I really just wanted to make the first thread in this forum, but here's a legitimate question for Todd:

On 4 string I always just rest my thumb on the E string, moving up to the pickup to play on the E. On my 6, though, I now am losing speed to reach over to the G and C strings. I occasionally move my anchor to the E string to play extended upper range parts, but I usually just stay anchored on the B. Do you move your thumb anchor up and down the strings? If so, to what extent to you move your anchor (eg, are you ever anchored higher (lower?) than the A string? If so, how do you avoid stumbling over yourself when you need to switch anchors (especially when descending)?

Would you recommend a different remedy?

Thanks

~Alex

I really just wanted to make the first thread in this forum, but here's a legitimate question for Todd:

On 4 string I always just rest my thumb on the E string, moving up to the pickup to play on the E. On my 6, though, I now am losing speed to reach over to the G and C strings. I occasionally move my anchor to the E string to play extended upper range parts, but I usually just stay anchored on the B. Do you move your thumb anchor up and down the strings? If so, to what extent to you move your anchor (eg, are you ever anchored higher (lower?) than the A string? If so, how do you avoid stumbling over yourself when you need to switch anchors (especially when descending)?

Would you recommend a different remedy?

Thanks

~Alex

Alex,

GREAT QUESTION!!

First of all I wouldn't ANCHOR at all.

I would HIGHLY recommend learning the floating thumb technique.

When you ancor your thumb on the E string......every time you play your G string, then your A string will begin to "ring" sympathetically.

The secret to the floating thumb is to drop your right forearm across the strings and pull it up with your right hand relaxed. Your fingers should be curved and your thumb should lay across the strings and will serve as your "perfectly desinged muting system". The trick now is to move the "mechanism". Make sense.

Plus, when you "anchor" you wind up having a different "range of motion" for every string you play. With the floating thumb, you just "move the Mechanism" so to speak....so you have a consistent range of motion for the string combinations you'll play. This means you'll have a lot less "muscle memory" to learn. Plus you'll eliminate your ringing string problem!!!

BTW, I cover all of this extensively on my new "Technique Builders" DVD....It'll be available from my website www.toddjohnsonmusic.com February 1st.

I hope this helps answer your question....even though it probably raised several more!!

Happy to help.

I've heard of this technique, and tried it a little, but it feels so weird to not have a string anchor. Maybe it is because I play harder than most? Is it something you just get used to?

...Your fingers should be curved and your thumb should lay across the strings and will serve as your "perfectly desinged muting system". The trick now is to move the "mechanism". Make sense....

Welcome to the forum Todd.

I wanted to get your input on a topic that had shown up earlier on the forum relating to ''curved" versus "straight" fingers. A well known bassist apparently is emphatic in his lessons to some of the TBers that "proper" technique has the fingers flat and stretched across the strings. Is there a situation in which this sort of technique would make sense? I know that it is not comfortable to flatten my fingers -- I like them curved -- and it also seems to give you less agility and reach than with curved fingers.

I've heard of this technique, and tried it a little, but it feels so weird to not have a string anchor. Maybe it is because I play harder than most? Is it something you just get used to?


Yes, you'll have to adjust to it.

Most bass players tend to play too hard with their right hand. They play just below the "splat" level. On a scale of 1 to 10, let's say the 10 is breaking a string, 9 is a blood blister and 8 is that "splat" sound. Make sense??

Well, most guys tend to play at about a 7, or just below the splat level. This means you can only get "1" louder before the sound gets "caustic" and 6 softer.

Common sense says to shoot for a 4 or a 5 level with the right hand........that way you have some headroom before your sound becomes caustic or disipates.

Remember that it's the electric bass "GUITAR"......not an amplified upright bass. We have state of the art pickups and zillion watt amps. WE DON'T NEED TO BEAT IT TO DEATH! :)

So........lighten your touch......turn up a little bit more and play lighter. This gives you headroom and the opportunity to "draw" a lot more sounds out of the instrument.

Add the floating thumb to eliminate any ringing strings and you're in excellent shape.

Again........I don't mean to sound like an infomercial, but this will be covered "in depth" on my new "Technique builders" DVD that'll be out Feb. 1st at my website www.toddjohnsonmusic.com . I would encourage you to consider picking it up. :cool:

I hope this helps..........and remember.....this is just my opinion.

Have fun!! :bassist:

Welcome to the forum Todd.

I wanted to get your input on a topic that had shown up earlier on the forum relating to ''curved" versus "straight" fingers. A well known bassist apparently is emphatic in his lessons to some of the TBers that "proper" technique has the fingers flat and stretched across the strings. Is there a situation in which this sort of technique would make sense? I know that it is not comfortable to flatten my fingers -- I like them curved -- and it also seems to give you less agility and reach than with curved fingers.


I'm DEFINITELY a proponent of "curved fingers". I assume that you're talking about the right hand?? Actually, curved fingers for both hands is really the way to go.

It makes a lot more sense ergonomically to play with the hands relaxed. If the hand is relaxed, then the fingers will be curved.

I don't mean to "criticize" someone elses teaching methods....especially when things can be taken out of context. So just to reply to your statement......curved is the way to go.

I hope this helps.

Play slow!!

A belated welcome Todd..great to have a player of your experience on board. As regards the "floating thumb" thing..I played like this for years (completely oblivious that the technique even had a name!!) and was told on numerous occasions that my right hand technique was "weird"..to the extent where I got very self concious about it and tried to force myself self to play "traditionally"..until the day I had to use a six stringer in a studio situation..guess what? my "weird" technique found a home that day.

Such a relief to see it validated..I was thinking to myself "this is too easy I must be doing something wrong".

(when I say "too easy" I dont mean 6 stringers are easy (god knows I have the pains and aches to back that up) I meant it was very easy for me to keep the speed and articulation of my right hand when switching from a 4 to a six because I was used to using a "floating thumb " technique...oh yeah and ..CURVED FINGERS all the way))

cheers

Murf

, curved fingers for both hands is really the way to go.

It makes a lot more sense ergonomically to play with the hands relaxed. If the hand is relaxed, then the fingers will be curved.

I don't mean to "criticize" someone elses teaching methods....especially when things can be taken out of context. So just to reply to your statement......curved is the way to go.


