I have a sobering and embarassing tale to tell.

I was puttering around the kitchen this morning when the phone rings and the caller ID shows it's the #1 bandleader in town (a smoking bassist but is just the singer in his own band). This guy has been leading a top draw funk/soul band for over 15 years. In 2 hours they are headlining a benefit for Katrina victims and he tells me his bassist (the #1 guy in town) can't make it. Another killer bassist I know has recommended me. I'd play their show then back up any of the guests (all the top names in town) who need me. It would give me a chance to show my stuff in front of great players who don't know me, a networker's wet dream.

Then it happens: he says "So would you like to come down and blow through some CHARTS with us?"

I first started reading music forty years ago but once I got out of the school band I never had to read on stage. I can still read, but only at the most basic level...enough to work through charts and instructional material at home but not enough to sightread charts at full tempo.

I do the professional thing and tell him "I appreciate the call, please thank the guy who recommended me but I can't sightread bass lines". As a result I will never again get the call to play with the #1 guys in town.

People, do yourself a BIG favor: if you want to keep playing till they plant you in the ground, you need to be ready for anything. You can be a groove monster as well as a burning soloist, you can slap and tap and you can own all the latest and greatest booteek gear but if you can't read down a chart on the stage sooner or later you're going to lose an important gig to the guys who can.

Wow, thanks for sharing that, Brian. Sorry you couldn't make it. Blowing through chord charts and reading notation are two completely different animals.

I'm doing a Jazz workshop where the teacher brings in new charts he arranged every week. The other bass player in the class is a nice enough guy, but he can't play the basslines without writing the note names in first. Even so, he still can't nail the lines because he can't deal with the rhythm.

I told him the only way to learn to read music is to sit down and do it. Like anything else, you gotta put in the hours. Hopefully, he'll take it to heart. We'll see.

I should follow my own advice...

My bass teacher really pushes the importance of being able to read notation. I've decided the only way I'm ever going to be able to do it is by sitting down, feeling like I know nothing to begin with, and put in the hours! Just picked up a copy of Sight Reading For Bass by Josquin Des Pres as well, thats definately helping me out. Sorry you couldn't get the gig mate.

That's a bummer Brian, I'd like to also add that it's critical you read something everyday and the more gigs you play reading, the better you get at reading and reading on the job in real time.

I'm a pianist picking up bass, so my objective in whatever practice I do is to visualize the bass just like I do the piano, or as close as possible. This means notes and key signatures only ... I want to be able to switch back and forth and share my knowledge between the two instruments. I avoid tabulature.

The bass is easier than the piano visually, because all key centers look the same on the neck (there aren't any black and white frets so to speak)

Much of my 'practice' involves walking basslines, using PG Music software for jazz trios, where I can follow the bass notation. The software records the tracks of some great bassists, so I can just listen to how they build a bassline; I can turn them off, and play along with the drums and piano.

Maybe a little lazy ... but honestly, I am getting comfortable with the neck, my technique is getting more comfortable, and it's a lot more fun than drum machines and metronomes. (I'll do some work with my drum machine one of these days ... honest!) ;)

I've said it before, I read music better than I read english - and I own my house because of it. There is no more important skill if you want to work as a professional.

I can read, I just don't want to.

I was late to the marching band season and he handed me all three songs. I learned the first one (memorized) in that day, the second one I had down in two days, and the third one I had down soon after. I put down the bass and started helping the tubas. :smug:

I've been telling myself to do this for years. Heh. I have an understanding of sheet music, but I don't know it well enough to just haul off and play through it. Thanks for sharing this Brian, hopefully I'll get going with it.

I've embarassed myself a few times. The up-side is you tend to learn from it, that's the main thng. I often wondered if I do it deliberately. :hmm:

I can read, I just don't want to.

I was late to the marching band season and he handed me all three songs. I learned the first one (memorized) in that day, the second one I had down in two days, and the third one I had down soon after. I put down the bass and started helping the tubas. :smug:
Thunk.

Well that's great for your marching band that you can do that. And if you don't intend on ever being a professional bassist for hire, you really don't need it. But this thread was intended for people who ARE trying to be a professional bassist for hire, or at least I thought it was. And if you ever intend on going past marching band level, then it's in your best interests to learn how to sightread as well as you can. The best-paying gigs in every town in the world go to the readers. Why? Because other musicians assume that if you can sightread well, then you can play pretty much anything.

KeithBMI, Your lack of experience shows in that statement. Band music? Comments like that show me the ignorance of youth. If you can make comments like that, you obviously don't aspire to paying your bills with playing the bass. You can never read "good enough." :spit:

Wow Brian, sorry to hear that man, that's a painful way to learn a lesson. I had to fill in for a band one time and had to try and sight-read Whiter Shade Of Pale onstage... not one of my proudest moments.

Very true maybe if you can squeeze a half hour a day of reading rhythms and ten mins on pitch hopefully will help but then you gotta want to do it but like they all say if you got the desire then nothing can stop you from achieving your goal

My ability to read is the #1 reason people call me. Like Pacman, it's the reading that pays the bills. Tough lesson to learn though.

Okay, okay! I'm way overdue to correct this deficiency in my own playing. So I'm gonna do it. That's it!

Thanks for the kick in the shorts... :eek:

MM

I for one, can't read music, and never have been able to... I started playing bass in highschool... in about year 8 or 9... and for the remaining 4 years I was getting a lesson from the music teacher at school... Reading never really came up :confused: ... It was all just tabs and technique... Since I joined talkbass I've realised the importance of reading, and I'm thinking I should start getting bass lessons again, because I've been playing for 4-5 years, and I would struggle to name every note on the neck without thinking about it for a few seconds :eek: ...

Yea, thanks for sharing your story, really makes me wanna go and start learning!
:hiding:

My ability to read is the #1 reason people call me. Like Pacman, it's the reading that pays the bills. Tough lesson to learn though.+1,reading helps me do a wider range of gigs witch =more $$$

That sucks man :|

I'm getting into reading, 2 years into playing... I feel like I'm too old to keep learning and get brilliant at the bass / reading, but I'm determined to get to a point where I can play and read music naturally, and make some kind of money out of it.

a good advice is to try to develop the kind of reading that most classical players do. well my english kind of fails, but hopefully you people will understand

in this situation you have 10 notes on the paper

when you play the first note, you have already been reading the 4th, and when you play the 4th you are reading the 8 and so on. it's like your reading should be always ahead of what you're playing, that way you don't encounter surprises. but this is hard work for you're short term memory.(because you have to memorise images in a short time and transform them into a fast innate response)

In this moment i'm trying to develop good reading skills, i'm also practicing this at the piano and reading hymns and little choirs, so i practice vertical reading that moves in blocks (from one chord to another and another and...)

