Mods, feel free to move this wherever you want, but I thought the classifieds was the most appropriate place to post this.


I get about 2 or 3 requests a month from people asking me to help them track down someone who has ripped them off on a transaction on eBay, HC, Bassgear, etc. I'm more than happy to help out, but the one thing I have noticed is that a lot of people don't protect themselves as much as they could. Here's a little checklist to go through that I posted over on the Dudepit that can help you guys avoid a lot of grief when doing a deal with someone you don't know.

In the future, I hope everyone here checks out people before they do business with them. A lot of you guys here buy and sell a lot of gear, and if you know the person...great. But if not make sure you get a home phone# a work phone # a cell phone# home address etc. check out the info too. Call the person. If you think they gave you a cell# as a home or work # - check it out here:
www.fonefinder.net/

It will tell you if it's a land line or a cell and what city it goes to.

Reverse the phone#s and addresses they gave you to see where they go. Argali is really good for this. You can also reverse the address.

Just go to www.argali.com and download their program.

If you think the address is a mail drop you can check that out as well at http://www.finaid.com/scholarships/maildropsearch.phtml

If you want to find out who owns the address they give you to send payment to you can also go to
www.skipease.com/property.html

Select the state and county of the address. A lot of them have online databases, but you can call the tax assessor as well and find out who owns that property.

These are just a few of the free online resouces you can use to protect yourself and verify the information the seller gives you is accurate.

Ask for references from other people they have done business with. If I'm shelling out $100 for an effect pedal or $3000 for a bass, I want to know if the person is honest or not,

Make sure the info they give you checks out before you give up any of your hard earned cash. An honest seller won't be offended in the least when you ask them for this info.

Very good post!

Great info!

Maybe we could talk the mods into making this a sticky - it's great info!

Great info. I'd like to add one of my basics:

If it smells funny, walk away. You started the day without it, it probably won't kill you to end it the same way.

Great info. I'd like to add one of my basics:

If it smells funny, walk away. You started the day without it, it probably won't kill you to end it the same way.
If I always followed that rule, I would never eat any Mexican food! :D

BTW Great post - this should be stickied at the top of the forum!

I would request this become a sticky... it is a really good post

Definitely. Been a fan of Juggs for a while now. He knows his stuff, big time.

ditto on the sticky!

ditto on the sticky!

Jugghaid, you sure ain't no "jugghaid".......... excellent info.

Also, if the other party checks out - even a homemade receipt with "Received and Paid in Full" written on it by the buyer/seller holds up in court.

No more, "Dude! I never got your check/money order!"

Great post, Jugghaid!:cool: I am going to sticky this one for now. Might also be a good idea to eventually put this in the site FAQ.

Thanks for the kind words gentlemen. I get real tired of seeing my bass playing brethren getting ripped off.

Jugghaid, you sure ain't no "jugghaid".......... excellent info.

Also, if the other party checks out - even a homemade receipt with "Received and Paid in Full" written on it by the buyer/seller holds up in court.

No more, "Dude! I never got your check/money order!"

I ALWAYS retain the receipt of the money order I purchase until well AFTER I get the item that I bought just in case anybody tries to play any funny business. I haven't been ripped off yet, and I hope I never am!

Just to add to this (and I know that this scam has been mentioned on other threads, but it's probably best to put it on a sticky thread):

The scam in which the "interested buyer" states that he will be issuing a cashier's check from a bank and that a third party will be involved in the shipment continues to rear its ugly head.

I just placed an ad on a new music classifieds site and received three 3-mails in one day from three different addresses attempting the same scam.

The English is typically broken and the spelling/grammar are usually pretty poor - this is at least one component of these e-mail "offers".

BEWARE of these offers! They are scams and you will NEVER see dime one.