Yes, and thanks. It helps to be assured that you are making the correct choices.

A belated welcome Todd..great to have a player of your experience on board. As regards the "floating thumb" thing..I played like this for years (completely oblivious that the technique even had a name!!) and was told on numerous occasions that my right hand technique was "weird"..to the extent where I got very self concious about it and tried to force myself self to play "traditionally"..until the day I had to use a six stringer in a studio situation..guess what? my "weird" technique found a home that day.

Such a relief to see it validated..I was thinking to myself "this is too easy I must be doing something wrong".

(when I say "too easy" I dont mean 6 stringers are easy (god knows I have the pains and aches to back that up) I meant it was very easy for me to keep the speed and articulation of my right hand when switching from a 4 to a six because I was used to using a "floating thumb " technique...oh yeah and ..CURVED FINGERS all the way))

cheers

Murf

Murf,

You are TOTALLY on the right track. The floating thumb technique will work on 4, 5, 6, ......whatever kind of bass you want to play.

I love to expose people to this technique at clinics etc. It's really an eye opener for about 90% of the folks I run into. I was really blessed to have studied with Gary Willis and learn logical, ergonomic and frankly intelligent bass technique. ( I wish I was as good at it as Gary is, but I digress...)

At the risk of sounding like a broken record.....I would encourage anyone that's interested to check out my new "Technique Builders" DVD when it comes out Feb.1st. You'll learn "the best of" all the different techniques I've run across as a BIT instructor, clinician and performer. If you REALLY want to clean up your playing then I highly recommend you check it out.

Glad I could help "confirm" what you already knew!! Way to go Murf!! :hyper:

Yes, and thanks. It helps to be assured that you are making the correct choices.

Confidence in what you're doing can make all the difference in the world!

Keep up the good work!

Hi Todd,

Before you settled on your current thumb muting method, did you ever use or consider using a method more like John Pattitucci's, which as far as I can tell does float the thumb somewhat, but also uses the ring and little finger to mute, with one of the results being that the main plucking fingers are more perpendicular to the strings (the complete thumb across the strings method seems to make the other fingers point more towards the bridge)? It seems to me that one advantage of this (Pattitucci) system would be to have the thumb in a more ready-to-play position if you should want to use it, while perhaps your method results in overall more complete muting, and less complicated hand motion.

Also, do you ever use fingernails when you play?

Thanks

Mark

I don't really have muting problems at all. i just lose speed in stretching. I also really think that I play with a hardness of usually about 5 or 6 (on your scale) When I play without an anchor, I can't even really pluck a string reliably, or with any reasonable volume.

Simply adjustment needed? Are there any other options outside of floating thumb?

Thanks

Alex

Hi Todd,

Before you settled on your current thumb muting method, did you ever use or consider using a method more like John Pattitucci's, which as far as I can tell does float the thumb somewhat, but also uses the ring and little finger to mute, with one of the results being that the main plucking fingers are more perpendicular to the strings (the complete thumb across the strings method seems to make the other fingers point more towards the bridge)? It seems to me that one advantage of this (Pattitucci) system would be to have the thumb in a more ready-to-play position if you should want to use it, while perhaps your method results in overall more complete muting, and less complicated hand motion.

Also, do you ever use fingernails when you play?

Thanks

Mark

Hi Mark,

Great question.

I've definitely checked out Pattitucci's technique,....and he's achieved TREMENDOUS results with it ....BUT......

it's not a "relaxed, natural" position for me. If my (right) hand is relaxed, my thumb lays straight down......not to the side. My ring and pinky fingers want to naturally "curve" so to speak,....not tuck back under.... PLUS.....when you're playing up on the C string etc., you have to completely change the angle of your index and middle fingers.....or, you move the whole thing and your B string is ringing.

Please don't misunderstand me.....JP makes the technique work for him....for sure....He's absolutely one of my favorite players and a big influence......but that technique is/was REALLY uncomfortable for me.

If this is working for you, then I applaud your efforts and integrity.....you obviously are headed in the right direction.

I don't thumb slap on the 6 string.....or on anything else for that matter...HA! :D , so having the thumb in the "ready to play" position doesn't apply......Also, I enjoy and respect the "slappers" out there.....it's just not what I do! :)

The big goal is: eliminate ringing strings, get the instrument under control and try to keep the motion of the right hand as consistent as possible......avoid learning un-needed ranges of motion and muscle memory. I hope this makes sense.

I could show you this in person in 2 minutes.....or on my "Technique Builders" DVD.......;)

Oh yeah,.............I keep my fingernails gnawed off to nothing, so I couldn't use them if I wanted to! :D Although I've heard other bass players use them. Steve Lawson does some AMAZING things......of course his nails are painted blue too.....maybe that's what I need.....HA!

I hope this helped......

Enjoy.......

I don't really have muting problems at all. i just lose speed in stretching. I also really think that I play with a hardness of usually about 5 or 6 (on your scale) When I play without an anchor, I can't even really pluck a string reliably, or with any reasonable volume.

Simply adjustment needed? Are there any other options outside of floating thumb?

Thanks

Alex

Hi Alex,

You know what.......I bet I could help you address this in about 5 minutes......BUT.....I'd have to do it in person....and, I don't want to trivialize your question by saying only "adjustment needed". I feel your pain !!!....believe me!

I see from your profile that you live in the Chicago area. I'm going to be in Chicago March 31 - April 1 doing a big Christian Guitar and Bass Conference. Norm Stockton and I will be the featured bass instructors. Here's the info:

03/3-4/06 Fri - Sat
All Day
Christian Guitar & Bass Conference
Journey of Faith Church
1243 Artesia Blvd.
Manhattan Beach, CA
www.heartfeltmusic.org

The fee is around the $150 range.....check www.heartfeltmusic.org for the exact/complete details.

Anyway......I'm going to be teaching this technique and others in Chicago.....actually, you could come take 6 one-hour masterclasses with me or Norm (or a combination of both) and get a TON of information for around $150. That's a great deal.......food for thought.

If you can't wait until March, .....either check out my DVD the first of February......OR.......check out a great teacher in your area named Scott Pazera. I think his website is www.scottpazera.com . He's a great player and teacher and could get you up and running in short order. Be sure to tell him I sent you. (hopefully he won't charge you double! :D )

I hope this helps. Let me know if I can be of further assistance.

