On the other side of bassists deserving more "props",I am curious to know who you think gets too much credit. The only one that instantly comes to mind is Les Claypool. I like Primus but I think his technique is sloppy. He is different but I can't listen to him for too long.I'm interested to know what everyone's opinion is.

What happened to all of the overrated bassists? It's a conspiracy against me! Some that were mentioned by other members (and myself) before (and in no particular order) Tom Hamilton, Jason Newsted, Stu Hamm, and YES Victor Wooten.

Feildy from KoRn is greatly overrated. Whats so special about this guy anyway? So he can slap, big deal. Thats all he can do, and he acts like a b!@ch.

Totally agree with that one! Whe Korn first came out I thought it was good to have a bassist in that style "out there" and heard but I thought his sound was thin. Turn out he wanted it that way because it hasn't changed and neither have his bass "lines?". However in my opinion most rock/metal bassist are overrated because that style has less emphasis on instruction, it's more by the seat of your pants. That's O.K 'cause I used to play that style but people change.

Rudy Sarzo..he had is own line of basses!!
Nikki Stix..need I say more.

And all of the frustrated Guitar players that feel doing grooveless scales and sweeps on a bass is cool. Listen to Duck Dunn you girly bassists!!!!

Granted, I don't have a single record with Rudy Sarzo...nevertheless, there's an interview with him in this month's BASS FRONTIERS mag(Wooten cover)that put him into a "different" light as far as my prejudging a guy goes. Check it out & you'll see what I mean.
Remember the time BASS PLAYER mag put Nikki Sixx on a cover? The next issue's "letters to the editor" had one comment that was classic...the reader said he used that picture to show his students "How NOT to hold a bass".
In Brian's original thread...it was me that put out Jason Newstead & Jeff Ament's names. I was just wonderin' WHY these guys are considered "favorites" by some.
Scottzo...great line about Duck Dunn!

[This message has been edited by JimK (edited January 20, 2000).]

Hi,
O.K. I'm gonna put my tin helmet on and sit six feet back from my P.C......................Paul McCartney!

Paul-"OK", I'll bite...Why?
You don't think Paul Mac raised the bar for Pop/Rock bass playing? Even just a "little"?
Try playing "I Saw Her Standing There"...yeah, it's just a very basic Rock n Roll tune, however, a pretty darn good warmup for your plucking hand.
Later...

I, too, really do want to hear why Paul Mc is suggested as an overrated bassist. In an open forum you can have an opinion, but you gotta defend your viewpoint...

I'm not a huge fan but this must be a personal thing....is this Yoko?

Hi,
O.K. I'm not going to try and defend this,I can honestly say that I personally NEVER liked a single thing the Beatles ever did,I never bought any of their records,not even Sgt Peppers.I thought that at that time McCartney "Eclipsed" and to a certain extent,got in the way of, other Bassists who had far more to offer I.E. John Entwistle,Bill Wyman etc. O.K. maybe not in terms of songwriting ability,but they had a hell of a lot more technique.As you say,probably just a personal thing.

I’m on the devils side of the fence on this one. Paul Mc has stated how much he was influenced by Jamerson’s Motown work – see the Standing in the Shadows book and CD. That being true, I wonder why folks are impressed with such a poor imitation of the real stuff. In his favor he is an important part of Americana even as a Brit. Like others from GB, the Beatles took concepts from American R&B and repackaged it in a way that was safe mainstream popular culture. Good job there! I like a lot of hooks he put to the tunes, but to me this says more about him as a composer of pop music than being a great musician.

Music hall of fame=YES
Bassist hall of fame=NO WAY

jc

...McCartney...BAD..?........can't... compute... .....must...BREATHE.......opposing viewpoint...logical, yet... BLASPHEMOUS..........can't...ghghg...pthth....

I know McCartney gives a lot of credit to "the guy from Motown"(Jamerson)...really, though, except for MAYBE a couple tunes, I don't hear McCartney as a "poor imitation of the real thing". Jamerson was coming out of the upright/jazz vibe whereas McCartney was a guitarist who was into R&B, skiffle, & (later)some avant garde jazz. Honestly, my appreciation for McCartney grew as I got more "learned"...yeah, he's not real flashy-but, hey, there's another thread at this site that talks about "keeping it simple".
Entwhistle, like Jack Bruce, played in a band unlike The Beatles...both The Who & Cream used only THREE instruments; as a result, the respective bassists had a lot more room/freedom to "pull out the stops".
Bill Wyman? I honestly can't think of anybody that cites him as an influence. He's a decent enough player; I know he didn't float my boat.

Eli,

Great response. Well Said.

By the way? Do you and Lump hang out?

Dave

Rekesbass-I don't feel it's jealousy...just healthy discourse. About the "jealousy" thing, though...yeah, maybe about 20-something years ago, it bugged me to hear certain players out there getting it. I got over that as I have seen some very heavy local cats not going anywhere...Full-time players, too. A good example is Victor Wooten or even Oteil Burbridge...currently, EVERYBODY knows these guys-fact: they were both relatively "obscure" here in Va. for awhile. How about Keith Horne or Quentin Berry...ever hear of them? Fact: they can literally play circles around most of the bass "owners" that get the ink. Lest we forget, music also has the BUSINESS side.
I mean, c'mon...Nikki Sixx ain't gonna show anybody anything remotely "artistic" about playing the electric bass.
Really, it's all relative...I'm in "semi-retirement"-I'm really "burned out" from the all-original band thing from about 4 years back + the day job of 6am-3pm...I ain't gettin' any younger, you know? Too, I had two very different gig offers this week...turned them down-I'm just at the point where I'm attempting to get as "good as I'm supposed to be" & if that's not good enough for somebody...then tough spumoni.
Later...(& awaiting return fire ;-)

But, Is he great? I must say he has great tone and is able to sing and play bass well. George Martin was great, but thats off topic. Paul McBass player does put on a good show, was good to Linda, and is a great guy.

My idea about a great player is one who takes the state of the art and expands it. I DONT see where this happened. Perhaps he took the art to new hights in simplisity(sp?)Perhaps I will someday be learned enough to understand true greatness. By then will I stop talking about it and just do it?

Oh... I almost forgot, we are on the BG side of the board. Perhaps that narrows the field enough to let paul pass for a god! > http://talkbass.com/ubb/smile.gif

How about great for a left handed g**tar player who was lumbered on the bass, came out of Liverpool needing a hair cut, and made do in a two g**tar band? Ill buy that.

I stand corrected then...whew!

Sorry... hope never to take the devils side again,
jc

PS no disrespect ...gosh I hope he wont see this crap!

Rockinjc-I love opposing views; keep them acoming!;-) IMO, though, nobody here is deifying Paul McCartney. What I'm not about is making a blanket statement & then NOT backing it up...for thar era in Pop/Rock, I'm sorry, I feel Mac raised the bar as to what a bassist "could" do; again, I'm talking IN A POP/ROCK genre. You talk about "...taking the state of the art & expanding it"...Question-what was the "state of the art" in Pop/Rock bass at that time? True, Jamerson was setting the tone for Pop/R&B. Anyway, the Fender bass was barely a decade old at that time...right? My point is there wasn't a lot of tradition happenin' just yet.
Too, I'm probably looking at the "Paul-as-MUSICIAN" angle...really, I could care less about the BASS-ONLY side of the equation. IMO(again), they're one & the same.
Later...

do I smell jealousy here? all of the players mentioned here are truly innovators who changed the way we all look at bass playing as we know it.not to mention they are all making a good living at what they love to do,which is more than I can say for the rest of us...myself included.we all wish we were the being talked about on this board instead of doin the talkin..(dont deny it, you know it's true)so to say that that the latest guy or gal to appear on the cover of your favorite bass magazine is "over rated" is got to be the most ignorant statement I've ever seen posted on this board.I know opinions are like a**%#@!s, everybodys got one. but you should be ashamed of yourselves to put down someone who achived way more than most of us ever will in our lifetime.just a little friendly fire http://talkbass.com/ubb/smile.gif

rockinjc --

If we are to accept your definition of a great player as one who expands the state of the art, you GOTTA take Mac as an innovator at least. As I mentioned in lost threads, the term "lead bass" was coined for Paul and Jack Bruce -- a thing that nobody was really doing then (at least in pop rock). Surely that deserves at least an honorable mention?

I must say that I can see where Paul A is coming from. When I was starting to play music, the Beatles were everywhere and nauseatingly familiar - they were the band your little sister and your parents liked. The most famous stuff was always sickly sentimental to me and to admit you liked it was instant social death to the "crowd" who were listening to Led Zeppelin, Black Sabbath, Deep Purple etc.

In the early 70s, when I started listening to music in terms of wanting to be a bass player, I didn't see McCartney as a role model in any way - I wanted to play heavy riffs like JPJ and not "Mull of Kintyre" or "Silly Love Songs" - yuucchh! Looking back at the Beatles then, I saw them as the "Boy band" of the time - adored by little girls and seen as "nice" by adults. Whereas the Rolling Stones and Who were the rebels and even if we didn't particularly like their music, they were cooler than the Beatles!

By '71 - '73 it was clear that there were much better bass players around than McCartney and it was also annoying that music teachers liked the Beatles and thought they were being "hip" by mentioning them and suggesting we play some of their stuff!

I can appreciate that McCartney may have been the "first" to do some things, but that is no reason why you should like his playing or want to listen to it. I feel that if you want imaginative bass lines, there are lots more places to look than the Beatles catalogue nowadays and I have no desire to listen to any of it - even less the McCartney solo stuff.

Eli,

I SAID - I STAND CORRECTED!

