hey. i have a consistent problem of stage fright and just simply get nervous when i play for a small group of people. How do you guys deal with stage fright? what do you think of? any tips?
thank ya!

beer.

Once the first song starts I have other things to think about.

guess I'm lucky, don't have any.

I get horrible stage fright, but it becomes more manageable the more I play in front of people.

There's no quick trick to ending stage fright. It comes with experience. If you consistently put yourself in situations where you'll get nervous, it won't be such a big deal.

Channel that energy into pure stoke! Get pumped and focuse everything you have into putting on the best show you can. Be high energy and the audience will be high energy back. Dont be nervous of messing up be stolked your playing a show and people are there to listen and You wanna give them the best time ever. The audience feeds off you and you feed off them.

I agree with Paul. The more you play for others and put yourself in the positions that make you nervous the more comfortable you will be with playing for people. Then when you feel yourself getting nervous you will understand how to overcome it.

When you are performing try not to think about the fact that people are listening to you and just focus all your attention on the music. My best performances tend to happen when I completely forget about the fact that I am playing for people.

The better prepared the music the less likely you are to be nervous and even if you are still nervous you will be less likely to mess up. I am usually the most nervous when I know something isn't prepared very well.

As I've become more accomplished and more experienced over the years, my own performance anxiety has gone away. In addition I now play with more accomplished, more experienced musicians and I know I can trust them on stage. They will do fine and that frees me up a good deal. I do note a bit of anxiety around longer bass solos, but they don't come up often and I generally prepare them well in advance. I play folk, bluegrass and blues. I never face a solo audition. I imagine such an event could freak me out because of the competitive setting. My wife has a doctorate in performance piano. She describes performance anxiety and this astonishes me. The preparation she puts into a piece is extensive. I would think she would be past stage fright by now.

I am a practicing therapist in a community mental health setting. I have not had much experience in music related stagefright, but I have worked with many patients around specific anxieties. Some brief, solution focused psychotherapy can be helpful. Some folks use cognitive behavioral modalities. Look into one or two sessions of Eye Movement Desensitization and Reprocessing (EMDR) for a quick fix. Google it for a description. Other folks have talked to their primary care providers and recieved anxiolytic medications in extreme cases.

Mostly, I find that I am more relaxed and less anxious because I play for fun. I enjoy it. If I didn't enjoy it, I would likely give it up.

Couple of things I learned here:
People watching you would love to be in your position and they are people just like you.
Eyecontact with people you know,gice them a blink,this would relax you a bit. ;)
Also look at your band mates,give them a little smile,they'll smile back,comforts both you and them.
Know the song wery well,If you know what you're playing no reason to be afraid.
The last thing,people came here to have fun,so did you,then HAVE FUN! :bassist:

I usually have the fear right when I go on.. Its a natural thing, but you have to learn how to control it. Controlled breathing really helps you stay calm.

I also Sing Opera (not now since i'm on the road) but My first Opera I was so Nervous I could barely talk.. I took a bit of whiskey and some honey (which is really gross btw) and drank it down. It was about half of an ounce of whiskey. After the first aria I was fine.

Yeah, prepare the material well. If you can play it and not think about it, that's the best. I usually find that when I am thinking "don't screw up this part" to myself, that's usually when I do.

Another thing I find helpful is visualizing the show. Visualize where you will be onstage and in relation to the other musicians. Imagine the audience and how you'll interact so when show time comes, you've "seen" it before and are more comfortable with it. If it's a venue you've never played before and never been to, if possible, go visit it to get familiar with it.

You can also try practicing in front of a mirror. It will help you focus on something else in front of you and to get some stage presence going (depending on what type of gig it is).

And above all, try to relax and have fun! By the second song, the fright will go away and you'll be more relaxed.

Try not to think too much. If you know your part and you feel your band is up to the gig, then there is no reason to be concerned.

If you don't know your part or you don't feel your band is up to the gig, fix those issues.

