I'm still trying to get this string thing worked out. Right now I've got Helicore med. pizz on the E & A and Spirocore Weich on the D & G... Getting closer but not quite. Is there possibly a steel string (rope core) that has a thicker diameter for the D & G then say helicore or spirocore? I'm looking to approximate that gut like feel but with steel core strings. Francios, (who has been much help in this matter) suggested possibly trying Jargar, but after researching them further I just don't think I would be happy with the short sustain... So any other suggestions?

Thanks
Kevinlee

Kevin,

I'm not really sure what you are wanting, because gutlike=short sustain. If you like long sustain, stay with Spiros or Helicore pizz. Gut like would indicate composite core like Obligatos, Velvet 360's, Innovation (I think hb?), etc. My suggestion is to try one of these and see if you really mind the shorter sustain. I found I liked it when I started analyzing players sounds that I loved such as Rodney Whitaker, Mingus, Haden, and found that they all had shorter sustain, either through gut or composite gut. My .02

Monte

"The blues isn't about feeling better. It's about making other people feel
worse, and making a few bucks while you're at it."

Bleeding Gums Murphy

Monte

Thanks for the tip, I'm beginning to realize that to achieve what I'm after a compromise has to be made somewhere as to the kind of string I use and what I want out of it. At this point I was just curious if there were any steel core strings that were more gut like in size (diameter) not necessarily the sound. I just like the way the thicker strings feel. I would like to try the Obligatoes but I'm using a magnetic Pick-up so I have to stick with steel. I do have a K&K P.U. as well which I am seriously thinking of going back to. It has a warmer tone than the magnetic but at high volume it is not quite as precise sounding.

Kevinlee

Originally posted by Kevinlee
Monte

Thanks for the tip, I'm beginning to realize that to achieve what I'm after a compromise has to be made somewhere as to the kind of string I use and what I want out of it. At this point I was just curious if there were any steel core strings that were more gut like in size (diameter) not necessarily the sound. I just like the way the thicker strings feel. I would like to try the Obligatoes but I'm using a magnetic Pick-up so I have to stick with steel. I do have a K&K P.U. as well which I am seriously thinking of going back to. It has a warmer tone than the magnetic but at high volume it is not quite as precise sounding.

Kevinlee

Obligatos are steel over nylon, so I don't think there'd be a problem with a magnetic pickup.
As for the thicker steels, you can always look at heavy-gauge variants of known brands, like Helicores. But they're more difficult to play.
The LaBella 7710 black-nylon tape over steel rope-core have a very nice thick gauge and super soft feeling. However you may not like their tone. (they're played by Ron Carter and Buster Williams)
They don't work well with a bow either.

I use a mag pickup sometimes and have found that Obligatos don't work but Innovations do. Hope this helps.

Thanks, what's the tension like on the innovations? Do you happen to play any slap? I'm currently involved in two projects, one jazz and the other rockabilly and I'm trying to find a string that I can do both with. And also is there more than one type of innovations string and if so which ones are you referring to.

Kevinlee

Kevin,I play Irish folk,country and some rockabilly stuff.I use the Innovation RB set,which is a black wound string(sorry don`t know composition)This string is really easy to play and probably just thicker than Spirocores,they are supposedly made for rockabilly,however some people hate `em some love `em........I like `em.
I don`t know if they would work with a magnetic pickup,but it may be worthwhile checking their site.

There is also the LaBella 7710 black-nylon on steel rope-core.
Used by famous players like Ron Carter, Buster Williams and Mads Vinding.
They are thicker than regular steel strings (the physical feel is quite gut-like, as Kevin wants), but have a more steel-like sound.
If you like the contemporary sound of Ron Carter and Buster Williams, you may like them.
I don't know how they would react with a magnetic pickup though.

You can get them from Lemur Music. (http://www.lemur-music.com) 1-800-246-BASS

Hope this helps!

Hi Kevinlee,
Regarding the Innovations. They feel about the same tension as Spiro Weichs but it wouldn't suprise me if they actually have a little more tension. The g and d are thicker and feel a lot better. I use the solid core "jazz"model.
And the only slapping I do is to piano players.

Originally posted by Blaine
Hi Kevinlee,
Regarding the Innovations. They feel about the same tension as Spiro Weichs but it wouldn't suprise me if they actually have a little more tension. The g and d are thicker and feel a lot better. I use the solid core "jazz"model.
And the only slapping I do is to piano players.
Hi Blaine.
I'd like to ask about the durability of the Innovations.
Do they break easily?
Do they last long?
Any special recommendations?

Thanks in advance!

I find they last pretty long. I've never had one break. I've had my G on for a year and a half. I use the solid core on the g and d, the a and e get too dark on my bass so I use Spiros or D'addario hybrids on the bottom.