Wow, i know how to read but i'm so slow...

you know, i can see what the notes are pretty fast but when i've found out a couple of notes i have to go back because i've already forgotten the first note... i guess i have to practice reading for a while, it will help my musical deegree in school too...

I'm trying to work on reading, but finding things written in the bass clef is quite hard. So I read jazz tunes from fake books, which has the result of making me pretty decent at the treble clef, but hopeless at bass clef...

I'm trying to work on reading, but finding things written in the bass clef is quite hard. So I read jazz tunes from fake books, which has the result of making me pretty decent at the treble clef, but hopeless at bass clef...

get a copy of Ed Friedland's book, The Hal Leonard Bass Method, which will get you started on the fundamentals of reading. I've been working with a trombone book, Arban's Complete Method For the Trombone. Trombone music is more helpful than traditional "bass guitar" music, since it is more melodic and less dependant on repeating patterns. The key signatures are more challenging as well, as typical "guitar keys" (E A and G) are not as common as "horn keys" (Eb, Bb and F)

I've been working with a trombone book, Arban's Complete Method For the Trombone. Trombone music is more helpful than traditional "bass guitar" music, since it is more melodic and less dependant on repeating patterns.

Great idea. My students complain of the boring excercises in the beginning of learning to read. I'll have to look into this. Thanks.

Learning to read music is the same as learning to read your own language. It takes a little time every day. Also, put yourself out there doing reading gigs pretty early on. It's a really important way to get yourself out there and to see first hand how important it is to read. I pretty much learned to read on the job. The fact that I always had a great attitude and I would practice the tunes while everyone else took a break helped me to not get fired each time. I eventually could read quite well. I myself have a difficult time reading really complicated charts but with more and more work and dedication it becomes easier.

For anyone else interested in the Arban method book for trombone, I just found this page:

http://www.encoremupub.com/9175.htm

I also use and reccommend the Simandl Book.

Book 1:
http://shop1.mailordercentral.com/lemurmusic/prodinfo.asp?number=CFE01

Book 2:
http://shop1.mailordercentral.com/lemurmusic/prodinfo.asp?number=CFE02

I've been using Arban's forever - great book.

I also like the Bach Cello Suites (for Cello - not the adaptations)
Rich Appleman's "Reading Contemporary Electric Bass Rhythms" - Berklee Press
The Charlie Parker Omnibook - bass clef
Simandl Method for Double bass


I'm sure I'll think of more, but these are my favorite...

I like the trombone books as well. Mostly because I already have them...

Favourites...

Melodious Etudes 1,2,3
12 Studies in Tenor, Bass and Alto Clefs (fantastic for either transposition or for reading out of bass clef)
Advanced lip flexibilities for trombone & Euphonium. (Very Freaking hard to read on bass)
Studies in Legato Books 1,2,3

And of Course...
The Omnibook, All fakebooks (Treble and bass clef)

I try to read all treble clef in concert as well as if it was writen in Bb so that I can read trumpet lead charts. I got roasted trying to read one at a gig once. Never again...

Wow I'm a dork. Not just a normal dork. But a classical and jazz loving dork...

I've been using Arban's forever - great book.

I also like the Bach Cello Suites (for Cello - not the adaptations)
Rich Appleman's "Reading Contemporary Electric Bass Rhythms" - Berklee Press
The Charlie Parker Omnibook - bass clef
Simandl Method for Double bass


I'm sure I'll think of more, but these are my favorite...

Ah, great stuff. I forgot the omnibook. I've always wanted to pickup the other two. Good reminder.

Anthony Jackson uses these two:

Sturm 110 STUDIES Op.20 Vol. 1 for String Bass
Sturm 110 STUDIES Op. 20 Vol. 2 for String Bass

The method I used to learn standard notation was to start writing it. There are dozens of notation editors on the web, which have been avaliable for some time now, and most if not all have midi playback.

The best known notation editor is Sibelius 4. It comes with good tutorials too.


I also use reference material as well.

http://www.sibelius.com/cgi-bin/home/home.pl

Here's one I've never seen, simply title "sight reading for bass". (I'm just looking through www.lemurmusic.com)

http://shop1.mailordercentral.com/lemurmusic/prodinfo.asp?number=B199

Being able to read is essential in my opinion. I play a church gig every week where we basically play out of a hymnal or some kind of songbook where it's basically just a piano score with chord symbols. We only get about 10 minutes to rehearse before we have to play, so being able to read notation and chord charts is very valuable.

I spend about an hour each day just reading music with my bass. The only problem is, it's usually me reading the Bach cello suites while I'm tuned in 5ths, but I gig mostly in 4ths. Oh well. It keeps me on my toes a bit.

I taught myself to read with the Standing in the Shadows of Motown book. The best part of it is that you have basslines in different difficulty levels plus recordings, so you can learn them by ear as well.

I started by just looking at the music and learning to identify the notes before playing them. I still use it and it never gets old. Really worth the price.

I also have Jamey Aebersold's Ron Carter transcriptions and Mike Richmond's Walking Bass book.

The method I used to learn standard notation was to start writing it. There are dozens of notation editors on the web, which have been avaliable for some time now, and most if not all have midi playback.

The best known notation editor is Sibelius 4. It comes with good tutorials too.


I also use reference material as well.

http://www.sibelius.com/cgi-bin/home/home.pl
Sibelius Booooo. Finale Yay!

Sibelius Booooo. Finale Yay!

Finale booo, Sibelius yay!

But seriously, it's just whatever you're most comfortable with.

hey guys,

i've been learning to read for a couple of years now. i started studying music at university level, and i was thrown in the deep end a bit..

in the last 6 months my reading has improved heaps.. i think the biggest help has been transcription. i'm not sure why, but after transcribing paul jackson's line in spank-a-lee, 16th note lines have become a lot easier. i think transcribing really forces you to really break down the rhythms (as well as the notes), and that, for me, was the biggest problem with sightreading.

i've used the Bach cello suites as well, and they're great for learning the notes, but rhythmically they're not really that challenging.. a good spot to begin. the Jamerson book i really recommend - lots of rhythmic variation there!!

also, practicing going through charts and singing the lines has been a big help as well. all my lecturers often say "how you sing it is how you play it".. because reading isn't just playing the notes, but interpreting the music stylistically as well.

ahh.. just my 0.27c

anyway, better get back to practice..

andy.

I started to take lessons with an excellent local bassist about six months ago. After the second lesson he gave me four very large books and said "come back when you can read properly". I haven't gone back yet :rolleyes:

Thing is, I can read and write music, I just cant sight read anything beyond crochets at 80bpm :D (heh, not actually funny, just pathetic).