Finally, remember that the crowd is really on your side and wants you to succeed. They are not there to judge you, they are there to see you have fun so that they can have fun. So have fun! Try to focus on the fact that you get the privilage of being paid to have fun, put a big old silly grin on your face, let the music move you around and enjoy yourself!

Let's get this straight.... This inquiry is in the Orchestral Auditions section. It specifically addresses anxiety around audition. Right?

There's some great advice above. I'll add a bit, though, just trying to reword some of it as to how I think about it:

The single most powerful thought for me is the fact that the audience is rooting for you to 'make their moment'. They really want you to do well. Nobody's sitting around waiting for you to blow it.

A visualization that can really help is to recognize all of the energy that you're feeling and and picture yourself as a turnbuckle for it; a sort of lightening rod for the room's energy and what you do with it is collect it and turn it around right back into the room.

While doing the above, I just let these ideas run like a process in the background and then put myself in the 3rd person and listen to the music coming out and let it mesmerize me.

Although I don't suffer stage fright, I can get self-concious and nervous at times (great players in the audience -- and I need gigs....), and if I apply the above ideas I loosen right up and do fine.

What I like to do before a big concert is arrive atleast 2 hours before the show begins. Tune my bass, warm up for about 45 minutes just doing Petracchi to get my fingers nimble. I then like to go for a walk, clear my head. Don't eat anything too big before a show. When it's about 45 min to show time I usually get dressed, take my bass upstairs to the concert hall, do a fine tune and then take it out on stage. 15 minutes prior to showtime I like to be completely by myself, relax, breathe in and out. This is what I do pretty much everytime, it hasn't failed me yet. Especially when you have 11 other bassists breathing down your neck, just waiting for you to slip up :)

I get horrible stage fright, but it becomes more manageable the more I play in front of people.

There's no quick trick to ending stage fright. It comes with experience. If you consistently put yourself in situations where you'll get nervous, it won't be such a big deal.
Agreed. It's definitely an "as-you-go" kind of thing. I still remember the first time I played live -- I was doing a solo thing on slab, and my hands were shaking so badly I couldn't get my tapped harmonics out. There's a lot of things that help battle stage fright, and I find the most effective is knowing you're on the ball tonight, the group is responsive and swinging. As long as I know we're a well-practiced, well-rehearsed group, it doesn't matter who's in the audience, because you can almost ignore them and just have a killer time with your buddies on stage.

i used to get really bad stage fright but lately i am starting not to worry so much.

the thing that really made me nervous was the thought of making a mistake and someone noticing it, but after a while i began to realise that if i made a mistake and kept my cool (i.e. not making a face) most people outside of the band wouldnt notice it.

so after i realised that people wernt noticing my mistakes as long as i was cool about it i stopped getting so nervous.

of course there is still the thing that i am in front of people performng but as long as i am confident in the musicians i am playing with i aint bothered so much about that, cos after all they are there to have a good time and see you play not shout at you (well most of the time anyway :D )


Dave

oops! - I guess that is a draw-back of using the 'new posts' option... I am sorry. I was not paying attention... (slinking back to the rock 'n' roll silly little cover band world)

Someone once told me the mark of a good musician is the ability to play through mistakes. The great Doc Watson suggests that if you're a fast enough player, you can take back the bad notes. If you're not that fast, you can just repeat the note the next time it comes around and folks will think you've done it on purpose. Of course, at an orchestral audition the small audience will be very familiar with the peice and may even have a score on hand for a review. They will be accompished musicians, there will be a great deal of pressure and your livelihood might depend on performance....

Personally, I would avoid such auditions like the plague.

I think we need more information. I would suggest that playing Jazz with a band and playing solo classical repertoire, particularly for orchestral auditions, are two very, very different things.

I don't typically play Jazz, but when I have, I haven't felt at all self-conscious. When I play in orchestras or in chamber ensembles, I usually don't have any issues. If there's someone else on stage, I'm able to communicate with them and make music.

