Hey guys:

So, help me make the wood selections and any other options for my future Roscoe bass. :bassist: Sounds like fun, eh?

My default model choice would likely be the LG-3005...I like it's curvey looks, light weight, and the comments I've seen about it being very comfortable to wear. Let me know if a different model might get me closer to my tonal goals below however...definitely fretted and definitely 5-string with the 19mm string spacing option.

The style that I play most (and want the bass to support extremely well) is fast staccato finger-picking (think Rocco Prestia kind of vibe but a little brighter sounding) and slap (think Robert Trujillo kind of bright modern tone). I only occasionally play with a pick, so I don't care what it sounds like with a pick. On notes that I do sustain, I want them to growl like mad regardless of where I am on the fretboard and what register the note is in. Basses that sit well in mellow songs without much competition are very easy to find...basses that just naturally punch through mixes with roaring guitars and pounding drums are much harder to find, but that's what I want.

Lows: I like the lows tight, but not at all lacking. I'd rather have to cut the lows a bit than boost the lows. I like lots of growl on sustained notes.

Lower mids: I like lots and lots of growl here.

Higher mids: I want bite here, and I really like a nasally vibe. Very nasally in fact...think horned-rimmed glasses with tape on 'em kind of nasally!

Highs: Strong metallic ping for slap, but less prominence for fingerstyle.

Overall, I want it to be very growly, have access to some serious nasally-ness, and have absolutely excellent transient reponse. I want extreme clarity without sacrificing supple low end...I want excellent articulation without loosing low end grunt.

I realize the electronics figure into this quite a bit, but Bartolini's pickups are the only option available, right? Not that I don't like Barts...quite the opposite, but still curious if there are other options. I'm thinking either the Bart or OBP-3 onboard preamp/EQ would be a good choice...both are fairly transparent as I understand it.

As far as woods go, I'm thinking the fretboard probably has the most impact on sound. I have one bass now with wenge/purpleheart laminated neck, and purpleheart fretboard (Conklin GT-5). That combination seems to be really stable, and I like the somewhat compressed sound from the really hard woods for fretboards. In Roscoe land, is purpleheart my best choice here, given my goals above?

How about the neck? I know there are a few options there...not sure of the best choice to meet my sonic goals though. If the choices aren't that different sonically, then I'd probably go for the lightest weight choice.

I'm thinking the wood choices for the body will give the bass it's resonant frequencies, right? Given my goals above what are the thoughts on body woods?

I'm not that concerned about appearance...I haven't seen a Roscoe that isn't gorgeous, so I don't see how I could go wrong. I'd rather choose the woods based on tonal preferences.

One other thing...I like being able to get a thumpier tone by panning toward the neck pickup, and get more nasallyness in it by panning toward the bridge pickup. However, the thing I don't like is having to pan toward the bridge, then also boost the lows a bit to compensate. It sure would be nice to have electronics that compensate for this.

For instance, at one point I was considering putting EMG soapbars into the Conklin GT-5...I was thinking a 40DC (ceramic magnets) in the neck position to bring more clarity to the neck pup sound, and 40CS (ceramic and steel magnets) to bring more warmth to the bridge pup sound. I want there to be a very strong character difference between neck and bridge sounds(versatility!), but I don't want all the lows to disappear on the bridge side and all the mids to disappear on the neck side. I think, ideally, I'd love to get huge lower-mid growl from the neck pickup and really prominent nasally growl out of the bridge, but really not have to touch the onboard EQ when I pan between them. (I hope what I'm saying makes sense!) Anyway, I'm sure Bartolini has some model choices that should support this well, just as EMG does...I just don't know enough about the Bart choices to make any assumptions.

That said, I also like to vary my tone pretty substantially by where I finger-pick (near the near versus near the bridge, fingers versus thumb-picking, etc.)

