You play really clean and even, like all those scary cats do. Are you just going index/middle index/middle all the time or are you doing something else. You mentioned in another thread that for the Hanon piano exercise book you can the metronome up to 400 bpm. If you're doing eighth notes at that tempo I will hang a poster of you up on the ceiling of my bedroom.

Creepily yours,

Glenn:hiding:

Glenn,

For playing lines, I do just use my index and middle fingers. And I can wind the metronome up to 400 and play lines pretty cleanly like that.

No need to hang a poster on your bedroom ceiling though..... first of all you should have a poster of Carmen Electra, Selma Hayek or Jenna Jamison..... someone REALLY inspiring.

Second of all, just hang a few pages of the Hannon next to those chicks and make sure you work on it every day, and that stuff will come naturally enough.

Easy,

Janek

Good message Janek. Folks get too hung up on the mechanics. If guarantee if you practice 4-6 hours a day for a year you will achieve scary-good technique.

Janek,

When you say 400bpm, you're playing 8th notes at that speed ? Hitting every note with the right hand ? Or does it involve some hammering-on to be faster ?

Thanks,

Ninn

Well for the purpose of the exercise, I will hit every note with the right hand index and middle fingers. And they will be 8th notes. But for playing lines and being musical, there are all sorts of legato slurs and hammers etc... that's what gives a line shape, even at that tempo.

Please note that I don't just start out at 400bpm. There's a slow methodical way to get to that tempo by working those Hannon exercises up from about 60bmp to 400bmp. Start really slow so you give your hands a chance to aclimatize to the routine. Then you can be fully warmed up and lose by the time you hit those faster tempos. Also, and this is even harder in my opinion, try coming back down from 400 all the way to 60. This will increase your control over the instrument more than you can imagine. It will teach you not to rush slower tempos when you've been playing fast.

Easy,

Janek

Can't hit the 400 mark, and it's probaly due to my technique. I generally use just my index finger (Ala Jamerson). I started as a guitar player before I fell in love with bass. When I started playing bass, I used a pick exclusivley (Comfort factor). when trying to develop finger style, I just naturally used one finger. I can hit the 220 mark with this playing 8th notes, and am currently trying to break this habbit and use index/middle.

well hitting the 400 mark is not really the mark of anything musical, purely technical.

And most of the stuff I like listening to as a human being involves James Jamerson playing with one finger, quarter and eighth notes at 120bpm.........

I have this technique so as not to come across a situation where I can't get out a musical idea I have due to technique deficiency. The music is beyond the technique, so please don't feel it's something that is 100% essential, being musical and original are the two things that are 100% essential.

Easy,

Janek

I agree that it is purley for technique. Most music worth listening to does not goe past the 200 mark, anyway.

hey i've never heard of hannon can somoene tell me what that is?

It's a book of piano exercises called "Hannon - The virtuoso Pianist"

It really doesn't matter what the book is, or the exercise. Just as long as you have something that evenly spreads you technique across your instrument and developes strength in your fingers and hands, as well as muscle memory in the brain so you know your instrument inside out.

These things will lead to effortless technique.

Easy,

Janek

I agree that it is purley for technique. Most music worth listening to does not goe past the 200 mark, anyway.

There's a zillion bop tunes that go way beyond 200.

hey i've never heard of hannon can somoene tell me what that is?

I've seen this book in 2 volumes, but I have a version from Alfred that is in one volume. It's really affordable and a great addition to your music library no matter what instrument you play. My copy cost me $6.50, but I've had it for several years so it's probably a little more now.

Look for:
Hanon
"The Virtuoso Pianist In 60 Exercises - Complete"

Thanks for mentioning this collection of exercises. It made me go drag mine out. I'm gonna work through the 1st one next time I sit down to practice. I can do it on the piano, but it might be a little tricky on the bass.

I also remember seeing these exercises used in George Vance's book "Vade Mecum" for Double Bass.

Joe

There's a zillion bop tunes that go way beyond 200.

A zillion?!?! :eek:

Joe

Think about it. 200 is a medium tempo.

A zillion???

;)
Joe

Gues I am an old foggy when it comes to my taste in music. Even when I am writing a song with someone, If the tempo is above 200, I tend to slow the bass line down. Kinda like "Lost Girl" in the music link of my Sig.

Gues I am an old foggy when it comes to my taste in music. Even when I am writing a song with someone, If the tempo is above 200, I tend to slow the bass line down. Kinda like "Lost Girl" in the music link of my Sig.