The biggest problems I have are a) finding time to pratice (with 9to5 job and 3 month old baby daughter, 4 bands and Saturday jazz class), and b) as soon as I hear something I stop reading it and play it by ear. To combat this I have to contually read new material, if I play through something twice I start to play from memery instead which kinda defeats the point!

And yeah, a real bummer of a story that is, but, still, good on for not taking the gig anyway and making a real stink of it. Lots of less cool people *ahem, guitarists* ;) would have done just that.

Actaully, here's a reading based question for everyone...

When I praticing learning reading, I pratice in bass clef. I'm also running through my theory grades at the moment, so am looking at bass and treble clef.
It seems to me that as a bassist we really need to read BOTH clefs equally, since, if handed a chart the melody will be in treble and reading the melody will help us do the tune justice, and of course we need to read bass clef for all those written bass parts.

So, does anyone/ everyone pratice reading bass and treble clef? It just seems like a good idea to me? Any comments?

Actaully, here's a reading based question for everyone...

When I praticing learning reading, I pratice in bass clef. I'm also running through my theory grades at the moment, so am looking at bass and treble clef.
It seems to me that as a bassist we really need to read BOTH clefs equally, since, if handed a chart the melody will be in treble and reading the melody will help us do the tune justice, and of course we need to read bass clef for all those written bass parts.

So, does anyone/ everyone pratice reading bass and treble clef? It just seems like a good idea to me? Any comments?

I feel it's very important to read both.

I want to echo what bass349 said. Transcribing music is the greatest teacher of all.

I started to take lessons with an excellent local bassist about six months ago. After the second lesson he gave me four very large books and said "come back when you can read properly". I haven't gone back yet :rolleyes:

Thing is, I can read and write music, I just cant sight read anything beyond crochets at 80bpm :D (heh, not actually funny, just pathetic).

The biggest problems I have are a) finding time to pratice (with 9to5 job and 3 month old baby daughter, 4 bands and Saturday jazz class), and b) as soon as I hear something I stop reading it and play it by ear. To combat this I have to contually read new material, if I play through something twice I start to play from memery instead which kinda defeats the point!

And yeah, a real bummer of a story that is, but, still, good on for not taking the gig anyway and making a real stink of it. Lots of less cool people *ahem, guitarists* ;) would have done just that.

I'm really sorry to hear your experience with this "teacher". As a private teacher myself I can assure you that he did you no favors. It's that persons job to guide you, period. He failed. You should find a real teacher who can help you find the best way to achieve your goals, even with your busy life. It's a give and take relationship with a teacher. They should share their knowledge and help guide you and the student should push themselves to the best of their ability to reach their goals. I really hate hearing bad teacher stories.....

Oh, and congratulations on your new baby daughter! :hyper:

Howard, I don't know a professional bassist who reads music that can't read both treble clef and bass clef. Even most guitarists I work with can read both. But for a bassist, it's essential, because a good percentage of the music you get will be written in treble clef.

Naah, this isnt a bad teacher story, I didn't go into much detail.

Basically, I am perfectly capable of learning to read music to 'a better degree' on my own. I really just need to put in the hours.
If I got stuck or had any any questions, he would give another lesson, but his point was "dont spend £20 an hour to pratice reading you could do at home", and he's right. I dont need someone to sit with me while I practice.

I really must get into the habit of reading more :hmm:

Just to echo the many comments already posted here .....

Reading is, IMO, critical to your lifespan as a musician. It also can not be taken for granted, like every other skill it needs to be exercised on a regular basis.

My schooling left me well prepared for sight reading, however that was a long time ago and I find that I must keep my reading skills sharp and current, or they will fall apart as fast as your chops do when you haven't played in a few weeks.

As a paid profesional, you need to be a proficient reader. That includes bass and treble clefs, as well as tabs, chord charts, lyrics with changes noted on top (usually in the wrong places) and any other chicken scratch on the back of a napkin that gets tossed in your lap.

Learn to read and you'll quickly put some distance between yourself and the rest of your peers ....... :cool:

As a paid profesional, you need to be a proficient reader. That includes bass and treble clefs, as well as tabs, chord charts, lyrics with changes noted on top (usually in the wrong places) and any other chicken scratch on the back of a napkin that gets tossed in your lap.



I've seen everyone of these - except tab. Never gonna happen in a professional setting. Don't waste your time.

Actaully, here's a reading based question for everyone...

When I praticing learning reading, I pratice in bass clef. I'm also running through my theory grades at the moment, so am looking at bass and treble clef.
It seems to me that as a bassist we really need to read BOTH clefs equally, since, if handed a chart the melody will be in treble and reading the melody will help us do the tune justice, and of course we need to read bass clef for all those written bass parts.

So, does anyone/ everyone pratice reading bass and treble clef? It just seems like a good idea to me? Any comments?
I've been handed charts in Treble, Bass, And Tenor Clefs. I can sight read in those as well as alto. I think it's extremely important to be able to read all formats of music. The more marketable you can make yourself the better.

Being able to read N.N. charts is the most important one of all for me. I usually play at least 2 country shows a week. Having a good ear is the most important thing of all. Having good reading chops is a very close second.

I've seen everyone of these - except tab. Never gonna happen in a professional setting. Don't waste your time.

+1.

I've seen everyone of these - except tab. Never gonna happen in a professional setting. Don't waste your time.
I'm afraid I have to quote jazz guitarist Bobby Cairns

"Tab is musical HIV..." The rest of the quote would get me banned.

All right, fine. I'll learn to read. Actually, it should help me with rhythm studies. So you all say to learn both bass and trebble. Should I just start with bass? I can read the notes, but I start stumbling when we start talking about key signatures. Wait, is that B a Bb or really a B? heheh. so confusing for those not in the know.

The primary advantage to being able to read as a pro player is that it saves time. I work in a show town, and it's amazing how few players can read here. Really, only a handful.

I lined up a sub for me a few years back. OK player...had a decent feel, but he couldn't read worth squat. Result?

(this is important to grasp):

He had to memorize everything. We get a new act and he's got all kinds of specific parts to play? He had to take the charts home with a CD and spend DAYS memorizing everything. I couldn't use him as a sub. Once he knew the stuff, he was fine, but it simply took him too long to get it together. When we get a new act, you've got maybe an hour or 2 at the most the rehearse their stuff (including vocal cues and whatnot). We don't have time to waste on a guy that needs to memorize everything.

Harsh? Not at all. If you want be to taken seriously as a professional musician, take your profession seriously. Would you go to a mechanic that didn't really know all the engine parts, how they worked or what they were called, but had a "good feel" for cars? How about a plumber? Surgeon? Guy to paint your house?

It's like any other job; learn the skills needed or accept it as a hobby. Nothing wrong with that at all, but it's not the same thing...at all.