As a soloist, I can't do that. As soon as I go on stage, I know virtually everyone is looking at me and ignoring the pianist. I wish I could make "chamber music" out of what I'm playing, but typically the accompanist doesn't know the music well enough to be looking up a lot. The only way to counter this, in my opinion, is experience. Never turn down an offer to go in front of an audience.

I've heard bananas help. I usually eat one 30 minutes before an audition/recital and I haven't had any debilitating nervousness since I've started.

+1 on solo auditions/recitals being a completely different animal from playing in an ensemble. I think it is even more different for us bassists since we are usually in "the shadows" as far as the audience is concerned. The first time I played a solo for a scholarship audition, I had barely played any classical bass, but I thought it would go well since in my past experience on slab, being nervous had given my performances a welcomed "boost." Not so much on double bass, that adreneline that had gave me a boost on electric now made my bowing arm less predictable than a roulette wheel and in all it was just a bad experience.

Since then, I practically force people to listen to me play before auditions or recitals. If its in prep for auditions, I ask my impromptu audience to look disinterested and take REAL NOTES about my playing to give to me when I'm done. This is especially useful if they know something about music or string playing. You can also ask your teacher to have his/her next student come in early to listen to you run through one of your pieces; that really works well when you don't know the student very well, he/she could be thinking you completely suck!

Overall, nothing prepares you for performing like performance. Dont be afraid to play for anybody and everybody.

I don't typically play Jazz, but when I have, I haven't felt at all self-conscious...As a soloist, I can't do that...Could your case be that where you put your feeling of importance/self-worth is where you tend to get self-conscious?

I get very, very shaky and unpredictable in solo/audition situations. One time, I went to extremes to eliminate my nervousness for an audition, but it worked. For an entire week before this audition I would ask two things from my family and friends:

1. Be my audience
2. Be as annoying and distracting as possible.

While playing my solo, my audience of usually 5 or more people would make annoying, spasmodic noises. Some people would even throw things around (not near the bass of course, just in my field of vision). I asked people to pinch and poke me while I play, sometimes taking away the music while doing it. Doing this desensitized me to otherwise distracting variables within and outside myself. It worked like a charm.

I suggest you try it. If you can play amidst Jumanji type chaos, then you can manage an audition.

The single most powerful thought for me is the fact that the audience is rooting for you to 'make their moment'. They really want you to do well. Nobody's sitting around waiting for you to blow it.



Agreed. Always picture the audience as your friends. Convince yourself that they want you to do well.

Also, you can easily fool yourself into gaining better self confidence. When you feel nervous:work to get rid of it. Repeat to yourself something like this: "I am good, and I know my ****!" After a while,you'r going to believe it...

Off course, experience will help you. But to many classical musicians - that isn't enough. They turn to medication in order to "get rid of the problem." That will, however, just get rid of the symptoms rather then the reason behind..

But there are plenty of resources out there who can help anyone with stage-fright to fight their problems. One place to start is, as I described above, to "fool" yourself into gaining better self confidence.

As some have stated, there is "medication" out there. I consider it to be a "performance enhancing drug" which like most performance altering drugs, is a shortcut and doesn't really do you any good in the long run.

According to the ISB, 75% of bassist at major auditions admit to taking Beta Blockers.

According to the ISB, 75% of bassist at major auditions admit to taking Beta Blockers.

I've never had that problem, (stage fright) But, in real bad cases, a good medical fix is to go to your Doc and ask him for a one time prescription for Paxil. It's actually an anti-depression drug, but they say it works wonders for public speakers and people in general that have stage fright issues.

i dont get stage fright.

"performance enhancing drugs" my ass. They don't "enhance" anything. Some people are absolutely amazing players but their nerves are the only thing get in the way. Some people are not like that. For those that have problems with nerves, beta blockers only reduce the excess adrenaline being released in to the bloodstream that causes the shaking; an excess that people without stage fright don't even have to deal with.

Beta blockers are not like steroids in that they make you better than you actually are. I feel that if you're going to spend 2-3 months working your butt off for an audition and your nerves are the only thing (other than someone better than you) that could potentially keep you from getting the job (and paying rent), then you would be stupid to not use them.