Here is an example of the e-mails that you may receive:

Dear Seller,
I am interested in your advert.i will need to know the last price you will be selling as i am ready to make an offer.I will be paying with a cashire's check drawn from a US bank therefore i hope this payment method is okay with you.If the payment method is okay do get back to me asap with your full name,contact address and phone number so that the cheque can be issued asap. Concerning the shippment,i will need you to get back to me so that we can discuss on this .i am already making an arrangement with a shipper of mine who will be coming for the pick up. I hope to read back from you soonest.

That kind of scam is like the P-P-P-Powerbook. Escrow services are not a good way to go. It takes as muh faith to just send money and hope it gets there as it does to use an escrow service. Good post, Mr. Boulder!

I just completed another deal on TB. Never been ripped off yet.

The bass way to be safe is to just deal with the TB "family". No one gets ripped off here. If they do, there are enough of us around the country to track down the offender, and hang them from their toe nails.

-Mike

A helpful hint from todd 4ta, for when things really turn to s... poo.

... I've also opened a case with the FBI's new Internet Fraud unit and they have said they will definitely be able to track him down. The website is here IFCC (http://www.ifccfbi.gov/index.asp) in case anyone else needs it. They have a lot of good info on there.

i havn't looked on this thread in a good while. this is a really good thread btw.
i think that if anyone has any doubt at all about the product's quality and everything, that they probably should stay away from it, unless they can play it or whatever in person.
I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT ANYONE ON TB. i don't that anyone has gotten ripped off in the TB "family", as previously said.

Perhaps let me add something to Planet Boulder's story.

I got an email of somebody who was interested in my Streamer Bass (which I still have for sale over here on TB too anyway) and was very fast in replying. Constantly talking about husband, kids etc... this woman keeps talking about her man which arranges shipment and payment.

Now be aware... (I still don't hope they are one of these people anyway)... there are some people who use the construction of letting someone else on their behalf pay the price of whatever you are having for sale. In our language: A nice bass, cab... amplifier. But then they send a larger sum of money to you, while paying with a false cheque. The bank takes back this amount of your bank account, while you already sent the bass to the buyer and remit the amount which is left after taking your costs into account.

So in the end you loose the bass, a certain amount of money AND the price of the bass in the end, because your bank takes it back from your bank account. A friend of me noticed this repetitive construction in this case and it can be used by a lot of people.


That's why I took a Paypal membership! Hopefully they just pay the bass, but I'm a bit frightened they won't.....

Mods, feel free to move this wherever you want, but I thought the classifieds was the most appropriate place to post this.


I get about 2 or 3 requests a month from people asking me to help them track down someone who has ripped them off on a transaction on eBay, HC, Bassgear, etc. I'm more than happy to help out, but the one thing I have noticed is that a lot of people don't protect themselves as much as they could. Here's a little checklist to go through that I posted over on the Dudepit that can help you guys avoid a lot of grief when doing a deal with someone you don't know.

In the future, I hope everyone here checks out people before they do business with them. A lot of you guys here buy and sell a lot of gear, and if you know the person...great. But if not make sure you get a home phone# a work phone # a cell phone# home address etc. check out the info too. Call the person. If you think they gave you a cell# as a home or work # - check it out here:
www.fonefinder.net/

It will tell you if it's a land line or a cell and what city it goes to.

Reverse the phone#s and addresses they gave you to see where they go. Argali is really good for this. You can also reverse the address.

Just go to www.argali.com and download their program.

If you think the address is a mail drop you can check that out as well at http://www.finaid.com/scholarships/maildropsearch.phtml

If you want to find out who owns the address they give you to send payment to you can also go to
www.skipease.com/property.html

Select the state and county of the address. A lot of them have online databases, but you can call the tax assessor as well and find out who owns that property.

These are just a few of the free online resouces you can use to protect yourself and verify the information the seller gives you is accurate.

Ask for references from other people they have done business with. If I'm shelling out $100 for an effect pedal or $3000 for a bass, I want to know if the person is honest or not,

Make sure the info they give you checks out before you give up any of your hard earned cash. An honest seller won't be offended in the least when you ask them for this info.
Excellent info my man. Much appreciated. However, I might add that in the past, I have exchanged a scanned copy of each person's drivers liscense in addition to a home address. This seems to be fool proof IMO, and makes both parties comfortable.

