Just watched the DVD, great stuff. Really basic, yet eye-opening at the same time. I was impressed. Wow, my technique looks really terrible up to Todd's.

Now I know why my playing on the G string is awkward and sounds different from the other strings!

I play with what I thought was the floating thumb. I would move my anchor point down to the A string when playing on the G (sometimes, it depends on how fast things are happening). Turn out that is not the floating thumb?! It really means no anchoring, and using it for muting.

I tried to use this last night, and WOW, is that hard to do. Breaking this habbit is going to take me some serious time. It is a HUGE step back for me, I think.

My question, is it worth the investment? Can I hear from some of you that switched? I assume I'll end up with cleaner technique, but not sure how it will affect speed. I'm a pretty slow player to begin with hehe.

If I do attempt to make the switch, I'm going to have to focus on this eclusively for awhile, it was taking some mad concentration to make it feel "right." Though, I'll admit my current technique doesn't always feel right, either. It'll be like trying to talk without an accent (well, if I had one).

Its a worthwhile investment of your time in my experience. It is a VERY hard habbit to break, anchoring your thumb. The more strings you use, or want to use the future, the more benificial this technique is. Its quite possible to play a 4-string and never need this technique, but anything more than that and you start to really see the advantages. Even on the 4-bangers, you might find you play cleaner and more consistantly though.

I know it makes you feel like all the work you've done up till now is kinda useless, as trying to play like this the first few times will make you feel like you cant play at all. But once you get the hang of it, it becomes 2nd nature just like anchoring your thumb was, and everything sounds cleaner and more consistant.

On a side note, yes, focus on this exlusively for a while. It might help to learn some new tunes from scratch and start off playing them this way, rather than trying to play songs you know really well that your used to anchoring your thumb on. Use the technique when running scales or warm up excercises too. Sometimes if I play a song I learned before I switched, I still find I move back to anchoring, but anything new I add to the mix is much easier to adjust the technique to.

Good advice! Now to show my instructor and let him know I'll be working on this for awhile.

One question, what do you do when you are playing on the lowest string? Does your thumb/hand just kind of hover in space?

I use it and couldn't imagine playing any other way. On my 7 string, I would be DEAD if I didn't use it because all the strings would start ringing out of control. But I use it on my 5's as well and am very comfortable with it.

As far as speed goes, I can't see any reason why it would slow you down because it puts your right hand in a much more natural/relaxed position. If anything, it should enable you to play faster.

When playing on the lowest string, yes, my thumb and palm are sort of hovering. Occasionally, my thumb might rest on the top edge of my ramp or pickup, but usually it's just hovering since I usually don't "live" on the B string for long.

I definitely think it would be worth the investment because in the long haul it will improve your playing and minimize any chances of right hand injury such as carpal tunnel syndrome or tendonitis.

Good advice! Now to show my instructor and let him know I'll be working on this for awhile.

One question, what do you do when you are playing on the lowest string? Does your thumb/hand just kind of hover in space?

Yes I just let my thumb hang in the air. Like Gorgula, I dont often find myself riding the B-string for any length of time, and if I happen to drop my thumb to anchor, it tends to stop me from picking it back up and slipping into the old habbits.

Just watched the DVD, great stuff. Really basic, yet eye-opening at the same time. I was impressed. Wow, my technique looks really terrible up to Todd's.

Now I know why my playing on the G string is awkward and sounds different from the other strings!

I play with what I thought was the floating thumb. I would move my anchor point down to the A string when playing on the G (sometimes, it depends on how fast things are happening). Turn out that is not the floating thumb?! It really means no anchoring, and using it for muting.

I tried to use this last night, and WOW, is that hard to do. Breaking this habbit is going to take me some serious time. It is a HUGE step back for me, I think.

My question, is it worth the investment? Can I hear from some of you that switched? I assume I'll end up with cleaner technique, but not sure how it will affect speed. I'm a pretty slow player to begin with hehe.

If I do attempt to make the switch, I'm going to have to focus on this eclusively for awhile, it was taking some mad concentration to make it feel "right." Though, I'll admit my current technique doesn't always feel right, either. It'll be like trying to talk without an accent (well, if I had one).


Sean,

YES...........just stay with it. It just takes a little time.

If you don't, then you'll just be another bass player running around with a ringing string problem. (and we don't need any more of those! Ha!) The problem will be there until you deal with it head on. "You can pay me now, or you can pay me later".....comes to mind.

Just work on it everyday. Rome wasn't built in a day. INVEST IN THIS...........In 3 -6 months you'll look back and wonder how you ever played any other way......

AND...............

YOUR RINGING STRING PROBLEM WILL BE SOLVED!!!!! :hyper:

Great advice from all the other guys too.

Patience my friend...........patience!!

I'm here to help.:bassist:

I definitely think it would be worth the investment because in the long haul it will improve your playing and minimize any chances of right hand injury such as carpal tunnel syndrome or tendonitis.