I think some of you are confused. Janek's not talking about 200bpm at 16ths (metronome on 2 & 4). He's talking about 8ths at 400bpm.

I'm not actually trying to talk about speed at all.

I don't care what tempo a song is at. Having a flawless facility throughout the range of sonic and technical possibilities on your instrument is what I was trying to get at. Just having a seamless route from your brain to the listener through your instrument is important. If it comes out at whole notes @ 40bpm, or 16th notes at 220bpm, it doesn't matter. As long as it's musical, original, heartfelt, and open..... then who cares?

Easy,

Janek

I think some of you are confused. Janek's not talking about 200bpm at 16ths (metronome on 2 & 4). He's talking about 8ths at 400bpm.
That's what I thought he was talking about, but when the discussion came up of a Zillion songs over 200bpm, I over thought it.

Janek, I think the focus got away from technique and into being musical at that speed. If I contributed to that confusion, I am sorry. But, I get what you are saying.

I found this link to .pdf files of the Hanon exercises.

http://www.sheetmusicarchive.net/single_listing.cfm?composer_id=7

Joe

thats awesome man. Do you guys usually just do the parts that are in the right octave for bass or just do it in a different octave if its too low?

thats awesome man. Do you guys usually just do the parts that are in the right octave for bass or just do it in a different octave if its too low?

I play a 6 string (BEADGC), so I can do both.

http://www.sheetmusicarchive.net/single_listing.cfm?composer_id=7



How do you actually download anything from the site? I just get a message saying that I'm restricted to two downloads a day but no option to actually download anything :hmm:

Cheers,
Alun

How do you actually download anything from the site? I just get a message saying that I'm restricted to two downloads a day but no option to actually download anything :hmm:

Cheers,
Alun
Even if you just click on two of the links, it thinks you have downloaded them. Tommorow, click on one link, and you should have a download button there. Dowload that one before going to any other link in the site.

Janek, I remember reading an interview where you stated you use a four-finger technique going thumb-ring-middle-index. Have you decided to give this up, or do you keep it aside just for fast runs, etc.?

Bryan,

I haven't given that technique up by any means. I just don't use it all the time. That technique is very much a focus of Matthew Garrisons concept and sound so I try not to use it too much at all. I'm trying to make sure it's a facility that is used as a true form of expression, and not just a technique to make cats say "DANG!" or "WOW!" or even worse "Man that guy sounds just like Matt Garrison".

I'm working with my sound and note selection to create a unique voice in music, not just the bass. Maybe it'll happen? maybe it wont? I don't know yet. It's not something that happens overnight, and it's certainly not something that happens when you've only played on a few records as I have. About 150 or so.

I did just get a very abusive email from a bass player telling me how sad it was that I sounded exactly like Matthew Garrison, that I wore rings on my right hand to be more like him, and that this musician couldn't tell any players who have a high C-string apart.

And I quote:

"I've known Matt 20 years and he's spawned a whole slew of clones who play his bass, wear the same rings on their fingers as he does, use the same playing techniques he does, it's really too bad. All those bass players with all that talent and they pour it all into sounding like Matt. What a waste."

This was very upsetting and disturbing to be honest. And, on a purely sonic level, made me more concious of not being someone else, and being myself. Although I have never thought of myself as a clone of anyone, including Matthew Garrison.

There was no excuse for this email, it was horrendous, long, abusive and disheartening. I can't stand that level of negativity and malice. Not just because this person sent it to me, but in general. There's no reason for that stuff. Even if you just don't like someone's playing, either keep your mouth shut and don't let it worry you, or have the balls to tell them straight up and be honest.

Sorry for the rant in the end, but I think this might be a good example of trying to be more positive towards each other whether we like each other's playing or not.

Easy,

Janek

Wow, that sounds like a pretty harsh email. I actually think it's a great (and necessary) thing for there to be more "clones" out there in a sense. Back in college, many of my teachers would say, "good artists copy, great ones steal." That is to say that you should blatantly steal all you can from all the folks that influence you, as there's no point in trying to be completely unique, as there is really very little that hasn't been done in one form or another before you. I've always felt the best way to create something new is to comine several things that are old. If more guys out there started copying Michael Manring, who is doing something very unique in bass today, eventually that would get expanded into something even broader.