I can admit that when you narrow the catigory by applying vintage and style PaulM shines. But by doing so one can also concider themselves one of the greats. In fact last weekend I was the most awsome bassist in the entire coffie shop.

jc

looks like i just got an a!s chewin from jimk!! http://talkbass.com/ubb/smile.gif I knew that reply would get someones underwear in a bundle http://talkbass.com/ubb/tongue.gif.my point is someone should'nt say a person sucks just because they did'nt get some spiritual feeling when they slapped that record on the turntable or heard it on the radio.I don't believe any one is really overrated,their just the flavor of the month..does this make any sense to you? and your right about that Nikki Sixx thing http://talkbass.com/ubb/smile.gif woops ...hope i did'nt offend anyone http://talkbass.com/ubb/wink.gif

Rekesbass -- read a little further into JimK's post -- I think he understood where you were coming from and so do I. 30 years ago (makes me cringe to say that) I was a teenage musician in Chicago. There was a strong rival band in the area called TW4 (later TW5). I remember going to see them at one of the high school dances. This was shortly after the release of the movie "Woodstock". Their lead singer was strutting around on stage, sporting leather fringe and tossing the mike stand around in an obvious imitation of Roger Daltrey. My bandmates and I stood around and looked down our lofty noses at these fools capable of such crass plagiarism--didn't they realize that everyone could see right through them (we thought). We would certainly never stoop so low. Well, TW5 went on to become Styx. There's been more than once in the intervening years I've looked back on that day laughing at myself. After all, these guys made millions, I'm sure. I assure you, I have not. So, I sometimes wonder, looking back, who was the real fool? http://talkbass.com/ubb/wink.gif So when you talk about folks taking shots at those who have made it, I understand completely, and I respect your perceptiveness. As to whether the word "jealous" applies to anyone on this post, that I don't know. I guess each individual has to answer that for him or herself. Take care,


------------------
Robert B

Rekesbass-It's cool...I dunno how I got sucked into this type of "diss-cussion"; I usually try to find something "good" in everything I hear. If a certain tune is "schmaltz"...well, if it's "well done schmaltz", that's alright by me;-)
Robert B-you gotta hear 'Trane's TRANSITION solo!

I can dig schmaltz as well as anybody. I listen to AM station that plays “all time hits” here in Lansing. Anything from 1940 on seems to be fair game. I really love to listen to a tune that may have made me gag in my more hormone ridden years, and look for the good bits. Sometimes this can be more engaging as listening to something that is totally cool. Mostly letting myself imagine the perspective of the producers and musicians or wondering why it got over with the general public at that time. Perhaps we should start a thread about underrated schmaltz. Or Bad Music with Good Bass Lines. Tony Orlando and Dawn anyone?

jc

[This message has been edited by Rockinjc (edited January 25, 2000).]

ok maybe jealousy was a harsh word...(my mouth has been getting me into trouble from day one http://talkbass.com/ubb/smile.gif)I must admit that I am envious...even humbled by all of the players listed here(present company included..even Nikki Sixx)I'm just a ball buster by nature who also likes to stir up controversy(hope I succeeded...please stroke my ego on this http://talkbass.com/ubb/wink.gif)and I welcome a good tongue lashing in return.This is a touchy subject in which someones underwear WILL get bundled(mine did http://talkbass.com/ubb/smile.gif)so kudos to all of you who beat me up on this subject.I too got sucked in http://talkbass.com/ubb/smile.gif.Until next controversial subject.....hey jimk shmaltz? I'm not familiar with this term...but I like it http://talkbass.com/ubb/smile.gif

Rockinjc-"OK", I'll admit I had/have(somewhere)Dawn's "Knock Three Times" & "Candida" on vinyl;-)
rekesbass-I was playing with a certain drummer who used "schmaltz" to describe anything he perceived to be "lightweight" in nature...
Believe it or not, this site is very tame compared to some others I've hit...later.

There's others?...I'm new to the net,could you pass'em on?I'd like to check'em out

Rekesbass-the other site I check out is "non-bass" oriented. It is a "jazz" site called www.jazzcorner.com (http://www.jazzcorner.com)
(Ed Fuqua & Charlie O. sometimes post there). At JC, here are a couple of rival factions that constantly battle over "their" myopic view of "what jazz is, what it's supposed to be, blahblahblah". There's a lot of name calling & behavior unfitting mature adults. I'm just as bad as I'll read & laugh as some of the posters are really grisled veterans of cyber BBs.
Later...(snowed in at home today).


[This message has been edited by JimK (edited January 26, 2000).]

[This message has been edited by JimK (edited January 26, 2000).]

Jimk,thanx for the link.have'nt had much time to really get into it been shovelin myself out we gotta foot here in upstate ny....my achin arms-back-legs http://talkbass.com/ubb/smile.gif

Hey JimK -- You're comment on "'Trane's TRANSITION solo!" went over my head. Can you elaborate a little bit? (unless of course, you're still shovelling snow-- I did mine last night before it had a chance to freeze up solid!)

------------------
Robert B

Robert B-the album is called TRANSITION; it's the classic Coltrane Quartet(it's also on the COMPLETE IMPULSE STUDIO RECORDINGS box set). 'Trane just goes off(IMO)on this particular tune.

Hi,
Here's an interesting little snippet from the January edition of "Bassist" (U.K. Bass Mag):
"I NEVER wrote ANYTHING on BASS" ......Paul McCartney (!)

Paul A-
Mac is probably talking about COMPOSING ...I'm relatively sure he composed his tunes on the piano or guitar(ie NOT the bass).
A putz like me composes on the bass.
By the way...when I mentioned earlier "as I became more 'learned', I appreciated Paul Mac..." in no way was I aiming that at anyone BUT MYSELF. In the '60s, I dug The Beatles; when I began playing in the '70s, I dissed them; into the '80s, I'm a "little Jazz Nazi" & blew them off...then the cds came out & I took some time to re-visit them. In the context of what they were playing & WHEN they were playing...what can I say, I dig them(so, for me, it shows I had it "right" when I was about 7 years old).
Later...

In defense of Paul McCartney (as if he really needed any)...
I think all of you are forgetting one very important thing. If you are judging a bassist only the merit of his virtuosity, then we are only talking about musical masturbation.
However if you are judging a bass player on the true merit of his contribution (and that would be to the music itself) then you would have to agree that Paul McCartney was an innovator for putting some very tasteful and choice lines that were the perfect groove for the song.
He was playing bass parts that went beyond the traditional root note playing of most bassists at that time.
What he played was great because it was within the context of the song. Bass lines need not be complex to be great.
Do I think he is a great bass player? For the music he did, yes. One of the greatest of all time? No.
I can think of many who are better. But when I was younger I played his Bass parts on an old guitar as I didn't know what a bass was, so I didn't even know I was playing bass.
His bass playing was very influencial to me yet I did move on to other bassists and styles.

Please forward details of how "musical masturbation" works (plain brown envelope please)......

LOL...as we all know, it's fun...but how meaningful is it really?

If you read the posts carefully I don't think that virtuosity has been mentioned. In my case and I suspect in a few others it is a case of over-familiarity (breeds contempt) and a tendency to go for the sickly sweet or what has been defined as "schmaltzy" that makes most of McCartney's work unlistenable to me. Whereas, I am quite happy listening to say, early Led Zep or Cream for great basslines.

Despite that, I don't think there is anything wrong with virtuosity as long as it is directed in the pursuit of music. As there are virtuoso violinists and cellists, so there are virtuoso double bassists who don't have accusations of onanism levelled at them in the Classical world. I don't see why we can't have virtuoso bass guitarists.

Good point.
I also think that McCartney may be thought of as overrated as a bass player simply because he was so popular as a pop musician.
Had he been in any other band, this whole discussion may be moot.
I very seldom listen to him now and haven't for years. I would rather listen to John Paul Jones any day, but P Mac did have an influence...like it or not.

I do agree that Paul McCartney has had a big influence and that as others have said he doesn't really need anyone to defend himself - he's out there doing it in interviews etc. He plays the music he likes and is very well paid for it, because a lot of people also like that music.

I don't think the question of technique comes into it, and my impression is that the song is always more important in this sort of music. To me though, there's no challenge in this - I suppose it's a whole other debate about "easy listening" and music that challenges you, or is "difficult". This inspires me as a musician, far more than a catchy song. But I suppose the majority of people will always go for the catchy, hummable tune, whereas I like to work out why something sounds the way it does and why it's "different". Maybe I'll start another (off?)topic about what's more "inspiring" - things that are easy to play or that are hard?

Gene Simmons of KISS is overrated, especially now that the 14-year-olds he once dazzled have grown up and gained money, power and influence. So they put him on the covers of otherwise respectable music magazines; release big, serious-looking box sets of his band's stuff; and drone on about how profoundly influential KISS was. I'll admit that KISS was a great circus act for 14-year-olds but let's leave it at that and quit talking about them as if they were great musicians.

You're right KISS was/is? just a show. Now they are where thay belong, in comic books and marketing toys. If they hadn't come out with such an outrageous look and stageshow they would be totally forgotten (they probably will be anyway.) They was a very controversial interview with him years ago in BASS PLAYER and he said some things that I agreed with and others that made him look like a fool. He said some things about women bassists that were very sexist and he says his main influence was....Paul McCartney.

i know i am going to get some feed back for this, but oh well. I dont think that Fieldy is over rated, because no one gives him props for what he does. and if you think about it, he does a lot. since there are 2 7-string guitars in Korn, the low end is prettymuch taken care of. he instead slaps, and does that sh!t so that its insync with the drums. if you listen to the music, you wouldnt be able to easily differ the drums and bass.