AS far as injury goes, I'm more concerned with my left have at this point. My MTD puts me in some stange wrist positions, believe it or not. I'm hoping it is just bass position, so I am going to buy a new (shorter) strap and see if that helps. Othewise, I have no idea what I am going to do about that. My smallish frame (I'm 5'10" and ~145 pounds) and the small body/short horn of the MTD make the first position a stretch. Again, I hope I can just wear the bass in a more natural position. Not that I wear it that low now, but I suppose moving it higher could help.

Sean,


AND...............

YOUR RINGING STRING PROBLEM WILL BE SOLVED!!!!! :hyper:


'cept when I play slap. Hurry up and come up with a system for that too :)

I messed around a bit with floating thumb technique after seeing Steve Lawson use it live, but I've only really given it a go since I got Todd's Technique DVD last week. I play mostly 5-string (but a Pedulla 6 is on its way to me right now:hyper: ) and have wanted a better muting technique. I've basically used the RH technique where I'll rest my thumb on the lowest-pitched unused string or sometimes the pickup. Though I've played for almost 20 years I feel like my RH technique has been haphazard at best (though I wield a mean plectrum).

I've spent some time playing along with the DVD and then applying the technique to songs and exercises during my practice. I'm finding that string skipping/crossing is easier than ever, I'm getting a fatter overall tone, and I have much better control over dynamics. Plus it's easier to switch techniques (to popping or tapping) 'cuz my RH is that much closer to the strings. I'm still getting used to moving from the shoulder as Todd suggests as opposed to opening my hand position to reach higher strings.

I had a gig several days ago that was just three songs with almost no setup/warmup time. As I had ridden on my bike to the gig through pouring rain, I was wet and kind of beat. I muddled through and didn't really have a chance to focus on applying the technique. I have a funk/hip-hop gig tonight and two straightahead jazz gigs this weekend where I hope to use it.

I've also started to use my thumb and ring/pinky fingers to pluck, too, because they're right there over the strings, ready to go. While I've only gotten part way through Todd's DVD, he is sneakily building the foundation for learning his chord/melody style, between the RH position and the LH exercises for holding down notes on different strings.

Brought this up at my lesson tonight. My instructor thinks it is a good idea for the G/D strings, but it pretty firm about using planted thumb when playing on the E and A strings (and B). Though, a hybrid method, to me, seems like alot of wasted movement. I think I'll work on this anyway.

Though, as I suspected, my instructor was much more concerned with my left hand technique. He's never really scrutinized that before. He just assumed I was doing it right, cuz he is always facing me straight on. I basically have a problem with being rather stiff, and I flatten fingers and really lock up my thumb joint (thumb to hand). I have a problem with relaxing my fingers, and my speed really suffers, I think.

Ugh.

Sean, I don't want to insult your choice of instructor BUT if he's been ignoring your left hand technique (which has been causing you pain) until now you may want to take his RH advice regarding floating thumb with a grain of salt or consider giving your money to someone else. My first lesson(s) with new students ALWAYS start with an examination of their current right/left hand technique, general posture/body habits (holding breath/clenching jaw during fast passages, anyone?)

I'm not an ergonomic expert, but having endured some playing-related injuries over the years, I try to draw on my experiences with the Alexander Technique, yoga, and Pilates to give students a sound basic technique. And playing upright with bad technique is a recipe for disaster.

I managed to work the floating thumb technique in on my funk/hip-hop gig last night. I definitely caught myself anchoring my thumb at times. I'm still getting used to the shoulder action but I found that playing fast lines was easier than ever, and my tone was more consistent. I turned up a little louder than usual so I could play more lightly. I'm gonna have to do some woodshedding to get it down (especially on Jaco-style 16th-note string-skipping licks) but I'm already seeing the benefits.

Nah, my instructor is the bomb. He just made some assumptions that I was OK with my techniques. I never complained to him about pain, and to be truthful, I haven't had any issues lately. I guess I have built up some endurance. Though I do notice, and complain about how long it takes me to "get things" and play passages cleanly.

I tried out the floating thumb last night while shedding (some) and it wasn't as bad as I thought. I need to get the bass hoisted up a bit more (new strap!), but all-in-all not too bad.

Now, back to the left hand, I really worked through that with him last night at my lesson, and I do have some "serious" issues. Ugh, I knew I had problems, but I really have to re-learn some fundamental things. For me, it come down to staying loose and comfortable. I tend to really clench my thumb muscle and completely bend the thumb back at the second nuckle. This straightens my fingers and causes my palm to touch the neck.

So now I have to figure out how to train my muscles to relax and use the correct amount or pressure when fingering. I don't think my action is that high at all, but it seems my hands have two amounts of force, none and grip of death.
heheh.

I kind of wonder how much of it is me, and how much of it is because of the instrument. Maybe 35" scale + 5 string bass = not right for me.

Nah, my instructor is the bomb. He just made some assumptions that I was OK with my techniques. I never complained to him about pain, and to be truthful, I haven't had any issues lately.

Now, back to the left hand, I really worked through that with him last night at my lesson, and I do have some "serious" issues. Ugh, I knew I had problems, but I really have to re-learn some fundamental things. For me, it come down to staying loose and comfortable. I tend to really clench my thumb muscle and completely bend the thumb back at the second nuckle. This straightens my fingers and causes my palm to touch the neck.