I realize that the bridge pickup position has a lot to do with the nasally-ness and low-end...the closer it is to the bridge, the more nose you get but the trade off is that you loose more lows that way. So, that's why I question if a model other than the LG-3005 might have some benefits toward my goal since the pickup positioning looks a bit different between the different models.

UPDATE: And one other thought...perhaps the way to get all the properties that I'm looking for between neck and bridge sound is to have two onboard EQ's...one for each pickup. Is their any reason this couldn't be done with the Aguilar or Bart preamps? This could bring a tremendous amount of versatility to the equation.

So, share your wisdom comrades!

Dave

I would go with a Spanish Cedar body, based on your request for mids, i think this would do it there.

Demeter preamp, without a doubt.

Purpleheart would be a fine choice. My favorite is spalted purpleheart.

I would just go with a standard maple/purpleheart/maple neck.

So, Spanish Cedar body for the mid growl or the mid nasally-ness?

Dave

I think it can get a bit of both. My favorite body wood is swamp ash but it has more of a mid scooped tone, so i eliminated that option. Then we were left with mahogany, which can get some lo mid punch in there, but not really nasaly in my opinion. Alder is overall a non-aggresive wood, and maple is bright, but not really middy so.

It was more a best-of-the-bunch decision for me.

Swamp ash will probably give you the slap tone you want. But it wont give you the mids without coercing em from the EQ.

Hmmm - well my Spanish Ceder body SKB has many of you chosen atributes and that has a splated purpleheart f/b and all bart electronics.
It has plenty of growl and punch and bottom end (it does a great OX impression).

You will need to look at an SKB or Century for pup options eg Nordstrands.

Gard will point you in the right direction I am sure - but I am well pleased with the above SKB and I leave the controls flat virtually all the time and vary my finger position for jaco funk at the bridge to growly full sound near the neck.

I hope this helps - others will have their own opinions I am only talking from my experience. Also my mahogony SKB with rosewood board does quite have the growl or open sound of the ceder/splated purple heart and they share the same elctronics.

Also my mahogony SKB with rosewood board does quite have the growl or open sound of the ceder/splated purple heart and they share the same elctronics.

Did you mean DOES have the growl or DOES NOT have the growl? (I'm thinking you meant DOES NOT...)

Thanks folks!
Dave

Did you mean DOES have the growl or DOES NOT have the growl? (I'm thinking you meant DOES NOT...)

Thanks folks!
Dave

Yes sorry - the mahogany bass does not have quite as much growl as the ceder bass - but still sounds awesome, in fact each bass is subtly different. I gig with one of them for a few weeks and am convinced that that one sounds the best - then I swop and use the other for a few weeks and then I prefer that one. Thank goodenss I only have two!!!!:crying:

Cool. Ya know, I should note that I have 3 five strings that I use regularly...a '96 Stingray5 w/ maple fretboard, a Conklin GT-5, and a G&L L-2500 Tribute w/rosewood fretboard. Out of these, the 'Ray has the best articulation but I always find myself boosting it's lows just a bit. The Conklin has a nice round bottom and some nasally mids, but it just seems like it doesn't cut through the mix all that well when there's competition for sonic space. The G&L has a big fat bottom and some very strong hi-mids, but even so it still doesn't seem to have quite a much articulation as the Stingray5. If I'm recording some fast staccato fingerpicking material, then the Stingray5 seems to fit the bill the best.

Surely one can have maximum articulation AND plenty of fat but tight bottom AND nasally mids AND glassy highs, all in one bass, right? :D

Surely one can have maximum articulation AND plenty of fat but tight bottom AND nasally mids AND glassy highs, all in one bass, right? :D

Yeah - it's called being louder than everyone else:eek: :hiding:

I find that the roscoes seems to cut through the dense mix of a live band very well - I have no problems hearing myself on stage at all, and I use no bass amps as we have monitors on stage and a pretty nice PA, oh and I don't have a monitor - I share with the drummer:eek: :eek: :D

In other words I have to work hard on my technique to get the cleanest sound I can, not just turn up;)

Oh and the roscoes seem to have plenty of deep bass, I only use a tiny tweak on the bass control on occasions and my band produce plenty of bottom end.