Cool!

Play slow!

Hi Alex,

You know what.......I bet I could help you address this in about 5 minutes......BUT.....I'd have to do it in person....and, I don't want to trivialize your question by saying only "adjustment needed". I feel your pain !!!....believe me!

I see from your profile that you live in the Chicago area. I'm going to be in Chicago March 31 - April 1 doing a big Christian Guitar and Bass Conference. Norm Stockton and I will be the featured bass instructors. Here's the info:

03/3-4/06 Fri - Sat
All Day
Christian Guitar & Bass Conference
Journey of Faith Church
1243 Artesia Blvd.
Manhattan Beach, CA
www.heartfeltmusic.org

The fee is around the $150 range.....check www.heartfeltmusic.org for the exact/complete details.

Anyway......I'm going to be teaching this technique and others in Chicago.....actually, you could come take 6 one-hour masterclasses with me or Norm (or a combination of both) and get a TON of information for around $150. That's a great deal.......food for thought.

If you can't wait until March, .....either check out my DVD the first of February......OR.......check out a great teacher in your area named Scott Pazera. I think his website is www.scottpazera.com . He's a great player and teacher and could get you up and running in short order. Be sure to tell him I sent you. (hopefully he won't charge you double! :D )

I hope this helps. Let me know if I can be of further assistance.

Cool!

Play slow!Thanks, I'll look into those things.

is there anyway anyone could post a picture of this? I'm having a little gettign a visual in my head based on the description.

is there anyway anyone could post a picture of this? I'm having a little gettign a visual in my head based on the description.TB makes me feel so out if it because I don't have a digital camera:crying:

is there anyway anyone could post a picture of this? I'm having a little gettign a visual in my head based on the description.


Actually, David Grossman has a picture of me playing at last years BassQuake event. I'm using the floating thumb technique.

Go to the "Welcome Todd Johnson" thread, page 3. I think it's the only photo up so far.

I hope this helps.

I read through some of this post last night and just sat down to try out this technique. I had never heard nor noticed anyone using it before... though then again, I don't really pay too much attention to how most people play.

Suprisingly, it felt pretty natural to me without having to be too conscious of it. My playing has been much cleaner as of late since I've been working quite a bit on technique for a while (with my thumb anchored), but I can see how this would be much cleaner and easier witout sacrificing speed. I'll see if I can stick with it.

Thanks for the tip!
---
Chris

I read through some of this post last night and just sat down to try out this technique. I had never heard nor noticed anyone using it before... though then again, I don't really pay too much attention to how most people play.

Suprisingly, it felt pretty natural to me without having to be too conscious of it. My playing has been much cleaner as of late since I've been working quite a bit on technique for a while (with my thumb anchored), but I can see how this would be much cleaner and easier witout sacrificing speed. I'll see if I can stick with it.

Thanks for the tip!
---
Chris

Way to go Chris!! Very cool.........Keep up the good work!

Let me know if you should have any other questions or comments.

Hi Mark,

Great question.

I've definitely checked out Pattitucci's technique,....and he's achieved TREMENDOUS results with it ....BUT......

it's not a "relaxed, natural" position for me. If my (right) hand is relaxed, my thumb lays straight down......not to the side. My ring and pinky fingers want to naturally "curve" so to speak,....not tuck back under.... PLUS.....when you're playing up on the C string etc., you have to completely change the angle of your index and middle fingers.....or, you move the whole thing and your B string is ringing.

Please don't misunderstand me.....JP makes the technique work for him....for sure....He's absolutely one of my favorite players and a big influence......but that technique is/was REALLY uncomfortable for me.

If this is working for you, then I applaud your efforts and integrity.....you obviously are headed in the right direction.

I don't thumb slap on the 6 string.....or on anything else for that matter...HA! :D , so having the thumb in the "ready to play" position doesn't apply......Also, I enjoy and respect the "slappers" out there.....it's just not what I do! :)

The big goal is: eliminate ringing strings, get the instrument under control and try to keep the motion of the right hand as consistent as possible......avoid learning un-needed ranges of motion and muscle memory. I hope this makes sense.

I could show you this in person in 2 minutes.....or on my "Technique Builders" DVD.......;)

Oh yeah,.............I keep my fingernails gnawed off to nothing, so I couldn't use them if I wanted to! :D Although I've heard other bass players use them. Steve Lawson does some AMAZING things......of course his nails are painted blue too.....maybe that's what I need.....HA!

I hope this helped......

Enjoy.......

just because you don't slap doesn't mean that you can't use your thumb. i for one use the floating thumb techneque and i use my thumb for quick double stops, in fact i find it uncomfortable to use two fingers for double stops as it feels unnatural.

lowsound

Todd

I just wanted to thank you for this wonderful advice. I've been playing on and off (mostly on) for 25+ years and have always struggled with my right-hand technique. Mostly I would anchor my thumb on the pickup or E string. When I switched to a 5 string, I found myself having to move my between the pickup, B and E string, which worked but took effort. Add to this my rigid fingers and oddly bent wrist, and I was anything but relaxed.

I've tried other methods of modifying my right-hand technique, but none felt natural 'til now. After reading this thread yesterday morning, I didn't think it would work for me because I've been anchoring my thumb for so long. But I picked up my bass and gave it a try, and I must say it was really quite easy. It will take a little bit of work on my part to feel completely comfortable with it and to learn the new muscle movements, but I am really impressed with the changes so far.

An added advantage to this is that I can now look at basses with odd pickup configurations (or no pickups under the strings, such as acoustic basses) and no longer wonder where I would anchor my thumb.

I can't wait to see what other gems you have on your DVD.

Thanx
-tom howard


<snip>

First of all I wouldn't ANCHOR at all.

I would HIGHLY recommend learning the floating thumb technique.

<snip>

just because you don't slap doesn't mean that you can't use your thumb. i for one use the floating thumb techneque and i use my thumb for quick double stops, in fact i find it uncomfortable to use two fingers for double stops as it feels unnatural.

lowsound

Dear Lowsound,

Hey, good point!!!....."just because I don't slap doesn't mean that you can't or shouldn't use your thumb."