Maybe if you absolutely can't train or channel your nerves into positive performance, but I wouldn't recommend Inderal to a young performer without first exhausting all other options.

wow! thanks for all of the great replies..this helped a lot

What I like to do before a big concert is arrive atleast 2 hours before the show begins. Tune my bass, warm up for about 45 minutes just doing Petracchi to get my fingers nimble. I then like to go for a walk, clear my head. Don't eat anything too big before a show. When it's about 45 min to show time I usually get dressed, take my bass upstairs to the concert hall, do a fine tune and then take it out on stage. 15 minutes prior to showtime I like to be completely by myself, relax, breathe in and out. This is what I do pretty much everytime, it hasn't failed me yet. Especially when you have 11 other bassists breathing down your neck, just waiting for you to slip up :)

When you say "big concert", do you mean a solo recital or do you mean a concert where you might have a few big solos? Or for that matter, is this just your normal pre concert routine?

As some have stated, there is "medication" out there. I consider it to be a "performance enhancing drug" which like most performance altering drugs, is a shortcut and doesn't really do you any good in the long run.

I see what you're saying, but do you feel the same way playing something like Heldenleben in a section as you do when you're put on the spot in a big audition? I don't think anyone's really looking to point fingers at the next Barry Bonds of the orchestral world...besides, winning the audition is only part of the battle. If someone wins an audition that doesn't deserve it, chances are they'll get what they deserve when they're up for tenure...

When you say "big concert", do you mean a solo recital or do you mean a concert where you might have a few big solos? Or for that matter, is this just your normal pre concert routine?

I do this before every concert, whether it be solo or orchestral. I'm more of an orchestral player myself, I love being in a section. The repertoire we had this year had quite a few bass solo's so I was put on the edge.

Berg Violin Concerto
Mahler Symphony No. 2
Stravinsky's Rite of Spring.


I really have to be on my A-game for the opera orchestra, where there's only 3 of us. Very challenging stuff, we did Mozart's Figaro, Nicolai's Merry Wives. Next year we're doing a Johann Strauss Operetta, and the Rape by Britten.

I think it's also important to realize that when you're a student (if this is your case), or even professional it's hard to make it through a piece being completely flawless (depending on your standards.) I've definetly made some errors this year, stuff that has made the section and the conductor give me looks, but it's important to accept that mistakes happen and to not let it faze you. Afterall, better to make them now vs. when you're in a pro orchestra. It's a good idea going into a performance accepting your flaws versus dreading them.

Maybe if you absolutely can't train or channel your nerves into positive performance, but I wouldn't recommend Inderal to a young performer without first exhausting all other options.

Exactly.

Beta-Blockers isn't really dangerous. My father uses them every day because of his blod pressure - and so does alot of people.

But there are other opportunities that should be tried first. Medication removes the symptoms of higher adrenaline, but not the reason behind. Almost everyone can learn to control their nerves, and they should try that before using medication.

Let's get this straight.... This inquiry is in the Orchestral Auditions section. It specifically addresses anxiety around audition. Right?

coffee shop shows, small clubs, stadiums, recitals, orchestral auditions...
whatever:

beer.


or whatever your drink.


:bassist:

this http://www.innergameofmusic.com/books/bo_inner.html
book helped me a lot.
i can highly recommend it

I see what you're saying, but do you feel the same way playing something like Heldenleben in a section as you do when you're put on the spot in a big audition? I don't think anyone's really looking to point fingers at the next Barry Bonds of the orchestral world...besides, winning the audition is only part of the battle. If someone wins an audition that doesn't deserve it, chances are they'll get what they deserve when they're up for tenure...

You've got a good point there as far as section vs solo playing..or even playing exerpts solo as opposed to playing those exact same excerpts within the bass section. I guess it just bothers me that while I spend a good chunk of my preperation time conditioning my nervous response, someone else who uses a beta blocker uses that time to continue to fine tune their actual playing, etc. I was also basically taught to believe that adreneline is an asset to be harnessed, not an enemy to be defeated. I'll concede that it's not neccesarily performance enhancing, but I still have issues with it being "abused" or used as a crutch (not to say there aren't people who absolutely need it).

