Spanish Cedar, Alder, or Mahogany? Ouch. These tonewood threads always get mixed answers.

To my understanding, Mahogany as a darker sound than Alder, which I guess is what I'm looking for (deeper and lower the better), but it is supposed to be a bit "muddy." Is that right? However, I'm thinking a hardwood top veneer would add some crisp to the note and make it all dandy. Where does Cedar fall in? Please correct me if I'm wrong on any of this.

Next are the preamps: Bartolini, Aguilar, and Demeter. I always thought Bartolini was known for a big, warm, growly low end, but from reading other threads, it seems the Bart preamp is a little lacking in that department and instead has a strongly voiced mid-range? Does anyone have experience with the three different preamps and is the Demeter really worth that much more than the Bart or Aggie? Again: Regardless of how picky you get, I know each of these will be able to do at least a decent "solo bass" tone(tappin popping slapping etc), but which of these will do rock the best?


this was my post in the basses forum, http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?t=262893
if you want to see alittle more.

Anyone have input? (cue Gard here)

edit: Few more quick questions. Are the pickups offered slanted on the skb as well or is it only offered on the lg body shape? Also, is the skb bigger/heavier enough than the lg to actually give it a bit of a bigger sound or is it soley just playing comfort/aesthetics?

Thanks.

-Wujuu

OK, I'll put my word in:

Alder - haven't made many basses with it, but the best I can say for our instruments is that it is warm and smooth sounding, fairly "even" in response.

Mahogany - very fat, solid lows, solid mids, slightly "compressed" sounding.

Spanish Cedar - take mahogany, take away the compression, more "open" sounding.

Preamps:

Bartolini - The "classic" Roscoe tone, thick lows, strong mids, SLIGHTLY muted highs.

Aguilar - Really depends on WHICH Aguilar: OPB-1, very aggressive, works well for slappers; OPB-3, also aggressive, but more refined and flexible (the OBP-1 is a boost only 2 band, the OBP-3 is a 3 band cut & boost; they ARE very different sounding), slight emphasis on the upper mids.

Demeter - Very natural sounding: it literally (to me) sounds like the bass does unplugged, just louder, when it's set "flat".

If I were going for a "rock" bass tone, I'd get a maple top with a Swamp Ash body (which you didn't ask about...), and a Maple or Purpleheart fingerboard. Very aggressive, but still "controlled", good punch (from the Ash), nice presence in the highs (from the maple top) and good snap (from the fingerboard). Preamp, Bart, plenty flexible, very solid tone, good solid lows, mids & highs.

Thanks, Gard...the Bart preamp sounds fine...and the body size/slanted pups issue?



I think I'll have to decide on either mahogany or spanish cedar for the body. Swamp ash and maple fretboard are exactly what I'm trying to get away from!! I love how maple fretboards look...but from the two basses I've owned that have had the ash/maple combo, I wasn't very satisfied with the sound..guess it coulda been the pickups however. I own an Sr5 ash/maple and had a warmoth with EMG's ash/maple. After some time I noticed what I hear as a scooped mid tone in both basses, even when unplugged. They just didn't have the fullness that I was looking for. I love the sr5 I have, it's great for funk, but to me it doesn't hold down the low end enough for my rock playing, and that's not exactly what they're known for either (punch is the sr5's forte I believe). Anybody else have more input on the mahogany/cedar debate? They seem pretty darned close. Thanks.

-wujuu

wujuu

For rock, I think the less compressed Spanish Cedar would be the way to go IMO anyway.

So now I'm thinking......

How would a Spanish Cedar(no top), SKB four string ( Gard, can you do an SKB 4) 34" scale with say a maple neck, ebony board, Nordstrand dual coils, passive, but if I have to have a pre amp make it the Demeter, look and sound? This seems like it could be a potential "rock machine" What do you guys think??

/bump

pickups/body size, anyone?

Savit -

We will do an SKB 4 string, no trouble, it is priced the same as an LG 3000. As for a solid Spanish cedar body without a top, I don't have a clue what it would sound like, as we haven't ever done it. However, I think it would be somewhat similar to a solid mahogany body, without the "punch" or "compression". Not a "mud puppy", but definitely not the most snappy or well-defined tone.

wujuu,
Assuming you're a rock bassist, my vote for you is:

Ash body
Maple top
Spalted purpleheart fingerboard
Maybe wenge wedge neck if you got some $ to play with
Bart preamp.

Result: you WILL be heard!!:bassist: :bassist:




:cool:

What are the tone of purpleheart and diamondwood as fingerboard woods? Never heard of them being used before.

What are the tone of purpleheart and diamondwood as fingerboard woods? Never heard of them being used before.