Yup, I'm with ya. It's always surprising to me how, for instance, a bass that sounds great by itself disappears when it's in the mix with everything else (and we can be talking live or studio)...sometimes a bass that doesn't sound really great alone just really sticks out when it's in the mix. The Peavey Fury V comes to mind for me in particular...it doesn't even sound "good" (to my ears, anyway) by itself...put it with a whole mix in a band and it just punches right through the mix without being too loud...go figure, eh?

Dave

Wouldn't punching though the mix be more how you set up your EQ especially if its semi-parametric. It would be the freq.(right??) that the rest of the band would be playing at so..... If you guitarist was playing low then there is a good chance you mids won't come out as well and if bass drum is being used a lot the low B won't be heard a lot. Isn't all relative? What im getting to is that punhing through the mix although can be effected by the bass you play has more to do with the rest of your band.


Thats just my thoughts i could very well be wrong and i would like somebody to correct me if i am.

Hmm...

Bubinga top, Swamp Ash body (gonna disagree with Figgy, my ash bodied fretless has SCREAMING midrange), Maple fingerboard (straight is better, IMO), Bart CB pickups, Aguilar 3-band preamp.

Guaranteed to P!$$ off every guitarist you ever play with.

:cool:

:bassist:

;)

Hmm...

Bubinga top, Swamp Ash body (gonna disagree with Figgy, my ash bodied fretless has SCREAMING midrange), Maple fingerboard (straight is better, IMO), Bart CB pickups, Aguilar 3-band preamp.

Guaranteed to P!$$ off every guitarist you ever play with.

:cool:

:bassist:

;)

Eheheheh! sounds familiar :smug:
Gard, how different, IYE, Ebony sounds vs Maple?
IME, IMO, the Bart CB are more traditional/open sounding. Extended highs and lows, more agressive with less of the traditional tight, growly Bart sound.

Mo'

Well, I think EQ has plenty to do with it...BUT, I've never been able to "EQ in" growl that doesn't exist in the bass...have you? There's plenty of things that are relevant to punching through the mix, including EQ of all the instruments, the band and how they sound and the balance of it all, how the guitarist voices chords, how left-hand heavy a keyboardist is, the style of music...it's quite a big list.

However, I think there's a lot you can do only from the bass...how growly your bass is, whether you use any distortion or not, your EQ settings, whether you use any effects like chorus, sonic maximizers, compression, how your bass line supports or supplements the harmony and melody of the song, whether you do parts that match the drums or that supplement the drums, whether you play the notes high or low, whether you play sustainful parts or staccato parts, how many rests you play, whether you slap, finger-pick, play with a pick, thumb-pick, where you execute your chosen technique (near the bridge, near the neck, or somewhere in between), whether you keep your nails short or long, how thick your calluses are, how strong and/or agile your fingers are, what kind of mood you're in at the moment, and whether you washed your hands with soap after you ate greasy fried chicken...;)

For instance, if you want to make a bass line really stand out, play some rests! Seriously...maybe play whatever riff for one measure, then don't play the second measure...even better, when you are playing for that one measure, play a line that partially harmonizes with one of the other instruments or even the vocal...your bass line will stick out like a 2 foot thumb. Or if you're playing straight 8th notes because that's what the song calls for, play them very staccato, and rest on beat 3. Etc, etc. When you stop playing even for one count, all that low end goes away, and when comes back it's like a Mack truck! As Victor Wooten would say, knock 'em down with silence. :bassist: In a nutshell, use contrast as a way to punch through.