I'm relativelhy new to jazz bass but played alot of classical piano (about 15 years) since I was a kid and done my share of recitals. Today, I'm starting to play out more often now, going to open jams at bars and jamming with friends and sometimes plucking a little bit for non-musical friends and what not. I do get stage fright and nervousness, and I think that stems from an egotistical idea of "needing to impress". This "need" virtually tightens me up more than I already and and constricts any natural flow. I think this is the same thing as "interference" that they talk about in the "Inner Game of Music".

Nowadays, I stop focusing on the audience. Even if I'm up on stage, I pretty much block them out. I don't make eye contact with anyone in the audience and just focus of the people I'm working with. When I perform now I play for me and for my enjoyment first (keeping in mind that I enjoy making the band sound good). If I can get to the point where I like what I'm playing, I start getting more and more confident and into the groove of the music I'm putting out. This just keeps growing like a snowball and becomes a ton of fun.

I wish I had realized this insight for myself years ago. It would've made all those recitals alot more fun than alot of stress during the performance and self-loathing afterward.

Medication removes the symptoms of higher adrenaline, but not the reason behind. Almost everyone can learn to control their nerves, and they should try that before using medication.

The above quote is very important to underline.

Inderal/BetaBlockers do not make you "un-nervous" - you're still nervous in the brain, and that's what counts.

You have to practice Performing to get good at Performing.

I do this before every concert, whether it be solo or orchestral. I'm more of an orchestral player myself, I love being in a section. The repertoire we had this year had quite a few bass solo's so I was put on the edge.

Berg Violin Concerto
Mahler Symphony No. 2
Stravinsky's Rite of Spring.

No I definitely didn't mean that in a negative way, it was pure curiosity. I find that with my schedule with school it's not such a big deal to walk out on stage 20 minutes before a concert to warm up having already played between 2-4 hours that day on top of a dress rehearsal that morning. However, if I haven't played that day at all, I can see that routine being a good thorough warm up.

i dont get stage fright.

Oh.

I am a psychologist with training in treating anxiety with behavioral techniques. Another approach to consider when dealing with stage fright is systematic desensitization. This approach teaches the client a skill called progressive muscle relaxation. Once this skill is learned, the client then is gradually desensitized to whatever stimulus is causing anxiety, which would be performing in this case, while feeling the sensation of relaxation. The stimuli is first presneted by way of visual imagery, that is, the person simply imagines the event causing anxiety. This can progress in a number of ways, all they way up to what's called in vivo desensitization, in which the person works on relaxation in the actual environment that causes anxiety.

Pros: well-supported with research, more time-efficient than many 'talk' therapies, focuses on 'here-and-now,' once skill can be learned, it can be applied to many different situations, gives a more permanent solution as opposed to medication

Cons: is not a quick fix, requires seeing a behavior therapist (which can be hard to find), requires almost daily work at home until problem is resolved

I am obviously biased, but systematic desensitization is a very effective technique for specific anxieties, such as stage fright, fear of dental appointments, etc. The tradeoffs are minimal compared to the skill that one learns as a way of managing anxiety. As a student in training, I worked with a professor at my university who struggled with stage fright when playing solo, and the results were positive.

Despite my bias toward behavioral techniques, I feel overall that psychotherapies and behavioral therapies are much more effective over the long haul than band-aiding the problem with medication. Medication definitely has its place, and there is no shortage of cases where people have found medication to be very effective. The most important thing is to be educated about as many options as possible and to make an informed decision about what is right for you.