Why just pick on 2 or 3 people as overrated...there's plenty out there! How about Michael Anthony(Van Halen),Jeff Ament(Pearl Jam),Jason Newstead(Metalica),Flea(hey everybody under 30...Flea did'nt invent slapping!!),and for that matter any bass player in today's 'top' group's...take your pick!!..just one man's opinion.

I'm new to this and wasn't planning on posting any replies until I read this thread...
I find it amazing that anyone can even consider Paul McCartney overated. I wasn't old enough to apreciate music when the Beatles were at their peak but I've had the opportunity to listen to some of their stuff since then and I think Paul's bass lines hold up well even today. Listen to songs like Something, Dear Prudence, and Come Together. These are songs where Paul wasn't the main songwriter but the bass line is really what holds the song together.
I'll admit that some of his 'music' has been overexposed but that certainly doesn't make him overrated as a bass player.

I really don't think Les Claypool is an overrated bassist. I've listened to Primus latest release ("Antipop") and i think it has an brilliant bass job. Fieldy from Korn is an overrated bassist.All i can listen from fieldy's line(s) is chaka-chaka-chaka...very crappy bass line(s). And he got a BASS PLAYER cover!!! Another overrated bassist is Pea-nut from 311 (he got a BP cover, too)...
I haven't listened to Paul McCartney a lot...but i don't think he is overrated...I've never heard anyone saying anything good about his bass playing!!!

And the greatest overrated bass player in my opinion is...FLEA!!! (i'm putting on my tin helmet too)...He can jam, he can slap...so do i...but his techique sucks...i know he's been a very strong influence in young bass players and stuff, but i've listened to hundreds of bassists better than him...(though, i love the chili peppers)

DrGrosso: why do you think that P-Nut is overrated.....?

DrGrosso: why do you think that P-Nut is overrated.....?

I'm with you, Freaky; IMO, P-Nut has a lot of rhythmic chops goin' on...he's got a killer tone, too(IMO). As far as LIVE playing, I'd give the nod to P-nut again(over guys like Claypool & Flea).
Eventually, I'd like to hear P-Nut broaden his horizons.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by DrGrosso:
"I haven't listened to Paul McCartney a lot...but i don't think he is overrated...I've never heard anyone saying anything good about his bass playing"!!!

AND...I don't recall ever hearing anything "bad" about McCartney's bass playing until I hit this BB.

I think that this forum has turned into a very boring anti/pro Paul McCartney debate, so let's introduce a new victim...

Mark King is perhaps the most overrated bassist of the last 20 years. I find nothing original in his playing - Just look at 'Dune Tune' - if I was Stanley Clarke, I'd have sued. Another bassist who thinks that "fast" + "slap" = "good bass playing".

David

Hey, David I'm sure you're pleased to know that Alembic makes (made?) a bass model named after Mark King http://www.talkbass.com/ubb/biggrin.gif .

Anyway, overrated bassists, you say? Duff McKagan. 'nuff said. (actually, the less said the better).

Will C.

I thought that at that time McCartney "Eclipsed" and to a certain extent,got in the way of, other Bassists who had far more to offer I.E. John Entwistle,Bill Wyman etc.

(Pedro preplexed) I like Bill Wymans playing but technique is not a term I'd ever, ever use with respect to his playing.

Please continue.

You stated your own problem in your post. Go out and buy or borrow a copy of SGT Pepper and you will hear why McCartney is so revered. Or better yet, listen to "Something" off of Abbey Road. It's a perfect opportunity for a normal bassist to underpin the song with root notes and I'm sure there were tons of bassists around who would have done just that and the song would have worked. But listen to the flights of fancy that Paul goes on - it's truly an inspired performance and a very emblematic one as far as showcasing his talent and style. He's incredible.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Paul A:
Hi,
O.K. I'm not going to try and defend this,I can honestly say that I personally NEVER liked a single thing the Beatles ever did,I never bought any of their records,not even Sgt Peppers.I thought that at that time McCartney "Eclipsed" and to a certain extent,got in the way of, other Bassists who had far more to offer I.E. John Entwistle,Bill Wyman etc. O.K. maybe not in terms of songwriting ability,but they had a hell of a lot more technique.As you say,probably just a personal thing.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Will C. said:

"Anyway, overrated bassists, you say? Duff McKagan. 'nuff said. (actually, the less said the better)."

LOL Will...I never heard ANYONE tout Duff as a great player have you? To qualify as an "over rated" bassist for this discussion I think SOMEONE has to have first claimed that player as being good don't they?

I lump Nikki Sixx and Gene Simmons in the "Show Biz" end of players. Neither are great players, neither really claim to be as far as I can tell but I'd rather have their bank accounts over Keith Horn's anyday.

As far as Rudy Sarzo goes...read my article on him as JohnK suggested and you just might get a new perspective on him. Better yet go catch him on tour with QR and see for yourself. This guy can play...I kid you not. Oh and by the way..he's had two lines of signature basses from two different companies. The Washburn was junk but the Peavey Sarzo is one of the best basses for the money out there. I doubt if any of you who are making fun of them ever played one.

These negative threads or spy vs spy type threads are such crap...there is no right or wrong, best or worst anything when it comes to music...it's far too subjective. These threads only serve as flame bait.

What a bunch of horse manure.

[This message has been edited by Dude (edited April 07, 2000).]

[This message has been edited by Dude (edited April 07, 2000).]

I was one of those who thought McCartney was good, but didn't understand why people considered him great. I used to think that he just sat behind the songs, playing the right things.
Then, I got into a band where I had to learn some of the older Beatles stuff. WHEW! He's much harder to learn than he sounds. Some of his walking lines border on lead melodies more than bass foundations. He deserves all the credit he gets.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Dude:
Will C. said:

"Anyway, overrated bassists, you say? Duff McKagan. 'nuff said. (actually, the less said the better)."

LOL Will...I never heard ANYONE tout Duff as a great player have you? To qualify as an "over rated" bassist for this discussion I think SOMEONE has to have first claimed that player as being good don't they?

I lump Nikki Sixx and Gene Simmons in the "Show Biz" end of players. Neither are great players, neither really claim to be as far as I can tell but I'd rather have their bank accounts over Keith Horn's anyday.

As far as Rudy Sarzo goes...read my article on him as JohnK suggested and you just might get a new perspective on him. Better yet go catch him on tour with QR and see for yourself. This guy can play...I kid you not. Oh and by the way..he's had two lines of signature basses from two different companies. The Washburn was junk but the Peavey Sarzo is one of the best basses for the money out there. I doubt if any of you who are making fun of them ever played one.

These negative threads or spy vs spy type threads are such crap...there is no right or wrong, best or worst anything when it comes to music...it's far too subjective. These threads only serve as flame bait.

What a bunch of horse manure.

[This message has been edited by Dude (edited April 07, 2000).]

[This message has been edited by Dude (edited April 07, 2000).]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

So Will C. thinks "there is no right or wrong when it comes to music"? Will C. has obviously never heard Leonard Nimoy sing Proud Mary.

Way back on page 1 of this thread Bryan suggested Stu Hamm as an overrated. This surprised me greatly but what I found even more surprising was that not a single response was posted in his defense!!! How can a discussion on Paul McCartney go on for days and days yet this comment is untouched?
Obviously I disagree with Bryans opinion and I would love to hear why I seem to be the only one.

Hey Rp,
I got a copy of sgt peppers,sorry still dont like it,still think he's (as a bass player - NOT composer) overrated...can I take it back to the shop now and change it for something I like????
and Pedro, How many times you seen Wyman live?? for me about 20 or so times since the sixties,not just with the stones but,Willy and the poorboys,and the rythm kings.
Let me tell you,old Bill is pretty damn good!

Hey Paul A-

No you can't take it back and Bill Wyman still doesn't have any technique!! http://www.talkbass.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

Just kidding...

I think the most impressive thing about Geddy Lee is the fact that he can play some incredibly technical bass lines and sing at the same time!! How does he do that?

Well,the bassists cant really help the fact that they are sometimes overrated,but I would have to say the most overrated is Sting. Maybe if he didnt sing he would play better,but i dont see where he is fantastic.

Sting is not over rated. his bass lien are beautiful. not technically brilliant.
he writes basslines that perfectly lead and fit the song...

...but (fair enough) he is a twat.

OK---I'll throw in my opinion.
Fieldy ( God, I HATE that name !!!!) is not an over-rated bass player. Fieldy is not a bass player. He's simply the guy at stage left who happens to be holding the bass.
Flea is the most over-rated bass player.
Coming in at close seconds is: Nikki Sixx & Gene Simmons. There, I've said it.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by basspsycho:
Well,the bassists cant really help the fact that they are sometimes overrated,but I would have to say the most overrated is Sting. Maybe if he didnt sing he would play better,but i dont see where he is fantastic.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Admittedly, Sting is no Fieldy http://www.talkbass.com/ubb/biggrin.gif but have you heard any of the work he did in a little obscure trio called The Police? Just wondering. He didn't play like he plays now, but either way the guy's a highly accomplished bassist. Sting knows how to right a bassline.

i heard Bryan say that tom hamilton was over-rated. well i'm sorry but i have to dissagree with this statement. tom hamilton is shadowed by tyler and perry, so there's now great spotlight for him to over-rate in.
i like hamilton and i hope he lives forever, and i hope METALLICA DIES!!!!
kick me off napster you bastards.....

------------------
sitting on a castle, on the floor with Ezmeralda, waiting for the geezer, captain crunch to come around. felling suicidal 'cos of certain situations, hanging from the stairs too long, i think i'm coming down....it's time to CRASH!!!

oh i also hate korn too.....so screw the skippy poofter slapping Feildy!!!
(i hope i spelt his name right but quite frankly i don't give two F**KING S**TS!)