I'm definitely not pro material. I really stuggle with most things bass, so I have no problem calling it a hobby. Though, I am a perfectionist, and I want to continually improve. If that means learning to read music, then so be it. I have about a billion other things to work on, but I probably should devote a little time each day to this task.

I suppose I'll start with bass clef, and work through some stuff I could also learn by ear. That would probably work for me at this point... Hello motown book

+1 on Arbans, Melodious Etudes, Bach Cello Suites and Standing in the Shadows

I auditioned for my school jazz band three years in a row, and didn't make it once. The reason was because I couldn't sight-read the charts.
I wondered why I couln't take the music home and work on it. I thought my band director had something against electric instruments. Years later, I realized he was trying to drive home the point that if I wanted to do this for a living, I should know how to sight-read (I wish he would have come out and said it, rather than me "learning a lesson").

I spent several hours over this past weekend, charting out the songs of this new cover band I'm in, mostly so i could learn arrangements, I have something to hand a sub, and it was just good practice. Lots of funk and groove based stuff so lots of syncopation and tied rhythms. Then yesterday, I tackled some complicated RnB/funk sight-reading exercises in an old Bass Player mag and nailed them!

I've seen everyone of these - except tab. Never gonna happen in a professional setting. Don't waste your time.
In the past I would normally have agreed with you, but over the past 3 months or so I have been brought in to four (maybe 5, I'm not 100% sure) recording sessions with original writers doing their demo's .... and they hit me with a tab sheet. Luckily, because of some involvement with early-teen players in a volunteer thing I do, I have been exposed enough that I was able to quickly transpose .......

But I guess you're right, though. All of those situations could be classified as "non-professional" when compared to a real studio setting, in light of the non-professional nature of the writers themselves.

BTW, on a personal note, I really don't understand why anyone would waste their time with tabs when that same effort could be put towards actually learning to read music :rollno: It's a mystery to me ........

BTW, on a personal note, I really don't understand why anyone would waste their time with tabs when that same effort could be put towards actually learning to read music :rollno: It's a mystery to me ........

Because tab really requires no thought. Just hit this string at this fret. It's like learning paint by numbers, without learning the names of the colors.

Because tab really requires no thought. Just hit this string at this fret. It's like learning paint by numbers, without learning the names of the colors.

Exactly! Tab allows kids who own instruments to pretend that they are musicians, without all that pesky study that music requires.

Sibelius Booooo. Finale Yay!
Finale Allegro looks pretty good too.

I think all this talk about "professional musicians" and the necessity for reading skills needs to be tempered by realization that there are scads of "professional" musicians...i.e. guys in bands who make a living doing music--who can't read music. This goes for rock, pop, blues, etc. Many of them have pretty good understanding of music theory, but don't read because they don't need to. Obviously a professional session player, or orchestra musician needs to be able to read to make a living, because it's a job requirement. I'm not sure if Keith Richards can read standard notation, but even if he can't read a single note, he's still a professional musician.

I think all this talk about "professional musicians" and the necessity for reading skills needs to be tempered by realization that there are scads of "professional" musicians...i.e. guys in bands who make a living doing music--who can't read music. This goes for rock, pop, blues, etc. Many of them have pretty good understanding of music theory, but don't read because they don't need to. Obviously a professional session player, or orchestra musician needs to be able to read to make a living, because it's a job requirement. I'm not sure if Keith Richards can read standard notation, but even if he can't read a single note, he's still a professional musician.


Most guys making their living as professional musicians aren't rock stars that can play what they feel like. Great for Keith Richards, and the guys like him, but most pro musicians that I know, struggle endlessly to pay bills, picking up any gig they can get in between other gigs. Reading means you have MANY more potential gigs available.

But, if you have a path to rock star, by all means, don't let me stop you.

I'm not sure if Keith Richards can read standard notation, but even if he can't read a single note, he's still a professional musician.

Gads, you had to pick Keith Richards as an example? ;)

Sean Baumann said:
Because tab really requires no thought. Just hit this string at this fret. It's like learning paint by numbers, without learning the names of the colors

When you can truly read music, it is language and requires no conscious thought to translate the written note into physical action. Tab is an incomplete language at best.

I think all this talk about "professional musicians" and the necessity for reading skills needs to be tempered by realization that there are scads of "professional" musicians...i.e. guys in bands who make a living doing music--who can't read music. This goes for rock, pop, blues, etc. Many of them have pretty good understanding of music theory, but don't read because they don't need to. Obviously a professional session player, or orchestra musician needs to be able to read to make a living, because it's a job requirement. I'm not sure if Keith Richards can read standard notation, but even if he can't read a single note, he's still a professional musician.
You know, if your only interest is playing in a local rock band and you don't do anything that requires reading, you don't need it. For the first 15 years of my career that's what I did, and even though I could read music well enough, I never read a single sheet of music in that time. And I had the crappy gigs that paid just barely enough to eat and pay a bill or two while I worked straight jobs. Then I decided I was going to make a real career out of music, took lessons and got serious about reading. And for the last 10 years or so, I have done very few gigs where I wasn't reading music. And guess what? Those gigs pay a lot better! Plus I learned how to arrange and write charts, and I make money arranging and writing charts now in addition to playing.

So it's all about what you want out of music. If you want to be a rock star, that's more about having enough money to buy off programming consultants and radio stations than it is reading music. But for the rest of us who want to play music for a living and don't have millions to spend on it, music reading abilities is pretty much a basic requirement. Yes, you can make a living at playing music and not be able to read a note. But the people who do it are few and far between. For the rest of us, you gotta have the skills.

In the past I would normally have agreed with you, but over the past 3 months or so I have been brought in to four (maybe 5, I'm not 100% sure) recording sessions with original writers doing their demo's .... and they hit me with a tab sheet. Luckily, because of some involvement with early-teen players in a volunteer thing I do, I have been exposed enough that I was able to quickly transpose .......
I have heard about this from other people who have experience with younger musicians. They will sometimes write out tab for each other to get their musical ideas across. So I will say that if you're going to work with a band that only has guitarists as melody instruments, it might not be a bad idea to learn a little something about tab. But it's just not going to happen on any other type of gig. You hand a keyboard player guitar tab and he's going to blow his nose on it.

BTW, doesn't it make you sick that many of these guitar and bass magazines out there only have tab now? Geez, talk about dumbing down the masses!

I'm teaching myself to read at the moment - I downloaded Donna Lee and Chromatic Fantasy, and its understandably hard going. I used to play a bit of cello, so I have used bass clef before, but never learnt the bass fingerboard and never was a good sight reader.

Let me tell you, when you learn a piece like Donna Lee from sheet music, you really start to appriciate what a genius Jaco was! I have a whole new appriciation for it now.

