Just wondering what you think. I play a bass guitar.

THE PEAVEY,

If by "EB" you mean "EUB", or "Electric Upright bass", then yes, I'm pretty sure that I can play on an DB everything that I can play on an EUB. The difference will be that what I play on the EUB will sound fake and electronic and have a greatly diminished capacity for acoustic tone and dynamic nuance, whereas the DB will sound "woody" and organic and REAL.

If, however, by "EB" you really mean "BG", as in BIG GUITAR, then the answer is ABSOLUTELY NOT. There are hundreds of things that I can do on a Big Guitar that I can't do on a DB. The DB is a much more physically demanding instrument with a much longer scale length, much less unimpeded access to the upper registers, and, unless my fingers are poor judges of such things, a much higher string tension (at least in the practical sense of what it FEELS LIKE to play a DB as opposed to a BIG GUITAR).

Hope this helps.

Regards,

DURRL

Originally posted by Chris Fitzgerald
THE PEAVEY,

If by "EB" you mean "EUB", or "Electric Upright bass", then yes, ....I can play on an DB everything that I can play on an EUB....the EUB will sound fake .....If, however, by "EB" you really mean "BG", as in BIG GUITAR, then the answer is ABSOLUTELY NOT. .....on a Big Guitar that I can't do on a DB. The DB is a much more physically demanding instrument .....what it FEELS LIKE to play a DB as opposed to a BIG GUITAR).

DURRL

:confused: I need some aspirin.

I just proved I cannot. Recorded an original instrumental tune, which had previously been an electric thing. Wanted to do it with acoustic instruments and found that I had to completely re-write my bass lines to be able to play it on upright...and I still don't have it, really. I did a kind of in-between thing with my Taylor ABG, but only the tone of an upright will create the vibe I'm after.

Anybody wanna track an upright part for me? :(

Originally posted by XavierG


:confused: I need some aspirin.


Did I do something bad? I did not intend to write a headache-inducing post, I swear! Honest and for TRUE!

Originally posted by Chris Fitzgerald



Did I do something bad? I did not intend to write a headache-inducing post, I swear! Honest and for TRUE!

It's just that all these initials, ie. EB, DB, EUB, GB, etc., they make my head spin. I think I'll petition Paul to add a new rule limiting the number of initials a poster is allowed to use in one post.

Some people seem able to! Like Christian McBride - he plays things on DB that I can't play on BG! Like on his version of Havona off his "SciFi" album, he plays Jaco's BG part from the Weather Report album, note for note, before breaking off for his solo!!

I have also heard/seen NHØP play stuff on DB that I know I could never play on BG! I'm sure he could play anything on DB, that I could play on BG. ;)

Originally posted by Bruce Lindfield
Some people seem able to! Like Christian McBride - he plays things on DB that I can't play on BG! Like on his version of Havona off his "SciFi" album, he plays Jaco's BG part from the Weather Report album, note for note, before breaking off for his solo!!

I have also heard/seen NHØP play stuff on DB that I know I could never play on BG! I'm sure he could play anything on DB, that I could play on BG. ;)



Well if the title of the thread had been, "Can you play on DB what BRUCE can play on BG", I'm sure that we'd have gotten a lot more positive replies from the peanut gallery down here.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAhahahah..hahaha...haha..


..haha...


..ha..


*cricket*





*chirp*



.....ahem, (cough)...... :rolleyes:



;)

Well that's how I read the title - if the first "you" is read by and refers to : NHOP or Chris McBride and the second "you" refers to me, then I'm sure the answer is yes.

Maybe the question I have answered is : "Can anyone play on the DB what you personally can play on the BG?"

I suppose the intention was(taking out all the ambiguous "you"s) :

"Do people think that a person can play on the Double Bass, exactly what they can on a Bass Guitar? "

or

"Is it possible for anyone to play on a Double Bass, anything that possibly could be played on a Bass Guitar?"

[This is what Philosophy teaches you - or at least my degree did - that how you phrase the question affects what answer you get. Or more accurately - Philosophy can help you phrase questions to ask exacrtly what you meant to ....it just can't give you the answer!]:D

Originally posted by Bruce Lindfield
Well that's how I read the title - if the first "you" is read by and refers to : NHOP or Chris McBride and the second "you" refers to me, then I'm sure the answer is yes.

Maybe the question I have answered is : "Can anyone play on the DB what you personally can play on the BG?"

