expensive instruments, and want to use the safest way to do business - can't afford to lose out $$$ because of BS scams or problems.

Thanks
~ric

thanks for the VERY usefull info!

Damn! I thought someone FINALLY answered my question.....

...I guess people rarely come here since it's a sticky, no?

I paid TB'er Ray Salamon for this ESP bass:

http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?t=506141

I am still waiting for the bass and the seller just ignores my messages.
I just filed a claim with PayPal, hope this would help to get my money back.

I am still waiting for the bass and the seller just ignores my messages.
I just filed a claim with PayPal, hope this would help to get my money back.

Have you tried calling?

Had a similar situation a year or so ago. I quickly escalated it to a claim via PayPal. I ended up getting back $.26 but, in the process, I froze / screwed-up his Paypal account and posted negative feedback on the TB forum. That caught the seller's attention quickly as he was unable to deal here or on E-bay. Got lots of apologies and the product within 3 days.

IIRC, PayPal sends the "defendant" 3 e-mails requesting proof of product delivery. Failure to respond always defaults in favor of the plaintiff.

Good luck and I hope the situation turns out to be just a misunderstanding.

Riis

I would like to share a recent experience ...

http://blog.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendID=181490183&blogID=450339590A comment about USPS tracking: their "tracking" system is abysmal! They usually post something the day when the item is picked up, then nothing more shows up until AFTER the item is delivered. That's not very useful information.

Here's a warning about using FedEx for international shipping (e.g., Canada to USA):

*** Make sure the SENDER knows how to fill out the shipping papers properly!!! ***

I know, you won't be there when the papers are filled out, but talk it over before you let them ship, or you may have to pay import duties you don't legally owe.

Fodera guitars are made in the USA, and Canada is a member of NAFTA, so you'd think there wouldn't be any import duties, because there aren't. But if the sender puts "CA" for "Country Mfg", thinking she's sending it from Canada, and if the sender checks some box somewhere that says YOU are responsible for any additional fees (even though your excrow.com contract says the sender is responsible for all such fees), then when someone from FedEx calls your wife and says they can't release the package you've been waiting for unless she gives them your social security number (without even mentioning customs to give you a clue what the holdup is), you are eventually either going to have to pay several hundred dollars for import duties, or you are going to have to miss several days of work to prepare and document your dispute with FedEx Trade Networks(FTN), and to talk with FedEx employees, who rarely know anything about customs, and to talk with US Customs employees, some of whom do actually know something about customs.

As a "service to the customer" FTN pays your improperly-assessed import duties when the guitar enters the US, but you won't discover this problem until they call you to tell you they are sending you a bill for the duties you should not have been charged and which they should not have paid. At that point, your only 2 choices are (1) pay the tax you don't owe, or (2) file a dispute.

Do NOT let them file the dispute for you, because they will undoubtedly miss the point about no import duties on US made goods and, instead, dispute the charge based on NAFTA, and then later FTN will reject your dispute claim because, no doubt, you are not an import/export business and you did not have the appropriate government NAFTA forms filed on the day the guitar was shipped.

Several of the people I talked to at FedEx or FTN seemed to not even know about NAFTA or about the fact that US made goods are not subject to import duties or taxes, and some of those who had heard that US goods returning to the US aren't taxed said I had to get forms signed by an officer of the company that manufactured the guitar to prove it was American made. Fodera is a small enough company that this is at least possible, but imagine how difficult this would be for a big company like Fender! Do you think you could get the president or one of the board members of a company like Fender to fill out and sign a form so you could prove your guitar was made in the US? Not likely!

10 or 15 phone calls and 5 or 10 emails later, you MIGHT finally convince them that you shouldn't have to pay. I got lucky. Eventually, I reached someone at FTN who sort of understood the situation and she contacted someone at US Customs and Border Security who was helpful. After speaking directly to him, I found out that all I needed to do was create a (14 page!) document describing the situation, with screen shots of the online transactions, copies of a few shipping documents, and a picture of the guitar to show what I received.

