Ive had it! I am not satisfied with my finishing, not by a long shot. and i wont be happy until i can get that 'three foot thick, dipped in molten glass, mirror shine, professional paint and lacquer' finish! Come on guys whats the last word on achieving that F-bass, Alembic style gloss?
I have checked the forums and searched the net but the general chat has been of 'satisfactory' and 'not too bad' results...
I dont care what i have to spend, or where i have to go to get the materials or the training, i have to have it perfect! Any of you Pro's want to divulge any secrets? Any of you amateurs know the true path to lacquer enlightenment?
I know i can get my finishing done by autobody shops but that is not any use to me. I want to understand and master the process for myself.
Maybe we can kick off a definitive thread on finishing here with everything one needs to know, mmmmmmmm! just imagine that!
(this is what i mean)
http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j164/THIRSTYGUMS/e9_1_b.jpg
please help!


cheers:help: :bassist: :help: :bassist: :D

Well, since ANY hardcoat finish can be polished, I would invest in a polishing setup. Then learn to use polishing compounds. When I finally did that - it all came together.

i also have very little knowledge about getting that kind of shine, but i have been reading a lot for the past couple of months and doing some experimentating (yes, thats a word in DougLand)

so far what i have gathered is:
1. you need to build up the finish keeping each coat as clean as possible.
2. polish with successively finer grits and polishing compounds as mentioned by Herr Hambone

to attest to this: i was messing around with a cocobolo fretboard and some MicroMesh pads that i had bought awhile back. after about 10 minutes i was able to watch tv in the reflection of the fretboard.

Give Status or Jens Ritter a call.

Levelling the finish is very important. After you completely fill the grain, then build up the finish you have to take care to level the finish using large sanding blocks and not your two fingers holding a piece of sand paper. If you polish an unlevel top you will see every dip and high spot.
My .02

Give Status or Jens Ritter a call.

There are about 6 guys on this board and probably 10000+ in the general population that can answer this question. Status and Ritter ain't the end all be all.

my buddy is a Guitarded Autobody & Frame guy.... WAY to anal for his own good.

He has recently started refinishing a few Hamers he's collected... A couple builders / restorers are trying to get him to set up shop. Not bad for his first couple of attempts :eek:

http://hartsafire.com/images/music/ken/2006_0527a50001%20(Medium).JPG

http://hartsafire.com/images/music/ken/2006_0620tipton0001%20(Medium).JPG

http://hartsafire.com/images/music/ken/2006_0711picguards0007%20(Medium).JPG

http://hartsafire.com/images/music/ken/2006_0711picguards20002%20(Medium).JPG

there are a bunch of before and after shots here (from emails I received from him)
http://hartsafire.com/images/music/ken/

He used dupont automotive paint & epoxy primer... harder and longer lasting than old fashion finishing.

He just moved to a new place in Celebration FL. Once he gets settled in he's painting my Destroyer to match the Silver Hamer.

He claims its all in the buffing

I used to paint cars for a living. That's how I learned. Though the materials I use on basses are different from car paint the basic techniques are the same.

Here's my latest.
http://www.lecomptebass.com/images/misc/tom-vb4-49.jpg

I will say the finish on my Status Retro Active-J is the best finish I've ever seen on any instrument.

It's all about the proper application. Warming your clear stuff can help it lay down better, and keeping a temperature controlled environment helps as well. Humidity makes a big difference in how long of a curing time you have on your clearcoat, too. Just go with the instructions of the stuff that you are using, and invest in some books, maybe from stewmac, they have some good stuff.

Edit: Check this- http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Books,_plans/Building_and_repair:_Finishing/Guitar_Finishing_Step-By-Step.html

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v104/philmailloux/manta1.jpg

That's my very first bass and my first attempt at finishing ever.

Can you see the floor reflected on the body? and the window reflected on the top horn?

Here's my recipe for succes:
A normal cutting compound found at the car shop.
A stewmac buffing pad attached to my drill.
and finish with 3M imperial handglaze

if you don't know how to use all these products, go to reranch.com and read up on finishing and buffing

Ok....enough of parts and pieces. I posted this when JP asked the same question, it really is a very simple process.

1) Grain fill level and seal....these are always your first 3 steps, you must do this to get a level and smooth surface for the application of finish coats.