I suppose the intention was(taking out all the ambiguous "you"s) :

"Do people think that a person can play on the Double Bass, exactly what they can on a Bass Guitar? "

or

"Is it possible for anyone to play on a Double Bass, anything that possibly could be played on a Bass Guitar?"

[This is what Philosophy teaches you - or at least my degree did - that how you phrase the question affects what answer you get. Or more accurately - Philosophy can help you phrase questions to ask exacrtly what you meant to ....it just can't give you the answer!]:D




:confused: Wow. Now I need some aspirin...

Is that what Ed might have called LINDFIELDOPHY?That was extremely conbruceing... :)

Originally posted by Bruce Lindfield
Some people seem able to! Like Christian McBride - he plays things on DB that I can't play on BG! Like on his version of Havona off his "SciFi" album, he plays Jaco's BG part from the Weather Report album, note for note, before breaking off for his solo!!

I have also heard/seen NHØP play stuff on DB that I know I could never play on BG! I'm sure he could play anything on DB, that I could play on BG. ;)
OK

I can't play much of anything on DB, so I guess my answer to the question is YES.

(you figure it out )

Well, so in a nutshell, a person would choose DB for the sound, not... playability, right? I don't know why, I was gonna try out DB, but if you can't do really fast stuff, or tapping, or slapping (BG style), you can still do arco, plucking, and slapping.

I don't know what I'm trying to say, but what was your reason for choosing DB over BG? I think most of you will say sound but oh well.

Originally posted by ThePaste
Well, so in a nutshell, a person would choose DB for the sound, not... playability, right? I don't know why, I was gonna try out DB, but if you can't do really fast stuff, or tapping, or slapping (BG style), you can still do arco, plucking, and slapping.

I don't know what I'm trying to say, but what was your reason for choosing DB over BG? I think most of you will say sound but oh well.


Well, in the first place, there's THE SOUND. Then, when you start to get a little deeper into it, there's THE SOUND. After that, when you really start to get good, you start to develop a deep appreciation for THE SOUND.

Oh, and DB's look cool, too.

In a nut shell that is funny. The only thing in a nut shell should be nuts.

Don't pick up a DB if you want to tap, pinch harmonics like Jaco or slap like Flea.

Pick up a DB for the same reason I did, I hides my gut better than a BG. :D

Originally posted by ThePaste

I don't know what I'm trying to say, but what was your reason for choosing DB over BG? I think most of you will say sound but oh well.

As we all suspected! :rolleyes:

Ask the right question and you might get the right answer! ;)

Actually I would have had a DB by now if I hadn't had my car broken into and my roof collapse this year! :(

But my reasons would probably be different - it would basically be to get taken seriously in Jazz, as a bass player. I do like the sound of DB - especially for slow ballads; but I think it also has many drawbacks, in terms of being heard and quite often, the subtleties of the sound are lost even in a small club.

And often the amplification I have heard that actually works and doesn't just introduce feedback, makes me think that the player might just as well be playing an EUB as all the acoustic tone is lost.

There are so many disadvantages to DB that I sometimes think that all DB players must be much more dedicated than I could ever be.

So : the thing is harder to get about - probably wouldn't fit in my car - would be impossible to practice in my small flat, would probably give me blisters and more wrist/hand fatigue than I've ever known, would probably get dropped and fall apart, a decent one would cost more than twice the amount I've ever paid for a BG, would be adversely affected by the weather, every note requires concentration on intonation etc. etc.

But I go along to my local Jazz club each week and see Double Bassists playing wonderful stuff - just makes me marvel at their dedication every time!

I don't know if anyone who's not taken some time with a DB can REALLY understand the attractions. IMO, having an outlet where a DB really shines is half the battle..you can't really make it something it's not. Conversely, you can't get THAT SOUND from anything else.

A lot of what I love about it is the challenge of taking a primitive (yet elegant and beautiful) and demanding instrument and getting useable sounds out of it. I get the same amount of gratification (maybe more) just solidly driving a bluegrass band with root-Vs and simple walking lines as pyrotechnics on an electric. I can't imagine what kind of joy I'd derive from doing a killer swinging, jazzy gig competently. One day!

The vibe, the vibe, oh the vibe.........

Walk with a BG then walk with a DB. The force is stong is here on the DB side....join us my son

Originally posted by farmerdude
The vibe, the vibe, oh the vibe.........