I am now waiting to hear if this worked. I am keeping my fingers crossed. It has taken almost 2 months to get this close to the end of this needless pain in the you-know-what.

Has this ever happened to anyone with UPS or DHL, etc.? Maybe I'll use one of those next time.

I used to use UPS from Canada for my business quite a bit, and they always managed to hit us with "expediting fees". These are the IMO bogus fees that they charge in lieu of customs fees post-NAFTA. Definitely ask about this up-front.

Saw a news clip this AM on Headline News that eCommerce vendors are getting hit hard with a new scam... receiving a package and then filing a claim that it was not received. Sellers can head this off by shipping that requires signature of receipt. Maybe worth adding a sticky?

Absolutely, ask for signature. Its worth a few dollars more. Then there is a written record of the buyer's signature. And check, when purchasing this service, whether it is requiring the signature of the buyer or just someone who lives there. Ask for the signature of the buyer.

After reading this thread, I am going to take PayPal off as an option for my DB posted here on TB. I would get screwed over if it was a PayPal transaction and did not technically ship it to the confirmed address since I am trying to do a local, in person, transaction. It is going to be cash only, or I am going to consign it to a local bass shop. This is a 2K + item.

This is a good thread for my purposes: I'm looking at a Westone Pantera 5 string bass online at

http://chicago.backpage.com/online/classifieds/Results?rd=no&keyword=bass&section=4378.

I play a little acoustic but want to get into bass, think this is a good beginner's instrument, but not sure about the pricing. Can anyone take a look here and let me know if they think this guy/gal is legit? Is $320 about right?

Thanks

This is a good thread for my purposes: I'm looking at a Westone Pantera 5 string bass online at

http://chicago.backpage.com/online/classifieds/Results?rd=no&keyword=bass&section=4378.

I play a little acoustic but want to get into bass, think this is a good beginner's instrument, but not sure about the pricing. Can anyone take a look here and let me know if they think this guy/gal is legit? Is $320 about right?

Thanks


I'm not gonna say absolutely yes or no but I think you can do better for 320 bucks for a second-hand Westone. I've had a Westone and it was decent but you can get a new Squier 5 string Jazz for 320 which I think is probably a better option, so if you looked around for a used one you could save some cash.

I just had a guy who said he wanted to go though PayPal. I thought great. He told me he sent the money though, I got a email confriming it from what looked like paypal. I checked my paypal account and no money. It was all a scam. Make sure you check with paypal first. I'm still getting emails from the fake paypal. I just forward them to spoof@paypal.com. Be careful.

PAYPAL FEES HURT RIP OFF THE SELLER!!!

I'm really tired of PayPal fees and think the rule here is unfair. Buyers negotiate price per "going price" and then the seller has to suck it up and pay huge fees.

Yes everyone is protected by PayPal as a clearing house. I believe it would be fair to split the fees 50/50 Buyer/Seller being that both are protected...

Simple solutions. Everybody is protected and deal is done.

PAYPAL FEES HURT RIP OFF THE SELLER!!!

I'm really tired of PayPal fees and think the rule here is unfair. Buyers negotiate price per "going price" and then the seller has to suck it up and pay huge fees.

Yes everyone is protected by PayPal as a clearing house. I believe it would be fair to split the fees 50/50 Buyer/Seller being that both are protected...

Simple solutions. Everybody is protected and deal is done.

If you sign up for paypal, then you are bound by the rules and policies that you agreed to. If the 3% fee to use their instant online payment service is too much for you (not to mention any protection offered by that service), then you should not take paypal.

Personally, i have 0 issues with paypal. :) Also, you may want to bring that up to Paypal, because here you probably won't even get a mod response to complaints/messages about paypal.

3% on a $1000 bass is only $30. If it's that big a deal, just increase your asking price by 3%.

