In the CSYO there is a competition every year in september. This is basicaly just playing a concerto and the winner gets to play with the CSO and second place plays the concerto in one of the CSYO concerts. I know a bass has never one this competition (there has been several college basses to be in the CSYO so don't think the basses there suck). I have never seen or even heard of a bass concerto so if you guys know of one it would be great if you can tell me and please include how i can get it. I'd rather start now to have a chance to atleast be second place.

I'll start it off, by composer:

Koussevitsky
Bottesini
Dragonetti
Capuzzi

Most available through www.lemurmusic.com (Lemur Music)

There's also Cimador and Dittersdorf 1 and 2

These are all the ones I can think of off the top of my head for solo double bass and orchestra:

Bottesini No.1 and No.2
Tubin
Rota
Koussevitzky
Dittersdorf No.1 and No.2
Nanny/Dragonetti
Vanhal
Hoffmeister No.1, No.2, and No.3
Capuzzi
Sperger (I'm not sure how many he wrote...I want to say there's 18 of them)
Dragonetti (he wrote 8 real ones, I believe)
Meyer No.1 and No.2 (available for rental)
Henze
Scontrino
Cimador
Pichl No.1 and No.2
Rautavaara
Mortari
Lancen
Menotti

There's also Viennese concertos by Kohaut, Kneissel, Roslaub, and Kozeluch. I'm not sure if they're published.

Also, it should be noted that most of these simply can't compete with concertos for other instruments in quality. In my opinion, the true masterpieces written for bass and orchestra are Bottesini No.1, Tubin,, Nino Rota, Henze, and Rautavaara. If you plan on winning you might want to keep that in mind.

Im going to search for them. If you can tell me where i might be able to buy them and the parts for the orchestra.

I found a few of them. Im going to see if i can find one to listen to. The price is from 17-55$ and im going to listen to them to see witch one is harder and sounds better to me. Im still looking for other though.

Get your hands on a recording too!
By far the most popular though are:
Bottesini no.2
Koussevitzky
Dragonetti

Recordings of Bottesini: Edgar Meyer has an outstanding cd, but he does some cadenzas that are his own with some mixture of the written parts (still check it out!)

Mark Morton just released the Koussevitzky through the American School of Double Bass website.

Best of luck!

The Meyer recording of Bottesini 2 is great fun, but I wouldn't use it to study from. His interpretation is pretty far from the traditional bel canto that Bottesini would have played with.

For me, the best recording I have of the Bottesini 2 as far as study is concerned is Thomas Martin's. It's on Volume Three of his four volume Bottesini set.

By the way, if you have never played a concerto before, I wouldn't suggest starting with any of the really difficult ones. You'll learn much more if you start with the Capuzzi or Dragonetti concerti.

The Meyer recording of Bottesini 2 is great fun, but I wouldn't use it to study from. His interpretation is pretty far from the traditional bel canto that Bottesini would have played with.

For me, the best recording I have of the Bottesini 2 as far as study is concerned is Thomas Martin's. It's on Volume Three of his four volume Bottesini set.

I just heard Meyer perform Bottesini 2 with the Milwaukee Symphony last Friday (back-to-back with his own Concerto #1). You're right, it was a lot of fun. I think his playing overall is deeply informed by his background in bluegrass and other traditional American music, hence the eschewal of some of the very emotive elements of the bel canto style.

Bottesini 2 is on my music stand right now (part of the post-concert afterglow), and I'd love to hear Martin's version. Thanks for the rec., Paul.

The Meyer recording of Bottesini 2 is great fun, but I wouldn't use it to study from. His interpretation is pretty far from the traditional bel canto that Bottesini would have played with.

For me, the best recording I have of the Bottesini 2 as far as study is concerned is Thomas Martin's. It's on Volume Three of his four volume Bottesini set.

Completely agree, Meyer's is technically flawless, but doesn't have the bel canto style and warmth.

Interesting...I haven't seen Meyer play, but I have heard that his technique is....shall I say unique.

The way I heard it describe to me, is that he makes his technique work for him.

That's not to say anything bad about his playing though. I love 99% of everything he does.

To the original topic: I haven't played many concertos, but I would suggest the Koussevitzky for a competition 1st concerto type of expedition. I think that the Koussevitzky is very attainable, and quite good.