Thanks.
Is the metal wound part of the D and G strings reaching the pegs?
I know that Thomastik warns that this part of the string must not reach the peg at all, or the string will break very fast. (for Dominants)
I've experienced that breakage myself.
Any warning from Picato about this?

Thanks again!
François

I don't recall any warnings from picato about the windings. On my bass the bare string doesn't reach the peg.

Hello, what is the outer wrap of the innovation solid core? I now know they have a steel core but is the outside steel as well?

Thanks
Kevin

Originally posted by francois
Thanks.

Any warning from "Picato" about this?

Thanks again!
François

The developer of the Innocvation strings, Lionel Davis put 140B's on my bass at the ISB convention. He says that he is no longer associated with Picato. Here is his web page http://www.innovationstrings.com/

He was very particular about how he put the strings on the bass. He would wrap the string four times around the gear peg insuring that he did not wrap it over its self then he put the tag end through the hole and wound it to tension. They will make strings special order for those of you that have long string lengths. He also made sure that the bridge and nut grooves were wide enough for the thicker strings.

I have said it before but it's worth repeating, Innovations have a vastly improved tone/sound volume and focus both arco and pizz over Obligatos and Helicors. Their tension is similar Obligatos with a greater bowing response. Another thing that I have noticed is that rosin does not build up on the string like it did on the other strings.

David Kracz's teacher also had 140B's put on his bass at the ISB. I wonder how he likes them?

Mark

Originally posted by oldsaw
David Kacz's teacher also had 140B's put on his bass at the ISB. I wonder how he likes them?

He likened their sound to the Velvet Animas I have on my bass when he heard it last
week. But he had since put spirocores on that bass, as much as it pained him, on the suggestion of someone whose opinion he respects. It wasn't that he didn't like the strings, he didn't like them on that bass. In the year since he inherited it, the spiros are the fifth set he's tried on it.

Originally posted by Kevinlee
Hello, what is the outer wrap of the innovation solid core? I now know they have a steel core but is the outside steel as well?

The Innovations use a synthetic core (kind of nylon), not steel.
The outer wrap seems steel to me, and is flat, not round wire.
(got a braided core G today)

Originally posted by francois

The Innovations use a synthetic core (kind of nylon), not steel.
The outer wrap seems steel to me, and is flat, not round wire.
(got a braided core G today)

Did you get a 140B or 140H? I understand that they have a copolymer core. I don't know if it is braided or a core polymer covered by another polymer.

Mark

Originally posted by oldsaw


Did you get a 140B or 140H? I understand that they have a copolymer core. I don't know if it is braided or a core polymer covered by another polymer.

Mark
It's a 140B (braided core).
The 140H (Hybrid) is the solid core.
As far as I can tell for the moment, the tone is very strong, and the tension quite high.
The diameter of this G string is thicker than my Original FlatChrome D!

Francois,

Are you using it on an EUB? What other strings do you use?

Mark

Originally posted by oldsaw
Francois,

Are you using it on an EUB? What other strings do you use?

Mark
Yes!
The D is an Original FlatChrome
The A is a Permanent
The E is a FlatChrome

I know, I know. It's weird, but it's the best setup I've found yet, and believe me, I tried a *lot* of them.
However, the Innovation doesn't match very well.
Too strong and too nasal for me.
In fact I had about the same result with an Obligato G! (the Obligato had more sustain though)
I'll try a solo-tuning Original FlatChrome G next week.
Otherwise a solo-tuning Flexocor G will be used.

This question is for any one, but francois mentioned something about Ron earlier in this thread. Does any one know what type of strings Ron used when he was with miles in the 60s? Before he had the very trebly, electric sound that he has now. Did he use the same strings, but just play acousticly through a mic, or did he use totally different strings?

Originally posted by JAS
This question is for any one, but francois mentioned something about Ron earlier in this thread. Does any one know what type of strings Ron used when he was with miles in the 60s? Before he had the very trebly, electric sound that he has now. Did he use the same strings, but just play acousticly through a mic, or did he use totally different strings?
My guess is that he was playing gut strings.
Ron's tone on the duo album he did with Jim Hall (Alone Together) is also beautiful.
That time my guess is that he was using orchestral strings, like Flexocors or the like.

But these are guesses, so I may be wrong! :)

Originally posted by David Kaczorowski


He likened their sound to the Velvet Animas I have on my bass

now, i don't know too much about double bass, but i'm frightened by the concept of a velvet anima.


;)

Originally posted by john turner


now, i don't know too much about double bass, but i'm frightened by the concept of a velvet anima.


;)

Yes, that was a typo, I meant Velvet Enima. The bass has loosened up nicely.

Originally posted by David Kaczorowski


Yes, that was a typo, I meant Velvet Enima. The bass has loosened up nicely.

that's good - i've heard that's a problem with older basses.