------------------
sitting on a castle, on the floor with Ezmeralda, waiting for the geezer, captain crunch to come around. felling suicidal 'cos of certain situations, hanging from the stairs too long, i think i'm coming down....it's time to CRASH!!!

Sting does write a damned good bassline. (Walking on the Moon or Can't Stand losing you, for example)

Flea is overrated, yes. Maybe that's cuase RHCP are popular with a lot of people who aren't musicians, but who "know that he plays good bass". If you get my picture?

Flea does write some incredibly beautiful lines. Example: Funky Monks (go check it out again) in fact practicallty everything on BSSM is spot on (in my humble opinion).

Korn: I've never heard 'em. I'll make an effort and get back to you lot on that one.

I like the description above: "person on stage who holds the bass", there is so many people out there like that.

It really 'gets my goat' when I see a band on TV and the bass player is playing a naff line with absoultley no groove whatsoever.

I find myself thinking 'Christ, I'd be embaressed if I even came out with cr*p like that in a jam'.

Still their on TV and I aint. (MTV-s*ck-ass wh*res, all of 'em. I just don't wanna be rich and famous!)

OK, How about Billy Sheenan.

Look at his hair for Gods sake! And as for that nasty bass of his, with the scooped out fret board. Need I say more?


Always judge a book by it's cover.

ok ok ok...
this is getting out of control if you ask me. all of a sudden it seems like we're attacking people if they like a certain player. let's all remember one simple thing: music is subjective, and really shouldn't be the basis for attacking anyone. of course if they proceed to curse you out as a result of it, be my guest. but anyways back to bassists specifically: first i's ask how do we define a 'great' player? someone who is flawless in technique? someone who is innovative? someone who is all that and a bag of chips? my analogy here goes into the guitarist field. most people agree that stevie ray was pretty amazing; now look at kenny wayne sheppard, who may be the second coming of stevie in style and sound and technique, but a LOT of people don't like kenny. the argument: anyone can be taught to play like someone else. so what makes someone good and another person who plays just like them bad? a big part of what i see here has to do with preference (for instance a hardcore jazz fan is probably not going to like a striaght up rock bassist) but it also has to do with what the individual bassist is doing. sure a guy might not be technically perfect, or not be the most innovative player ever, but we all can't be jaco. if we were, life would be perfect and all wars would cease and peace would reign over all the earth...

so that's my two cents. i guess to sum it up i'll say that i may like some guys that someone else doesn't and they may think my least favorite bassist is god, but does it matter? no. i feel that posts like this never lead to anything constructive but rather serve to promote the 'holier than thou' ego for the purists who feel it's fashionable to frown upon those who like bassists other than jaco, miller, clarke, or whoever the 'greatest bassist' of the day might be.

[This message has been edited by qbert00001 (edited June 06, 2000).]

Les Claypool
Paul Mcartney
Gene Simmons
Fieldy( he is reaaallllly bad)
Flea


Just to name a few

i was only kidding about billy sheehan. hence the "always judge a book" comment.sorry.

surely being overated is down to the mass public opinion of a player, not the players themselves?

Slash, would be a perfect example of an overated guitarist.

Same goes for Flea in the arena of bass, true he is pretty nifty on the bass and writes some lovely music (my opinion), but he is "overated", as everyone and their dog think he's the best thing since sliced bread. I think this is purely to his exposure as a bassist.

Is being overated is a natural progression from being popular for playing an instrument well or innovatively?

Would we consider Jimi Hendrix or Eric Clapton overated?

Claptout (errr...I mean Clapton...) was called God at one point...was he not?

maybe...possibly...just a little overated?

I cant really say as I havent met my maker yet...time will tell.

I'm sure God either plays the blues or Alanis Morrisette covers?

only one name comes to mind- Fieldy

&gt;and Pedro, How many times you seen Wyman live?? for me about 20 or so times since the sixties,not just with the stones but,Willy and the poorboys,and the rythm kings.
Let me tell you,old Bill is pretty damn good!

Paul A, sorry I didn't see your post. I'm sorry to say, I've never seen Wyman live. I think I may have mislead you into believing I don't appreciate Wyman's playing. Nothing could be further from the truth. I grew up listening to his playing and cut my teeth on early Stones back when I started in 1964. Never the less, I've never thought of Wyman as playing particularly difficult basslines. Good ones, yes. Difficult no. Wyman himself has stated that he doesn't like busy bass playing. He purposefully keeps his lines simple and tasteful.

Is Tina Weymouth any good? I can't tell ... I've been watching the Talking Heads' "Stop Making Sense" DVD, and it really bugs me the way the fingers on her left hand flail around like that. She seems to have a groove, but her technique is suspect. She was having trouble with articulating note lengths on a couple of the tunes. Help me out here.

For all of you who think Victor Wooten is overrated you need to look the word up. Vic and all of the other "greats" mentioned on the forum certainly live up to their reputations. As for overrated try these on; Fieldy, Peanut, that guy from rage and the king of all hacks that ugly naked little turd FLEA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Okay people....I've only seen one person name Michael Anthony of Van Halen as being overrated. I have to disagree...in my mind, he's not overrated. Just horribly bad at bass! Groove? I don't think he knows the meaning of the word. Feel? Only if you believe building a bass after your favorite bar room poison and beating the poor thing up to get fans to cheer counts!!! What is this?

I remember when For Unlawful Carnal Knowledge came out, he talked about the bassline on "Poundcake" which is steady 16th notes played through the entire song like he is the only bassist out there who can play it! Or write something like that! Hard to play? Perhaps it's hard to play fast 16th notes for 4 minutes, but is that a good bass line? Does it have a groove? Did he mix it up? Did he add any melody or harmony? Couldn't you have done the exact same thing (excuse me for this) on a keyboard?

The guy is just a horrible bass player. To ever consider him as good, let alone great, is something that noone should ever do...and he must stop doing it himself!!!

Originally posted by pedro
&gt;and Pedro, How many times you seen Wyman live?? for me about 20 or so times since the sixties,not just with the stones but,Willy and the poorboys,and the rythm kings.
Let me tell you,old Bill is pretty damn good!

Paul A, sorry I didn't see your post. I'm sorry to say, I've never seen Wyman live. I think I may have mislead you into believing I don't appreciate Wyman's playing. Nothing could be further from the truth. I grew up listening to his playing and cut my teeth on early Stones back when I started in 1964. Never the less, I've never thought of Wyman as playing particularly difficult basslines. Good ones, yes. Difficult no. Wyman himself has stated that he doesn't like busy bass playing. He purposefully keeps his lines simple and tasteful.

No misleading on your part, Pedro. Your post says you though Macca overshadowed others who had more to offer...like Bill. That's what we call a compliment:D

Originally posted by RAM
Okay people....I've only seen one person name Michael Anthony of Van Halen as being overrated. I have to disagree...in my mind, he's not overrated. Just horribly bad at bass! Groove? I don't think he knows the meaning of the word. Feel? Only if you believe building a bass after your favorite bar room poison and beating the poor thing up to get fans to cheer counts!!! What is this?

I remember when For Unlawful Carnal Knowledge came out, he talked about the bassline on "Poundcake" which is steady 16th notes played through the entire song like he is the only bassist out there who can play it! Or write something like that! Hard to play? Perhaps it's hard to play fast 16th notes for 4 minutes, but is that a good bass line? Does it have a groove? Did he mix it up? Did he add any melody or harmony? Couldn't you have done the exact same thing (excuse me for this) on a keyboard?

The guy is just a horrible bass player. To ever consider him as good, let alone great, is something that noone should ever do...and he must stop doing it himself!!!

C'mon RAM, Michael Anthony (aka The Luckiest Man on the Face of the Planet(tm) ;)) really pounds out those lines with conviction. Could anyone else do it?...could I do it for all those years?... I tell myself no but when the check cleared...

You know, it IS really all about the money, isn't it? Wow! Brad...thanks for showing me the light! I can't believe I'd been so close-minded! How many other bassists, aside from Michael Anthony, have been able to go out night after night and just play their little hearts out like that? I do have tremendous respect for the guy, who has a tremendous collection of JD bottles! I once read an intereview with him that said his dad didn't want him going into music, but quickly changed his mind when young Michael bought dad a Cadillac! Wow! That story touched me almost as much as when the proverbial rookie in the NBA buys his mom a house immediately after signing his first contract. (sob, sob, sob)

Long live Michael Anthony and all those wonderful bassists who do such a great job of supporting their lead guitarist as he does!

I think it's pretty tough to say who's overrated. Most of the guys being listed so far aren't rated at all! Guys like Sixx, Simmons, Anthony. Nobody talks about their playing, nor should they, because there's nothing really special about it. Feildy on the other hand, is almost certainly overrated. I see his stupid name all over the place. If I could bring myself to listen to a Korn song, I could decide whether he's any good or not.

Originally posted by ScottE
I think it's pretty tough to say who's overrated. Most of the guys being listed so far aren't rated at all! Guys like Sixx, Simmons, Anthony. Nobody talks about their playing, nor should they, because there's nothing really special about it. Feildy on the other hand, is almost certainly overrated. I see his stupid name all over the place. If I could bring myself to listen to a Korn song, I could decide whether he's any good or not.

I find it interesting to say that you never see their names listed. I am willing to go so far as to say I've seen Van Halen a few times in concert (for entertainment value, anyway), and during his bass solo especially, I hear people shout about how Anthony's the best. I'd love to get into an argument and have someone say to me, "Yeah...you're just jealous...I'd like to see you do that stuff!"