My 2 cents,
-GB

very good.

This is a good thread.. I am trying to sell my Tacoma CB-10 acoustic/electric on CL (http://washingtondc.craigslist.org/nva/msg/1318650242.html) in the D.C. area.. and I have gotten two seemingly promising bites but they both want me to ship overseas .... which raises alarms in my head..

I was approached by a guy in NJ (I am in MA) who wants to buy my $2,800 bass - I did not want to ship - so I let him know he could come up here and do a cash transaction -

He has a a guy who owns a company (affiliated with his work) who he will send the cash to - they will pay me cash - as I requested and take my bass and ship it to him - it is not a shipping company.

The company he is sending it to is legit (after review) - anyone had any experience with this type of arrangement?

If anyone has any info on this type of arrangement - please let me know - I would appreciate it - thanks.

I think I'd be very suspicious of that deal, but cash IS cash. I'd just find out specific names, phone numbers, etc surrounding the deal before going through with it.


.

just fine - but like you say it does seem a bit odd and I will get all of the contact info prior.... BTW I like the regenerate basses also - saw the Black Tele a little while back w/ the darkstar and thought it was the nicest looking tele I had ever seen - again thanks for the input

I was approached by a guy in NJ (I am in MA) who wants to buy my $2,800 bass - I did not want to ship - so I let him know he could come up here and do a cash transaction -

He has a a guy who owns a company (affiliated with his work) who he will send the cash to - they will pay me cash - as I requested and take my bass and ship it to him - it is not a shipping company.

The company he is sending it to is legit (after review) - anyone had any experience with this type of arrangement?

If anyone has any info on this type of arrangement - please let me know - I would appreciate it - thanks.

I've done similar deals with a Tber where I shipped to an employer / parent company in Compton, CA....twice! If you've done all your research and everything checks out to the final detail, go for it! I've were to latch onto your no-shipping deal, I would have no choice but to use "networking" contacts to facilitate payment, pick-up, and delivery.

Riis

one who placed the restriction to be on a local cash basis.... Good input...... Thank you.

How long do you wait before filing a complaint and\or refund from Paypal, Ebay, Credit Card company etc if you haven't received the items you purchased online?

It's been a week since I paid for my items and haven't heard from the seller at all, no PM, no email, nothing. Should I wait another week or file a dispute now?

How long do you wait before filing a complaint and\or refund from Paypal, Ebay, Credit Card company etc if you haven't received the items you purchased online?

It's been a week since I paid for my items and haven't heard from the seller at all, no PM, no email, nothing. Should I wait another week or file a dispute now?

In most cases you have at least 30 days to file a complaint. You might want to wait a few more days to see if your item shows up. If it's PayPal through Ebay, you should have no problem making a claim if needed. Credit card protection is quite good too.

-GB

PAYPAL FEES HURT RIP OFF THE SELLER!!!

I'm really tired of PayPal fees and think the rule here is unfair. Buyers negotiate price per "going price" and then the seller has to suck it up and pay huge fees.

Yes everyone is protected by PayPal as a clearing house. I believe it would be fair to split the fees 50/50 Buyer/Seller being that both are protected...

Simple solutions. Everybody is protected and deal is done.

I think someone said when you sale something, only accept a echeck through paypal. It takes a little longer to clear but only charges you a flat $5.00 fee no matter how high the cost of the item you are selling.

Steve

I've been trying all over the country to purchase a bass, and most of the ones I make an offer on were advertised on Craigslist. After thinking about it really hard, the best thing I could come up with is C.O.D., which is available via USPS, FedEx and UPS.

This to me seems like the best deal because the shipper is the disinterested 3rd party - they won't release the bass till I pay (so seller is assured of getting paid) and I don't pay until the bass is right there in front of me (so I get my bass). Shipper can specify that payment is made with secured instrument (cash, cashier's check).