So now I have to figure out how to train my muscles to relax and use the correct amount or pressure when fingering. I don't think my action is that high at all, but it seems my hands have two amounts of force, none and grip of death.
heheh.

I kind of wonder how much of it is me, and how much of it is because of the instrument. Maybe 35" scale + 5 string bass = not right for me.

That's cool. I know what you mean about the time necessary to retrain yourself, even when it's something (seemingly) simple like using less energy to play. I'm constantly catching myself plucking too hard, which I think is a holdover from the days when I had wimpy amps and really dug in, believing that would help me cut through. Hearing recordings from this era with all sorts of strange extraneous noises helped me disabuse myself that this worked.

Ah, the ergonomic struggle. I don't have a problem with 35" fivers, but 6ers with that scale are just too big for me, especially up by the nut on the low strings. I hope your experimentations with strap length and technique will help--otherwise, you'll have a great excuse to go shopping for a new bass!

The older you get, the higher your strap goes hehe. It will actually help you to have your bass higher up.

And if you got troubles with a 35...you should play my bass lol :)

Something Adam Nitti told me, was try and practice some with NOT anchoring your LEFT thumb behind the neck. Just let it hang loose and play some patterns with it like that. It will prevent you from getting the grip of death, and apply proper pressure through your fingers, instead of applying pressure with your whole hand. This is of course just an excercise to loosen you up, I wouldnt try and play like that all the time.

hey that is great advice, I'll try that out tonight!

Yeah, I seem to be really particular about scale lengths and string spacings. It is funny to watch me play someone else's bass or a bass in a store, it takes me a LONG time to get comfortable.

Actually now that I think about it, it is kind of like computer keyboards. If I switch them, I go from like 80 wpm to hunt and peck style heheh.

The Ah-ha! moment. The floating thumb = no big deal, I think I'll be able to ramp up on that pretty quick. Just need to keep on top of dropping my elbow.

The left hand though, I found that my stiffness comes from using my ring finger. I don't seem to be able to seperate my ring and middle finger very well, and really can't even do Todd's two finger exercise with those two fingers. I've been compensating by rotating my hand (palm) toward the nut, slanting my fingers (which are no longer parallel to the frets) so I can make a longer reach. This folds up my thumb and brings my palm up to touch the neck. What a bad habbit. Hope I can get my ring finger under control.

I run through a little excercise to warm up each time. Its something I think I grabbed from Stewart McKinsey's home page. I start on my B string, about 2nd fret. 1 finger per fret, I run a pattern of 1, 4, 2, 3, then drop a string, when I get finished with the pattern on the G, I slide up one fret and do the pattern in reverse on the way back up. So 4, 1, 3, 2. I do this down to about the 14th fret. Go as slow as you need to go to get it clean and consistant on every note. You can float your thumb on both hands during this excercise, and it may help out with all 3 issues, muting, finger independance, and the grip of death hehe.

Stewart actually has quite a few good warm up excercises, http://www.subcontrabassist.com/

I too have been working on this technique, and its immediate benefit was improving my right hand placement. The drawback I have noticed is that I play a lot (ie read most) of my parts on the lower strings (B&E) and so I do not get as much out of it as I would if I played a lot of melodic parts on the A,D or G strings. Also I have been having some trouble in that I switch back and forth from octaves in many of my faster moving parts and where with my old method I would have one finger on one string and another on the octave (skipping a string) using the floating thumb where the "mechanism" is moved it requires a lot of movement and I have a hard time if jumping back and forth between strings with accidently muting the lower string I am trying to play.

When you do those octave patterns Badgrandad, keep your thumb behind the lowest string to mute, and if you play through the string on your octave, you will automatically mute the string lower than it when you play through and stop on it. You don't have to take it so strictly that every note you play your thumb is behind it. You can combine this with left hand muting techniques, and just use whats practical in the song, rather than trying to maintain perfection. Its a tool in the shed like anything else, its not meant to be a detriment, so use is as you can, and when its impractical, use a combination of techniques that make it easiest for you, and accomplishes the overall goal of muting. Just like strict alternation between fingers is not always practical. I practice everything with strict alteration, but if Im actually playing in a jam or something, I dont sweat all that stuff so much or even really think about it. I practice it so it will be 2nd nature and I wont have to think about it while playing. But I slip in and out of techniques to get the job done in the particular song.

Nah, my instructor is the bomb. He just made some assumptions that I was OK with my techniques. I never complained to him about pain, and to be truthful, I haven't had any issues lately. I guess I have built up some endurance. Though I do notice, and complain about how long it takes me to "get things" and play passages cleanly.

I tried out the floating thumb last night while shedding (some) and it wasn't as bad as I thought. I need to get the bass hoisted up a bit more (new strap!), but all-in-all not too bad.

Now, back to the left hand, I really worked through that with him last night at my lesson, and I do have some "serious" issues. Ugh, I knew I had problems, but I really have to re-learn some fundamental things. For me, it come down to staying loose and comfortable. I tend to really clench my thumb muscle and completely bend the thumb back at the second nuckle. This straightens my fingers and causes my palm to touch the neck.