Excellent info my man. Much appreciated. However, I might add that in the past, I have exchanged a scanned copy of each person's drivers liscense in addition to a home address. This seems to be fool proof IMO, and makes both parties comfortable.
Good suggestion.

Is it safe to give your checkings account number + routing number of your bank to a stranger so that he can wire the money directly to your account when you sell a bass?

Especially when the buyer is in a different country, it is easier for him to use a wire transfer than mailing a bank check to you.

But,I just don't know if it is safe though. Can someone potentially take money from your checkings account if they have the account number and your name?

Is it safe to give your checkings account number + routing number of your bank to a stranger so that he can wire the money directly to your account when you sell a bass?

Especially when the buyer is in a different country, it is easier for him to use a wire transfer than mailing a bank check to you.

But,I just don't know if it is safe though. Can someone potentially take money from your checkings account if they have the account number and your name?

Don't do this. It is another way that people can access your account. They can post a withdrawl with this info, and it will look totally legit. Have them send you an international money order, and then you know it is good. It has to be paid for before it can be sent, so it's value is there. A check can be stopped. Always go with money orders if you are not sure, they are probably one of the safest ways to do a transaction, and remember to let everything clear first.

Don't do this. It is another way that people can access your account. They can post a withdrawl with this info, and it will look totally legit. Have them send you an international money order, and then you know it is good. It has to be paid for before it can be sent, so it's value is there. A check can be stopped. Always go with money orders if you are not sure, they are probably one of the safest ways to do a transaction, and remember to let everything clear first.
I agree. Use an escrow service.

Does anyone use paypal?? They seem to protect both parties

never been ripped off so far...... most of my purchases are off ebay.

Does anyone use paypal?? They seem to protect both parties
yup... it offers some form of protection.... i think.

Not an appropriate use of the For Sale forums or this thread. Go post about it in the Feedback Forum.

Just to add to this (and I know that this scam has been mentioned on other threads, but it's probably best to put it on a sticky thread):

The scam in which the "interested buyer" states that he will be issuing a cashier's check from a bank and that a third party will be involved in the shipment continues to rear its ugly head.

I just placed an ad on a new music classifieds site and received three 3-mails in one day from three different addresses attempting the same scam.

The English is typically broken and the spelling/grammar are usually pretty poor - this is at least one component of these e-mail "offers".

BEWARE of these offers! They are scams and you will NEVER see dime one.

Here is an example of the e-mails that you may receive:

Amazing, Someone is currently using this scam on me! They also insist you to send the money via Western Union as soon as the "cashier's check" gets deposited. They even offer to give you compensation for being inconvenienced!( $100 in my case) This person also never even asked the condition of the bass! What really cracked me up is that the person claimed she was an older lady from Chelsea England (buying a Stingray 5!!) and "her" e-mail address was maryjohnson@dbzmail.com. That's "Dragonball Z mail!! I saved all the e-mails. If you guys want I will post them here so you can see ezactly what to look for.
BTW I posted my ad on bassgear.com not on TB.
From now on I am only dealing with you guys.

Peace

Some repitition of what's already been stated, but here's a link to the CraigsList scams page:
http://www.craigslist.org/about/scams.html

I've received two attempts to scam me in the last 2 days.

The first:
Hello,
I saw your advert over the web and am much interested in buying it. I live in CANADA,I will be responsible for the shippment down to my location, so please kindly write me back with your last offering price.I will also need some of its recent pics,and will like to know its present condition .I am Looking forward to your soonest reply.
MY REGARDS AND WILL LIKE YOU TO CONTACT ME DIRECTLY WITH MY EMAIL ADDRESS m_bartons6@yahoo.com