If you're just starting out with solo lit, do Capuzzi. I did it a couple of years ago with orchestra and it's a nice, musical little piece with some fun stuff but nothing gutbustingly hard. Norman Ludwin sells a really nice orchestral arrangement of it (www.ludwinmusic.com). I'd give that one a look, there's a recording of it on Mark Morton's CD Thresholds that's pretty nice. Dragonetti is a fun bass part, but it's basically just a big fancy "LOOK WHAT I CAN DO!" kind of piece. Koussevitzky is really freaking beautiful, amazing piece, hard to find the orchestra part for though. I looked. Everywhere. Also, that's one of those pieces where the devil is in the details and I still don't have everything where I want it even after sawing away on the thing for almost a year. Bottesini No. 1 is very nice, a lot easier than the 2nd concerto, but again impossible to find the orchestra part. If you're got monster chops, ignore everything I just said and do bottesini no 2.

If you're just starting out with solo lit, do Capuzzi. I did it a couple of years ago with orchestra and it's a nice, musical little piece with some fun stuff but nothing gutbustingly hard. Norman Ludwin sells a really nice orchestral arrangement of it (www.ludwinmusic.com). I'd give that one a look, there's a recording of it on Mark Morton's CD Thresholds that's pretty nice. Dragonetti is a fun bass part, but it's basically just a big fancy "LOOK WHAT I CAN DO!" kind of piece. Koussevitzky is really freaking beautiful, amazing piece, hard to find the orchestra part for though. I looked. Everywhere. Also, that's one of those pieces where the devil is in the details and I still don't have everything where I want it even after sawing away on the thing for almost a year. Bottesini No. 1 is very nice, a lot easier than the 2nd concerto, but again impossible to find the orchestra part. If you're got monster chops, ignore everything I just said and do bottesini no 2.

Oh I don't think the first concerto is easier compared to the second concerto at all. There's so much more going on musically in the first concerto compared to the second, and plus I like the melodies so much more. I think that the second concerto has a lot of things in it that are technical because of leaps and things like that, but the last movement of the first concerto sounds equally difficult to the last movement of the second concerto, if not harder. I don't own the music yet so this is just based on recordings. I like the first concerto so much more than the second though.

If I may offer my insight to the forum. Lets not forget the key words to mcnaire's initial post. He's never played a concerto before. How many on this forum played bottesini as their first concerto doing some sort of justice to it? That said, I concur with the thoughts on possibly playing Capuzzi or Dragonetti. Dragonetti is basically a flash piece, but, it is a sort of crowd pleaser too. Mcnaire, are the requirements the complete concerto or just one movement of it?

If I may offer my insight to the forum. Lets not forget the key words to mcnaire's initial post. He's never played a concerto before. How many on this forum played bottesini as their first concerto doing some sort of justice to it? That said, I concur with the thoughts on possibly playing Capuzzi or Dragonetti. Dragonetti is basically a flash piece, but, it is a sort of crowd pleaser too. Mcnaire, are the requirements the complete concerto or just one movement of it?
I don't know the exact requirments. I do know that it has to be written for your instrument and the orchestra (doesn't matter if it's full or just string). And when you audition you have to play with some acompany. It isn't till Aug or Sept so I am looking for a realy hard and/or challenging piece. It probably has to be hard and challenging to compete with the other instruments (espeacialy the violins). This years second place (she's performing it in our concert next week) winner is a violin and she's playing 2.d Concerto op22. (don't know the rest b/c im not at home right now i'll add the composer ect... when I come home from symphony practice this evining). Good news for me is that if you have won 1st place you can't win 1st again or if you have won second you can't win second again. I have several months to practice so if you guys will, throw the hardest most melodic sounding bass (cello if i have to) concerto w/ orchestra parts at me. And please show me where i can get to please.

I thought the requirement was that it was written for your instrument? It is quite ambitious for one who hasn't played a concerto to want the hardest melodic bass (or cello) concerto he can get his hands on.
Do you have a teacher with whom you can discuss this with? realistically, it is very hard to compete soloistically (is that a word??) with the other instruments in a concerto competition, unless you're edgar meyer or daxun.
I second everyones advice about the Dragonetti, which is tough, but also a crowd pleaser. (and a great harmonics etude!). Lemurmusic.com has all the music you need, and recordings- but if something is out of stock don't wait for them to reorder it- I waited 4 months for an etude book. Robertsons violins (1-800-A-Violin) also has sheet music.
Good luck and tell us your thoughts upon receiving and working on your concerto!