So now I have to figure out how to train my muscles to relax and use the correct amount or pressure when fingering. I don't think my action is that high at all, but it seems my hands have two amounts of force, none and grip of death.
heheh.

I kind of wonder how much of it is me, and how much of it is because of the instrument. Maybe 35" scale + 5 string bass = not right for me.

Hi Sean,

Go back to my DVD and REALLY CHECK OUT the left hand basics I talk about. The fingers REALLY need to be curved. All the info is on the DVD. Just go slow and pay attention to the angles you're using. Make sure your middle and ring fingers are perpendicular to the frets. Make sure your fingers are NOT CONCAVED. They should be naturally curved.

Again, check out the DVD. This may take a while, but it's worth it in the long run.

Plus, if you have small hands.....then I would recommend going back to 34 inch scale...... I have. Playing a 35 inch scale instrument almost ruined my physically....:help: ...:bawl: . Pay attention to what your body is telling you.....OK? Food for thought.....

Cool...........:cool:

The older you get, the higher your strap goes hehe. It will actually help you to have your bass higher up.

And if you got troubles with a 35...you should play my bass lol :)

Something Adam Nitti told me, was try and practice some with NOT anchoring your LEFT thumb behind the neck. Just let it hang loose and play some patterns with it like that. It will prevent you from getting the grip of death, and apply proper pressure through your fingers, instead of applying pressure with your whole hand. This is of course just an excercise to loosen you up, I wouldnt try and play like that all the time.

Hi Juneau,

"The older you get, the higher your strap goes hehe. "

Ha!! ;) ...:D ....Great quote! I love it.......thanks.

I'm suprised mine isn't under my chin! Ha!....:D

Keep 'em coming!

I too have been working on this technique, and its immediate benefit was improving my right hand placement. The drawback I have noticed is that I play a lot (ie read most) of my parts on the lower strings (B&E) and so I do not get as much out of it as I would if I played a lot of melodic parts on the A,D or G strings. Also I have been having some trouble in that I switch back and forth from octaves in many of my faster moving parts and where with my old method I would have one finger on one string and another on the octave (skipping a string) using the floating thumb where the "mechanism" is moved it requires a lot of movement and I have a hard time if jumping back and forth between strings with accidently muting the lower string I am trying to play.

Badgrandad,

Stick with it.....it will happen. It takes a little time, but it sound like you're well on your way....:hyper:

It takes about 6 months to really get this stuff down to where you don't think about it when you play........then a lifetime of tweaking and polishing......:bassist:

Hey, I work on this stuff every day.......it's a never ending process.....but you can refine it to a sharp point....it's just never sharp enough....;) ...for me at least!!!

Make sense??

I'm here to help.

When you do those octave patterns Badgrandad, keep your thumb behind the lowest string to mute, and if you play through the string on your octave, you will automatically mute the string lower than it when you play through and stop on it. You don't have to take it so strictly that every note you play your thumb is behind it. You can combine this with left hand muting techniques, and just use whats practical in the song, rather than trying to maintain perfection. Its a tool in the shed like anything else, its not meant to be a detriment, so use is as you can, and when its impractical, use a combination of techniques that make it easiest for you, and accomplishes the overall goal of muting. Just like strict alternation between fingers is not always practical. I practice everything with strict alteration, but if Im actually playing in a jam or something, I dont sweat all that stuff so much or even really think about it. I practice it so it will be 2nd nature and I wont have to think about it while playing. But I slip in and out of techniques to get the job done in the particular song.

Juneau,

Hey, great advice to everybody.

You're very well thought out in what you do. Well done. I also appreciate your "common sense" approach as well. Refreshing!!

Thanks again for all your help!

Hrmm.. My pointer is not supposed to be perpendicular to the frets right? I find that is like impossible for me to do...

I've been working through the first couple of examples and it really is making a difference. Of course, when I go play at church, I fall into bad habbits. I'm working on it though!


....ooh soo much to learn

Doesnt John Patitucci use it?

Doesnt John Patitucci use it?

Hi,

Actually, JP uses a different method where he basically stick his pinky and ring fingers between strings etc.

Hey, it works...........He's obviously got TREMENDOUS results with it.....(He's one of the NICEST guys....and one of my favortie players!!)

BUT......

It puts my hand and my wrist in a very awkward postition....

For me it's carpal tunnel just waiting to happen.

Remember......this is not a RULE or a LAW of how to play. It's just the most logical, ergonomic and effecient method I've found.

If something else works for you then develop it and make great music!!! That's the point to focus on.....

If you have a ringing strings, wasted motion etc... then my methods are sound, logical and efficient.

It's worth a try....rather than having ringing strings etc.

Food for thought.

Keep smiling!!:D

I'm here to help!

Last night I made a concerted effort to use the floating thumb technique for the entire rehearsal and actually had a small breakthrough.

I have had trouble "giving up" all that muscle memory involved with anchoring my hand and just reaching for the different strings, especially when playing difficult numbers. During practice (because it was so hot in the practice room) I pulled my right arm away from the bass and had very light contact with the face of the bass and suddenly everything began to work much more smoothly.

I had trouble when "moving the mechanism" of playing strings that were still muted by my thumb but by taking the pressure off the bass where I was in essense "anchoring" my arm to the face of the bass the problem went away.