You are absolutely right!!!!..... thanks for pointing that out!!

(hey, glad to hear you use the floating thumb technique!!)

But, sometimes I use my thumb to play bass lines.

....I somtimes use my thumb and an index finger to play chords (like you!).

...I sometimes use my thumb, index and middle finger to play a 3-note chord.

....I sometimes use my thumb to play a bass line and play a 2 or 3 note chord with a combination of my index, middle and ring fingers....at the same time!!

Hey, God gave us all these fingers and a thumb....just trying to figure out how to use them is the fun part! :hyper:

Keep up the good work!!!

Todd

I just wanted to thank you for this wonderful advice. I've been playing on and off (mostly on) for 25+ years and have always struggled with my right-hand technique. Mostly I would anchor my thumb on the pickup or E string. When I switched to a 5 string, I found myself having to move my between the pickup, B and E string, which worked but took effort. Add to this my rigid fingers and oddly bent wrist, and I was anything but relaxed.

I've tried other methods of modifying my right-hand technique, but none felt natural 'til now. After reading this thread yesterday morning, I didn't think it would work for me because I've been anchoring my thumb for so long. But I picked up my bass and gave it a try, and I must say it was really quite easy. It will take a little bit of work on my part to feel completely comfortable with it and to learn the new muscle movements, but I am really impressed with the changes so far.

An added advantage to this is that I can now look at basses with odd pickup configurations (or no pickups under the strings, such as acoustic basses) and no longer wonder where I would anchor my thumb.

I can't wait to see what other gems you have on your DVD.

Thanx
-tom howard

Dear Tom,

Hey, glad to hear that the advice was helpful to you!!

I appreciate you opening your mind to new techniques and methods. Way to go!!

I should also mention that my new "Technique Builders" DVD is scheduled to arrive tomorrow (Thursday Feb. 26th) sometime.

I should be able to accept orders, starting tomorrow morning if all goes well and my webmaster get's my website updated. I've forwarded all the information to him, so it should be ready to go in the morning. Yeah!!:hyper:

I'll be sure to start a new thread, letting everyone know that it's available.

This DVD will be right up your alley Tom. I've got a TON of great information that'll really help you get this stuff together in short order!

Keep up the good work!!

Todd,
I PLay a 5string and have always moved my thumb anchor from string to string and have wondered if the floating thumb style would be an improvement so i have been practicing it this week.

I noticed that when I lay my thumb across the strings I have to use my right hand differently (as far as the part of my finger I can pluck the string with) When anchoring my thumb, my hand stands away from the bass and I pluck with the pad part of my finger. When using the floating thumb style it seems like I am using the tip of my finger almost like finger-picking an acoustic guitar (is it alright to say "guitar" here? you can edit it if not!).

I also noticed that if i am moving back and forth on a lot of octaves or moving across and back from higher to lower strings I end up trying to pluck a string my thumb is muting. Am I missing something other than practice?

I will say that I see real potential with this technique as well as adding some neat muting/damping/harmonic effects. I also would like to add that my hand stays very relaxed .

Any insight?

Hey Tod,

I just wanted to compliment your advice in these threads. I have played for over thirty years and whenever I see these anchor questions I have to chuckle a bit. Not that I don't understand that folks are trying, admirably, to be the best players they can be but more that in brings back memories.

Your advice to not anchor is absolutely correct and if I might add any habit that you develop that does not lead to a level of full flexibility and mobility is a virtual dead end for most players.

As far as slapping, well I have managed to incorporate mulitiple approaches to that and as I have been "floating" my thumb for twenty plus years, have found that I am actually much better at changing my approach in mid-stream, facilitating the ability to use multiple attack styles all the time. Going back and forth between working the thumb and three fingers in the clasical sense to hammering with the side of my thumb against the neck to the more common through the string slap (including double thumb) back to a more straight foward fingerstyle.

Once you are adept at the floating thumb these things happen almost naturally and it frees you to simply play what makes sense when it makes sense.

I have enjoyed the posts from you I have seen thus far and I am sure that you are an excellent teacher. Kudos.

Just one addition to my last post...and promise you won't shoot me...I have also gotten to the point where I only use the thumb on my left hand behind the neck occasionally. I have found that I no longer need that support and it has free me to be more expressive at times and occasionally gives me an extra fretting finger.

Learning to drop it was the result of a bout with joint pain in my left thumb that forced me to give it a rest but still play. Talk about a subject that might upset a few technique purrists. Oh well I guess us old men should get a pass on that one.

The secret to the floating thumb is to drop your right forearm across the strings and pull it up with your right hand relaxed. Your fingers should be curved and your thumb should lay across the strings and will serve as your "perfectly desinged muting system". The trick now is to move the "mechanism". Make sense.



Todd,

I tried the floating thumb this morning - I'm a total beginner so I thought now is a good time to experiment since I don't have to unlearn anything. So far I like it but I have a question: where does the thumb float to when you play the E string (I've got a fretted 4 string)? I tried to put it on the top of the neck pickup as in the traditional technique but that requires awkward motion when changing to the other strings. I prefer just using my elbow for support but I don't know if that will get me into trouble later.

I also noticed that the fingers move more in between the two pickups (G&L L2000) instead of over the neck pick, which is where I have been playing - is that normal?

I'll take a look at your DVD but I'd be grateful for a hint what to do for now.

Thanks,
Andrew Queisser

Todd,

I tried the floating thumb this morning - I'm a total beginner so I thought now is a good time to experiment since I don't have to unlearn anything. So far I like it but I have a question: where does the thumb float to when you play the E string (I've got a fretted 4 string)? I tried to put it on the top of the neck pickup as in the traditional technique but that requires awkward motion when changing to the other strings. I prefer just using my elbow for support but I don't know if that will get me into trouble later.

I also noticed that the fingers move more in between the two pickups (G&L L2000) instead of over the neck pick, which is where I have been playing - is that normal?

I'll take a look at your DVD but I'd be grateful for a hint what to do for now.

Thanks,
Andrew Queisser

Hi Andrew,

Sorry I'm so slow in getting back to you. I've been "swamped" trying to get orders out since my new dvd came out last Thursday.

Anyway....