If you want to compete with the violinists and really have a chance of out-musicing them, do capuzzi. It's one of those pieces that, excecuted well, sounds a lot better than a flashy piece executed half-assedly. I believe I saw this point argued on these forums here somewhere a while ago. Capuzzi is a piece where you can really milk the dynamics and phrasing and put a lot of musicality into it very easily. Be sure to get the edition in F (Boosey and Hawkes) as the D major version is vastly inferior. Plus, while the first and second movements aren't as note-filled as some of the other popular concerti, the third movement, in my opinion, is at least on par with dragonetti and dittersdorf on notesyness, albeit in a less treble-cleffy kind of way. And even if you dont win the competition, Capuzzi makes a great college audition piece and is just a really fun nice piece you can learn for your own growth. The great thing about it is in very few places does it become technically difficult, thus making it easy to learn, but the process of learning the piece will definitely make you a better bass player and make all the flash concerti less intimidating to approach. Oh, and the first mvt cadenza opportunity is a lot of fun because the piece gives you so many good themes to work with that writing a cadenza is a whole lot of fun and lets you toss some flash in if you so desire. 3 octave F major arpeggio for the win.

If you want to compete with the violinists and really have a chance of out-musicing them, do capuzzi. It's one of those pieces that, excecuted well, sounds a lot better than a flashy piece executed half-assedly. I believe I saw this point argued on these forums here somewhere a while ago. Capuzzi is a piece where you can really milk the dynamics and phrasing and put a lot of musicality into it very easily. Be sure to get the edition in F (Boosey and Hawkes) as the D major version is vastly inferior. Plus, while the first and second movements aren't as note-filled as some of the other popular concerti, the third movement, in my opinion, is at least on par with dragonetti and dittersdorf on notesyness, albeit in a less treble-cleffy kind of way. And even if you dont win the competition, Capuzzi makes a great college audition piece and is just a really fun nice piece you can learn for your own growth. The great thing about it is in very few places does it become technically difficult, thus making it easy to learn, but the process of learning the piece will definitely make you a better bass player and make all the flash concerti less intimidating to approach. Oh, and the first mvt cadenza opportunity is a lot of fun because the piece gives you so many good themes to work with that writing a cadenza is a whole lot of fun and lets you toss some flash in if you so desire. 3 octave F major arpeggio for the win.

Sorry Jay, but I'm pretty positive that the Capuzzi has no chance against the violin concertos that most high schoolers work on like the Mendelssohn, Bruch No.1, or last three Mozart concertos. I wouldn't be suprised if there's a bunch of Paganinis and Wieniawskis thrown in there. What bass concerto would stand a chance against a well played Paganini No.1? Probably about six of them, which do not include your standard Capuzzi, Dragonetti, Dittersdorf in E Major, or Vanhal. Not to mention that you'll have to compete with violas and cellos for the string section. The Capuzzi will not win a concerto competition against the Dvorak cello concerto or a Saint-Saëns concerto. It's just not a good composition compared to those pieces when they're played well. For what the Capuzzi is, I think it's an okay piece. It just won't win you concerto competitions.

I know some people who have learned Koussevitzky as their first concerto and I believe that Koussevitzky or Bottesini are the only two that could compete against the violins and cellos. Anyways, if we are talking cyso musicians (coming from Chicago and knowing many of them btw) the players are top notch for their age and I believe a concerto of considerable difficulty would be expected, no matter what instrument.

Not to mention that you'll have to compete with violas and cellos for the string section.


Lets be honest - are violists really that much competition?

My bad, I didnt figure out that "CYSO" stood for Chicago. Thought you meant just some general youth symphony. Disregard all of my previous comments and do Bottesini.

Lets be honest - are violists really that much competition?

Since serious high school viola players normally play Walton, Bartok, and Hindemith, yes.

Kraid mentioned the Viennese concertos by Kohaut, Kneissel, Roslaub, and Kozeluch. I find this very interesting.

Has anyone heard them or seen the music ?

Are these concertos of any noteworthy quality?

I heard Levinson students playing the Saint-Saens cello concerto on bass, quite convincing I must say. I also heard a pirate recording of Karr playing the Dvorak (I'm sorry, it was awful).