It still seems a little weird with all that movement going on and the fact it comes from the shoulder and not just my hand, but it was MUCH easier once I lightened up the contact from my arm on the bass.

Hope this helps someone else.

When I first began to play 6's & 7's I had a heck of a time loosening up on both of my thumb positions. I'm a trained classical DB player and from the beginning your left thumb is strictly anchored on the back of the neck. This, of course, was translated directly over to my electric playing.

With my thumbs now both free to move around, string ring-thru and hand positioning concerns are basically gone. Plus, I'm using a significantly lighter attack, which allows for greater intonation control and increased speed (where necessary).

At a gig last weekend I received a comment from one of the patrons that my playing seemed "effortless". So either my revised approach is working or I fell asleep on the stage :rolleyes:

Last night I made a concerted effort to use the floating thumb technique for the entire rehearsal and actually had a small breakthrough.

I have had trouble "giving up" all that muscle memory involved with anchoring my hand and just reaching for the different strings, especially when playing difficult numbers. During practice (because it was so hot in the practice room) I pulled my right arm away from the bass and had very light contact with the face of the bass and suddenly everything began to work much more smoothly.

I had trouble when "moving the mechanism" of playing strings that were still muted by my thumb but by taking the pressure off the bass where I was in essense "anchoring" my arm to the face of the bass the problem went away.

It still seems a little weird with all that movement going on and the fact it comes from the shoulder and not just my hand, but it was MUCH easier once I lightened up the contact from my arm on the bass.

Hope this helps someone else.

BadGrandad,

You're getting it.

You want to keep your arm in contact with the "body" of the bass...... but you don't have to "glue" it or "smush" it to the body.......

Remember..... you WANT to move the "mechanism"...... so, light contact with the body will DEFINITELY help.

Man, I wish we could do a one-on-one lesson in person..... I think I could "fix you right up"!!!!!

Maybe someday!!

Keep up the good work........

When I first began to play 6's & 7's I had a heck of a time loosening up on both of my thumb positions. I'm a trained classical DB player and from the beginning your left thumb is strictly anchored on the back of the neck. This, of course, was translated directly over to my electric playing.

With my thumbs now both free to move around, string ring-thru and hand positioning concerns are basically gone. Plus, I'm using a significantly lighter attack, which allows for greater intonation control and increased speed (where necessary).

At a gig last weekend I received a comment from one of the patrons that my playing seemed "effortless". So either my revised approach is working or I fell asleep on the stage :rolleyes:

Hi Ed!!

GREAT POST!!!!!!

You've got it exactly right....... When it's done "right"... it DOES look effortless.:hyper:

I have people say to me all the time that it doesn't look like I'm doing much...... except there's all this music coming out!! Hey, I'll take that as a compliment!!

Keep up the good work!!

To Pointbass,

Ed, what do you mean when you say "... my thumbs now both free to move around".

I understand what you mean by having your right thumb free to move around but could you elaborate a little about how your left thumb is free. I too am a classically trained DB player (Simandl) and have taken up the 6 string bass. I am most interested in your left thumb position.

Thanks,
Rob

To Pointbass,

Ed, what do you mean when you say "... my thumbs now both free to move around".

I understand what you mean by having your right thumb free to move around but could you elaborate a little about how your left thumb is free. I too am a classically trained DB player (Simandl) and have taken up the 6 string bass. I am most interested in your left thumb position.

Thanks,
Rob
Hey Rob,

When I was in school about 3000 years ago my personal instructor was a recently deceased gentleman named Homer Mensch, a bassist for the NY Philharmonic (monster player). At my first lesson with him (after I had already been playing DB for 8 years) he took one look at my thumb position, shook his head in disgust and made me begin my training with him starting at book one, page one. All I did for the first month was play scales until he was satisified with my thumb position :ninja: So proper left hand technique for DB was drilled into me pretty good .... it was a hard habit to break ;)

Since you've developed under the Simandl method you are well aware of the strict protocol for left hand thumb positioning. While this structure is required for proper hand positioning and intonation on DB, it is, in effect, quite restrictive for anyone playing an ERB.

When playing my ERB's (either 6 or 7) I relax my left hand thumb and let it free-float along the neck. If I'm playing up in the 12+ fret range across the neck I can flatten out my hand to reach all the way to the low B string. The thumb can be used to mute strings, as well as providing the flexibility to move my left hand freely. With the thumb anchored most players can not reach all the way across the neck.

Key to this technique is proper neck balance on the bass. If the bass has any neck dive you'll end up needing to support the neck, which will limit your left hand flexibility. Just let your thumb float along the neck while playing .... it will feel crazy awkward at first, but stick with it and you'll soon get much more comfortable. You'll find that most of the ERB cats use some form of this technique.

And hey, if you need to, you can still plant that bad boy on the back of the neck now and then ...... :cool:

edit: here's a pic of me with a fretless 6 ..... look at how flat my fingers are compared to the "arc" position taught in Simandl ....

http://www.members.aol.com/justabassplayer/myhomepage/eg41406.jpg

Hi everyone, I thought I would jump in with a question. I just got Todd's DVD very recently and have been trying to add in the floating thumb technique. Out of everything in the video this is at the top of my list.