Walk with a BG then walk with a DB. The force is stong is here on the DB side....join us my son


Indeed. But remember, there would be reprocussions...not the least of which might me that you'd probably want to change your username to THE HIDE GLUE.....

Originally posted by ThePaste
I don't know what I'm trying to say, but what was your reason for choosing DB over BG? I think most of you will say sound but oh well.

The sound. You can't bow a toybass. It takes more technique, but you can play all the same stuff.

Wow it took me about 5 minutes to realise that you were referring to "The Paste" - senility is approaching fast for me!

I'm sure that if I got one of the things, I would be seduced in no time, which is one of the main reasons why I have wavered for so long. I always find that I only ever play or practice on one instrument and if I got hooked on DB, it would take me about a year to get the set down for my current main gig, that I play on BG.

But as MChildree says - the "joy I'd derive from doing a killer swinging, jazzy gig competently" is what draws me closer every year. Bassists are in short supply round here and I could keep going with regular gigs for another 30 years if I get a stool!

Walk with a BG then walk with a DB. The force is stong is here on the DB side....join us my son
Indeed. But remember, there would be reprocussions...not the least of which might me that you'd probably want to change your username to THE HIDE GLUE.....

...you'd also want to get a wheel after about 20 yards.

Originally posted by David Kaczorowski The sound. You can't bow a toybass.

You can pretend to "bow" a toybass using Ebow. Not the same at all, but it's an attempt to emulate bowing.

There's actually quite a bit that feels more comfortable to me on DB than on BG. Really, the only BG stuff that I play that would be difficult to replicate on DB are a handful of basslines that do double-and-triple stops which would be tough to play in tune without having frets to help out.

In practice, I tend to approach the instruments in completely different ways. It's not merely frets vs no frets or scale length or pressure applied. It's also different LH and RH techniques, a different physical relationship to the playing area of the instrument (vertical fingerboard vs horizontal fretboard) that all conspire to make BG and DB different instruments in a way that say fretted and fretless BG are not.

Ed,

Good to see you back. Have you found "one" yet?

Originally posted by Ed Fuqua
:)

You Don't Know Where One Is



I love it!

John Ray musta played with that $%^#((U*(# Pianist I played with Friday & Saturday. Cat made the bridge to "Days of Wine and Roses" 7 bars every time! The trumpet player (who was in Woddy Herman's band) stopped playing, glared at him, and said "well F*CK ME!! I about died laughing, this is in the nicest and priciest eaterie in Oklahoma City...

Monte

Often when I decide to move a song from EB to DB, its because I hear something else entirely as a line. The two instruments have such different sounds and dynamics that even a note for note line sounds entirely different on either one. So yeah, play what you hear in your head, but all I know is usually what I hear in my head isn't just an abstract set of notes, but a set of notes as played on a particular instrument. Sometimes not, but usually so...

Originally posted by ThePaste

I don't know what I'm trying to say, but what was your reason for choosing DB over BG? I think most of you will say sound but oh well.

Also - from the BG OT forum - thread on Punk Culture ( :rolleyes: ) :

09-22-2001 09:41 AM

ThePaste
Member
Upgrade Available



Registered: Dec 2000
Posts: 850
Location: West Virginia USA


Bruce Lindfield:

I don't really want a double bass, I was just curious.


__________________

To answer the original question: Yes I can play anything on one instrument that I can on the other.

I can't, however, make the EBG take the place of a DB on a bluegrass song any more than I can make the DB take the place of the BG on most rock songs.

The notes are the same but the sound is totally different to me.

It's like comparing a snare to a bass drum. You can play the same pattern and they are both drums but that's where the similarity ends.

They really are two very different instruments with similar applications.

Your opinions very well may differ from mine but that's the way I see the question, or should I say answer?

Pkr2

No. Though many may disagree, they're two different instruments, and I play each in an entirely different bag. Admittedly, because of the way my bass is set up, there's no way I could reach the level of speed and stamina that I can on the electric.

One night, my straight-ahead jazz group decided to do a funk tune just for kicks (Tough Talk by the Crusaders). If I'd played the tune on electric, I might have played many more notes, a lot of muted stuff, maybe even some thumping. But being technically restricted on the upright, I was forced to choose my notes (and where I put them) much more carefully. I liked the groove better, and it made me re-evaluate how I might play this kind of a groove the next time I pick up the electric.