Not to tout myself of being a particular level of quality bass player, because I know damn well that there are some out there that I can't even figure out, let alone compare to, but I will take that challenge any day!

I do think that Michael Anthony does get a lot of credit for being a good bass player, although I have yet to find someone in TB who agrees with this concept. I certainly don't. I remember after his interview in Bass Player a few years ago, there were some readers who wrote in commenting on the interview saying they didn't realize he was so diverse, so good, etc...I laughed my kiester off!!! What a joke! He actually managed to get some readers convinced that he was a good bassist because of that interview! I'm curious why these same readers had previously thought he was terrible, merely from hearing his stuff!

Originally posted by RAM

I find it interesting to say that you never see their names listed. I am willing to go so far as to say I've seen Van Halen a few times in concert (for entertainment value, anyway), and during his bass solo especially, I hear people shout about how Anthony's the best. I'd love to get into an argument and have someone say to me, "Yeah...you're just jealous...I'd like to see you do that stuff!"

Not to tout myself of being a particular level of quality bass player, because I know damn well that there are some out there that I can't even figure out, let alone compare to, but I will take that challenge any day!

I do think that Michael Anthony does get a lot of credit for being a good bass player, although I have yet to find someone in TB who agrees with this concept. I certainly don't. I remember after his interview in Bass Player a few years ago, there were some readers who wrote in commenting on the interview saying they didn't realize he was so diverse, so good, etc...I laughed my kiester off!!! What a joke! He actually managed to get some readers convinced that he was a good bassist because of that interview! I'm curious why these same readers had previously thought he was terrible, merely from hearing his stuff! [/B]


So people at Van Halen concerts shout about how great Anthony is? Well, I wouldn't expect anything less. The people at the concert ought to like the music and the players a good bit. I would never go to a concert and say the people on stage suck.

I don't think any of those people are necessarily bad players, but I don' t find very much of interest in it.

Dredging up the much maligned Duff McKagan again of that infamous band, Guns 'n' Roses, I know some of you have said he can't be over rated because he isn't even rated. And, yes, as a bass virtuoso, he fails miserably. In fact, I suspect that his basslines on G 'n' R records are overdubbed by someone else.

However, I have to say something in his defense and Slash, too, as Slash's name was mentioned here, too. Duff was PERFECT for what he did in the context of a band famous as much for being "bad boys" as for their music. G "n" R was an image band, very, very much an image band.

Now I ask you, if John Patitucci had played bass, Dave Wekl had played drums and Chic Corea had been on keys and, oh yes, Al Dimeola or Pat Metheny on guitar would Guns 'n' Roses have acheived the success they had? I say emphatically NO, absolutely not.

Duff, hunched over his bass hanging down to his knees, staggering around the stage, trying to find his place in the music with the drummer or one of the guitars, cigarrett dangling from his mouth, tangled blond locks...the whole nine yards...was PERFECT for his role of bassist in the late eightie's and early nineties baddest, bad boy band.

Stanley Clarke couldn't have been better. Geddy Lee couldn't have been better. Not even Jaco. It HAD to be Duff.
And that is the true bottom line. Jason Oldsted

Noel Redding...not that he was ever rated that high to begin with.....more like being in the right place, at the right time.

Originally posted by RAM
You know, it IS really all about the money, isn't it? Wow! Brad...thanks for showing me the light! I can't believe I'd been so close-minded! How many other bassists, aside from Michael Anthony, have been able to go out night after night and just play their little hearts out like that? I do have tremendous respect for the guy, who has a tremendous collection of JD bottles! I once read an intereview with him that said his dad didn't want him going into music, but quickly changed his mind when young Michael bought dad a Cadillac! Wow! That story touched me almost as much as when the proverbial rookie in the NBA buys his mom a house immediately after signing his first contract. (sob, sob, sob)

Long live Michael Anthony and all those wonderful bassists who do such a great job of supporting their lead guitarist as he does!

Somebody's got to do it:D I think, like Duff in GNR, that Mike fits VH to a T. OK, RSVP,EIEIO,RIF. I don't disrepect him and I don't think he's overrated. As someone already said, you have to be rated first in order to be overrated. Imagine Billy Sheehan in VH instead...hey just for grins, lets dig up Keith Moon to replace Alexander. I'm getting a headache thinking about that one.


Dis-claimer: No offense to any fans of the aforementioned artists, living or dead (or both). Your mileage may vary. Void where prohibited. Some settling make occur. In clinical studies a placebo was found to cause the same anal leakage as the product. See you doctor. It was a joke, son...a joke.

If that really is Duff on Appetite for destruction then he really can't be that bad because the bass lines on the album are solid.

I saw G&R at the old Felt Forum, it's right by MSG and sits about 1600. It was about week after the Album came out. Udo(from Accept) and Zodiac Mindwarp opened ha ha ha.
Then G&R They blew the house up. Did 2hrs played the whole album and an hour of Aerosmith songs. Duff played the lines on the album note for note and they were pretty tight.

Yes I know they were image, I know the music was not Return to Forever..but what was out then? Ciderella?? Ratt?? Poison?? The Beastie Boys were as good as it got.

I saw them about 10 years later at a the Meadowlands which sits 60,000+. and they SUCKED. Half the band was gone and they added about 35 new members and they were all hammered.

I try to find some good in all.

About Michael Anthony.. I went to see Alice In Chains open for VH in 1991, figured I'd hang around and see Van Halen, what the hell, ya know? Michael Anthony got a big solo, and I gotta tell you, I was blown away. He threw in something from about every style, including some serious jazz walking and bebop-sounding stuff. He may not be John Pattituci, but the guy can do more than just pump out 8th note roots.
Now, as far as overrated, I think the most overrated bass player in the world has to be.. ME! I've actually had people come up to me after shows and compliment me on my playing, but I know the truth. I suck. But I'm working on it.

People assume that what they see is the sum of one's abilities. I know Anthony plays Van Halen songs in the group. That doesn't mean he can't play anything else.

M Anthony is a solid player. Listen to his on the early albums.....

I've seen solo's he's done that are laughable...but his job is not to solo, it's a perk.

Originally posted by Brad Johnson
People assume that what they see is the sum of one's abilities. I know Anthony plays Van Halen songs in the group. That doesn't mean he can't play anything else.

...has Anthony played on anybody else's sessions? Has he played in any other environment outside of Van Halen?
If not, then MAYBE what we're hearing is all he can do.
Not that it's a big deal or that it even matters(to me); I'm just throwing my .02 out here(as usual).
...and while I'm certainly no authority, I preferred Roth's first post-Eddie band(w/ Sheehan, Bissonette, & Vai). From what little I've heard, it was apparent to me that this rhythm section could take their tunes "somewhere"(it starts with the drummer).
I dunno, I'm assuming that Van Halen's schtick was pretty much the same night after night. Again, IMO,...whadda I know.
One more tidbit...a non-bass playing friend(a Van halen fan)turned me onto a live video of Van Halen(bought commercially). He was really telling me how I'd be impressed with Anthony's solo. S***, c'mon! IMO, this was pure sonic BS(& I like a lotta "outside"/Free s***). Jaco, Hendrix, & even Santana can pull this kinda stuff off; whatever, it didn't float my boat.

And I'll mention this again('cause one day, somebody will take me up on it) ;)
If you have access to Chicago's FIRST album, check out Terry Kath's piece, "Free Form Guitar"...approximately 10 years BEFORE "Eruption". Play it for your guitar buds who think Eddie invented that stuff! :D

Just as it doesn't mean he can't play anything else it also doesn't mean he can. Beats me.

i cant beleive how many people think Jason Newsted is over rated!! I think hes great

I guess you've never heard the Tower of Strength album, and the totally wicked bass solo he did on it , good luck finding it, it's a very rare live album out of some European country, but luckily for me I got this bass solo, if any body gets a chance check this album and bass solo, I think its called Solo Jasona

I thought I'd jump in with my .02 here. Bands are all put together for a purpose, and that purpose doesn't always include getting the cream of the crop. Each player has a role to play, and a job to do. In the case of Van Halen (note the name of the band), Michael Anthony is there as a support player, and I think he's fairly solid. No, you don't always hear a lot of flashy stuff, but remember the name of the band. MA is where he needs to be, when he needs to be there. As far as Gene Simmons goes, he's a great steady foundation for Kiss. I don't think you'll ever hear him claim to be a virtuoso, but he knows what foundation is. I've been tempted to throw out Jason Newsted here. I have yet to hear anything from him that's anything but solid foundation, yet a lot of you rave about him ("the man listens to Mingus"....blah blah blah). All that taken into account, what has he done for Metallica. Even some of you state that his work with Flotsam and Jetsam was better. Does that make him over-rated, or under-stated?
Before jumping into these topics, it would help to look at the context of the band first. Besides, most virtuoso bassists (aside from Sheehan and Dimaeo :cool: ) end up doing some kind of jazz thing.....oops, that's a whole different topic!

Brad-
You gave me a headache with that reply!

you guys want proof that Newstead is a damn good bassist, dowload Scour Exchange( trust me its worth it!!!) and search for tower of Strength Bass solo!!!! I GUARANTEE it will change everybodys' mind about how underated Newstead is!!!!!!!!!!!!

Metallica just dosent want him to steal the show,

and if any body could tab this song out it would be greatly appreciated!!!!! good luck

The statement that most great players do a jazz thing does not fly. Charlie Watts did a Jazz thing. I would not point to his jazz attempt as proof he is a great player.