My question is, when I am moving across the string from the G to the B I have no problems, but when I am moving from the B to the G I sometimes get my thumb "caught" on a string if that make sense. Should the tip of the thumb be raised of the strings? Will this just solve itself with time? It maybe my hand trying to go back to its only ways when i pass by a string.

Thanks everyone, have a great day.

Hi everyone, I thought I would jump in with a question. I just got Todd's DVD very recently and have been trying to add in the floating thumb technique. Out of everything in the video this is at the top of my list.

My question is, when I am moving across the string from the G to the B I have no problems, but when I am moving from the B to the G I sometimes get my thumb "caught" on a string if that make sense. Should the tip of the thumb be raised of the strings? Will this just solve itself with time? It maybe my hand trying to go back to its only ways when i pass by a string.

Thanks everyone, have a great day.

JRB,

Your thumb has to "just barely" clear the strings..... you DO NOT need to set it down in between the strings etc.

The thumb "touches" the strings "just enough" to keep them from ringing..... any harder than that and you're wasting physical energy and working harder than you need to.

Make sense???

Just review the DVD a few more times....... it's all in there.

Play slow!!:)

Todd, I am with JRB in that I also have a similar problem. It sounds like JRB gets his thumb tip going between the strings, and I don't have that, but what I have is my thumbnail hitting the strings rather than the knuckle, and I think it's the same general situation. I will try and describe what I mean.

When your hand is relaxed, it seems that the last joint of your right thumb naturally stays in a curved position, toward the palm. My thumb does this when laying on a flat surface, but when hanging downward as it is when playing, the end of the thumb naturally flexes away from the palm when relaxed, making the thumbnail hit the strings. In order to keep this from happening, I have to actively hold the end of my thumb away from the strings, bending it toward the palm. This is very difficult to do while playing--or, I should say, it doesn't come naturally. Keeping my right thumb relaxed results in all kinds of buzzing against strings as I move my right hand to a different position.

Any thoughts, Todd or anyone?

Todd, I am with JRB in that I also have a similar problem. It sounds like JRB gets his thumb tip going between the strings, and I don't have that, but what I have is my thumbnail hitting the strings rather than the knuckle, and I think it's the same general situation. I will try and describe what I mean.

When your hand is relaxed, it seems that the last joint of your right thumb naturally stays in a curved position, toward the palm. My thumb does this when laying on a flat surface, but when hanging downward as it is when playing, the end of the thumb naturally flexes away from the palm when relaxed, making the thumbnail hit the strings. In order to keep this from happening, I have to actively hold the end of my thumb away from the strings, bending it toward the palm. This is very difficult to do while playing--or, I should say, it doesn't come naturally. Keeping my right thumb relaxed results in all kinds of buzzing against strings as I move my right hand to a different position.

Any thoughts, Todd or anyone?

Flat5,

Wow.....interesting....

This would be SO much easier to fix in person!!!!!

Your description is very clear (thank you).....

Do you have my DVD??? I'm assuming you do from your description etc....

Where do you live??? Maybe I'll be in your neck of the woods and I could help you fix this.....

The next best thing would be to "video tape" yourself and send/email me/ post a short video of the problem.....

You could also send me a personal message and I can send you my phone number and I could try to talk you through it as well......

I'm kind of stuck without being able to see you play......

ARRRRGGGHHHH...........:help:

I wish I were more help.......

Todd,

Thanks for the help. I have being really working on the technique with drills 3-6 and it has been coming along. I no longer really have the issue I was describing, it seems to have solved itself with time. My right hand feels a little like I am not getting as much power behind my finger as I used to. I can already tell, however, that this will go away with more practice and muscle development. I started to used the technique for muting purposes on my 5 string, but the consistency and value of always having my hand in the same position is has amazed me.

PS If you have any plans to come through the Denver, CO area and do lessons on the road let me know. Thanks again for all the help and the great video.

Jonathan

Todd,

Thanks for the help. I have being really working on the technique with drills 3-6 and it has been coming along. I no longer really have the issue I was describing, it seems to have solved itself with time. My right hand feels a little like I am not getting as much power behind my finger as I used to. I can already tell, however, that this will go away with more practice and muscle development. I started to used the technique for muting purposes on my 5 string, but the consistency and value of always having my hand in the same position is has amazed me.

PS If you have any plans to come through the Denver, CO area and do lessons on the road let me know. Thanks again for all the help and the great video.

Jonathan

Hi Jonathan,

Cool........ it just takes time to "adjust" a little bit. I'm glad it's working for you.

If I can get to Denver, I'll be sure and let you know...... it'd be cool to work with you etc.

Play slow!! :D

How do you mute the higher strings? eg When playing the A string, how do you mute the D and high E strings? My inclination would be to use the left hand but I can't do that if I keep the fingers curved.

I was playing a gig on Friday and I noticed that I have been floating my thumb, mostly, during live shows as well. I do sort of get my thumb tip stuck on a string from time to time, but I seem to be at least moving the mechanism.