Anyway, that's just one example and the list above could go on and on. I'm quite a believer that half your tone is in your hands, and the second half is in your gear. The bass and what it naturally sounds like is a big part of that second half since it's the starting point. And just as importantly, how well the bass feels, plays, and otherwise supports the types of bass lines that you play. For the instrument itself, it's a combination of sonic and non-sonic properties.

All this, of course, is just my humble opinion! :)

Dave

Hello,
I agree, but!
I have a Sadowsky MS5 I adore, but I was looking for "that" growl/burp... after trying a lot of option, I ended up with Bart NTMB and M45C 1/2 an inch closer to the bridge (http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/mauriliomina@sbcglobal.net/detail?.dir=c685&.dnm=f700.jpg&.src=ph)
Now my bass growl and burb like a drunk beer drinker at the "October Fest" :eek:
The B string has a presence almost like a 35" scale :hyper:
Sounds strange, right?
My point is that, like you say, there's a lot of variable to consider!

Mo'

Well, I think EQ has plenty to do with it...BUT, I've never been able to "EQ in" growl that doesn't exist in the bass...have you? There's plenty of things that are relevant to punching through the mix, including EQ of all the instruments, the band and how they sound and the balance of it all, how the guitarist voices chords, how left-hand heavy a keyboardist is, the style of music...it's quite a big list.

However, I think there's a lot you can do only from the bass...how growly your bass is, whether you use any distortion or not, your EQ settings, whether you use any effects like chorus, sonic maximizers, compression, how your bass line supports or supplements the harmony and melody of the song, whether you do parts that match the drums or that supplement the drums, whether you play the notes high or low, whether you play sustainful parts or staccato parts, how many rests you play, whether you slap, finger-pick, play with a pick, thumb-pick, where you execute your chosen technique (near the bridge, near the neck, or somewhere in between), whether you keep your nails short or long, how thick your calluses are, how strong and/or agile your fingers are, what kind of mood your in at the moment, and whether you washed your hands with soap after you ate greasy fried chicken...;)

Seriously the list goes on and on! I'm quite a believer that half your tone is in your hands, and the second half is in your gear. The bass and what it naturally sounds like is a big part of that second half since it's the starting point.

All this, of course, is just my humble opinion! :)

Dave

Gard you mention that your bass has a nice midrange, id love to hear someclips. Part of that could be because yours is fretless? Or maybe the way it works with the bubinga/nords, who knows.

Gard you mention that your bass has a nice midrange, id love to hear someclips. Part of that could be because yours is fretless? Or maybe the way it works with the bubinga/nords, who knows.
+1 for the clips!

Mo'

Boy! There are a lot of looooooooong posts in the thread already, and I'm probably not going to help things at all! :p I'm going to tread lightly here, as there were a few details in the original post that I would view as being potentially in conflict with one another. However, I think that it is important to remember that there really are no ABSOLUTES in the Roscoe game. For instance, to say that a Spanish cedar body will give you warmth and good mids is not to say that a swamp ash body is devoid of warmth and mids. That is not the case. We're simply slanting the recommendation...skewing it toward a preference. Both are excellent, but if you have to choose, which way do you go...that sort of thing. ;) Similarly, to say that a maple 'board or the Aggie/Demeter preamps are good for slappers/guys who like a bright, articulate top-end is not to say that the Bart pre or a cocobolo board will cheat you out of part of the sonic spectrum that is delivered by your bass. All of the components will deliver, but some are marginally better than others for certain players, styles or situations. ;)

Based on what you're looking for (as described above), there seems to be a preference for a bright, articulate top end and a tight, aggressive low end while retaining a full, versatile, overall tone. Building to these preferences, it seems as if Gard and I are in agreement...as usual!!! :D I would also recommend a swamp ash body with a maple fingerboard. I would also say that you could go with either the Aguilar or Demeter preamp...either would probably suite your needs just fine. As for a top...that's completely up to you. Gard sleeps with a piece of bubinga under his pillow at night (contributing to his unnaturally "chipper" demeanor on early morning phone calls), so he is a bit biased when it comes to the whole "bubinga" thing. :smug: Overall, I think that those core elements will get you very close to where you would like to be. I hope that helps with the specing-out process. ;)

Hey guys...thanks for the commentary. So, I ventured over to Guitar Center and Sam Ash this afternoon (luckily for me, they are right across the street from each other). I actually went after a couple cables, but hey...what's the fun in that if you don't play a few basses while you're there?