Are there more transcriptions that work? (like Saint-Saens)

I heard Levinson students playing the Saint-Saens cello concerto on bass, quite convincing I must say. I also heard a pirate recording of Karr playing the Dvorak (I'm sorry, it was awful).

Are there more transcriptions that work? (like Saint-Saens)

Are you sure it wasen't a Hayden Concerto? He just put out a transcription of the 5th Cello concerto through Carl Flesch. It is extremely difficult. The student who prepared it with him said it was as hard as the Tubin Concerto.

My current teacher said that the best advice he's ever received was to never play better than you are. The best way to approach playing major solo repertoire is starting with something that isn't such a monster. Like I said, no one ever played Bottesini as their first concerto and did any justice to it. That's like asking that violinist that won in your orchestra to play her Wieniawski concerto as the first concerto she's ever played. If I may offer one more thought, I find that playing something and really learning it well then putting it down for awhile helps me to really play it well. So, if you were to learn a concerto (which I still think should be dragonetti) and then put it down for a few months and work on some other stuff and then pick it up again maybe a month or so before the competition, I think that would probably be beneficial. Why don't you ask your teacher's opinion on all this as well?

I heard Levinson students playing the Saint-Saens cello concerto on bass, quite convincing I must say. I also heard a pirate recording of Karr playing the Dvorak (I'm sorry, it was awful).

Are there more transcriptions that work? (like Saint-Saens)

That was my teacher David Grossman playing that. He just released two CD's. If you wanna check him out...www.davidjgrossman.com.

p.s.- do not play a transcription of a cello concerto. thats just dumb.

If this is Chicago we're talking about, then the hard truth should probably be admitted to. If this is the first time you've ever picked up a concerto, then you are not going to win this competition. It's not beyond the realm of possibility for a well-trained bassist to beat the pants off other instrumentalists, but I just don't get the sense that you're really going to be all that competitive.

If you have a teacher, then you need to talk to him about this. The Internet is not the best source for this. None of us have ever heard you play, and we barely understand the situation. Also, you should probably be asking him why you've never studied a concerto before.

If you don't have a teacher, you need to find one. I'll bet many of these kids in your youth symphony have been studying privately since they were 6 or 7. If you haven't been serious enough up to this point to find a teacher, then you won't be winning any major competitions in the near future.

None of this means you're not full of talent and musicality. As I said, we've never heard you play. As far as I know, you have also been studying since you were 6 or 7 and just haven't studied any concerto repertoire.

All that said, I'd like to give my vote to the Dragonetti. If you don't have a teacher yet, find one to help you work on this with. You might not win the competition, but you'll be a much better bassist when it's all over. Good luck.

Since serious high school viola players normally play Walton, Bartok, and Hindemith, yes.

its a joke, buddy. simmer.

Bassists making fun of violists?

Sounds like the pot's calling the kettle black, to me.

Edit: His profile says Chattanooga Youth Symphony. Thought is was Chicago, since the Chicago Youth Symphony Orchestra is so often called by that.

Really doesn't change much though, now does it?

hey mcnaire.....i would really look into Capuzzi or Dragonetti.....since you've never played a concerto before i would suggest Capuzzi for your first...its not a bad piece at all....however do not go for the most difficult piece you can find....the judges don't care if it is a difficult piece...their main concern is "is it in tune" and "is it musical"....trust me man....Bottesini or Koussevitzky are not walks in the park.....it takes many professionals months or even years, in some cases, to prepare bottesini to a point of presentation....so do the smart thing...and stick with managable pieces....once again trust me it will pay off.

Edit: His profile says Chattanooga Youth Symphony. Thought is was Chicago, since the Chicago Youth Symphony Orchestra is so often called by that.