The thumb has to "just clear the E string" when you're playing it.....it's a little awkward at first, but you'll get it. It's important to pivot from the shoulder.....don't drop the elbow (although keep it in contact with the body of the bass)...then.... move the mechanism.

You should be able to move your fingers most anywhere you want. Remember, you can get such a wide variety of sound depending on where you place the right hand. Food for thought.

The DVD should answer all this in GREAT detail.

Let me know if you should have further questions.

I'm here to help.

Todd,
I PLay a 5string and have always moved my thumb anchor from string to string and have wondered if the floating thumb style would be an improvement so i have been practicing it this week.

I noticed that when I lay my thumb across the strings I have to use my right hand differently (as far as the part of my finger I can pluck the string with) When anchoring my thumb, my hand stands away from the bass and I pluck with the pad part of my finger. When using the floating thumb style it seems like I am using the tip of my finger almost like finger-picking an acoustic guitar (is it alright to say "guitar" here? you can edit it if not!).

I also noticed that if i am moving back and forth on a lot of octaves or moving across and back from higher to lower strings I end up trying to pluck a string my thumb is muting. Am I missing something other than practice?

I will say that I see real potential with this technique as well as adding some neat muting/damping/harmonic effects. I also would like to add that my hand stays very relaxed .

Any insight?

Badgrandad,

Hey, sounds like you're on the right track....you actually have it surrounded.

I hate to say this.....and I don't mean to "duck" your questions.....at all,.... but I would like to recommend my new "technique builders" DVD. It REALLY explains and demonstrates all of this in GREAT detail. I don't want you to be "close", yet still miss it.

I'm happy to "try" and answer your questions, but it's hard to type an answer that would be as good as what I demonstrate on the DVD. I feel trapped between a rock and a "hard to explain" place. (Thelonius Monk once said, "talking about music is like dancing about architecture".)

Forgive me.....let's try this....send me a personal email off list and I'll send you my phone number and you can call me.....or you can send me yours and I'll call you.....then I'll do my best to talk you through the process.

Sound fair enough??:eyebrow:

I look forward to hearing from you soon.

Just one addition to my last post...and promise you won't shoot me...I have also gotten to the point where I only use the thumb on my left hand behind the neck occasionally. I have found that I no longer need that support and it has free me to be more expressive at times and occasionally gives me an extra fretting finger.

Learning to drop it was the result of a bout with joint pain in my left thumb that forced me to give it a rest but still play. Talk about a subject that might upset a few technique purrists. Oh well I guess us old men should get a pass on that one.


Spindizzy,

Hey, first of all thank you for your kind and thoughtful words. It's appreciated. I honestly try to answer everything I can to the best of my ability.

Hey, sounds like you've got it surrounded. It sounds like you've established good habits.....learned the rules ....so to speak....so now you can break them. Makes sense. Good for you. :cool:

But I'm sure you'd agree with me that the beginning students need to learn the fundamentals "first".....establish good habits.....THEN......adjust to fit their needs.

Keep up the good work.

Spindizzy,

Hey, first of all thank you for your kind and thoughtful words. It's appreciated. I honestly try to answer everything I can to the best of my ability.

Hey, sounds like you've got it surrounded. It sounds like you've established good habits.....learned the rules ....so to speak....so now you can break them. Makes sense. Good for you. :cool:

But I'm sure you'd agree with me that the beginning students need to learn the fundamentals "first".....establish good habits.....THEN......adjust to fit their needs.

Keep up the good work.

Todd,

I absolutely agree. This was a technique who's mother was necessity and I would never suggest that it is so important that everyone ought to go out and explore it. I can do it now only after more years than I care to count of playing and practicing. I simply thought it was an interesting slant on the floating thumb and how over time and with lots of experimentation seemingly new techniques continuously challenge and evolve our art.

However my advice, to those who listen, is learn right, strengthen the basics, experiment and expand, revisit the basics and allow your instrument to evolve you as much as you evolve it.

Blessings my friend,

Mark

Todd,

I absolutely agree. This was a technique who's mother was necessity and I would never suggest that it is so important that everyone ought to go out and explore it. I can do it now only after more years than I care to count of playing and practicing. I simply thought it was an interesting slant on the floating thumb and how over time and with lots of experimentation seemingly new techniques continuously challenge and evolve our art.

However my advice, to those who listen, is learn right, strengthen the basics, experiment and expand, revisit the basics and allow your instrument to evolve you as much as you evolve it.

Blessings my friend,

Mark

Mark,

Well said..........Thanks so much for your positive, insightful input.

God bless,

Well let me say I am honored to be given a recommendation by Todd. He is a great friend and gifted talent. I am excited to know Todd is coming out to the Midwest. I was hoping to hook up after NAMM Todd but was informed you had been sick. I hope you are feeling better now and I am also excited to learn about your DVD. Not enough time to do it all. Somehow you are doing it. God Bless.

I am getting that sucker as soon as my finances get a bit better. My technique sucks.

Yes, you'll have to adjust to it.

Most bass players tend to play too hard with their right hand. They play just below the "splat" level. On a scale of 1 to 10, let's say the 10 is breaking a string, 9 is a blood blister and 8 is that "splat" sound. Make sense??

Well, most guys tend to play at about a 7, or just below the splat level. This means you can only get "1" louder before the sound gets "caustic" and 6 softer.

Common sense says to shoot for a 4 or a 5 level with the right hand........that way you have some headroom before your sound becomes caustic or disipates.

Remember that it's the electric bass "GUITAR"......not an amplified upright bass. We have state of the art pickups and zillion watt amps. WE DON'T NEED TO BEAT IT TO DEATH! :)

So........lighten your touch......turn up a little bit more and play lighter. This gives you headroom and the opportunity to "draw" a lot more sounds out of the instrument.

Add the floating thumb to eliminate any ringing strings and you're in excellent shape.

Again........I don't mean to sound like an infomercial, but this will be covered "in depth" on my new "Technique builders" DVD that'll be out Feb. 1st at my website www.toddjohnsonmusic.com . I would encourage you to consider picking it up. :cool:

I hope this helps..........and remember.....this is just my opinion.