Jim

Do you include Eye Movement Desensitization and Retraining as one of the systematic desensitization techniques you mention in your post?

i close my eyes...

when it happens, i feel like anxiety is caused more by the people i am playing with than the people i am playing for

I met a Vegas singer when I was playing in a band in high school in a galaxy far far away........anyway, he told me he always got a little nervous before he went on...someone told him to "pretend everyone in the audience was naked"....that would make him laugh and he would relax and have a good time.:hmm:

Just play the bass like if it were the very last time you are allowed to do it, it will fill you with joy and will bring the best of yourself.

hey. i have a consistent problem of stage fright and just simply get nervous when i play for a small group of people. How do you guys deal with stage fright? what do you think of? any tips?
thank ya!
i drink beer

i am easily the worse player in my band...so about 60% of the mistakes are mine. thats what makes me nervous...not knowing what i am going to screw up. :)

everyone in my band, including me, is really good at just going with the flow though and we are all tolerant of each other.

even still, about 4 hours before any show i get very nervous. if i have access to my bass i will run through the set list. otherwise i go through it in my head. i also like to go out and meet as many of the audience as i can before hand to develop a friendly relationship with them.

most importantly, i force my self to breathe. big deep breaths. after awhile i hit a state of calmness and once i am ready to play i am able to do my thing...mistakes and all. :)

i hit a state of calmness and once i am ready to play i am able to do my thing...mistakes and all. :)

i think thats an important thing, to accept mistakes

kwd,

I am not familiar enough with EMDR to really give an opinion. However, I googled it after reading boombloom's posts and found a very informative website about it, including citations of many research articles supporting its use. From what I read, it seems to use some similar basic principles, although all of the research that was cited supported its use for trauma and post-traumatic stress disorder, which is an anxiety disorder but very different from stage fright.

this http://www.innergameofmusic.com/books/bo_inner.html
book helped me a lot.
i can highly recommend it

For me, the book was "Effortless Mastery: Liberating the Master Musician Within", by Kenny Werner.

It's an awesome book. I can't recommend it highly enough. If I could make every musician read it, I would. It has revolutionized my ability to prepare, practice and perform music.

i didnt realize this was in the double bass forum. :) my first post here.

all of the aforementioned hints and info still apply though.

i'd like to add that sometimes if i am in a negative mood...that negativity will definitely be projected from the stage. i go through a routine (whilst breathing) of telling my self that this is going to be a great show and that we (the band) are going to blow the doors off this place. etc etc.

For me, the book was "Effortless Mastery: Liberating the Master Musician Within", by Kenny Werner.

It's an awesome book. I can't recommend it highly enough. If I could make every musician read it, I would. It has revolutionized my ability to prepare, practice and perform music.

+1
I really enjoyed Kenny's philosophy..

I was kind of disturbed about all the chatter concerning 'buttocks' on the CD, though.

I embrace it. :eyebrow: I pretend I'm in the 8th grade, suck, & am playing in front of a bunch of jocks & their girlfriends, who will soon beat me mercilessly for sucking so bad. Works for me.:)

Edit: I also just realized I'm in DB.:ninja: Oh, well- for me, it still applies...

When preparing for my Humber College recital (many moons ago) I found playing in front of people close to me helped get me comfortable with my program. Back then I was terribly nervous about playing in front of people, especailly my college peers. Mostly a self esteem confidence issue rather than ability.

These days I have less of an issue with nervousness having played shows in front of close friends in small rooms to a couple of 1000 people in a festival situation. While I don't have to depend on my playing for my living I have played with a number of players who do. The best advice I have been given was with a singer who has been around a long time.

One show I made a number of errors. Not huge but it bugged me. I went to the singer after the show to apologize. All he said was, "Get over it, I'm not going to baby sit you. If you learned something from it then move on." It wasn't said in any kind of condescending or critical tone just matter of fact and relates to his next comment.

His best advice which really has helped me relax and enjoy playing music with everyone is, "It's just music, nobody dies." That really helps. Yes, I want to perform well every time and strive for perfection but that mantra helps me not worry about it.

I am very lucky to be able to play an instrument and know that many others would love to be able to do the same. It also helps me relax to know that I am giving people something positive, something entertaining, something pleasureable and distracting from the day to day routine of life.