Its getting a little easier, but I think I will buy the Bach Cello suites sheet music again, they were brilliant for learning to read on the cello - so melodic, they really helped when combined with scale studies. Hopefully they will help as much with bass too.

They will.

BTW, doesn't it make you sick that many of these guitar and bass magazines out there only have tab now? Geez, talk about dumbing down the masses!


On a related topic, I just read that Ed Friedland is leaving Bass Player magazine to work for Guitar World's Bass Guitar magazine! Talk about a waste of paper, that mag is one of the worst things to happen to music. I only hope that Ed is moving there to improve the quality, not just to cash a paycheck.

I dont know if this will help everyone here but. you know the blah blah blah for dummies books, theirs one on music theory and it kicks ass, also if you live in the states go to a local JC or community college and get into some basic theory classes. the one I am in has the same teacher I had in 5th grade, and has been and still is a prefessional procussionist. Really creapy but this guy knows his stuff. although the first stuff was kind of rententive (just basic rthyms I have learned alot from it and my band knows it because I am now going over most of my lines and changing them. but really for the price of lessons compared to a semesters of learned by a professional its priceless

On a related topic, I just read that Ed Friedland is leaving Bass Player magazine to work for Guitar World's Bass Guitar magazine! Talk about a waste of paper, that mag is one of the worst things to happen to music. I only hope that Ed is moving there to improve the quality, not just to cash a paycheck.
What?!? I can't believe this. The guy who transcribed Charlie Haden lines is going to go TAB out Switchfoot songs? Blasphemy!!! :scowl:

What?!? I can't believe this. The guy who transcribed Charlie Haden lines is going to go TAB out Switchfoot songs? Blasphemy!!! :scowl:
Yeah, they mention it on the editor's page of the current issue of BP (with paul mccartney on the cover)

Can someone point me to the version of the Bach Cello Suites that they have and can recommend? Thanks.

Can someone point me to the version of the Bach Cello Suites that they have and can recommend? Thanks.

I use Schirmer's Library of Musical Classics. Yellow cover. Copyright 1939. Still the best version out there. This version makes you think, and work, as it is written for cello and not traditional bass. It's titled Six suites for Violoncello solo, vol. 1565. Try it!

I've been working with a trombone book, Arban's Complete Method For the Trombone. Trombone music is more helpful than traditional "bass guitar" music, since it is more melodic and less dependant on repeating patterns. The key signatures are more challenging as well, as typical "guitar keys" (E A and G) are not as common as "horn keys" (Eb, Bb and F)

+1

When I studied with Jeff Berlin at his school, he had me reading trombone music.

I use Schirmer's Library of Musical Classics. Yellow cover. Copyright 1939. Still the best version out there. This version makes you think, and work, as it is written for cello and not traditional bass. It's titled Six suites for Violoncello solo, vol. 1565. Try it!

Ordered! Thanks!

If anyone else is interested than go here:

http://www.sheetmusicplus.com/a/item.html?id=34890&item=3145776

I learned to read(again) when going to college.
The Bach Suites did it for me.

If your playing in a covers band you dont need to know how to read...just learn the lines from the cd..HOWEVER if your goal is to be a session player it is IMPERATIVE that you learn to read...80% of my gigs are either sessions or shows where the rehersal time is basically the dress rehersal where you're given the score and thats it..I read music the same way I read a book and many times I've subbed for shows where I knew none of the tunes but was able to sight read the score..

My biggest stumbling block when I started out was reading rhythms, I could read the notes no problem but trying to get the timing (especially in some tunes where the time signature changes) was a real challenge..especially odd time sigs. a good book to help with this is

http://www.basslessons.com/oddmeter.html

oh yeah and I HATE TAB with a passion bordering on insanity.

Do you guys have any tips for improving your music reading ability, it would be greatly appreciated.

Does Bass music ever indicate in any fashion which strings you should use for the note? I am still trying to figure out the best way to play a piece of music. Many times I can read the music, but the tablature below the score actually helps me figure out the "easiest" way to play the note.

Said another way, if I could play the open a, or a fretted a, does written music in any way communicate to me how high or low the note should be or where on the fretboard I should play it?

Does Bass music ever indicate in any fashion which strings you should use for the note? I am still trying to figure out the best way to play a piece of music. Many times I can read the music, but the tablature below the score actually helps me figure out the "easiest" way to play the note.

Said another way, if I could play the open a, or a fretted a, does written music in any way communicate to me how high or low the note should be or where on the fretboard I should play it?
The music will tell you which octave to play a note in. It won't tell you where to play the note though. That's up to the player to decide. It's the same on the trombone. There are 5(+) places to play a high Bb. It's up to the player to decide which one makes the most sense.

Tab can be ok for positional play if it is written by someone who knows what they're talking about. Usually it isn't.

Does Bass music ever indicate in any fashion which strings you should use for the note? I am still trying to figure out the best way to play a piece of music. Many times I can read the music, but the tablature below the score actually helps me figure out the "easiest" way to play the note.

Said another way, if I could play the open a, or a fretted a, does written music in any way communicate to me how high or low the note should be or where on the fretboard I should play it?

The best thing you could possibly do for your reading is get rid of anything tab. It'll force you to use your brain to think about where the notes are on your fingerboard.

Does Bass music ever indicate in any fashion which strings you should use for the note? I am still trying to figure out the best way to play a piece of music. Many times I can read the music, but the tablature below the score actually helps me figure out the "easiest" way to play the note.

Said another way, if I could play the open a, or a fretted a, does written music in any way communicate to me how high or low the note should be or where on the fretboard I should play it?

Sure, notation *can* do that (e.g., by using circled numbers to indicate strings and unclircled numbers to indicate LH fingers), but it doesn't always.

Does Bass music ever indicate in any fashion which strings you should use for the note? I am still trying to figure out the best way to play a piece of music. Many times I can read the music, but the tablature below the score actually helps me figure out the "easiest" way to play the note.

Said another way, if I could play the open a, or a fretted a, does written music in any way communicate to me how high or low the note should be or where on the fretboard I should play it?

If you know your scales, then you'll be able to work out a logical fingering, since a major scale with closed fingering puts all the notes within easy reach of each other. And as MJazz stated, it's good for your brain to work out alternate fingerings for your notes. After a while, you'll know the correct fingering just by looking over a new piece of music.

In high school and college I got to be really proficient at sight reading bass lines. Most of the time I'd get chord charts which are a lot more fun but a good 40% was written bass parts. We'd try new charts everyday and after a couple of years reading was no sweat - automatic. Even the dynamic markings.

That was a thousand years ago - I miss really it. Now I struggle through books at home. Never needed to read for Top 40 and original bands so I lost the skill.