Really doesn't change much though, now does it?
I wouldn't have the slightest clue.

come on guys.....his profile says he lives in Chattanooga.....his youth symphony is CYSO.....put 2 and 2 together and you get the "CHATTANOOGA Youth Symphony Orchestra" i'm not trying to bash the players in Chattanooga, in fact i know some people who were a part of that organization. but the players in chattanooga don't compare to those in Chicago....I mean first off Chicago is a BIG city so that means there are many bass players there and many good teachers there...so I mean....I dont know really where i'm going with this so i'm going to stop now....but i think you get my point

That CSYO bashing wasn't nessesary. I'm going to look at many of the concertos that you guy's have mentioned. And yes, i do make fun of viola players (along with cellos). Now i have you know that half the Violin section have recieved full ride college scholorships (the firsrt 2 chairs in the violin section are 16 and 14) and atleast 3 cellos and 2 violas have scholorships. We have had basses go to UTK UTC TCU BC UM and the first chair is on his way to berklee. I don't think you can compare the chicago and the chattanooga youth symphonys they're almost 1000 miles apart. More ppl doesn't mean better players. But back to the point. Im not looking for something to start off on to learn as a beginner concerto. I see where you guys are commin from about it but let me re-inerate i am going to spend 4-6 hours a day on practicing and this isn't for a several months. I do have a private teacher and have discussed it with him. He hasn't heard of alot of Bass concertos but he said some thing about a guy in boston or somthing that wrote a few and he was some kind of great soloist. I don't know if any of you have mentioned his name or not b/c i don't know his name. But im looking into alot of the pieces you guys mentioned and i will find one that me and my teacher (Jay Stanfield) agree apon.

He hasn't heard of alot of Bass concertos but he said some thing about a guy in boston or somthing that wrote a few and he was some kind of great soloist. I don't know if any of you have mentioned his name or not b/c i don't know his name.
That would be Serge Koussevitzky, prominent conductor of the Boston Symphony and founder of the Tanglewood Institute.

I don't care how much you plan to practice. You can't just throw your feet to the fire like that. You'll make a fool of yourself. Why don't you spend less time worrying about this competition, and more time worrying about being a better bassist? I promise, you'll learn far more studying the Capuzzi or Dragonetti then you would by jumping ahead of yourself. You have your whole life ahead of you. What's the rush?

If you're looking for something very melodic, I would recommend the Koussevitzky concerto. Bottesini No. 2 might be a little difficult to throw together in just a few months, even with plenty of practice time. If this is your first concerto, however, I would suggest the Dragonetti; it's technically impressive, and not overly difficult. It isn't incredibly musical though. Another possibility is Paganini's Variations on a Theme From "Moses". It may not technically be a concerto, but most people seem to consider it as one, so you may be able to get away with it. Plus, you only need to buy one solo string to play it. It has fast, impressive passages, and plenty of expressive passages as well. Gary Karr has a recording out on his Virtuoso Bass Concertos CD, which also has a recording of the Koussevitzky.

I will if i absolutely have to but im not realy interested in buying solo strings.

Since serious high school viola players normally play Walton, Bartok, and Hindemith, yes.

Those are the "virtuoso" viola pieces, you can't forget Stamitz and Telemann Viola Concerto's, I would classify them as more user friendly than Walton.

Those are the "virtuoso" viola pieces, you can't forget Stamitz and Telemann Viola Concerto's, I would classify them as more user friendly than Walton.

Regardless, serious high school viola players are playing them. Violists actually have about the same repitoire from the Viennese classical era that we do: concertos from Vanhal, Dittersdorf, and Hoffmeister are pretty standard pieces.

mcnaire2004, since I doubt you'll be playing the Henze, I can't think of any concerto that isn't in solo tuning that you would be playing. You'll need solo strings if you want to play with an orchestra. From the sound of things though, I don't think you're ready for a concerto that you could compete with right now and that's fine. Most people in high school don't play anything that could win a concerto competition. That shouldn't really discourage you though. Competiting as much as you can will make you a better player in general. Going through audition processes will make you better at auditioning and playing in front of people and dealing with playing under stress. In a few years of constant, hardcore practicing I'm sure you'll be in shape to win a concerto competition.

Kraid mentioned the Viennese concertos by Kohaut, Kneissel, Roslaub, and Kozeluch. I find this very interesting.

Has anyone heard them or seen the music ?

Are these concertos of any noteworthy quality?

I think the Kohaut is published. The Kozeluch is a Sinfonia Concertante for Mandolin, Trumpet, Double Bass, Piano and Orchestra (!) which is also published and actually recorded by Günter Klaus with the Frankfurt Radio Symphony. I don't have the recording though. It's on an LP with that and the Hoffmeister No.1. I don't htink Kneissel and Roslaub are published. I can't speak for the quality of any of these, but I'm sure they're like the Vanhal and Dittersdorfs in quality.