It seems that this new attitude of mine helps the auduence enjoy the show since I appear more relaxed and to be having a good time so there time spent is better as well.

Cheers.

His best advice which really has helped me relax and enjoy playing music with everyone is, "It's just music, nobody dies." That really helps. Yes, I want to perform well every time and strive for perfection but that mantra helps me not worry about it.

This is super important and it is the voice of experience. The more time you spend on a stage -- any kind of stage -- the more comfy you are with the idea of surviving ANYTHING that can happen up there. Well, survive anything short of a gunshot wound, or poisoning or something like that.

In addition to playing hundreds of musical gigs, I've spent a bunch of time as an actor, a teacher and corporate speaker. There are lots of times when I get nervous -- good nervous, except I'm like Ray and get a bit frazzled when a high power player enters the room -- but experience teaches you practically nothing can happen up there that can sink you. I have in the past fallen on my ass, done a set with my fly wide open, sneezed all over my axe, totally gassed a solo, lost my train of thought while presenting -- all of this stuff happens and none of it was the end of any kind of world we might define.

I do see a special case, though, for classical players and their bloody auditions. I can hardly think of a structure MORE oriented to attacking a player's nerves and confidence than the audition. The audience is expert, they know the material, they are looking only at you, they are there to judge you, they are there to "validate" your years of effort and training with employment... I don't blame people for thinking about trying all kinds of things. The one thing that truly works, though, is experience. If you can't get enough musical gigs to get stage time, try other stuff. Sing on stage -- karaoke, open mic night. Get an acting gig in a community theatre. Join ToastMasters and start making speeches if you need to. Audience time, audience time, audience time...

Looking at the back wall helped me get over my fears. My eyes look straight out, not down, so I never saw the crowd.

My experience has been that no amount of psychological games will compensate for the actual activity of performing. I've tried all sorts of things, but playing in as many stressful, nerve-wrecking situations as possible is the only way I've found to get better at doing it.

I don't stay on stage and therefore don't get stagefright.
I have wireless. I get of stage and give the punters the fright.

We still do it no matter what, because there is that 'thing' that drives us and overrides our fears to put ourselves 'through it' every time.
Paul McCartney (my friend was his tour manager), to Donny Osmond have all been there. Paul waiting for the night to get darker before going out on stage, and Donny stood there on stage in his later career suddenly realising that everyone was 'watching' him, and he folded up.
What does Ozzie do in his private tent before HE goes on. They ALL suffer from it !!!
It is called 'fight or flight syndrome' and you have to face the music to beat it, or run away (Scuse the pun).
All it is, is 'super' energy that is not chanelled until you actually get well into the gig. Then it becomes a High and you want more at the end of the gig and it is hard to 'wind down'. You HAVE actually controlled it in the end !!!
That is why you shake. Once you understand it, it then becomes easier to control and ignore.
Use it!!!!!!
Breathe mental fire on the audience like a Dragon right from the start, and lean into them (you are there to entertain after all and they want YOU to do it for them)
I play bass but have done solo singing and have had to walk off stage before now. I did not know what was happening and as I had all the symptoms of flu. Sweats, weakness, short breath etc. and a nurse followed me onto the toilets to see if I was ok whilst I was splashing cold water on my neck and face. She told me it was a panic attack. Same thing !!!
My own fear was deep rooted and I got some councelling and beta blockers to help get through the phase.
I set myself BIG hurdles to 'make myself 'do it', like an X-Factor audition, a parachute jump ( and I'm terrified of heights), and not avoiding nervous situations (to easy to walk away). Attack it !!!!
Anyone can DO anything, and HAVE DONE IT!!!
Believe me I have had it bad and even walked out of supermarket before now with nerves, and have stayed at home to avoid situations.
It is all the same thing !!.
Adrenaline build up is a main cause (fear of fear) and you can get rid of it by running round the block or push-ups before you go on.
Prepare well. Be well rehearsed (even your ad-libs). Sound check well and DO NOT ARGUE or get upset before a gig.
A true pro just does it and you have to think 'pro' ( you are being paid after all !!!). 'Act confident' and you WILL be confident even if you are crumbling inside.
I know a famous UK TV comedian who did his act 10 mins after he was told his mother had died. THAT'S 'COOL' for you !!!
A good tip is to walk around the audience and make a few friends before you go on, and then you have something to focus on and smile at, and creates a warm feeling of rapport.
Get a roll of small stickers made (of the band name) and go round sticking them on folk. ( Some chicks offer you thier boobs to stick em on. How cool is that !!!) You are a hero before you have played a note.
It is a war that you may never win, but break it down into small battles and win every one, every time.
If you make a cock up, laugh it off and don't get sucked into feeling insecure because other performers are there. They are insecure too, and remember that they also make them and it makes them feel better to see you do it too.
Remember this !! If they are at your gig, why aren't they out playing. A good answer if you get heckled.
They have actually come to see/steal the 'one lick' that you may be able to teach them to add to thier own arsenal of tricks. Take it as a compliment.
Don't be a whimp and give it some anxt.
Study the pro's. Copy them and whatever they do, as they are still on stage in whatever form of entertainment. It is NEVER easy, it takes EFFORT !!!!!!!!!!
When I see an audience, I just think of this. Every single person out there has a problem and they have come out to forget it for the night and be entertained. Why not make thier night for them, and that YOU have done it for them. :bassist: :hyper:
Many regards
Peter (UK)