Have fun!! :bassist:

Well let me say I am honored to be given a recommendation by Todd. He is a great friend and gifted talent. I am excited to know Todd is coming out to the Midwest. I was hoping to hook up after NAMM Todd but was informed you had been sick. I hope you are feeling better now and I am also excited to learn about your DVD. Not enough time to do it all. Somehow you are doing it. God Bless.

Scott,

You're my hero!!:hyper: I'm hoping maybe you and I can hook up while I'm in the area. I need to steal a few licks from you.:D

Let's talk soon and see if we can make something happen.

I'm also going to be in Indianapolis.....

Talk to you soon,

I am getting that sucker as soon as my finances get a bit better. My technique sucks.


Cool....:cool:

Just let me know when you're ready and we'll hook you up.

Play slow!

Todd,

Thanks for the reply (albeit understandibly not an answer!). I have decided to get your Technique Builders DVD first and THEN ask for your personal response if still necessary.

I really appreciate the offer for the personal response and am sending you a PM.:cool:

When I was at Berklee (1972) I had a teacher named Rich Appleman who I think is still there and he had a P bass that he put a hole in the size of his thumb to "anchor" it on that bass. He showed me that I could do the same on my jazz bass by resting my thumb on the left end of the pickup which i still do today without carving a hole in my bass

Todd,

Thanks for the reply (albeit understandibly not an answer!). I have decided to get your Technique Builders DVD first and THEN ask for your personal response if still necessary.

I really appreciate the offer for the personal response and am sending you a PM.:cool:


Got it...thanks badgrandad!!!

When I was at Berklee (1972) I had a teacher named Rich Appleman who I think is still there and he had a P bass that he put a hole in the size of his thumb to "anchor" it on that bass. He showed me that I could do the same on my jazz bass by resting my thumb on the left end of the pickup which i still do today without carving a hole in my bass


elmohoof,

Good for you....Rich Appleman is a great player and teacher. You're blessed to have been able to study with him. I've always heard great things about Rich. Cool. :cool:

If anchoring works for you then terrific.......but....respectuflly...I think that there's a better way. Just my opinion.

I really wish I could demonstrate this for you in person.....I demonstrate it in GREAT detail on my "technique" dvd, but I don't expect you to drop $40 bucks just to "see" my side of the conversation.

This is the only frustrating part about hosting the forum.....It's far easier to show you something....than to type about it. I'm sure you feel my pain.

The problem with anchoring is that you'll have a ringing "A" string whenever you play on the "G" string.....unless you use your 3rd and 4th fingers of your right hand to "plug the holes".

.....it also puts your wrist in an "awkward" position.....it's carpal tunnel syndrome waiting to happen.

Plus,.....anchoring makes you have a "different range of motion" for every string combination. Not impossible to learn ....at all....just not as efficient as "moving the mechanism" with the floating thumb technique.....

Remember......this is just my opinion....that's all.....and I don't mean to discredit you at all....that's not my intent. Thanks for your patience and understanding.:)

I'm going to look into having a friend of mine take some of the floating thumb info off my dvd and make it into a couple of quick time movies, so I can post it and you (and everyone else!) can see/hear what I'm talking about. It might take me a little while, but I'll do it.

Thanks again for your input on this subject. I really appreciate your participation.

Hi Todd,

Every teacher i've had insisted on anchoring the thumb. I tried the 'floating' thumb and found I liked it very much. It took care of ringing strings, and made string/finger positioning much more consistent. Pretty easy to adapt to. Think I'll be looking into your DVD soon.

Do you come 'out East' often (Philly)? I would be interested in a conference or something, sometime.

Peace,

John

Hi Todd,

Every teacher i've had insisted on anchoring the thumb. I tried the 'floating' thumb and found I liked it very much. It took care of ringing strings, and made string/finger positioning much more consistent. Pretty easy to adapt to. Think I'll be looking into your DVD soon.

Do you come 'out East' often (Philly)? I would be interested in a conference or something, sometime.

Peace,

John

Hi John,

Hey, thanks for your note.... A lot of folks are taught the "anchor the thumb" method. It's the most common technique....but it doesn't mean it's the best technique. We have to keep in mind that the electric bass guitar has only been around 50 to 60 years......electric bass education has come a LONG way in the last 20 years or so.

I'm glad that the floating thumb technique is working for you. It's simple and logical.......and......it solves the ringing string problem!!! As you know, it doesn't take that long to incorporate into your playing......most folks can do it in 2 weeks to 2 months. That's a very reasonable time frame....considering all the problems it solves.

My DVD goes in depth into the floating thumb....plus I have numerous exercises to help you get REALLY comfortable with it. I think you'll dig it.

Right now I don't have anything booked in Philadelphia. I think the closest I'll be for now is Chicago. BUT....I'd love to come to Philadelphia and do a clinic or a performance. If you have any thoughts or suggestions on how we could put something together, then drop me a note off-list and we'll see what we can come up with.

Thanks again John.....

I'd better get going....I'm doing clinics in Sacramento this weekend......I need to get out the door.

Play slow!!

Hey Todd,

I know for me, I've always floated my thumb using it to mute all the strings below where I'm playing by laying it across them. I think what may even be more important is the advice about playing volume or how strong you attack the strings. I try to use as light a touch as I can. I've found it increases speed and agility as well as allowing headroom for dynamics. At one time I even used light strings with ridiculously low action to force myself to use a light touch.

I've heard of the floating thumb technique, but figured I was too anchored in my ways. (Alright, I should be severely slapped around for that one.) Since this discussion, I decided to give it a try--a serious try. It is coming along much easier than I expected. I do think the two week estimate was about right for when I should be able to reliably take this to the stage.

Todd, thanks again for all you share on here and I'm placing my order for your techniques DVD--I figure if I can learn this much from a few of your posts, I should be able to really pick stuff up from a dedicated lesson.

Hey Todd,

I know for me, I've always floated my thumb using it to mute all the strings below where I'm playing by laying it across them. I think what may even be more important is the advice about playing volume or how strong you attack the strings. I try to use as light a touch as I can. I've found it increases speed and agility as well as allowing headroom for dynamics. At one time I even used light strings with ridiculously low action to force myself to use a light touch.


Bassjigga,

You've got it right..........good for you.