I read that alot of people tune theire solo strings down to GDAE. Why can't i just get higher tention strings? Whats the real difference besides tuning a step higher to AEBF#? If its higher tention then i can buy higher tention strings.

Are you suggesting tuning orchestral strings up a whole step? That's not just higher tension, and too much tension. I've heard of people ripping the tailwires off from pulling that stunt.

Listen, just go here (http://shop1.mailordercentral.com/lemurmusic/prodinfo.asp?number=LIB1100) and make a purchase. The piano accompaniment is in orchestral tuning, so you won't have to spend $100+ on a set of strings you likely won't even need. Without having heard you, I get the feeling that Dragonetti would be a really good choice. You'll learn plenty from it, and it will set you up to be more successful when you decide to try something harder.

I don't care how much you plan to practice. You can't just throw your feet to the fire like that. You'll make a fool of yourself. Why don't you spend less time worrying about this competition, and more time worrying about being a better bassist?

I couldn't put it better myself. Mcnaire, try look look at it in this perspective. If you're planning on making a career of playing the bass, as fun and cool as it may be, winning a concerto competition that one time in high school ranks rather low on the list of accomplishments that make you a great player. Why don't you really start busting your butt practicing 4-6 hours a day like you said you would. But, instead of practicing a concerto incessently, practice scales, bowing excercises, etudes, excerpts AND your concerto. I think that if you really want to play well and have a really good chance at winning that competition, taking an approach such as this would be a lot more rewarding for you in the long run.

Well im actualy going to get that one and 2 of serge's concertos. I'll probably have about 4-8 concertos by the 30th.
I'll be looking over them with my private instructer and will practice probably a page of each at a time at a slowe speed then once i get it down i'll move on to the next page ect... i'll probably have a choice on witch one im going to play at the competition by late july. I'll post the top 3 or 4 that we choose to be "in my best interest" in a few weeks and i will ofcoarse ask for coments and tips on all of them. As far as the strings go i'll just by some higher tention strings in orch tunning. I don't know if I can make the adjustment to playing an open F# string or something like that. I'll probably put the High tentions on my "good bass" and the regs (witch are pretty high tention any way) on my "ply wood bass". If i can't get the money to have my Good bass fixed (got it broken its a Gewsic or Guisic don't realy know how to say it but its worth more than 14000$ i got it from my school for free. it was donated a long time ago. huge cracks down the bottom and the back is partialy seperated from the front. with another crack inbetween.) I'll just do it on my plywood bass.

mcnaire, koussevitzky only wrote 1 concerto...


p.s.- high tension doesn't mean better...for what it's worth, my setup is Pirastro Flexocor Originals on my G, D and A and a Thomastik Superflexible E and that works wonderfully for me both in solo and orchestral playing. If you're looking to buy strings, I found that www.quinnviolins.com offers strings pretty consistently at a lower price than Lemur.

You know, when Edgar Meyer and Gary Karr where starting out, I bet they played 4-8 concertos at a time.

I use Corelli Mediums as an orchestral string and it's low enough tension that you can tune em up for solo tuning if needed and still play comfortably. Not the best thing for the strings, but it lets you do everything on your "good" bass. I have a cheap chinese bass I have string with solo strings but I hardly ever use it since the damn thing's an Eb neck and it is, ironically, not that good for solo music since the high harmonics are one big happy scratchfest on it. Honestly, don't go gung ho with the high tension strings, you WILL hurt yourself. The bass I learned on was string with flexocores that were set to ridiculous action. It hurts. Beware.

Actually, I seriously doubt that any of the great bass players of our time even worked on two solos at a time, much less two concertos. When playing any kind of music, the goal is not to learn it quickly, but to take the time to learn it perfectly. The goal is to make music, not play rash notes. And music comes with slow practice, and the dedicated time to learn it. Don't work on 4-8 pieces at once, and then choose between them. Pick one now, and work on that one exclusively. Dedicate your time and energy to that piece aone, and make it as beautiful and perfect as you can. If you attempt to prepare so many pieces at once, you're only setting yourself up for failure.