There have been whole doctoral dissertations written on the subject of performance anxiety. I know it's delibating symptoms well; I've sufferred with it most of my performing career. The thing that kept me going was the times, for some reason or another, that I couldn't do anything wrong onstage, everything worked out, I could stray far from the form in solos and fall back perfectly, melting everyone's face off along the way, but why and how??????????????
What I do now to completely eliminate those effects is a two-fold approach. I have learned from a book entitled "Effortless Mastery" (do a Amazon.com search) that performance anxiety is the result of either one or a combination of scenarios: 1. A lack of preparation, or, 2. an ego manestifation. The lack of preparation is an easy fix; simply learn your material (what ever it is) so that you can play it at any tempo from memory. The ego manestifation is a little tricky to manage. The point of "Effortless Mastery" was a simple Yoga breathing technique that switched the control of one's brain from the Alpha wave to the Delta wave. The breathing technique is simple. One breathes in slowly through the nose taking as large a breath as you can manage, holding it in for a second and then exhaling slowly through one's mouth. The entire process should take approx. ten seconds. My symptom is cold, sweaty palms when I am in the grip of the anxiety demon; fifty good breaths is all it takes to change the gears and eliminate the dreaded sweaty palms. The second thing I do is give my ego an important part in the process, because you can't keep it at bay for long. What I let it do is maintain the appropriate count at the selected tempo, and subdivide to stay locked up with the drummer. This combination keeps me so busy that the music moves through me like a recording, allowing me to concertrate on my delivery thus giving the audience the performance they have come to expect.

Everythnig said about preparation (intimately knowing the songs, warming up before-hand, knowing what to expect from your fellow musicians, etc) helps.

What also helps me personally is to focus my mind in more than one direction and to FEEL the groove of the song.
The focus thing is to be aware of what your playing and where the song is headed, to be aware of your bandmates, & to be aware of the audience, all at the same time.
All of that mental stuff should be enveloped by your awareness and feeling of the groove.

This way, there's so much going on, you don't have brain cells left to use on anxiety, plus, to me, when the groove is there, it is the best anxiety killer that there is.

What's this rock and roll groove talk on the orchestral forums? There's no grooving allowed in orchestra! In fact there are a number of things not allowed in orchestra:
1) Grooving
2) Smiling
3) Talking about anything that isn't related to your fav. Mahler symph.
4) kittens
5) allegro with a little basso
6) young people
7) old people that dont smell like cat food
8) smiling
9) cash payments that aren't done through the union
10) von dutch
etc. The list goes on.

Anyway, good thread. I'm learning some good stuff.