Anyway, as soon as I walked in, one of the guys who knows my face (and probably my name) chased me down with a Tobias Killer B 5-string that he had just gotten on trade-in (on what I can't possibly imagine!). I played this Tobias for quite a while...this is one of the few basses I've played that had the articulation I'm looking for without sacrificing any low end grunt...had plenty of low growl and the bridge output was quite nasally. So, I think I've answered one of my own questions...can you have it all? Um...yup, yup. Anyway, the neck was maple/purpleheart laminate, fretboard was pau ferro, and body was completely zebrawood IIRC. So, I'm thinking that bodes well toward a maple + purpleheart neck.

Of course, I didn't buy it...it has my dreaded "standard" string-spacing of 17mm at the bridge. However, the action was so perfect that the closer string spacing didn't feel clumsy like most basses with 17mm spacing.

I also played a Pedulla Thunderbass...the wide, flat neck and 19mm string spacing felt really comfortable to me, but it just didn't seem to play that well. Tonally, I guess memory was sweeter than reality. I loved this particular bass the first time I played one, but today...it just didn't do anything for me. It didn't seem to have nearly the level of articulation that I'd expect from a $2800 instrument (and nowhere near the $1200 used Killer B). Of course, for whatever wacko reason, the action was a mile high on this bass...I'd imagine that was quite a bit of both the playability and tonal issues. Or, ya know...maybe my tastes have changed or my ears have gotten better since the last time I played a Pedulla...who knows.

Anyway, just thought I'd mention this...I'm not sure a maple fretboard is the right choice...I *think* I prefer the almost compressed quality that you get from some of the very hard woods, like pau ferro, wenge, purpleheart, etc.

But, my main point is that it was really encouraging to run across a bass that demonstrated to me that you can indeed have fat bottom, lower-mid growl, nasally hi-mids, and glassy highs all in one package. Just gotta figure how to get similar characteristics in a Roscoe with the right string spacing!

Dave

JPJ, the wife is always complaining about "that damn Bubinga under your pillow" when she wants to snuggle up and she bonks her noggin on it.

:spit:

;)

...yeah, I'm a Bubinga ho, I admit it, but man, the stuff has a SOUND!!!

:bassist:

Dave, a good friend of mine and former fellow slave/employee ( ;) ) at Bass Central, Perry, has a Tobias Killer B with EXACTLY those specs, and it killed, agreed. Great combination with that bass for some reason!

Fingerboards: the effect is fairly subtle, but there, IMO - maple is snappy and has some "air" in it, purpleheart is snappy and more "meaty" (???) sounding, wenge is more midrangy, pau ferro is a rosewood and will be more of a warmer sound (it is nowhere near the hardness of the other woods, it's just a hard ROSEWOOD), and (for Mo) ebony will be bright but compressed (slightly) without the air or snap of maple.

By the way, on the string spacing issue, if you custom order the bass, wide spacing is not a problem, it just adds a bit to the price of the bass ($300 retail).

Although I haven't tested it at a gig (I play it at home every chance I can get), my Roscoe masterpiece has a lot of growl and "anger" to it! :D (Still haven't officially named it, Gard).

Davesisk, for a list of flavors on my bass, feel free to drop by my thread on it... search for Century Lefty... it's the only thread of it's kind and the only bass of it's kind. :D ;)

:)

What you're describing sounds like my Roscoe to a T.

It's a maple/maple neck, mahogany body, maple top.