By the way, solo strings are actually lower tension than orchestral, which allows you to tune them a step higher without adding extra pressure on the instrument. If you're going to play a solo concerto, you're probably going to want to invest in solo strings. They tend to be crisper, brighter, and overall easier to play than orchestral strings. If you choose not to get them, then you'll need to find an Orchestration in orchestral tuning. Do not tune up your orchestral strings. By the way, I agree with PaulCannon: the Dragonetti sounds just about right for you. Whether or not it will win the competition for you is imaterial. The piece doesn't win the competition, the musician does.

Regarding solo strings, you could always play the competition using orchestral tuning. Then, if you win the competition you can go buy solo strings and play it in solo tuning w/ orchestra.

I don't want Solo strings or to tune up any orchestra strings. Whats the difference? besides the fact that one is a step higher. I don't want solo strings because I don't know how to play them. I can't realy make the adjustment between a E string and a F# string because i will have to switch alot and can't risk the fingering errors. I just said i would get higher tention orch strings so i can get a good loud sound. Like i said if i have to i will get some Solo strings but im not realy willing for the constant adjustment right now.

Besides why buy solo strings? Why can't you play them on orch strings?

You don't change anything besides the strings when you play on solo strings. You use all of the same fingerings and everything. All that happens is your bass sounds a whole step higher, you don't change anything.

The difference in the strings is their respective tensions and thicknesses. The solo strings are thinner so that they can be tuned a whole step higher. Tuning Orchestra tuned strings a whole step higher would be murder to those strings' life and could damage your bass.

And, for whatever its worth, I think that some very good advice has been given by people in this discussion and that it has been ignored, not only by mcnaire, but by a few more people (and I don't mean to try to "hurt" someone with this. I am merely making an observation).

I don't want Solo strings or to tune up any orchestra strings. Whats the difference? besides the fact that one is a step higher. I don't want solo strings because I don't know how to play them. I can't realy make the adjustment between a E string and a F# string because i will have to switch alot and can't risk the fingering errors. I just said i would get higher tention orch strings so i can get a good loud sound. Like i said if i have to i will get some Solo strings but im not realy willing for the constant adjustment right now.

Dude,

Even though solo strings are tuned up a step, you play the same notes that are written page, as if your strings were tuned EADG. There's no adjustment to make.

However, if you decide to play the concerto with your bass tuned EADG, you'd better be prepared to tell the orchestra to play their parts down one step, because their parts are written to accompany a bass that is tuned F#BEA.

Wow you mean i can keep the same fingerings? That was my whole isue for the most part. So if I have a "G" to play i can play it in the same place even though it would technicaly be an "A". If thats the case i will buy solo strings i honestly think that my good bass might have solo strings already on it because they are so loose and thin (i didn't buy strings). But i Will buy solo strings if this is the case.

What does that have to do with anything anyone is saying???
Mcnaire was suggesting that he'd work on 4-8 concertos all at once. That is, quite obviously, a really dumb idea. Justin was making a joke.

Hey McNaire2004,
what changes is the piano part or the orchestral part, not your part. They will have to play a step higher. You can see it in the score how your part and their part will be in different keys.

It's just one step higher, but somehow it changes the sonority of the instrument. It castrates it somewhat in the lower register, but it undeniably projets better in the high notes.

I use Corelli Mediums as an orchestral string and it's low enough tension that you can tune em up for solo tuning if needed and still play comfortably. Not the best thing for the strings, but it lets you do everything on your "good" bass. I have a cheap chinese bass I have string with solo strings but I hardly ever use it since the damn thing's an Eb neck and it is, ironically, not that good for solo music since the high harmonics are one big happy scratchfest on it. Honestly, don't go gung ho with the high tension strings, you WILL hurt yourself. The bass I learned on was string with flexocores that were set to ridiculous action. It hurts. Beware.

When your strings are higher it strengthens your fingers, especially for doing excercises in thumb position, ala petracchi.

Mcnaire was suggesting that he'd work on 4-8 concertos all at once. That is, quite obviously, a really dumb idea. Justin was making a joke.

Touche...I'm an idiot. Obviously missed that part of mcnaire's post.

...This thread is making my brain hurt...