It's all a process.....we're all just trying to make the bass sing. A light touch just allows you to have some head room with your touch. Volume pedals aren't necessary if you have this together.......unless of course you use them for effects etc. You know what I mean. (I don't want to anger all the volume pedal guys out there! Ha!:rollno: :D )

Keep up the good work......and thanks for all your positive input.

Well done!:)

I've heard of the floating thumb technique, but figured I was too anchored in my ways. (Alright, I should be severely slapped around for that one.) Since this discussion, I decided to give it a try--a serious try. It is coming along much easier than I expected. I do think the two week estimate was about right for when I should be able to reliably take this to the stage.

Todd, thanks again for all you share on here and I'm placing my order for your techniques DVD--I figure if I can learn this much from a few of your posts, I should be able to really pick stuff up from a dedicated lesson.


You got it Smitty!!!

I think you'll take to this like a duck to water. I think you'll be amazed how this will "clean things up" for you.

Keep me posted .........and thanks for your thoughtful order.

I didn't realize it was you when I sent your dvd out this morning!! DUH!!! I'm a little slow.......(a little???) Ha!:help:

Play slow!! :bassist:

My order and payment went out in this morning's mail--yes, I still do things the old fashioned way. :) My guess is you will get it Thursday or Friday. Of course, if somehow you knew my address and trusted the payment was on the way, thanks! ;)

I have always felt a little self-concious to have a real bass player see me play because of the fact that even though I taught my girlfriend to anchor her thumb on the pickup, I've floated my thumb across the strings right from the start, for some strange reason.:confused:

Now she's frustrated because I'm telling her to change to your method, the one I'd tried my best to keep her from picking up from me.

I'm going to go ahead and get your DVD for her, but do you have it in Japanese?:ninja:


:hiding:

Anyway, you'll see my order here in a little bit. Thanks for the great attitude and support!

I just started taking this technique seriously in last several days and it has really improved my muting and consistency string-to-string.

Sweet!

:D I have always felt a little self-concious to have a real bass player see me play because of the fact that even though I taught my girlfriend to anchor her thumb on the pickup, I've floated my thumb across the strings right from the start, for some strange reason.:confused:

Now she's frustrated because I'm telling her to change to your method, the one I'd tried my best to keep her from picking up from me.

I'm going to go ahead and get your DVD for her, but do you have it in Japanese?:ninja:


:hiding:



Anyway, you'll see my order here in a little bit. Thanks for the great attitude and support!

Akami,

Sorry, ....but I don't have the dvd in Japanese!! HA!:D

Hey, I barely speak english! ;)

......and, you're on your own with the girlfriend.....I'm wisely staying out of it! ;)

Have fun!

I just started taking this technique seriously in last several days and it has really improved my muting and consistency string-to-string.

Sweet!

Matthew,

Way to go.......I congratulate you on that!!!

(I love it when I'm right!:cool: )

Let me know if I can help......that's what I'm here for!

Got the DVD a few days ago.

As it turns out I seem to have developed pretty good technique & posture on my own (I have no formal training. I had an "intro to bass" video I got once. And a couple stu hamm vids that don't focus on general technique). Most of it came about from practicality and playing. (I enjoy razzing on my brother in law who likes to play with the bass down low, so he looks COOL)

I tried out the floating thumb, which wasn't too far from what I was used to doing - I'd anchor on the string above the one I was playing. the other strings would usually get muted with the heel of my hand. So the move to the float was pretty easy so far.. the only thing is when I play the E and coming up off. Gotta get used to that (my thumb seems to naturally plop itself ontop of my PU). The only thing I've encountered is it is rather useless when you are trying to do a chord, or perhaps let the root ring out while hitting the octave.

the exercise that is kicking my ass is the supportive fingering (I think that is what you called it) where you fret 12-15, leaving the "last" note ringing while bringing up each finger one by one, leaving that note ringing until the end. My ringer finger is scared to go alone, he desparately wants to take pinky with him :) However I think another couple of days and I'll get it.

Got the DVD a few days ago.

As it turns out I seem to have developed pretty good technique & posture on my own (I have no formal training. I had an "intro to bass" video I got once. And a couple stu hamm vids that don't focus on general technique). Most of it came about from practicality and playing. (I enjoy razzing on my brother in law who likes to play with the bass down low, so he looks COOL)

I tried out the floating thumb, which wasn't too far from what I was used to doing - I'd anchor on the string above the one I was playing. the other strings would usually get muted with the heel of my hand. So the move to the float was pretty easy so far.. the only thing is when I play the E and coming up off. Gotta get used to that (my thumb seems to naturally plop itself ontop of my PU). The only thing I've encountered is it is rather useless when you are trying to do a chord, or perhaps let the root ring out while hitting the octave.

the exercise that is kicking my ass is the supportive fingering (I think that is what you called it) where you fret 12-15, leaving the "last" note ringing while bringing up each finger one by one, leaving that note ringing until the end. My ringer finger is scared to go alone, he desparately wants to take pinky with him :) However I think another couple of days and I'll get it.

Threshar,

Glad the DVD is being good to you..

Watch the supportive fingering....that's a tough one. You need to master it......but don't hurt yourself in the process. There's a fine line between new, sore muscles ....and over doing it and hurting yourself. When in doubt, stop, stretch, shake it out......take your time!! Rome wasn't built in a day.

Tell yourself you've got 6 months to "totally" incorporate this into your playing. That'll take some of the pressure off. You'll probably do it in 6 weeks........the point is to take your time.

I'm here to help!

Thanks again for your support.....Keep up the good work!

Hi Friends,

A lot of you have asked me about the "floating thumb" technique.

Well, go to http://www.thejazzrep.com/toddjohnson/ARTISTMEDIA/TJ040603.mov and you can watch a short "colllage" video of me using that very technique.

I figure it might help solidify some things for some of you.

Enjoy! :bassist:

great, Todd! This validates what I've been trying based on your posts. It feesl/looks awkward, but I see that I'm doing it pretty close to correctly.

Hi Todd,

I've been trying to get rid of the habit of anchoring my thumb on the pickup (usually neck), because I feel it limits my access to the strings above E and A on my four-string and is the cause of unwanted string noise + some truly unnatural positions for my right hand. I watched that videoclip and read all the comments & tips above..