I am a new member here and thought I'd give my $0.02. Why is there this *battle* between the electric players and the upright players? It seems that the negative vibe comes more from the upright school; some of those cats just *will* not accept the electric bass...does that mean Jaco was a foolish bastard? I think not. There's room for both; don't you upright players love funk, or R&B, or thrash metal even, stuff that may be inappropriate for the upright? I'm a *musician* first, bassist second. Point being, there's so much music out there why dis instruments? Maybe you think 'jazz' should be played on an upright. Well, have you ever seen Jimmy Haslip? None of it is invalid...I can't say I love every single style of music but as players we should be *much* more open than the avg. joe who only listens to Limp Bizkit and Korn (or Miles and Monk, for that matter). Open your ears, hearts, and minds!!!

Originally posted by Ed Fuqua
PLAY MUSIC, NOT THE INSTRUMENT

Thank you Ed. This statement should appear on every page of this web site.

FF

Originally posted by peteroberts
I ...don't you upright players love.......thrash metal even,

Hell no...
Most of us have done the electric thing for a while so we know the comparison...we invite you to spend 1 year on a DB, only then will you know what we are talking about.

Originally posted by peteroberts
I am a new member here and thought I'd give my $0.02. Why is there this *battle* between the electric players and the upright players? It seems that the negative vibe comes more from the upright school; some of those cats just *will* not accept the electric bass...does that mean Jaco was a foolish bastard? I think not. There's room for both; don't you upright players love funk, or R&B, or thrash metal even, stuff that may be inappropriate for the upright? I'm a *musician* first, bassist second. Point being, there's so much music out there why dis instruments? Maybe you think 'jazz' should be played on an upright. Well, have you ever seen Jimmy Haslip? None of it is invalid...I can't say I love every single style of music but as players we should be *much* more open than the avg. joe who only listens to Limp Bizkit and Korn (or Miles and Monk, for that matter). Open your ears, hearts, and minds!!!


PERTROBOTS,

Welcome to Talkbass! The "Toybass-bashing" stuff is really tongue-in-cheek on most people's parts down here since many - if not most - of us double on Slab. I haven't played my fretless Plank since I got decent enough on DB to cover my jazz gigs, but I still use my fretted Canoe Paddle regularly on gigs where doubling is required, and I have my eye (if not yet my financial resources) on a fretted Ken Smith 6 that will someday be mine, mine, all mine....

Of course, you may feel free to get offended at whatever you wish, but most of what you read in this thread from the "DB snobs" is just a bunch of goofy bass dorks having a little fun. FWIW.

DURRL

that's cool, but that's not the vibe outside of this forum. Have you ever read Anthony Jackson's comments in the cover story of 'Bass Player' December 1994? The attitude does exist, and prevails in some situations. I just bought an upright after struggling with the idea for years; my not buying one was largely due to the attitude lots of jazz cats had towards the electric. I mean, they sit there and dis' the electric, then carry their electric piano around everywhere. That's hypocrisy. Anyways, just venting, mostly. I have been playing at the 'doghouse' for a couple of days now and I think I'm going to enjoy it.

....as far as that vibe you mentioned..well the only vibe coming from this side is the sweet vibration of a hollow body of wood, resounding throughout the room, through the temperature, off the walls, and through the crowd...a sweet tone that makes a real guitar player throw down the pick and lay some finger on those strings, a tone that makes a drummer ...well um....., a tone that makes a trumpet player dig in with his bottom lip and blow from way down deep, a tone that makes a woman go "oh yea", and a tone that makes the band leader go "bring on that vibe!!.:eek::eek:....…............................ .......................well it was good for me anyway:cool:

groovy that.

Well, I don't know about yous guys, but I play wedding gigs on the Slab and music gigs on The Bass. I don't think that I would want to play on the Bass what I play on the Slab in this case :)

As far a facility, I'm considerably faster on The Bass, and have done a fair share of Brasilian funk (MPB) and Motown on my Bass. Granted I'm exhausted after 4 hours of eigth note funk this way, but it can be done.

Originally posted by peteroberts
that's cool, but that's not the vibe outside of this forum.

Maybe if you search the site you'll find the history of the toybass and realbass monikers. You might find it interesting.

FWIW, spend some time with the realbass and you'll come to understand the toybass.