2) Apply 4 - 8 thin coats of lacquer, allow proper flash time between coats, per manufacturer reccommendation. and allow to dry overnight.
3) wetsand with 600 or 800 until surface is almost perfectly smooth, you may leave tiny pin dots of shine as the lacquer will burn into itself. Clean with alcohol & lint free cloth.
4) Apply 4-8 more thin coats of lacquer (follow directions in step 2!!!) let dry over night.
5) wetsand again with 600 or 800 again until smooth with tiny pin dots. clean with alcohol and lint free cloth (microfiber works well)
6) Apply 4 - 8 more coats....see step 2 and 4(allow to dry for a few days before step 7....allows lacquer to cure more)
7) this is the tricky part, wetsand with 800 until you see tiny pin dots again. Procede to 1000 grit, and wetsand until all the pindots are gone. Procede to 1200, and wetsand out the marks from the 1000....Procede to 1500 and wetsand out the marks from the 1200. You can continue this process upto 2000 grit. (HIGHLY RECOMMENDED)
8) rub out with 3M FINE rubbing compound. I use a 4" random orbit palm buffer, with a wooltex or cloth bonnet and WOODCRAFT buffing balls for inside cutaways. Rub out until you get the shine up and ALL SCRATCHES GONE!!!! Clean after product hazes.
9) With a microfiber bonnet on buffer, use Meguiars Deep Crystal #2 to seal the lacquer, and add depth.
10) Also with a NEW and clean Microfiber bonnet, use Meguiars Liquid Carnauba wax to buff to final finish.

follow these directions and you should achieve the finish you are after. Good Luck.

Note: As with every different finisher, wetsanding and thickness of coats of lacquer go hand in hand. I spray very thin coats, and thus I wetsand about half of this out during each step. adjust your sanding to the amount of coats you apply and the heaviness. If you spray thin, wetsand lightly, if you spray thick, you may want to be more agressive.

Great post ML!

I can only add that the time spent between steps 6 & 7 could be longer than 7 days. In fact, the longer the finish cures, the better. I would say 7 days is a ballpark minimum but if you're in a real dry climate like the desert SW, curing might take less time. Sometimes I'll even begin step 7 but pause after the first grit to let the newly exposed finish cure a little bit longer.

Hi
I have been trying to find these buffing balls you mentioned. Could you point me in the right direction please.

It's all about the proper application. Warming your clear stuff can help it lay down better, and keeping a temperature controlled environment helps as well. Humidity makes a big difference in how long of a curing time you have on your clearcoat, too. Just go with the instructions of the stuff that you are using, and invest in some books, maybe from stewmac, they have some good stuff.

Edit: Check this- http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Books,_plans/Building_and_repair:_Finishing/Guitar_Finishing_Step-By-Step.html

Although good advice, it doesn't really affect the high gloss surface.

Here's my take on it:
The most important is surface preparation. Sanding, sealing and filling the pores to a level surface is, in my opinion, the most critical steps in getting a high gloss. It's difficult and time spent here is time well spent. When you look at your surface against the light, you should see no pore craters or dips.

Here's how I buff:
Wet sand with 800 grit wet/dry sandpaper, then proceed with the various micromesh steps up to 12000 (all wet). Then I use lint free cloths to buff by hand thorugh three Meguiar's mirror glaze products, #17 (plastic cleaner), #10 (plastic polish) and #7 (show car polish). Again, time spent here is time well spent. AND WATCH OUT FOR THOSE FINGERNAILS!!! they can make you want to drive your head against a wall!

my $.02

Man, if I warmed up the polyester I use it would kick-off in the cup and that would be ugly. It only has a pot life of 20 minutes.

There is a lot of good advice in this thread so far, but it might also be mentioned that there are a lot of alternatives to lacquer. There's catalyzed lacquer, urethanes, conversion varnishes, polyesters...and they don't all respond the same. Unless you have someone teaching you how to do a decent finish experience and experimentation are your best teachers. After lots of experimentation I've finally found a combination of materials and techniques that work for me.

Add rings and watch bands to your list, wilser...

Budman, James thoise are gorgeous finishes, really tidy!
Thanks guys it might seem obvious once you know how to do it but i just dont have the background in nor am i near to any professional level finishing. Unfortunately i have been winding up with loads of bloomed, pitted and orange-peely finishes.
keep posting this is very helpfull stuff

There are about 6 guys on this board and probably 10000+ in the general population that can answer this question. Status and Ritter ain't the end all be all.
Did'nt mean to offend anyone Hambone, my apologies if I did just called myself helping out.
It's all good.

:D
I will say the finish on my Status Retro Active-J is the best finish I've ever seen on any instrument.

I've done oil and wax on every guitar I've made so far. I'm such a wuss.

Hi
I have been trying to find these buffing balls you mentioned. Could you point me in the right direction please.

Hey Skelf.....Woodcraft.com part number 825410 2 inch
824167 3 inch
825412 4 inch
They are called "Beall Bowl Buffs" and each kit comes with 3 buffing balls, 1 - linen, 1 linen/cotton, and 1 cotton flannel.

They are not cheap, but they last quite a while. I have been using my sets for about 3 years now.

Great post ML!