Purpleheart is a lot like maple, but not as "dry" sounding; diamondwood is VERY hard, but we only use it for fretless, it gives a tone similar to ebony that has been coated with epoxy.

Purpleheart is a lot like maple, but not as "dry" sounding; diamondwood is VERY hard, but we only use it for fretless, it gives a tone similar to ebony that has been coated with epoxy.


To my ears, purpleheart is not *quite* as bright as maple. Very beefy sounding and responsive though.

I would also recommend an ash body for rock, if that's what you are playing. Heck, I would recommend an ash body on a Roscoe for everything. Ash bodied Roscoes rule.;)

Nooo~! stop recommending ash bodies!! That's exactly what I'm trying to get away from. I just owned two ash/maple basses and could not get over the scooped mids. Now everyone is telling me they are "the best." What's wrong with me? :eyebrow:

My ash bodied Roscoe doesn't have any scooped mids at all.. IMHO.

:)

we need some more people in this forum...and i need 3000 dollars

:D

Well here is my 2c. I have both a mahogony SKB with Rosewood f/b and Spanish ceder SKB with Spalted Purpleheart f/b both have Bart eq in. The Spanish Ceder SKB has a more open sound than the mahogony and the purpleheart f/b is brighter than the rorewood f/b.

The spanish ceder bass has more growl and cuts better than the mahogony bass but still has plenty of bottom end but has more balls - if know what I mean.

I tend to play finger style funk/pop and both basses work well but the mahogony bass is darker and more muted.

I find the Bart eq great and run it flat most of the time - for what it's worth I tend to find that with most of my basses alot can be achieved tone wise by altering the set up of the bass - pick up height, action, strings etc to fine tune the sound more to your likeing.

The great thing about the Roscoe basses IMO is that all the sounds are useable and work well in live/band situations and I am very pleased with both of mine.

Nooo~! stop recommending ash bodies!! That's exactly what I'm trying to get away from. I just owned two ash/maple basses and could not get over the scooped mids. Now everyone is telling me they are "the best." What's wrong with me? :eyebrow:

Sorry to say, but my ash bodied Roscoe does not have scooped mids at all, either.:scowl:

To my ears, purpleheart is not *quite* as bright as maple. Very beefy sounding and responsive though.

would you say its closer to ebony? sort of in between rosewood and maple?

Nooo~! stop recommending ash bodies!! That's exactly what I'm trying to get away from. I just owned two ash/maple basses and could not get over the scooped mids. Now everyone is telling me they are "the best." What's wrong with me? :eyebrow:
Your problem is that you are comparing apples and oranges. Any Sting Ray is going to sound greatly different from a Roscoe no matter the wood/ PUP/ preamp combination. You could get close to a Sting Ray sounding bass (someone correct me if I'm wrong), but you can't make a Roscoe a Sting Ray and you can't make a Sting Ray a Roscoe.

Your problem is that you are comparing apples and oranges. Any Sting Ray is going to sound greatly different from a Roscoe no matter the wood/ PUP/ preamp combination. You could get close to a Sting Ray sounding bass (someone correct me if I'm wrong), but you can't make a Roscoe a Sting Ray and you can't make a Sting Ray a Roscoe.


I know the Stingray is going to sound different, the single bridge humbucker makes for a unique sound with some loss of warmth due to no neck pu, but if i remember correctly, ash is supposed to have scooped mids tonally isn't it? There may be ash bodies that don't, but i believe that is the general tonal nature of ash. Please correct me if i'm wrong. I noticed this "scoop" playing another bass ash body/maple board/emg pu's and electronics...

I know the Stingray is going to sound different, the single bridge humbucker makes for a unique sound with some loss of warmth due to no neck pu, but if i remember correctly, ash is supposed to have scooped mids tonally isn't it? There may be ash bodies that don't, but i believe that is the general tonal nature of ash. Please correct me if i'm wrong. I noticed this "scoop" playing another bass ash body/maple board/emg pu's and electronics...
Our sound gurus will hopefully chime in soon, but I'm thinking you will get much more scoop out of the electronics and construction (pick up placement and such) than the difference between Mahogany/ Spanish Cedar/ Swamp Ash.

Once again guys: correct me if I'm wrong.

Hey Bassman, you're right, of course everything factors in, and pickups/placement are big ones. However, I'm not deciding on which type of bass to get, or which electronics package I like, I'm deciding on the woods. So in this case, it is proper for me to talk about the tonal qualities of wood and what I want/don't want, no? Sure no Roscoe will sound like a 'ray and vice versa, but within Roscoes there is still a wood selection that offers slightly different tones and that's why I'm being specific about the woods--regardless of the tone shaping capabilities of electronics/construction.