No...i cannot play everything on both DB and EB. But i can play some on DB that i cannot on EB, and some on EB that i cannot on DB. High chops are extremely are on DB, considering the string tension...and the DB also has a bow, which gives you things to do on it that you cant on EB...oh well, ill stick to both for now.

peace
:cool:

No...i cannot play everything on both DB and EB. But i can play some on DB that i cannot on EB, and some on EB that i cannot on DB. High chops are extremely are on DB, considering the string tension...and the DB also has a bow, which gives you things to do on it that you cant on EB...oh well, ill stick to both for now.



Public school victim?

hell yes.

Yes yes yes, a bit late I know. Anyway...


The sound. You can't bow a toybass. It takes more technique, but you can play all the same stuff.

Ever heard of the E-Bow?

Electric Bow Homepage (http://www.ebow.com/ebow/flash/index.htm)

I use it randomly, especially with my loop-station to make chords and sound-scapes! :bassist:

From another who doubles, I only wish I could be as fluent in the upper register on UB as I am on EB. That's my ongoing project these days. Overall, I think the EB technique is still a good bit easier for me DB even though I've played upright just a few years less than electric. I just haven't found an overwhelming reason to change that(it's about the SOUND). I'm one of those people whose upright playing has made the electric seem like playing a ukelele, a little warmup and off you go. The trouble is there's a point to where you cease to play musically when the technical stuff is so easy and you need to always listen to what's going on and keep yourself in check with that kind of thing.

Ike

Okay, what happened to Ed Fuqua's post? you're all quoting him, but I can't see it on my computer. Maybe the firewall won't let anything starting in "f-u" through...

My credentials: Bass guitar - 30 years, double bass - less than 1 year.

In the months I've had the DB I've had more "hair on the back of the neck moments" while playing it than in 30 years of BG.

Not that that answers the original question. But then you might as well ask if you can play the same thing on trombone as on trumpet. Yes, given time, but they're very different, so it might not always be appropriate. I prefer to revel in the differences than try to make one stand in for the other.

I made the switch mostly for sound reasons, plus I was getting way to involved in playing "connect the frets" instead of playing music. Now when I pick up th BG I notice I play more musically, thinking about color, texture, groove. Moving to DB has really helped me to become more musical again. But to answer the question, technically I can't because of all the reasons mentioned before. On the other hand, my concept stays the same I believe each instrument serves the same role in an ensemble no matter what the style is, so my playing has a similarity on each.

Plus, and I can't believe nobody has mentioned this yet, chicks really dig a DB player! :hyper:

Don't think its been mentioned yet on this thread, but for me a key difference is in the time feel, especially on swing.

There are plenty of great players who can do a lot of great stuff on either instrument. But I think there is a distinctly different (and to my taste more appealing) character to the swing feel that comes from the pizzed double bass compared to a bass guitar. Even with various straight-time grooves, the whole time feel seems different to me when played on an double bass.

I wonder if anyone else notices this, or is it "all in my mind" .

Meanwhile, to add my $.02 to the discussion about DB players who seem to look down their noses at slab players, I think the reason is simple. Most musicians who concentrate on one instrument grow to love their chosen axe over time. Based on my own experience, the double bass in particular can really get under your skin; I love the the stupid thing passionately and obsessively. I am sure that many or most slab players love their bass guitars, but I do observe that most doublers I know seem to end up loving the double bass and maybe just liking the slab "as friends". Anyway, DB passion can easily lead to a natural chauvinism amongst DB players that ours is the "real bass". If this bugs you, then just ignore us and love your guitar.

For my part, I listen to all sorts of music, with the bottom end filled by all sorts of instruments. There are plenty of great slab players who have my highest respect as musicians and I really like their work. But guess what? - I personally have no interest whatsoever in playing the thing; I just want to play the DB.

I've been playing electric bass guitar for about 15years and changed to double bass about 8 years ago cos my teacher said I would get more work.
He was right and I now play full time, almost exclusively on upright but I'm starting to get back into electric again.

I love both instruments and there are things about both that stir my soul ie Ray Brown's time feel and huge sound or James Jamerson's groove and melodic support, Rocco's in the pocket 16th's or NHOP's insane technique.

I like to take bits of each of these and other influences and express them in the way I play in my mainstream contemporary Jazz band.

The time feel is definately different with an upright and on swing especially, more authentic but there are cats that can swing on electric as much as there are cats that can play funky or rocky upright.

Other than things that my technical deficiencies won't allow, the main reason that I pick one over the other is sound. I do everything on a gig on my upright but in the studio I might play electric on a tune because the song may need a tighter sound.


Cheers
H