Originally posted by gweimer
I thought I'd jump in with my .02 here. Bands are all put together for a purpose, and that purpose doesn't always include getting the cream of the crop. Each player has a role to play, and a job to do. In the case of Van Halen (note the name of the band), Michael Anthony is there as a support player, and I think he's fairly solid. No, you don't always hear a lot of flashy stuff, but remember the name of the band. MA is where he needs to be, when he needs to be there.

I agree with you that bands are put together for some purpose. But, consider the purpose. Consider what was going on at the time the band was formed. In the case of Van Halen, do you think that Eddie and Alex set out to audition hundreds of bass players and happened to find the best one? I think not! He was just there at the right time, and that does NOT speak of his talent, or lack of thereof!

The guy's simply a piece of crap bass player and shouldn't be recognized as anything but that! And, call him solid if you want. Did you know that Eddie had to play half of his bass lines for him? What do you think some of rock's better bassists would do in that band, to keep things solid and tasteful? Do you think Pino Palladino, for example, would choose to play the songs as cheaply?

I have a hard time believing that a player such as Palladino would do anything but enhance the situation, in a way that MA does not! And, that would not merely "lay a foundation".

i am a little new blooded for really respecting McCartney...i truthfully think that the Bassists from Hendrix are what rose the bar for playing bass...

but while i am on the point...i think that Sam Rivers (Limp Bizkit) is a overrated Bass Player. He has a unique sound which is kool at first...until you hear ever other LB song out there and figure out that all his **** is basically the same...

Jason Newsted is probably the most overrated bassplayer of all time though. i mean it can't be easy trying to fill the shoe of someone like Cliff Burton(R.I.P) but he isn't much of a bass player.

Fieldy of Korn isn't really all that overrated...think about this...it is hard to get a regular bassline across when there are 2 tuned down guitars ripping up everything, you have to have a sound (slapping) that defers from that of the guitars. he is just trying to be unique and is a good bass player for what he is.

originally posted by RAM
What do you think some of rock's better bassists would do in that band, to keep things solid and tasteful? Do you think Pino Palladino, for example, would choose to play the songs as cheaply?
The same thing that Michael Anthony does? :rolleyes:

My point is that I don't think someone of that caliber would ever have gotten into Van Halen in the first place. Does Eddie play the bass parts because Anthony can't, or because Eddie decides he wants to? Remember who has the control in the band; do you think anyone wants potential differences in musical direction? Would you make the same statements about John Wetton on his many projects? His stint with Bryan Ferry and Uriah Heep weren't as stellar as King Crimson or UK, but he did what fit best.

Originally posted by DownCaster
"...i truthfully think that the Bassists from Hendrix are what rose the bar for playing bass."


Hendrix himself played bass, too; Billy Cox(Band Of Gypsies' days) was pretty happenin'; Noel Redding...hmmmm. Check out the LIVE AT THE BBC cds(especially the impromtu jam with Stevie Wonder); he may be an "OK" parts' player...he does seem to get lost when the time comes to stretch out, though(just my opinion).

Noel was as much a bass player as a cold salami sandwich

Noel Redding was a rhythm guitar player when Hendrix picked him up. I wouldn't be so harsh on him, after all, he DID get to play beside Hendrix!

Originally posted by JimK
Brad-
You gave me a headache with that reply!



Mission accomplished.:D

*dive!dive!dive!*

the number one overrated bass player is yes u guessed it F*ELDY!!! and umm that guy from limp biscut

IMO the most overrated bassist is... ME!

All women love me, I am called the god of Sound, I was invitated for gigs by BonJovi, Elton John, Dream Theater and some others.

I get so much money for just playing 1 note that I could buy Microsoft at once.

I am the reincarnation of Mozart on the bass but, hey!
that's not true...

Ok, so far this crap, don't take it for serious folks!

;)

Dominik

Four words
Les, Fieldy, and Flea*

*I'll possibly post reasons later.

I think Roger Waters and Paul McCartney are very overrated!!!

I read something in BP where David Gilmour said he played bass on some of the Pink Floyd tunes (i.e."Hey You" and
parts of "Animals")because Waters wasn't interested in
bass that much. I wonder if anyone can cite any specific examples of Jimi, EVH, or any other great guitarists playing bass on their band's records without our common knowledge. I'm not trying to be a wise guy or defend Redding or Anthony, I've just always been curious.

Originally posted by sgraham
I wonder if anyone can cite any specific examples of Jimi, EVH, or any other great guitarists playing bass on their band's records without our common knowledge. I'm not trying to be a wise guy or defend Redding or Anthony, I've just always been curious.

I can't quite name specific examples of where Michael Anthony's bass parts were actually played by EVH, but I can remember reading articles and interviews in various guitar magazines in the '80s where Eddie had said that. It may have even been in the early '90s...I can't remember.

Say what you will about Paul McCartney... but *FLEA* overrated?? I don't get it. While I'm not a huge Chili Peppers fan, I can't think of a single bassist in his genre with his talent. Take a Flea bass line out of a Chili Peppers song, and you've taken the heart out of it. Also, he has influenced and is influencing a whole new generation of bassists. He deserves the kudos!

Since I don't feel like going back to get the actual quote... Someone back there mentioned Fieldy as a good bassist because his part are "indistinguishable from the drum parts". And this is a good thing HOW? Hell, here I was I thinking that the DRUMMER was supposed to play the drum part. Silly me! Now, I don't listen to Korn or any other of these modern punk-wannabe bands, so I'll avoid making a blanket statement about their music or him as a bass player. BUT, if that thing about Fieldy playing right along with the drums is true, then I'm willing to call him sh!te just for that.

I'm not really a RHCP afficianado, either. BUT, I do think that Flea is waaaaaayyy overrated. I remember one of my friends telling me how great the line to Under the Bridge is. So I downloaded it. I listen to the song like twice, and I'm still thinking at the end, "Where's this amazing bassline, again?" Suffice to say, I was rather unimpressed. But RHCP sucks, anyway. Their only song worth listening to is Rollercoaster of Love. =) If they didn't dance around in their underwear so much, noone would know who they are.

(edited for accuracy and to make me less likely flame-bait. :))

[Edited by furtim on 09-24-2000 at 02:27 PM]

Hey man are you any better than the bassists you pass judgement on???!!! Les Claypool kicks ass! Why do think he get invited to a lot of guitar virutuoso gigs??? Please don't mention any new good but not that good hardrock bassists in the same sentence as the best of the best. The absolutely best... Mr Stuart Hamm though!

Name who you think is an overated Bassist. I personally think Claypool overplays. I know to some out there the faster you can play and the faster you can slap is considered great. I have alway admired the ability to hold down the bottom end and keep the groove.

Who cares?
Why do we have to think so negatively? If you don't care for a particular bassist, that's your own opinion.
Why don't we spend more time focusing on the positive?
What do we stand to learn from listing overrated bassists?

We all need a little yin with the yang to grow.

Please dont kill me for this... but Im not the biggest Victor Wooten fan. This guy whos been playing the bass for like 35 years burnt me one of his CDs and I didnt really like it.

Wooten plays too fast for me to enjoy his music, and its all just a bunch of super fast slapping and I cant really get into it. I know all you guys are gonna say I cant appreciate it because Im not a good bass player or whatever but I think its like those guitar shredders that play a million notes a minute and you just cant relate to the music. I think its fair to say this as constructive criticism...

I admire Wootens technical ability and sound. It fits what they are trying to do. I ahve been playing bass for 37 years and have never had the desire to play super fast or highly technical runs. If playing bass was in the Olympics he would have a gold medal, but like I said. It is more difficult to get the most out of one note. I still believe less is more!

Yeah I personally hate most Blink 182, and I also think Mark Hoppus has no reason to show up on so many "Great bassists" boards. (He is their bassist, right?) Oh well. He's nothing special.

I agree with the Blink comment.. the only punk bass player who gets any love from me is Mike Watt..

As for overrated bass players, I dunno.. I think that is everyone's own opinion.. I could tell ya who's underrated though.. but thats not the topic so I won't. I am not Wooten's biggest fan either but you gotta respect that level of talent.

Originally posted by lo-end
Please dont kill me for this... but Im not the biggest Victor Wooten fan. This guy whos been playing the bass for like 35 years burnt me one of his CDs and I didnt really like it....... I think its fair to say this as constructive criticism...

Mmm...

Which album did you listen to?

Victor Wooten plays complicated songs on his solo albums because he is trying to demonstrate his technical skills. I feel he is still quite musical when he plays his solos. You should try to listen to him in a band setting when he plays with his band, Bela Fleck and The Flecktones - this guy can funk and groove.

Most rock bass players form the 90s! HeHe!

No blink 182 yeah! Green days bass player,

I will probably get killed for this but id have to say flea! I mean yeah he is good but ive seen old dudes in small nasty night clubs that can funk flea to the grave! Wooten is awsome! You need to go to a bela fleck show and sit and watch him and you will have a much greater worship to him. Claypool is awsome for me because iam amazed and they finger tapping and ful chords he plays! Actually he doesnt do alot of slap! Niether does flea. Just sounds like it! Umm a bass player i think doesnt get enough is steffan from dave mathews band! Ohh and mike gorden!

Originally posted by Cogno
Name who you think is an overated Bassist. I personally think Claypool overplays.Do you want overrated, or one that overplays? I personally think that a lot of the bassists mentioned on these boards are overrated (Jaco). It would be easier for me to name a few that are underrated (Kip Winger).

Also, why do people post in these types of threads with negative comments? If you read the title and the first post in the thread and it's not something that interests you, don't post! It's like some of you are just trying to bulk up your post counts and the only thing that you can do to accomplish that, is put down someone's thread or individual post. If you can't say something nice...

Originally posted by eric atkinson
Most rock bass players form the 90s!

Hey what about John Myung
I reckon John Myung underplays.