Followed by a second email from him:
Greetings,
Everything sounds well and am okay with the prize $2100 and I will be offering you $2200 for it so i will want you to keep other buyer's off.Concerning payment I have a friend in the state who is ready to issue you a Certified Cashier's check in Usa funds since I don't have the funds in your currency. For convinient and easy transaction, I have a liable shipping agent who'd be responsible for the shipping as soon as you receive payment for the BASS .I will therefore need the following information of yours to forward to my friend before he sends the check.....
NAME IN FULL........
ADDRESS IN FULL..........
STATE..............
ZIPCODE........
COUNTRY.........
CELL/OFFICE/HOME PHONE NUMBER.......
I await your soonest reply
MY REGARDS

The third party thing got my attention at first. I mean, he could just walk down to any bank here and get a US funds money order. It would be exactly the same as a Canadian one except for US dollars. Also, in my reply I said I'd take $2300 CDN for the bass and from the reply email he obviously didn't know what CDN meant. Also he has a friend in the state... I'm not in the US, which he must not have understood from the bassgear post. Plus, no one in Canada speaks like that.

Then the much more obvious scam:
We are interested in buying your above mentioned Warwick Dolphin Pro I 4 String at advertised rate. Bass will be picked up from your location for onward shipping to London. Cost and modalities of shipping to be born by us.

Payment for the purchase is by check through a debtor in US. The debtor owes us higher than our purchase. He will therefore be sending you a check for $7,000 to cover the cost of our order, as well as the Shipping costs.

On receipt of the check, you will cash and deduct the cost of our order .The balance you will send as we would instruct you to the Agency that will ship the bass to us. If this arrangement suites you fine, please send us your address where to send the check, as well as the name to be on it. Also send us your phone number for easy communication.
Looking forward to hearing from you.

Thank you.

Best Regards

MR. BOB WILSON.

Well, that's one's pretty obvious since the bass I'm selling isn't a Warwick at all. It's a Rob Allen. Also $7000 check... (alarms go off).

Maybe someone can use this to recognize something if they get sent a scam.

To add, if you are going to pay with credit card over the internet many of today's credit card companies allow you to make a temporary card for online purchase. Since i have MBNA I will use that as an example. On their website I can log into my account and goto ShopSafe. That allows me to create a temporary credit card number. I defined the spending limit and expiration time (minimum 2 months for MBNA), they spit out a number. That way if someone does steal your number on the internet you minimize your losses.

IMO, reading through some of these scam emails sheds some light on how awkward they sound and ultimately how fishy they smell. :eyebrow:

The balance you will send

Mmmmm. yes jedi The balance you will send.

Friggin Yoda is trying to scam us out of all our gear. :)

I just bought an Allen guitar amp off of Harmony Central classifieds, and was a bit nervous. I arranged with the seller to send half of the payment via USPS money order, then he'd send the amp, then I'd send the rest. That way, we were equally splitting the risk of getting ripped off. Worked out great, only downside was that I had to pay for 2 money orders and 2 priority mails.

It always scares them off that I tell them I'll cash the check and keep the tip. They never seem to write back after that.....

:D

It always scares them off that I tell them I'll cash the check and keep the tip. They never seem to write back after that.....

:D

I guess I'm lucky that nobody has tried to scam me (knock on wood), or maybe I'm too cautious. But how does offering more money for what something is worth a scam?

I'm assuming either their payment does clear, and the bass is shipped before and it never comes back. Or is this some sort of money laundering scheme? Where they just give you $2000 to send them $5000?

It can take a while for fake money orders/cashier's checks to be detected--legally, your bank has to make those funds available to you within 5 days, but it can take them weeks to find out the MO/CC was bogus.

The ONLY reason anyone is going to offer you a payment like that for way over what something's worth and ask you to sent to difference back is to scam you.

See these Tips for Fake Check Scams: http://www.fraud.org/tips/internet/fakecheck.htm

Mike

Sometimes I opt not to sell gear via eBay. If I have something for private sale (not through eBay) and I'm not going to be seeing the buyer face-to-face, I offer to create a "buy-it-now" auction on eBay at the amount we agreed upon. This can increase the comfort factor for the buyer.