Personally I can't believe its gone on this long. I mean lots of good advice is being handed out but this poor kid keeps rationalizing why he's going to do anyway what noone in there right mind would do. Practice 8 concertos at once??? Tune the orchestral stings up a step??? I think its great that McNaire loves his teacher, I admire that, but dude, if you don't know who the composers are, how many concertos they wrote, etc... you might should find someone locally who does. Furthermore, many people have commented on the insanity of what you say you want to do(4-8 concertos) and have suggested working on scales and technique. MAYBE THEY KNOW WHAT THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT!!!!!!!!! Levinson's Scale and Arpeggio book is a great place to start. Its published by Carl Fischer. Capuzzi or Dragonetti are reasonable concertos for your age and skill levels. But honestly, its a hard enough thing to compete against other instruments(e.g. violin or piano) but don't go in playing something way over your head and add to the perception that playing the bass sounds like moving furniture.

im not practicing 8 at once. im buying 8 at once. Me and my teacher (and maybe a second teacher in atlanta maybe) are going to look and pick the top 3 thats realistic for me to play. And we are going to figure out witch one to focus on. And (i forgot his nm) but he was right serge only had 1 concerto i just was looking at 2 arangments that had a diff name. I know im getting 2 from Serge the first Capp and the Drag and a few others. From what i heard it will prob be the drag.

...This thread is making my brain hurt...
Agreed.

...This thread is making my brain hurt...

This thread is making my stomach hurt. With laughter.

I'm sorry but I am amazed at mcnaire's teacher. I know you like him but if your teacher doesn't know bass concertos well enough to recommend one for you at the playing level you are at then your teacher must be pretty bad!!!! AND if that is the case you could choose any of these concertos but unless you are a genius, your going to have a hard time because you have to work with a teacher who doesn't already know them!! Seriously this is quite shocking - there are so many teachers that know all this repertoire really well. If you are serious about a career in bass you really need to find a new and better informed teacher NOW!!!

im not practicing 8 at once. im buying 8 at once. Me and my teacher (and maybe a second teacher in atlanta maybe) are going to look and pick the top 3 thats realistic for me to play. And we are going to figure out witch one to focus on. And (i forgot his nm) but he was right serge only had 1 concerto i just was looking at 2 arangments that had a diff name. I know im getting 2 from Serge the first Capp and the Drag and a few others. From what i heard it will prob be the drag.

Mcnaire, I really admire your enthusiasm in making all this happen, but I think that looking at that many concertos will just be a waste of your time and a definite waste of money. If you really want to narrow it down, I would say the top 3 concertos that you'll find to be best for you will be Dragonetti, Koussevitzky and Capuzzi...that said, I agree that you'll most likely be choosing Dragonetti...

I was also wondering if you might be able to share with us the credentials of your current teacher...not to bash, but just to get an idea of whether he's really fit to be teaching you if this is something you want to pursue...

It sounds like Mcnair's teacher might be a cello player? Or NOT a bass player, at the very least. He should be finding a good (real) bass teacher before worrying about "winning" a concerto competition.
what teacher in their right mind would recommend learning three concertos at once to later whittle down to the one that works the best for him?? Or tell him to just tune his strings up a whole step, or fail explain that even though the strings are higher, the fingerings are still all the same?
This is very disturbing...

Perhaps your teacher is strictly a jazz player? In which case I would say that's fine, but if you wants to really make progress on the classical side, then you should probably look into taking lessons with another teacher. If you has enough money (and judging by the fact that you can afford to buy 8 pieces at once), then you might look into splitting lessons between two teachers: jazz with one, and classical with the other. Though, you might want to ask your first teacher if that's ok with him first.

What you can do is go out and find good recordings of a few pieces, then pick the one which sounds the best. However, I think you should go with either the Capuzzi or the Dragonetti concerto.

I don't know why every one is bashing my teacher. He is about 80% jazz. I don't realy see a prob with that. He is increadible more skilled than me and has great technique. And i just got my Serge concerto and the whole thing is literaly in Tennor and Treble cleff. Im working on writing the notes out in "english" (bass cleff for homo non bassist). Im not used to shifting down that mutch at that speed but i should be able to be able to "roughly" play it in a month or 2. A few people at All-east had it to. They played it better than me ofcoarse. (im 5 mins away from getting back home and im pleased to see it came in the mail). I don't believe i said my instructer didn't know what concerto's to recomend. He told me about serge's concerto. I started this thread to get some outside opinions about other concertos.

AAAAAAAAAAAUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU UUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG GGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH H!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

MAKE IT STOP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This is getting ridiculous. I don't think he needs a new teacher. He needs a new brain.