Looks like you and me better be gettin' us some trombone books Lyle!

My sight reading is the crap, haha. I know the notes on the lines and on my bass, I know plenty of theory to go with it, and I know scale patterns and all that nonsense, but when it gets down to it, I don't read music regularly enough to be at proficient. When I played trumpet I got to be a pretty decent sight reader, mostly because there was only one way to play most of the notes. With bass there are a lot more options and it is far more confusing for location choice and the like, at least to me. Brass is much more "linear" whereas strings are not due to overlapping octaves and whatnot. I am purely a hobbyist and play in a blues group that requires no reading whatsoever- no one ever gives me more than a chord chart, and I handle that fine. I enjoy playing, btu I don't ever intend to be a professional. My upright learnign is pushign me more int eh sight reading direction but I get lazy and ignore my sheets so often. bad 5string! bad!

Do you guys have any tips for improving your music reading ability, it would be greatly appreciated.
Bump.

Any help here from you seasoned reading pros? Pacman?
I know I need all the help I can get.

Bump.

Any help here from you seasoned reading pros? Pacman?
I know I need all the help I can get.

The only thing that I can say here is take it slow. It's not a contest and we all learn at different rates. Find one book to start with and start with 15 minutes, twice a day, that's it. Increase the time as you become more comfortable. Consistency is the only way to learn properly. Finding a good teacher is a big help as well. They can steer you in the right direction and keep you on task.

Bump.

Any help here from you seasoned reading pros? Pacman?
I know I need all the help I can get.

Reading is like a muscle, you must excercise it, in other words, read as much as you can. The more you read, the better you will get.

Reading is like a muscle, you must excercise it, in other words, read as much as you can. The more you read, the better you will get.

This is as true as it gets - read. alot. every day.

But I'll add this. Don't just 'sight read' daily - take time to learn the material you're reading. This cements in the patterns of notes, the bigger chunks of lines that help you read ahead. It will help you read faster and more accurately.

But really...

Read.

A lot.

Every day.


Do that, and I promise you'll get better.

Hey y'all. Thanks for the tip on the Back Cello Suites. Just got here. I'm looking forward to starting the 1st suite today.

But I'll add this. Don't just 'sight read' daily - take time to learn the material you're reading. This cements in the patterns of notes, the bigger chunks of lines that help you read ahead. It will help you read faster and more accurately.
I'm concerned that reading the same piece over and over will soon lead to memorization. At what point should I put a piece aside and switch to something else?

By the way, I'm using Band In A Box for improving my reading because it can create a brand new song with one button press. I'm at the beginning stages so I've told BIAB to generate bass lines with mostly half notes and an occasional quarter and eighth note run. I read and play the song 3 or 4 times and generate a new one. If I feel brave I go to the key of F or G.

I'm concerned that reading the same piece over and over will soon lead to memorization. At what point should I put a piece aside and switch to something else?


There is still a lot to be learned from 'memorizing' a piece. Even if you have it memorized, you can still read along with it and it will still help you reading. The key is to keep reading it even if it's memorized, because you might find a point that you memorized incorrectly, or, you might refine your fingerings, or you might see something you didn't see before.

I've found that, while there is some level of memorization that is going to happen no matter what. If you really are focusing on the reading, and less so on the end result of how it sounds, you're less likely to actually memorize it in a detrimental way.

There is still a lot to be learned from 'memorizing' a piece. Even if you have it memorized, you can still read along with it and it will still help you reading. The key is to keep reading it even if it's memorized, because you might find a point that you memorized incorrectly, or, you might refine your fingerings, or you might see something you didn't see before.

I've found that, while there is some level of memorization that is going to happen no matter what. If you really are focusing on the reading, and less so on the end result of how it sounds, you're less likely to actually memorize it in a detrimental way.

Well said!

Hey y'all. Thanks for the tip on the Back Cello Suites. Just got here. I'm looking forward to starting the 1st suite today.
No problem, I'm glad I could help. Take your time with them. Each line deals with repeated patterns, and you will find that the fingerings are somewhat challenging. You will use open notes as well. The trick is to use cello-like phrasing when you play these. If you don't play 5 string, there will be sections that have repeated notes you will have to play up an octave. I originally tackled these on four string, so it can be done. This music is beautiful, and I constantly come back to this book. Another Bach piece you might want to try on bass are the two part piano inventions.

I want to pick up the Arban's Trombone Method. Anything reccommended by Jeff Berlin is definitely worth checking out!

No problem, I'm glad I could help. Take your time with them. Each line deals with repeated patterns, and you will find that the fingerings are somewhat challenging. You will use open notes as well. The trick is to use cello-like phrasing when you play these. If you don't play 5 string, there will be sections that have repeated notes you will have to play up an octave. I originally tackled these on four string, so it can be done. This music is beautiful, and I constantly come back to this book. Another Bach piece you might want to try on bass are the two part piano inventions.

I want to pick up the Arban's Trombone Method. Anything reccommended by Jeff Berlin is definitely worth checking out!

I play six string so it's much easier.

I can see what you mean about using open strings. I almost never use open strings but there really isn't a choice with these pieces. I also noticed the tricky fingerings and interval jumps. Great stuff though.

Since you play 6, you might consider transposing everything up an octave. Then you're playing it at pitch, and it sounds much better. Check out John Patitucci's prelude to the suite in G. Fantastic stuff!

When you guys talk about charts, are you talking about the melody written out with chords above, or are you talking "nashville" charts? I have tons of exp with the former, none with the latter. In 10 years I've never had to read from a nashville chart, but I need to learn and get it to be second nature just in case.....

Well, looks like I went and killed it...... :crying: :hiding:

When you guys talk about charts, are you talking about the melody written out with chords above, or are you talking "nashville" charts? I have tons of exp with the former, none with the latter. In 10 years I've never had to read from a nashville chart, but I need to learn and get it to be second nature just in case.....
Yes!

I think we're talking about music with...
-Written Bass lines
-Number Charts
-Chord charts
-lead sheet

I recently got some book tokens (about £30 worth) so I think I'll get some of these. I want one with longevity, but I'm sure either will do (unless they're less than £30 together). Would you recommend the Bach or the trombone one, if you had to have one?

Also, do online retailers accept book tokens? I think the cashier has to sign them or something, so I doubt it, but none of the shops near me stock books like this.

I'm really encouraged by the progress that I've already had with the cello suites. Great book. It's something I can see myself working on for a good while. There is a ton of music in here. Beautifull pieces. The 1st suite is instantly recognizable. I'm pretty sure I have a recording of Bill Frisell playing this piece in the beginning of a tune with an electric trio live.