This guy doesn't get enought solos and stuff. I want More Myung damn it. I love his solo on Metropolis Pt. 1

Lots of people say his tone sucks, but I spose he knows what he likes

Im sick of all of Blink's little desciples running around saying how great Mark Hoppus is when he's average at best. Otherwise I cant name anyone else who is overrated at all. Theres hundreds of underrated bassists though.

Chi Cheng from the Deftones! OH MY GOD does this guy suck IMHO :mad: he tunes to low C on a 4-string, and his tone suffers really badly live - plus playability on a string that floppy drops to about, oh let's say, ZERO! plus he thinks he's revolutionary because he "still plays without a pick and can still get heard even when there's two guitars both tuned really low" ... ahem, all he sounds like is a stupid rumble underneath this incoherent wall of guitar crap. he needs to get himself a 5-string, tune the B up to a C, and start playing with a pick. i think he's the sole reason that the Deftones' latest effort just ends up sounding like mess half the time.

Flea of RHCP

The Victor Wooten album I have is "A Show of Hands"

Show of Hands is probably the worst album to judge Wooten by. It was his first solo album and he clearly felt he had a lot to prove. Try What Did He Say or one of the Flecktones albums for something more representative of his playing.

(Ooh! First Post!!!)

Any rock bassist who overplays. Especially John Entwisle. I know I'm gonna get flamed for this, but he sucks. How lame can you be, seriously. He just plays below average basslines with bad 8th and 16th note runs and you guys think he's god.

Originally posted by *ToNeS*
plus playability on a string that floppy drops to about, oh let's say, ZERO!

I disagree... Manring hypertunes to at least that
low and maintains "playability".
And musicality.

Originally posted by FunkmastaJ
Any rock bassist who overplays. Especially John Entwisle. I know I'm gonna get flamed for this, but he sucks. How lame can you be, seriously. He just plays below average basslines with bad 8th and 16th note runs and you guys think he's god.

Well, there may be some truth to this, but your tone is so demeaning I am called to a modest defense of Entwistle. He was one who inspired me to
start bass as a kid, among others. He's made significant contributions to the art, did his part in expanding the role of the bass. Good tone. Held down what was essentially a rock trio, instrumentally speaking. Great energy, musically speaking. I certainly don't idolize him, but I wouldn't characterize his rep as "overrated". There's just plenty of folks who like his playing for what it is, IMO.

Furthermore, that fact that his licks are so pentatonic made them learnable to me, which is not altogether a bad thing.

I can't really think of a player who is globally overrated. A given special interest might consider the admiration another special interest has for a certain player as undeserved, but it's usually out of context. Jaco and Victor are often lobbed up there as being globally overrated, but I think it's just a reaction to the attention they get for genuinely innovative and musical accomplishments.

I guess one *area* where I feel like players are overrated, is when they develop a slap thing that's exciting rhythmically and just
the energy of it, but the player hasn't taken it beyond the E dorian whack. That begins to bore me. I see the attention folks get for that and sometimes I feel motivated to develop it so I can get some attention too, or think I've impressed someone in a music store, but I'm too hung up on harmony to make the effort to just whack.

How 'bout this, just for fun... McCartney: overrated as a bassist (but *not* as a musician overall). Legs?

rh

personally, i can't stand blink 182. how can you be pop-punk? how much of an oxymoron is that? i accidentally wrote this as another thread, but oh well. Anywho...blink is very overrated...sure they are kinda talented. they can actually play instruments, but they're not that great. i really don't like how they call themselves punk, but whatever. sorry blink fans!

ANOTHER "I DONT LIKE BLINK 182 THREAD" :mad: :rolleyes:

Originally posted by BassistJess
personally, i can't stand blink 182. how can you be pop-punk?

two words:

Sex Pistols

Especially John Entwisle. I know I'm gonna get flamed for this, but he sucks. How lame can you be, seriously.

:eek:
John Entwistle was probably the first ever bassist that actually used the bass for anything other then a background instrument. How many songs with bass solo's can you name that came before the Who?
Jim

haha uh i didn't mean for this to be an anti-blink board (although that's fine with me.) dave matthews is one of my top favorite bands, and that's coo that someone mentioned lessard. but he isn't THAT great. he plays very jazzy fast stuff, but doesn't really ever change his sound.

Originally posted by EString
Who cares?
Why do we have to think so negatively? If you don't care for a particular bassist, that's your own opinion.
Why don't we spend more time focusing on the positive?
What do we stand to learn from listing overrated bassists?

i can see your point, but there are many posts about people we all like, so he is entitled to post about those he doesnt like.

Originally posted by matteo6dmb
but he isn't THAT great. he plays very jazzy fast stuff, but doesn't really ever change his sound.

how does changing your sound have anything to do with how good a bassist you are?

I guess some of us on hear could be highly overated after all we hardly get to ever see eachother play. :D

Honestly though I think when I see bass ads with for instance someone like Tom Hamilton (Aerosmith) promoting the companies products. IMO that is the worst way to overrate someone and it turns me off of their products.

Originally posted by hewett


I disagree... Manring hypertunes to at least that
low and maintains "playability".
And musicality.
Manring knows how to make it work - Cheng, quite obviously, does not. that was a pretty stupid point to attempt to start an argument over, btw.

This is a rushed thing but I feel I have to defend such a great Bass Player like Les Claypool. Music is not a contest, it's people's life and their art.

Whoever reckons Les CLaypool is overrated, obviously is jealous of the fact that they are not as good as him.
He has written so many awesome Basslines. As for keeping a good groove, Les claypool has at least 10 albums, and he has kept a good groove throughout all of them. If you listen to any Primus album and you will learn how to have a good bottom end and create just an unbelievable groove Just listen to Kalamazoo on the Brown album and you will see how to play bass properly.

how are we to be sure that lessard has a wide range of playability if he never changes his sound?

Some nights I am the most over-rated bassist.

haha uh i didn't mean for this to be an anti-blink board (although that's fine with me.) dave matthews is one of my top favorite bands, and that's coo that someone mentioned lessard. but he isn't THAT great. he plays very jazzy fast stuff, but doesn't really ever change his sound.

Sit down and plop a cd in of dave mathews band and lets see how long it takes you learn a few of his songs! He is very complex and some times its very hard to tell untill you sit down and try it~! He is one of my fave bassist! He can also take a very simple bass line and make it just awsome to listen to! He has soul to his playing! You might be able to learn his song but you will never be able to play it like him.

Plus how often does a bass player at his age come around and just blow you away? I cant think of any reason in the damn world that steffan and blink 182 should ever be used in the same thread!

why is it that confrontational BS threads like this are what get the most newbies to post? i don't get it.

i mean, who cares if you're going to defend or attack someone's favorite/least favorite player. :rolleyes: ;)

i'd much rather learn about the newbies around here with some info about THEM. so how about it, newbies? let's hear about YOU.

oh, and les is fine as long as you keep him off of the fretless :eek: ;) :D

Originally posted by john turner
why is it that confrontational BS threads like this are what get the most newbies to post? i don't get it.

probably cos alot of them are trolls just waiting for the opportunity to flame something, (just one hypothosis)

i mean, who cares if you're going to defend or attack someone's favorite/least favorite player. :rolleyes: ;)

i dont

i'd much rather learn about the newbies around here with some info about THEM. so how about it, newbies? let's hear about YOU.

i agree

oh, and les is fine as long as you keep him off of the fretless :eek: ;) :D

just like Flea

Most over rated bassist. Tony Levin....Kidding. i would have to say Paul Mcartny

Originally posted by matteo6dmb
how are we to be sure that lessard has a wide range of playability if he never changes his sound?

maybe im stupid and just dont get this, but how does not changing your sound around have anything to do with your versatility, range of playablity? you can be great bassist and have lousy tone, or a mediocre one with great tone.

im sorry but blink 182 bassist SUCKS!all he does is play simple notes and boring lines.i mean i can think of 2 songs where he plays good bass.hey,what band is mike watt in?and a good punk bassist is matt freeman from Rancid.(look at my quote) download these songs by rancid to hear is good stuff:
sidekick
axiom
maxwell murder

John Entwistle was probably the first ever bassist that actually used the bass for anything other then a background instrument. How many songs with bass solo's can you name that came before the Who?
Jim [/B][/QUOTE

How bout James Jamerson? or even Paul McCartney?

How bout James Jamerson? or even Paul McCartney?

Jamerson is a different genre. McCartney was definately a pioneer, but the Who's 'My Generation', with its great bassline and solos come out in 1965. Did the early pre 1965 Beatles have anything like it? Im asking because Im not that familiar with the early Beatles, Im only into their later music. But as far as I know, 'My Generation' was the first real rock song that really made people sit up and take notice as the bass as a seperate entity and not a background instrument. That one song influenced so many other players in regards to how they approached their bass.
Jim

John Entwistle was probably my first big influence on bass.
Why is so much time spent talking about how much Flea, or Blink 182's bassist sucks anyway? I say, if you don't like these guys playing, don't waste your time listening to them. Listen to the guys and/or girls you like better.
Just my opinion though.