Oh, and I caught myself planting my thumb on the B string/pickup during on song and it threw me off big time. I had to really concentrate to get it unplanted :) It was 8th note based rock, but it was a super super busy bassline and I just couldn't find the space to switch up.

How do you mute the higher strings? eg When playing the A string, how do you mute the D and high E strings? My inclination would be to use the left hand but I can't do that if I keep the fingers curved.

Sync00,

The left hand is the way I do it.

There's a "middle ground" there with the left hand.... you have to be a little "flexible".... the fingers don't stay in "one" position....there's a little "wiggle room" involved.... Find the happy medium and you'll be fine.

Again, this is one of those things I could show you in person, but it's next to impossible to show you in an email. Sorry about that.

Check out my hands on the DVD.....that will probably help. Plus, this stuff takes time......Don't be in a hurry.....if you can!!!

I was playing a gig on Friday and I noticed that I have been floating my thumb, mostly, during live shows as well. I do sort of get my thumb tip stuck on a string from time to time, but I seem to be at least moving the mechanism.

Oh, and I caught myself planting my thumb on the B string/pickup during on song and it threw me off big time. I had to really concentrate to get it unplanted :) It was 8th note based rock, but it was a super super busy bassline and I just couldn't find the space to switch up.


Sean,

Sounds like you're making good, "normal" progress!!!!

Remember that it's EASY to mentally understand this stuff....but it takes time coupled with consistent practice and application to turn this stuff into muscle memory.

Make sense??

Hang in there. You're in good shape.

:cool:

Hi Guys,

Go to my YouTube.com page www.youtube.com/user/toddjohnsonmusic and check out the "floating thumb" video I just uploaded.....

This has been a popular subject and this video should clear up a few things for some of you...:cool:

If you like what you see, be sure and leave a comment or two....or subscribe to my channel....

More videos to come in the "near" future!!...:hyper:

Enjoy!!

Just wanted to drop you a line and thank you for sharing your technique with us.

I play in three different musical projects - the church worship band (which I help lead), a local jazz group, and (talk about different) a local cover band (which actually pays quite well...better yet, the drummer is also a Christian). I only mention that to say that the sheer amount of playing has had me thinking for quite a while about strategies for staving off CTS. For much of the last year, I have consciously raised my right arm in order to keep my wrist in line with my forearm. It's made for some sore upper arms at times. My wife and I also talked about big "change" purchases (for something like a Barker vertical bass) as a way to head off future problems. Listening to Abe Laboriel talk about his fight with CTS this past October was also very enlightening (and has led me to start stretching and preparing my ligaments/muscles before service or any show).

However, your technique was revolutionary for me because it combines correct alignment with economy of motion (for the right hand mechanism).....so this past week I made a commitment to completely changing the way I play this instrument.

Yes - my shoulder (as I type) is a bit sore....but I'm already making progress towards making it "habit". I'm committed to it, so it will come.

Thanks again,
Jay

Just wanted to drop you a line and thank you for sharing your technique with us.

I play in three different musical projects - the church worship band (which I help lead), a local jazz group, and (talk about different) a local cover band (which actually pays quite well...better yet, the drummer is also a Christian). I only mention that to say that the sheer amount of playing has had me thinking for quite a while about strategies for staving off CTS. For much of the last year, I have consciously raised my right arm in order to keep my wrist in line with my forearm. It's made for some sore upper arms at times. My wife and I also talked about big "change" purchases (for something like a Barker vertical bass) as a way to head off future problems. Listening to Abe Laboriel talk about his fight with CTS this past October was also very enlightening (and has led me to start stretching and preparing my ligaments/muscles before service or any show).

However, your technique was revolutionary for me because it combines correct alignment with economy of motion (for the right hand mechanism).....so this past week I made a commitment to completely changing the way I play this instrument.

Yes - my shoulder (as I type) is a bit sore....but I'm already making progress towards making it "habit". I'm committed to it, so it will come.

Thanks again,
Jay


Thanks Jay........great to hear from you....

Forgive me....I don't want to sound like a "Salesman" here.... but I would REALLY recommend you get my "Technique Builders" DVD.... It's chock full of a BUNCH of exercises that will help you to REALLY get rid of the wasted motion and inefficiency in your playing.... and ..... help you to really get your hands under control.

I just don't want you to learn some bad habits etc.... there are a lot of very "fine" adjustments that can...or should... be made.

If you already have the DVD, then please disregard this....

I'm here to help!!!...:)

Thanks Jay........great to hear from you....

Forgive me....I don't want to sound like a "Salesman" here.... but I would REALLY recommend you get my "Technique Builders" DVD.... It's chock full of a BUNCH of exercises that will help you to REALLY get rid of the wasted motion and inefficiency in your playing.... and ..... help you to really get your hands under control.

I just don't want you to learn some bad habits etc.... there are a lot of very "fine" adjustments that can...or should... be made.

If you already have the DVD, then please disregard this....

I'm here to help!!!...:)
Will do...

Take care - Jay

I also use Floating Thumb. It puts the picking hand in the ideal hand position for muting and the five-finger technique. It can be used with rest strokes, free strokes, 4-finger plucking, etc. Then with the wrist being in a straight position allows the flexor & extensor muscles in the forearm which control the fingers to not be restricted by the bend of the wrist.