I'm really encouraged by the progress that I've already had with the cello suites. Great book. It's something I can see myself working on for a good while. There is a ton of music in here. Beautifull pieces. The 1st suite is instantly recognizable. I'm pretty sure I have a recording of Bill Frisell playing this piece in the beginning of a tune with an electric trio live.

I first learned these in 1988, then put them down for a while. You'll find that as you come back, you will make new distinctions and glean more from them as your overall musical knowledge increases, and, not to sound overly philosophical, your life experience increases. If the only thing that the Bach Cello suites does for you now is to get you to think a little differently about what you can do melodically with what is normally considered a support or "goove" instrument, then it will be time well spent for you. Improving your reading chops is just a plus here. Have fun!

I've just gotten to the end of the Mel Bay note reading for bass book, and am still far from comfortable sight reading anything but the easiest charts. I can figure most things out that are written in bass cleff with a little time, but I still have a long way to go with "sight reading."

Thanks to your guys' recommendations, I ordered the Bach Cello Suites. Just shipped today. I'm looking forward to getting rolling on it.

After talking to some other folks, I realized part of learning to read is picking up any music you see and just trying to sight read it, so I've been trying to sight read from random pages in the real books as well as other transcriptions I have.

What amazes me is how certain bass lines I consider very easy to play, drive me nuts when I see them written out. It's cool, though trying to sight read something I know how to play by ear, because it lets me know how much feel really does play a part in it all.

Wanderer - Also order "Standing in the Shadows of Motown". It has everything from basic to bizarre in it, and will absolutely improve your reading chops if you use it regularly.

The key to reading is to just do it - every day. If you get to a tricky rhythm, just tap it out until it flows, and then add the notes.

While Jeff Berlin is either loved or hated around here (I personally fall into the frormer category), he had one of the greatest quotes on this topic - "No reading, no music, know reading, know music". I think that pretty much sums it up.

Wanderer - Also order "Standing in the Shadows of Motown". It has everything from basic to bizarre in it, and will absolutely improve your reading chops if you use it regularly.

The key to reading is to just do it - every day. If you get to a tricky rhythm, just tap it out until it flows, and then add the notes.

While Jeff Berlin is either loved or hated around here (I personally fall into the frormer category), he had one of the greatest quotes on this topic - "No reading, no music, know reading, know music". I think that pretty much sums it up.

I own SSOM already, and that was one of the ones I was referring to with reading stuff I already know (I play some of those songs in bands). I was trying to read Bernadette today at lunch time. :eek: :crying: I'm a loooong way off from that one!!

Trying to read some of that Jamerson stuff at speed with all the really syncopated rhythms and unexpected note choices is maddening. But I can slowly see progress. I just have to keep forcing myself to do it every day for at least 15 minutes outside of my normal practice routine.

Standing in the Shadows of Motown huh? I'll have to get that one. I can see how the rhythms of those bass lines would be challenging to read.

I've just gotten to the end of the Mel Bay note reading for bass book, and am still far from comfortable sight reading anything but the easiest charts. I can figure most things out that are written in bass cleff with a little time, but I still have a long way to go with "sight reading."

Thanks to your guys' recommendations, I ordered the Bach Cello Suites. Just shipped today. I'm looking forward to getting rolling on it.

After talking to some other folks, I realized part of learning to read is picking up any music you see and just trying to sight read it, so I've been trying to sight read from random pages in the real books as well as other transcriptions I have.

What amazes me is how certain bass lines I consider very easy to play, drive me nuts when I see them written out. It's cool, though trying to sight read something I know how to play by ear, because it lets me know how much feel really does play a part in it all.

I think I remember someone saying this already but the best thing you can do for your reading is to transcribe. That way it's internalized from working out the notes and the rhythm.

I think I remember someone saying this already but the best thing you can do for your reading is to transcribe. That way it's internalized from working out the notes and the rhythm.
That's the best thing you can do for your reading, writing and your ear.

Ya, this thread has encouraged me to read every day now as well. I can read sufficiently but not at tempo. I remember I got a gig for a musical and I had to read. I came in their not knowing much but came out reading better then ever. The gig forced me to improve my skills drastically.
Thanks guys.

wow. Just got the Bach Cello Suites last night and have played around with the Prelude to Suite 1 a bit already. Definitely recognizable and a beautiful song. I understand the recommendation from all of you in a big way. I can see spending months on this book and barely scratching the surface, and after an hour of playing with it, I picked up another random Real book chart and it seemed easy.

Back to work!!

wow. Just got the Bach Cello Suites last night and have played around with the Prelude to Suite 1 a bit already. Definitely recognizable and a beautiful song. I understand the recommendation from all of you in a big way. I can see spending months on this book and barely scratching the surface, and after an hour of playing with it, I picked up another random Real book chart and it seemed easy.

Back to work!!

I'm right with you man! I've been working on the Prelude to Suite 1 as well as the Allemande (tough one) and I skipped ahead to the Menuet II. Very pretty piece.

I own SSOM already, and that was one of the ones I was referring to with reading stuff I already know (I play some of those songs in bands). I was trying to read Bernadette today at lunch time. :eek: :crying: I'm a loooong way off from that one!!

Trying to read some of that Jamerson stuff at speed with all the really syncopated rhythms and unexpected note choices is maddening. But I can slowly see progress. I just have to keep forcing myself to do it every day for at least 15 minutes outside of my normal practice routine.

A trick to remember when playing the Jamerson charts is that he started on upright, and one of his tried and true techniques was to rake the open string (no matter what the key) as a way to keep the groove going while making a position shift. If you study these charts (look at "Bernadette" - 4th measure of the 1st chorus, using an open D as a passing tone between Bb and Db) you'll see this all over the place. Also, Jamerson loved chromatic movement. Those two "light bulb" realizations made these charts much easier to digest for me.

OK. I just went out and bought Schirmer's Bach Cello Suite book. Luckily, the local sheet music store had it in stock.

Let me start by saying that I am a 40 year old bass newbie. I don't foresee myself ever going pro. I would, however, like to play in the church band someday. After reading this post, I realize that I could be alot better if I could learn to read. I know it won't be easy because I am a newb(less than a year) and I have many things to learn besides.

My other goal is to learn to transcribe music. With these two goals in mind (sight-reading and transcribing), what would the best course of action be besides just sitting down and doing it. I want to practice smarter. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

I think I remember someone saying this already but the best thing you can do for your reading is to transcribe. That way it's internalized from working out the notes and the rhythm.

Disagree totally. The best thing you can do for your ear is to transcribe. The best thing you can do for your reading is reading and preferably in a performance setting. Nothing hones your reading more than day in and day out session work.

How can you disagree with transcribing as a good way to learn how to read? It's a brilliant way to learn how to read. The more you write it, the more you internalize it, and the more you can apply it. Why do you think almost all college level music classes have you writing and transcribing a lot? I am testament to how well transcribing helps you with your reading. I can pretty much read fly poop now.