For stuff I'm buying that's not listed through eBay, I'll often request they create a buy-it-now auction, provided the other party already has an eBay account with a decent amount of feedback, all positive.

I believe we're less likely to be scammed this way, since eBayers don't want to have bad feedback. The downside is that you have to pay eBay a seller's fee, but that can be built into the price for the mutual "protection" by eBay.

It's worked well for me so far!

Chris

hey i just want to say thanks heaps for all this information!

i had been drooling over a bass that was on ebay. i was really keen to buy it, and sometimes that gets in the way of good judgement. It was all just a little bit fishy. the guy had all positive feedback, but only 6 or something, all for buying (things between about $500 and $2000). he was fairly slow to answer his emails and simply didn't respond when i asked for some additional photo's and information. Also, he would only accept payment by check or money order, which i found a little strange.

Anyway, i happened upon this thread just in time. I requested the sellers information from ebay then downloaded the Argali program that jugghaid mentioned. used the reverse phone number search and subsequently found that the number the guy had registered didn't actually exist. i even double checked, searching for his name in the state he said he was from, and the guy doesn't exist!!

i'm so glad i came accross all this info at such a crucial time, because i was starting to talk myself into buying it anyway. It's a lot harder when you really want it!!

so, thanks so much to jugghaid for all that awesome info, i really appreciate it!

like brad johnson said, if it smells funny, walk away. i came way too close to losing a serious amount of money.

THANKS AGAIN!

over and out,
andy.

hey i just want to say thanks heaps for all this information!

i had been drooling over a bass that was on ebay. i was really keen to buy it, and sometimes that gets in the way of good judgement. It was all just a little bit fishy. the guy had all positive feedback, but only 6 or something, all for buying (things between about $500 and $2000). he was fairly slow to answer his emails and simply didn't respond when i asked for some additional photo's and information. Also, he would only accept payment by check or money order, which i found a little strange.

Anyway, i happened upon this thread just in time. I requested the sellers information from ebay then downloaded the Argali program that jugghaid mentioned. used the reverse phone number search and subsequently found that the number the guy had registered didn't actually exist. i even double checked, searching for his name in the state he said he was from, and the guy doesn't exist!!

i'm so glad i came accross all this info at such a crucial time, because i was starting to talk myself into buying it anyway. It's a lot harder when you really want it!!

so, thanks so much to jugghaid for all that awesome info, i really appreciate it!

like brad johnson said, if it smells funny, walk away. i came way too close to losing a serious amount of money.

THANKS AGAIN!

over and out,
andy.
Glad to help bro. A good rule of thumb for anyone is "If it doesn't feel right, don't do it....walk away."

I'm kind of new to the on-line purchasing thing. So I need help with this situation. I've been wanting an effects pedal that is no longer being made. It just so happens that a member of TB PMed me about a new (unused) pedal that he found in his country, Taiwan. He said that he bought one, sold one to another TBer just recently and has offered to buy it and send it to me. He will make some money off the transaction, but that's OK in my book. He mentioned paypal for payment, but we haven't gotten into any detailed discussions. (At least not until I just read this thread).

Question: How do I protect myself across borders? If I send him the money, and he doesn't send the pedal or sends a broken one, do I have any recourse?

He seems to be a nice guy, but everybody's a nice guy when they want your money.

Ive had experiences with buyers trying to get money out of me. I sold something on ebay and the buyer said that it was broken. I told him I wanted to go through UPS to get the damage insurance but he came up with some BS. Then I asked if he could record it to show the problem. No he doesnt have acess and wouldnt download a free program. He then tells me the preferable situation would be for him to get it repaired and have me pay 75 percent of the cost. Everytime I sell on ebay now I just have a no refund policy. Other places I might refund if they could prove it was my fault.

I just completed another deal on TB. Never been ripped off yet.

The bass way to be safe is to just deal with the TB "family". No one gets ripped off here. If they do, there are enough of us around the country to track down the offender, and hang them from their toe nails.