Todd,

My band's website was updated recently and a fan sent us some gig photos. I got a real kick out of noticing that I have started using the "floating thumb" when I actually play without even thinking about it (as opposed to the struggle I had practicing it initially). Let the fellow bassplayers know you CAN teach an old dog new tricks! I am attempting to attach the photos below (which is harder than learning the technique) Tim
http://gambit3.com/album/showimg.php?file=/Brothers3Keller/P1050344.JPG

edit- jeesh, maybe not! can anyone tell me how to get the image to show - I thought I copied the URL correctly.

HA! GOT IT!!

Todd,

My band's website was updated recently and a fan sent us some gig photos. I got a real kick out of noticing that I have started using the "floating thumb" when I actually play without even thinking about it (as opposed to the struggle I had practicing it initially). Let the fellow bassplayers know you CAN teach an old dog new tricks! I am attempting to attach the photos below (which is harder than learning the technique) Tim
http://gambit3.com/album/showimg.php?file=/Brothers3Keller/P1050344.JPG

edit- jeesh, maybe not! can anyone tell me how to get the image to show - I thought I copied the URL correctly.

HA! GOT IT!!


Way to go BadGrandad!!!!!!...:hyper:

I'm SO proud of you..... I KNEW you could do it!!!!

I love it when I'm right!!!!

Hey, I'm coming to Texas in late March....Don't you live in Texas???

I'm doing an "artist in residence" thing at South Western in Ft. Worth.... Is that anywhere near you???

Let me know........

Cool........:cool:

Anything in Fort Worth is close enough. Let me know the specifics when you know (date, times, place you'll be) and we'll get together if at all possible. :hyper:

Nice picture! Unfortunately all the pictures taken of me recently show my bad habbits! Someday...... heh

Nice picture! Unfortunately all the pictures taken of me recently show my bad habbits! Someday...... heh

Stay with it Sean!! It'll happen......

What a fine thread this is!

I´ve been doing the floating thumb thing for quite a while now, and I have a couple of issues to adress.

I have a Sadowsky metro 4 string bass.
When I play on every other string than the E - floating thumb is second nature to me. Works very well. But when you guys hit the lowest string - does your right hand not touch the bass at all except with the fingertip?
I really find it hard to nail those funky grooves tight enough on that string:)

Also, while floating my thumb, I find it way easier play standing than sitting. When I sit, the bass slips out of position - especially when I play loose strings.It could be prevented by doing the classical guitar position, or having a tighter strap, I guess...But that´s kind of unpractical....any other suggestions?

Todd is better at explaining this stuff than I am but when I am playing my lowest string (in my case a B) I usually am using a thumb, index, middle approach to play the string or resting it lightly against the face of the bass just above the B string. I don't have any difficulty with strength or attack (of course I have played this way for over twenty years) so it is just a matter of practice.

Sounds like you may be wearing you bass a bit too low and not using a strap when you sit. I find that wearing the bass a little below chest high and always using the strap when I sit is key. Usually when I sit and play the strap carries the weight of the bass and it rest between my legs not on top of either. This also helps to get the right angle for me with the neck as this naturally raises the neck a bit more vertically (not quite upright style but not parallel to the floor either) and gives me a straighter left hand and helps with reach (which on a seven makes a difference at least for me).

I am sure Todd has some great advice for you though so I will leave mine as it is.

Thanks..!

Yeah, when I tighten it, the bass is hanging in the strap just as when I´m standing. That keeps it in place. But I really don´t dig having it that high when I stand. So changing between two different straps might be the solution, then....if Todd doesn´t come up with any other suggestions:)

I´m also looking forward to hear how he approaches the deepest thing.

And once again thanks for taking the time to help out - everyone. That´s what´s so great about this place...all the friendly and helpful people.

Thanks..!

Yeah, when I tighten it, the bass is hanging in the strap just as when I´m standing. That keeps it in place. But I really don´t dig having it that high when I stand. So changing between two different straps might be the solution, then....if Todd doesn´t come up with any other suggestions:)

I´m also looking forward to hear how he approaches the deepest thing.

And once again thanks for taking the time to help out - everyone. That´s what´s so great about this place...all the friendly and helpful people.


Hey Norwegianwood,

I would recommend adjusting your strap so you're in the same position standing or sitting.... it makes A LOT more sense than swithching straps.....AND.... learning twice as much MUSCLE MEMORY!!! Make sense???

When I play my wrist/under side of forearm are in constant contact with the body. My thumb will kind of float or lay "just" off the lowest string.... then right back up on the strings to mute etc.

I hope this helps...........

Yes, that indeed makes sense....Guess it´s just my prejudices from the good old rock days that doesn´t wanna let go:)
(I don´t wear the bass on my knees, though, so it´s not that bad...:D)
But yeah, I´ll definately try tightening up that strap.

Oh, and good to hear your wrist is somehow in touch with the body. I found always avoiding that to be a little hard...it´s also a little easier to play on the E-string that way, I think...

Well, I guess in the end it comes down to the practise, so let´s get back to that woodshedding:)

Thanks again for the time....!