Cliff Burton is WAAAAAAAAAAAAAY way over rated

-T

What an interesting thread.I find it hard for anyone to feel Flea,Wooten,Claypool,Entwhistle,etc. are overrated.Of course I have only been playing bass for approx. 15 months,so it does`nt take too much to impress me.:p ;)

Having seen RHCP in concert,I must say Flea really is a stellar preformer/player.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinions...even if they ARE wrong!:p

Sit down and plop a cd in of dave mathews band and lets see how long it takes you learn a few of his songs! He is very complex and some times its very hard to tell untill you sit down and try it~! He is one of my fave bassist! He can also take a very simple bass line and make it just awsome to listen to! He has soul to his playing! You might be able to learn his song but you will never be able to play it like him.



dmb is my all time favorite band. i have all their released cds, and i know how complex stefan's lines are. i couldn't play them at all. and also, versatility has much to do with a person's skill. for instance, if one can make a real edgy sound come out clean and non-sloppy, therefore demonstrating their versatility, and versatility is an important factor in one's skill level. if that person can also play a nice muffled tone, but play it out, that is also great. lessard is usually just the underlying tones under his songs, until he bubbles up with some cool crap once in a while. his crush solo is cool too. but let's see some variation!

Alec John Such.:D

Hey, he was "ghosted" by Hugh McDonald on the records. That must say something about his playing...

I don't know man, those dudes may all suck but most of us still have day jobs.

~Andrew

Originally posted by Big Wheel
Alec John Such.:D

Hey, he was "ghosted" by Hugh McDonald on the records. That must say something about his playing...

alec's not all that bad, he did some decent work on slippery when wet and New Jersey IMO

I always have a problem with these types of discussions. It is so subjective, and I really hate when musicians say that so and so isnt that good, or all his stuff is so easy. You end up sounding like a conceited snob. Who cares. They are all making their living playing, the majority of us are not. I played in a band with a guitar player who would always think that everything we played had to be very complicated, thats fine for a couple of songs, but then it gets boring. Most people arent musicians and dont care how good someone is or how complex something is, all they care about is if it sounds good, and some of the most popular songs are very basic.
At least this not a who is the worst bassist of all time thread.

I feel the need to take up for Mark Hoppus. I am not a huge blink fan nor do I own any of their cds but I think what makes everyone like him is his presence as a performer and not his "great technical skills". There is a difference in being a great bassist and being a great musician.

If I had to pick an overrated bassist I would say Flea, but since I haven't seen the ratings then I don't know who is over-rated.:rolleyes: :D

Flea definitely... and also the Rhyno guy from Mudvane (I think).

Originally posted by bassistjedi


If I had to pick an overrated bassist I would say Flea, but since I haven't seen the ratings then I don't know who is over-rated.:rolleyes: :D

LOL Well,I got to see RHCP in concert and believe me Flea is the real deal!You have to admit he comes up with some really nice basslines.:D

What bassist do you think got the freeest ride by hooking into a band that took them to the top. Who lucked out the most in accordance with their abilities. My vote for luckiest bassist goes to

Micheal Anthony (Van Halen)

Runner up - the guy from Blink 182

I can't say I can hum any memorable bass line from an AC/DC album. Sure, the songs are straight-ahead rock&roll stuff that don't require anything beyond roots and 5ths on the bass. An easy gig for this bassist (don't know his name) and he got to see the world.

Most of the drummers I know think their drummer (Phill Rudd?) has it pretty easy too.

Don't get me wrong - I love to crank up some old AC/DC on the stereo once in a while. The songs are great, but the bassist sure doesn't stand out here. The guitar and vox are the featured instruments here.

Originally posted by CTHEOP
I can't say I can hum any memorable bass line from an AC/DC album. Sure, the songs are straight-ahead rock&roll stuff that don't require anything beyond roots and 5ths on the bass. An easy gig for this bassist (don't know his name) and he got to see the world.

Most of the drummers I know think their drummer (Phill Rudd?) has it pretty easy too.

Don't get me wrong - I love to crank up some old AC/DC on the stereo once in a while. The songs are great, but the bassist sure doesn't stand out here. The guitar and vox are the featured instruments here.

Come on, can you hear an AC/DC song without those solid 8th notes underneath? Can you imagine John Myung (Dream Theater) in AC/DC? It serves the purpose.

...it's the same with Michael Anthony. Someone's gotta hold it all down while Eddie's soloing!

I would say the bass player from Smashing Pumpkins. Did she even play on the records?

this thread has very little to offer in the way of valuable information and will eventually lead to flames.

Come on dudes, flea is soooo last year.

(+ I think Jaco is over rated, but he was a revolutionary)

My pick is that guy from Van Halen. They have a godlike guitar player, an excellent drummer, and David Lee Roth was a GREAT frontman, and then there's a bassist that plays two notes for an entire song. :confused:

Fieldy from KoRn uses no notes, just a random series of clicks, beat that.

Originally posted by drmike
Fieldy from KoRn uses no notes, just a random series of clicks, beat that.
that's probably just a leeeeetle bit unfair on the ol' FieLDsTeR, dude - i was listening to "iSsuEs" the other night and FiELdY actually plays some pretty groovy stuff. i cacked my dacks, so to speak.




~toebee :eek:

:D
Cacked your dacks, how Aussie is that:D

There are bassists that I'm not too fond of, but none that I hate. Although, just like you, I fail to see why Michael Anthony has "Legend" status also. I guess he was just part of a great group with great songs. I also must admit that I hate bassists that play fretless on one token song, just so when they get interviewed, they can say, "Yeah, on that particular song, I played a fretless bass." :rolleyes:
Whoop de damn doo!
I many takes did you need?

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Andrew Dunbar
[B]I don't know man, those dudes may all suck but most of us still have day jobs.

I AGREE WITH U !

I'd say Wooten. The guy's got chops, but I want to puke after I listen to him for more than half an hour. His stuff with Bela Fleck is awful, in my opinion *not his playing, but the music itself*. I listened to Flight of the Cosmic Hippo once and wish never again to hear it.

the guy from Ac/dc, maybe if I throw a brick at hime he'll play different notes.

>>> the guy from Ac/dc


Is he supposed to play some lighting-speed fretless arpeggios behind all the chords?! Man, you'd think he was the winner of "Bassist of the Year" each year. Everyone slags Cliff but fact is that he rules! Damn solid and appropriate for the song, which is what we all should be.

I was jamming along just last night to the "Flick Of The Switch" album and had a blast. Try it, you might like it.

But then again, you can "love to hate" anyone you want of course!

Gene Simmons

Jason Newsted and the guy from alient ant farm

Originally posted by warwicknut
I fail to see why Michael Anthony has "Legend" status also

I fail to see why he diserved a cover story in Bass Player!

I disagree with some of you. Michael Anthony and the dude from AC/DC did what they needed to do in their given situations. Not every bassist, or every musician for that matter, needs to be a technical virtuoso. (How many of us on this site are?) Whole Lotta Rosie or Mean Streets would sound awfully stupid with Michael Manring style tapping, Wooten style slapping or Jacoesque frantic stacatto runs. In some instances playing nothing but an open A is all and will forever be all that is necessary.

I don't hate bassists(I don't see why anyone does), but I do hate the lines that they write for their band(s).

Paleale said it all... Michael Anthony and Cliff Williams are functioning in a totally supportive role and doing it nicely. Bill Wyman is no technical whiz, played simple, eloquent parts and no one is slagging him. Even the greats play simple parts when called for, (Larry Graham - Everyday People, James Jamerson - My Girl)... There's a talent there as well...

-robert

P.S. Okay Mr. Anthony, where's my $5 ? :D

P.S. Okay Mr. Anthony, where's my $5 ? :D [/B][/QUOTE]


If you get it I want at least $2.50. :D

no good can come of this











but my pick is hoppus :rolleyes:

I love to hate...well, Jaco. So he only used 4 strings, blah blah, cry me a river...then build a bridge and GET OVER IT.

On the other hand, he was pretty darned good...maybe I just hate Jaco as an excuse for 4 string purists...

overrated- Hugh McDonald (Bon Jovi)
I find he plays the same obvious clichéd fills in every song he does.

first of all, I was surprised there was a chi cheng diss up on here. wow, that guy is really cool. getting a 5 string and playing with a pic would ruin the deftones, his tones are sweet even if they are tuned down to C. He has some really groovy lines, and his band is great.

second of all, mark hoppus. Im shocked to see the lack of intellegence shown here. obviously, mark isnt a great bassplayer. obviously, mark isnt the great technical player. Mark is a song writer and a vocalist before a bassplayer. there is no way you can tell me he is not a good song writer or a good vocalist. just listen to how much he's improved on the new stuff. bad song writers dont sell millions world wide. his stuff is catchy, and has a hook. alot of people dont understand that here. just because something is hard to play, doesnt mean its good, so in the same sence, just because something is easy, doesnt make it bad. ignorance... :(

the bassplayer from slipknot and mudvayne are very overrated in my opinion, but Im very biased because I dont enjoy their bands. they play fast, woohoo, you dont have to praise them just because of some chops.

Okay, I understand that everybody can name at least one bass player that they don't like, but that doesn't mean that the person is a bad bass player or that they are overrated. As far as I'm concerned, all that matters in bass playing is making a song sound good... period. I've heard complex bass lines that sound horrible and I've heard incredibly simple bass lines that sound great and really fit the song. There's no need to be knocking other bass players' skills just because you don't like the bass player or the band.

Ok, if its now bassists we dont particularly like, but dont think are overrated...

I have never really liked Jaco. Its quite obvious that he is one of the greatest bassists of all time, his stuff is technically brilliant, but musically, it just doesnt sound good, and isnt that the point of music?

I also really dislike players who go overboard on slapping. IMO, it is a bad sound, technically is is one of the more difficult techniques, but bass is all about the bottem end and keeping the groove, where does high pitched slapping sounds come into it? It kind of defeats the purpose of playing bass. And dont get me started on popping, a more ridiculous sound has never come out of a musial instrument.

Thats just what I think, though I do realise the tremendous amount of talent involved in such playing.
Jim

Originally posted by the-lizard-king
Ok, if its now bassists we dont particular