BTW, you're never going to get day in and day out session work unless you already know how to read well or know the studio owner well.

Well, I would disagree with Jimmy and agree with Phil. I think transcribing helps you with hearing and writing, not reading. When you transcribe, you're not reading, it's as simple as that. You're writing. There's no challenge in reading if you know what the notes are before you put them down. You already know what you wrote.

No, what helps you with reading IMHO is trying to deal with stuff *that you don't know*. IOW, what helps you to read is, well, reading somebody else's stuff, and doing it a lot. No mystery here.

Why do you think almost all college level music classes have you writing and transcribing a lot?

Easy. They do it to train your ear and improve your *writing* skills. Both admittedly valuable. What they do to improve your *reading* is different: they put music in front of you and make you sight read it.

Well, I would disagree with Jimmy and agree with Phil. I think transcribing helps you with hearing and writing, not reading. When you transcribe, you're not reading, it's as simple as that. You're writing. There's no challenge in reading if you know what the notes are before you put them down. You already know what you wrote.

No, what helps you with reading IMHO is trying to deal with stuff *that you don't know*. IOW, what helps you to read is, well, reading somebody else's stuff, and doing it a lot. No mystery here.

I agree too: I'm a very capable writer, but a lousy reader. Probably because I do a lot of transcribing/composing/arranging, but rarely read stuff other than chord charts (but I'm working on it!)

Depends on your definition of "transcribing. If you mean learning a song by ear, and memorizing it's pattern on the fingerboard, then, no, transcribing won't help your reading. But to me, transcribing is the act of transferring the information from a recording onto staff paper. This process, which forces you to learn the notes on the staff, and more importantly, how to express complex rhythmic phrasing, is indispensible to improving your reading. Once you've counted out a syncopated 16th note rhythm, and translated that to notation, you'll be able to easily decipher that rhythm the next time you run across it in your reading studies. This is the secret to sightreading: becoming familiar with as many intervals and rhythmic permutations as possible eliminates the element of surprise in your reading. Transcription doesn't replace reading practice, but it does enhance it.

Thank you Sean. You very eloquently stated the point I was trying to make, albeit not as eloquently as you.

Depends on your definition of "transcribing. If you mean learning a song by ear, and memorizing it's pattern on the fingerboard, then, no, transcribing won't help your reading. But to me, transcribing is the act of transferring the information from a recording onto staff paper. This process, which forces you to learn the notes on the staff, and more importantly, how to express complex rhythmic phrasing, is indispensible to improving your reading. Once you've counted out a syncopated 16th note rhythm, and translated that to notation, you'll be able to easily decipher that rhythm the next time you run across it in your reading studies. This is the secret to sightreading: becoming familiar with as many intervals and rhythmic permutations as possible eliminates the element of surprise in your reading. Transcription doesn't replace reading practice, but it does enhance it.

I still disagree. I think you have it backwards. Transcribing doesn't help you learn the notes, *because you can't transcribe something you don't know*. IOW, to be able to say, OK, I have to write four descending 16th notes here, D-C-B-A, you have to already know (1) what a sixteenth note is, (2) how it sounds and feels in relation to a quarter note pulse, (3) where D, C, B, and A are on the staff, and so forth. That is, you already know what that particular pattern of notes and rhythms looks like. You don't need to learn what it looks like for the next time you read it. What you need is to be able to *play* it correctly in real time when you see it next, and only practice and more practice with reading will help you do that with confidence.

The point is, what makes you a *good* reader, as opposed to someone who knows what the notes are, is to be able to read *in something like real time*. Transcribing doesn't help you that much with this either, because except perhaps in some music class exercises, it's not typically done in anything like real time. You stop and start, repeat things, and go back when you need to. It's just a different skill. The only real way to get much better at your reading IME is to read a lot.

Let's take an example...you listen to a complex rhythm you have to transcribe, you write it out, then you see in notation how that rhythm looks on paper. Since you wrote it out, you are probably going to remember that rhythm a lot better than if you just read it. And the next time you see that rhythm on a chart someone hands you, you'll say, "Hey, I remember transcribing that exact rhythm out a while back!" And you will play it just like you remember it!

Yes, reading lots of sheet music is the best practice for getting your sight-reading up to par, but transcribing is an invaluable tool for internalizing note values and rhythms to where you won't have to think about them when you see them.

Let's take an example...you listen to a complex rhythm you have to transcribe, you write it out, then you see in notation how that rhythm looks on paper. Since you wrote it out, you are probably going to remember that rhythm a lot better than if you just read it.

Not in my experience. IME it's more like this: unless I'd already seen it *and read it*, I wouldn't know how to begin to write it. I'd remember it much better if I'd read it; then if I'd heard that rhythm, I'd know how to write it. Whe I hear a familiar rhythm, I know how to write it out because I've read it before, and I can associate that sonic phenomenon with a visual representation.

How would you even know how to write complex rhythms if you didn't already know what such complex rhythms looked like? As an example, how would you know how to write the word "rhythm" if you hadn't already read it? You'd certainly never guess the correct spelling just by hearing it. You can't write what you don't know.

How can you disagree with transcribing as a good way to learn how to read? It's a brilliant way to learn how to read. The more you write it, the more you internalize it, and the more you can apply it. Why do you think almost all college level music classes have you writing and transcribing a lot? I am testament to how well transcribing helps you with your reading. I can pretty much read fly poop now.

I can easily disagree because the process you use to transcribe is vastly different from that that you need to sight read. A transcription is a tedious at times process of listening, re-listening, notating and then checking that your notation is correct rhythmically and harmonically. Sight reading is another ball game entirely as you have a single shot in real time of rendering what you see on paper into music that you've never seen or heard before.


BTW, you're never going to get day in and day out session work unless you already know how to read well or know the studio owner well.

Fine, the point is that if you're engaged in reading every day on a performance level your level of reading will drastically improve in a way that no amount of transcribing will.

Fine, the point is that if you're engaged in reading every day on a performance level your level of reading will drastically improve in a way that no amount of transcribing will.

I absolutely agree with this, as someone who's has done just that for the last almost 20 years. I can read the hell out of music, because that's what I've done almost every day for that long.

I'm kinda assuming that by "chord charts" you mean something like:

http://www.cyberfret.com/chords/primer/images/ch_primer_rd_chart.gif

I'm kinda assuming that by "chord charts" you mean something like:

http://www.cyberfret.com/chords/primer/images/ch_primer_rd_chart.gif
What is NO?

http://members.shaw.ca/bigdog/tb/untitled.jpg

oh....

I guess i'll have to work on that...