-Mike
Yea, I wish I knew how that works. I just got ripped off for the first time here. Thank God it's only $25 for a set of strings, but I've been promised them since 11/5 when I paid via paypal and keep getting "they went out..." "Sorry about the delay, they went out..."

I wish there were a way to resolve disputes here, but I know that's asking too much.

I'm kind of new to the on-line purchasing thing. So I need help with this situation. I've been wanting an effects pedal that is no longer being made. It just so happens that a member of TB PMed me about a new (unused) pedal that he found in his country, Taiwan. He said that he bought one, sold one to another TBer just recently and has offered to buy it and send it to me. He will make some money off the transaction, but that's OK in my book. He mentioned paypal for payment, but we haven't gotten into any detailed discussions. (At least not until I just read this thread).

Question: How do I protect myself across borders? If I send him the money, and he doesn't send the pedal or sends a broken one, do I have any recourse?

He seems to be a nice guy, but everybody's a nice guy when they want your money.


Hey. I'd like to add a comment to this post I made last year. The TB member I was commenting about was Mingustoo. He sent me the effect with no problem. I'd deal with him again if the need was there.

All good advice. Thanks! The links are great info!
I want to add one more thing, (at risk of sounding like Obi-Wan)
Trust your instincts.
If a deal starts to make you jittery, or just doesn't feel right, :hmm: don't be embarrassed to back out. Chances are good that you are responding to subtle clues that you just aren't thinking about.
I've regretted a number of deals that I went through with against my instincts, just because I was too embarrassed to say "this doesn't feel right" and back out while I still could.:(

Yea, I wish I knew how that works. I just got ripped off for the first time here. Thank God it's only $25 for a set of strings, but I've been promised them since 11/5 when I paid via paypal and keep getting "they went out..." "Sorry about the delay, they went out..."

I wish there were a way to resolve disputes here, but I know that's asking too much.

Disappointing to hear that it happened hear. Who was it? (in case he/she is dumb enough to try the same thing again under the same user name) Sounds like could be a flake not than a deliberate rip off -imo- (Flaky musician? No way ;) )
Not that that makes it any better. You still got burned.:bawl:

the nigerian conterfitter strikes again.

got 2 money orders, $850 a piece today, (supposed to be for $300 total)

when i called the guy to ask what was going on he was like "oh, they must have put an 8 instead of 1, just give the extra to the pickup guy"

i ofcourse was like f that, cus i know how this stuff goes down. so i contacted the police, who contacted the guy the money orders were in the name of.
some poor guy in CA who got his identity stolen.

the thing that actually sucks is i missed a chance to sell my gt 6b so someone because of this :(

Just wanted to add to this:

READ THE AD! Don't blame the seller because you couldn't read properly...

Also, if you want insurance, make sure and ask for the item to be FULLY insured. I lost out on $150 because a bass that I bought was only insured for $500 and not the selling price of $650.
Jonathan

Does anyone know where i can get some? i have a mesa power house 1000 and need the casters, but the site wont let me post an ad for whatever reason idk help me out!

Does anyone know where i can get some? i have a mesa power house 1000 and need the casters, but the site wont let me post an ad for whatever reason idk help me out!

What's this post doing here?

i got one of those emails a while ago when i was selling my cello gig bag on craigslist. the thing is, they offered to give me $300 when i had advertised it for $50. they must be getting pretty desperate...:eyebrow:

thanks for all this great info.. I was just going to try and sell some gear on the TB classifieds for the first time and saw the sticky.
I will be super cautious.

Just thought I'd throw this in the mix: I almost got scammed the other day by someone basically offering a Mac Pro worth well over £3000 for £500 on gumtree.com, and was supposedly going to do the deal through ebay. She, in the end, wanted my full name, ebay ID and postage address. It seemed legit, so I sent out my full name and ebay ID (and not the address). I explained that if she correctly set up a BIN acution that she would get my address with it. She replied asking for the address, and I again said that she would get it with the ID, and I havn't heard from her in a god few months now. ust to flag up another method of scamming that seemed legit :D