I can only add that the time spent between steps 6 & 7 could be longer than 7 days. In fact, the longer the finish cures, the better. I would say 7 days is a ballpark minimum but if you're in a real dry climate like the desert SW, curing might take less time. Sometimes I'll even begin step 7 but pause after the first grit to let the newly exposed finish cure a little bit longer.

excellent advice Hambone....I have a climate controlled spray booth, thus being able to wetsand and buff in a shorter period of time, sometimes I don't think of this when discussing finishing.

As an addend, After buffing, I let the instrument cure for about a week before stringing it up. Sometimes 2 weeks.

excellent advice Hambone....I have a climate controlled spray booth, thus being able to wetsand and buff in a shorter period of time, sometimes I don't think of this when discussing finishing.

As an addend, After buffing, I let the instrument cure for about a week before stringing it up. Sometimes 2 weeks.

Hmm, climate controlled spray booth?

Is this one of your own construction or a purchased system? I've designed a booth that has positive airflow using standard high velocity vent fans but without the possibility of explosion. I'm curious as to what the pro's are offering in a size we builders would be interested in.

well...I just finished my new shop after 2 years. The whole shop is climate controled, and humidity constant at 46%. My spray booth is a down draft design with 200 cfm cross flow to allow both exhaust ports to collect and dispearce effectively. It's a small booth, about 60 Sq. ft. 10x6....when I get the pics of my shop posted, I'll include some pics of my booth too.

Basically two induction fans(520 cfm each) mounted in back wall and ducted to provide 70% down draft from side walls, and 30% cross draft from rear of booth with 2 Dayton sealed exhaust fans mounted and centered in front wall of booth in a stacked pattern at 3ft on center, and 4'6" on center. very little overspray problem, and very quick evacuation of fumes.

One thing I learned from my friends body shop was that the more circulation you have, the better the extraction of bad air. Of course, my booth cost me less than $600 to build inside my shop, his booth cost $11,000 but it is also professionally built, and 14 x 25.....LOL I'll have one like that some day....LMAo

well...I just finished my new shop after 2 years. The whole shop is climate controled, and humidity constant at 46%. My spray booth is a down draft design with 200 cfm cross flow to allow both exhaust ports to collect and dispearce effectively. It's a small booth, about 60 Sq. ft. 10x6....when I get the pics of my shop posted, I'll include some pics of my booth too.

Basically two induction fans(520 cfm each) mounted in back wall and ducted to provide 70% down draft from side walls, and 30% cross draft from rear of booth with 2 Dayton sealed exhaust fans mounted and centered in front wall of booth in a stacked pattern at 3ft on center, and 4'6" on center. very little overspray problem, and very quick evacuation of fumes.

One thing I learned from my friends body shop was that the more circulation you have, the better the extraction of bad air. Of course, my booth cost me less than $600 to build inside my shop, his booth cost $11,000 but it is also professionally built, and 14 x 25.....LOL I'll have one like that some day....LMAo

I've got 2 here at my work that are about that size - one is even heated for forced curing. I've done one body in there but I can't get into the booths when I need to because of workflow. Besides, I don't think I did any better a job in the booth than I've done in free air but the lighting was a helluva lot better!

Hey Skelf.....Woodcraft.com part number 825410 2 inch
824167 3 inch
825412 4 inch
They are called "Beall Bowl Buffs" and each kit comes with 3 buffing balls, 1 - linen, 1 linen/cotton, and 1 cotton flannel.

They are not cheap, but they last quite a while. I have been using my sets for about 3 years now.

Hi Musiclogic
Many thanks.

All of the above....

But also...what a lot of guys don't realize at the beginning, is that when you use buffing cloths, SM buffing pads etc, you cannot use one pad for all the different size grits/cutting compounds/swirl removers. Otherwise, you'll be trying to get the "glass" with all different sized-grits in there, all leaving different-sized scratches.

You need a dedicated pad for each buffing compound, that will never (ever) see anything else...ever.

All of the above....

But also...what a lot of guys don't realize at the beginning, is that when you use buffing cloths, SM buffing pads etc, you cannot use one pad for all the different size grits/cutting compounds/swirl removers. Otherwise, you'll be trying to get the "glass" with all different sized-grits in there, all leaving different-sized scratches.

You need a dedicated pad for each buffing compound, that will never (ever) see anything else...ever.

ahhh....the little things we forget can make for big mistakes.....WAY TO GO ERIK!!!!
+3 one each for rubbing compound, sealer, and wax....LOL

Hi Musiclogic
Many thanks.

See....now nobody can say an IRISHman never helped out a Scot. LMAO:hyper:

You're quite Welcome:hiding:

See....now nobody can say an IRISHman never helped out a Scot. LMAO:hyper:

You're quite Welcome:hiding:

I can certainly name one Irishman who helps me frequently, usually in looking at the world in an entirly different way. This has been known to involve a few pints.

...a shot of Jamesons, and a pint of guinness, or Murphy's can surely open a young mans mind......LOL especially in Kilkenny