...no need to anchor that thumb anymore! :hyper:

Right hand's position is more natural, and "walking" from string to string came pretty natural right away too. Of course I need to train this much, much more to get it working smoothly and without thinking (especially the thumb's position when playing the E-string, which I do most with my current band) but I'm astonished how natural it felt right away.

Thank you! :)

p.s ...I just ordered your "Technique Builders" DVD. I was impressed with the technique above, and felt I could learn more. ;)

Darn Todd I have to say I was thinking that you were executing the floating thumb the same way I am but based on your video we are not in complete sync on the subject.

What I notice from your clips, and this is not a criticism, is that your thumb is not in use for anything it seems but as a muting device.

Tell me that this is not true and that you have discovered the joys of the thumb as plucking device. My thumb indeed floats as yours does and when not needed for striking serves as one of multiple muting digits. However I am increasingly incorporating the now liberated thumb as part of my finger technique, particularly in solos. Using it that way has forced me to become adapt at muting in a variety of ways with the method dictated by the outcome I wish to have and the availability of that area of my hands. I use fingers on my left hand to mute specific strings when I am busy with my right, use my palm sometimes, thumb sometimes etc.

Again this really reinforces the concept of finding your own style. We can all benefit from the advice and techniques of other players but at the end of the day it must be our technique deployed to solve our problems and increase our ability to express ourselves on the instrument.

You play well my friend and I always enjoy another viewpoint on the instrument we both share a love for.

Darn Todd I have to say I was thinking that you were executing the floating thumb the same way I am but based on your video we are not in complete sync on the subject.

What I notice from your clips, and this is not a criticism, is that your thumb is not in use for anything it seems but as a muting device.

Tell me that this is not true and that you have discovered the joys of the thumb as plucking device. My thumb indeed floats as yours does and when not needed for striking serves as one of multiple muting digits. However I am increasingly incorporating the now liberated thumb as part of my finger technique, particularly in solos. Using it that way has forced me to become adapt at muting in a variety of ways with the method dictated by the outcome I wish to have and the availability of that area of my hands. I use fingers on my left hand to mute specific strings when I am busy with my right, use my palm sometimes, thumb sometimes etc.

Again this really reinforces the concept of finding your own style. We can all benefit from the advice and techniques of other players but at the end of the day it must be our technique deployed to solve our problems and increase our ability to express ourselves on the instrument.

You play well my friend and I always enjoy another viewpoint on the instrument we both share a love for.

Hi Spindizzy,

Hey, sorry I'm so slow in getting back to you. I've been blessed with an ABUNDANCE of work......DVD business....and getting my taxes done! Whew. Anyway.....I'm back!

What you see on that short clip is me playing a bunch of single note solos.....Cool. :cool:

But, I DEFINITLEY incorporate my thumb into my playing when I'm "playing bass and chords at the same time".......which I do A LOT OF!!! I also use the thumb when I play "chord melody solos" etc.

Like you, I sometimes play with the "palm mute" technique for some really cool bass line effects. I'll sometimes even use that technique in a solo or two......but sparingly.....as an effect.

You expressed it very well when you said, "Again this really reinforces the concept of finding your own style. We can all benefit from the advice and techniques of other players but at the end of the day it must be our technique deployed to solve our problems and increase our ability to express ourselves on the instrument". You've got it exactly right. :)

My main purpose is to get guys to realize that they have ringing strings..........most guys NEVER figure that out. If I can help fix that problem, then I've done a great service to mankind! HA!!!:D

So, it's seems that you and I ARE in sync on most of what we play. I DEFINITELY USE MY THUMB as a plucking device.......just not in that short video clip.

I'd love to see you play sometime so I can steal some of YOUR innovative techniques. Now we're talking!!!:hyper: :D

Keep up the good work my friend!

God bless,

I thought as much was true as your playing shows that you have allowed your heart and hands to run free as much as your head. That would be some sort of jam session! You with your six and me with my seven. Trading fours would never be the same!!!

Bless you my friend.

I thought as much was true as your playing shows that you have allowed your heart and hands to run free as much as your head. That would be some sort of jam session! You with your six and me with my seven. Trading fours would never be the same!!!

Bless you my friend.


Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!....... ..:cool:

Hi Guys,

Go to my YouTube.com page www.youtube.com/user/toddjohnsonmusic and check out the "floating thumb" video I just uploaded.....

This has been a popular subject and this video should clear up a few things for some of you...:cool:

If you like what you see, be sure and leave a comment or two....or subscribe to my channel....

More videos to come in the "near" future!!...:hyper:

Enjoy!!

Todd,

Just wanted to add my voice to the chorus of those who have thanked you for your information. I just started your floating thumb technique about an hour ago, and now I'm permanently switched. Thankfully, for me, it was a very fairly intuitive switch, so while I'm not 100% yet, I'm in the high 90's....:hyper:

Awhile back I had mentioned to the guys I was playing with (who also taught, albeit not at your level) that my right wrist was killing me, and that I didn't understand what was going on. They both told me to drop my wrist closer to the guitar, but as I was playing anchored on the pickup, it kind of didn't work so well. After trying your floating thumb, I wasn't sure at first. Once I started being able to play piece that I knew with it, I was hooked. A short time later, I sit here and type this, one happy thumper.

Thanks for the devotion of your time to help others develop....that is a skill in and of itself.

Peace
DB9

Todd,

Just wanted to add my voice to the chorus of those who have thanked you for your information. I just started your floating thumb technique about an hour ago, and now I'm permanently switched. Thankfully, for me, it was a very fairly intuitive switch, so while I'm not 100% yet, I'm in the high 90's....:hyper:

Awhile back I had mentioned to the guys I was playing with (who also taught, albeit not at your level) that my right wrist was killing me, and that I didn't understand what was going on. They both told me to drop my wrist closer to the guitar, but as I was playing anchored on the pickup, it kind of didn't work so well. After trying your floating thumb, I wasn't sure at first. Once I started being able to play piece that I knew with it, I was hooked. A short time later, I sit here and type this, one happy thumper.

Thanks for the devotion of your time to help others develop....that is a skill in and of itself.

Peace
DB9

DB9,

Cool......way to go!! Welcome to "Floating thumb land"! Ha! :D

I left you another "suggestion" on another post....Check it out when you get a chance.

Again....I'm here to help.