The only wrinkle is the box of rocks scenario, and that I'm guessing is possible to avoid by insisting on a contents inspection (prevailing upon the carrier to "be cool" and having packing tape to prove you're cool too).

I never thought PayPal was much of an option but I'll revisit their policy pages. In the olden days they just passed the money, gave no warranty whatsoever, so it was just like mailing cash.

Even so, I still like the C.O.D. idea better. I'm curious why no one's mentioned it yet? Seems to me the safest and most convenient....

Thanks,
Chris

So I've been reading the whole thread and I was trying consider few options:
1) I'd like to buy (I live in Italy) a bass from a fellow bass player who lives in the USA.
I settle price and shipping (which is outrageously expensive through UPS - near 450$) with him.
Which is the best way to transfer money & instrument ?
(not considering the usual scam systems, moneygram, western union, cashier check, shipping, escrow service etc etc)
1) International money order - can be forged
2) Paypal ?
3) COD ?
4) bank transfer ?
I have no idea if USPS allows sending a package cash on delivery (any idea fellows?) but this (like paypal payment) won't help us with the different instrument trick.

I mean, if I pay 3000$ for a Sadowsky and I receive a battered P copy, I assume Paypal won't help, nor USPS will.

Ok, I can track seller (as explained in first post), but I cannot be sure of the package contents.

Any idea to get out of this catch 22 situation ??

I have two TBer's both with 6 or 7 very good feedacks.
One from the UK and one from Argentina.
I read this whole thread :o
I'm pretty sure I should use PayPal.
Is there any other way to ship besides FED EX / UPS and get a tracking number?
What would be the best way to ship these $400 preamps?

im buying form someone rigth now re said he reived my money and he said it will take like 3-5 days to clear on his end so he could ship it to meim nervous that he just ran off with the money his reviws on TB looked good and he has a 10 out of 10 100% user rateing

do you have any info about the seller? home phone number ?
Try to contact the other buyers with whom your seller has done business.

he's being paranoid, he sent the money out on Wed, via check(since it needs to clear) and the seller lives on the opposite side of the country.

im buying form someone rigth now re said he reived my money and he said it will take like 3-5 days to clear on his end so he could ship it to meim nervous that he just ran off with the money his reviws on TB looked good and he has a 10 out of 10 100% user rateing

Relax, take a chill pill, whatever....you should be okay. From what I understand, you paid by check not PayPal so its expected the seller will verify funds have cleared before shipping. He also has a 100% approval rating; I believe you're starting at rock-bottom.

Riis

This isn't about being ripped off, just about safe process: I'm in conversation with a TBer about buying a bass that would need to be shipped from the east coast to Colorado. Is UPS Ground OK in terms of keeping the instrument in good condition if the weather should turn cold? Sorry if this is obvious, but I'm more familiar with acoustic instruments that are probably more vulnerable and so I just wanted some other opinions on the subject. Thanks from a newbie.

Always try to get ALL specs of bass you are gonna buy. I recentlly bought a bass from a TB'er here and found out truss rod was snapped!!! many emails and no responce. seller said there was nothing wrong with bass. It had scratches, a broken volume pot and broken truss rod!

Chep

I get the same replies as Planet Boulder on Craigs List. It sucks, no hits except scammers. Even Pay Pal can be risky.
I have tried a different approach, Fed Ex COD on some ads but still people shy away.
It should be safe for seller and buyer. The item is insured and no money no delivery.
Anyone use this method?

Everything can be risky depending on the seller and the buyer.
Both can scam the other side, seller sending the box of rocks, the buyer filing a paypal claim and getting his money back.
In this catch 22 situation, I always talk a lot with the seller and send money through bank transfer to have a proof of money sent since bank account cannot be opened anonymously.
I exchange a lot of mail, write down exactly what must be sent to me and its conditions, and once package comes, I start taking photos BEFORE opening the box, to show exactly what I received.