As far as you and Matt, I do hear a similarity although it's not in the technique- more of the frequent use of Lydians and some of the phrasing. But (from the one album of your I have), you've taken things that are similar to what he does and put it into a more standard groove-oriented bass role to see how it works (and I think it works great). I hear the influence and the originality mix, and it sounds great- I'd rather hear someone's influences hinted at in their playing than someone trying to be desparately original any day of the week. To say you sound exactly like Garrison means the guy hasn't taken the time to listen to you OR Garrison though. Similarities, yes. The same? Not even close.

Truth be told though, I think MORE people should copy Matt's plucking, or Manring's altered tunings, or Gary Willis' approach, etc., as once that stuff gets out there and becomes more mainstream, someone else will take it to the next level. It's all rungs in a ladder to me. On a side note, the horns section on your album is the freshest I've heard in a long time- I really, really dug them.

How do you actually download anything from the site? I just get a message saying that I'm restricted to two downloads a day but no option to actually download anything :hmm:

Cheers,
Alun

Go to http://www.sheetmusicarchive.net and start from there. Scroll to the bottom of the page and click on Hanon. It will take you to his exercises. I didn't have any problems downloading.

Hope this helps.
Joe

Even if you just click on two of the links, it thinks you have downloaded them. Tommorow, click on one link, and you should have a download button there. Dowload that one before going to any other link in the site.

Thank you sir. That worked (and if you disable cookies on your browser you can have more than two a day :hyper: ).

And now to practice.....

Cheers,
Alun

I've downloaded all the Hanon exercises (don't even need to disable cookies, just need to tweak the URL once you view the first .pdf file).

I'm going to put them on my site so we don't kill SheetMusicArchive's bandwidth. Watch this space for the URL.

[Edit]
Here's a link from my site so we don't kill the other site's bandwidth. (http://mypicspace.home.comcast.net/Hanon/Hanon.html)

Hi Janek. A quick question on how you use the Hanon books - I've been skimming through them to see what's there before I start playing through and have come across the chordal material in Book Three. Out of interest, do you play this stuff on bass (eg the trills in sixths) as well as the earlier single note material?

Cheers
Alun

I've downloaded all the Hanon exercises (don't even need to disable cookies, just need to tweak the URL once you view the first .pdf file).

I'm going to put them on my site so we don't kill SheetMusicArchive's bandwidth. Watch this space for the URL.

[Edit]
Here's a link from my site so we don't kill the other site's bandwidth. (http://mypicspace.home.comcast.net/Hanon/Hanon.html)

Thanks, Dave! The last one appears dead, just so you know.

I've used only the scale and arpeggio exercises from the Hannon book so far.

Well for the purpose of the exercise, I will hit every note with the right hand index and middle fingers. And they will be 8th notes. But for playing lines and being musical, there are all sorts of legato slurs and hammers etc... that's what gives a line shape, even at that tempo.

Please note that I don't just start out at 400bpm. There's a slow methodical way to get to that tempo by working those Hannon exercises up from about 60bmp to 400bmp. Start really slow so you give your hands a chance to aclimatize to the routine. Then you can be fully warmed up and lose by the time you hit those faster tempos. Also, and this is even harder in my opinion, try coming back down from 400 all the way to 60. This will increase your control over the instrument more than you can imagine. It will teach you not to rush slower tempos when you've been playing fast.

Easy,

Janek

Janek,

I know you're probably sick of this topic by now, but I need some clarity. This thread has inspired me to work on the 1st Hanon exercise. I really appreciate the motivation.

The exercise is notated in 16th notes. At this point, I am having the metronome click quarter notes. I have gotten up to 92bmp. This sounds really fast to me right now. I'm not rushing the process because I want to keep my playing clean and accurate.

The Hanon book suggests a metronome range of 60-108bpm. I'm not far from the 108.

Did you say that you could do this exercise at 200bpm clicking quarter notes (keeping in mind that the exercise is notated in 16th notes)???

Janek... I can't even imagine what that would sound/look like. I would really love to hear and/or see that. I don't doubt you at all. I just can't imagine it.

This might be asking a lot; but, is there any chance that you could post yourself playing the 1st Hanon exercise?

Joe

that's a good question. I'll go and look at it again and see what is what. I'm not really concious of quarter notes/sixteenth notes etc, I just play the exercises.

I'll get back on that one shortly.

Janek

okay,

so with no slurring and playing every note as evenly as I could....

I got the metronome up to about 185bpm. That's 16th notes. or the same as playing 8th notes at around 370bpm.

I have played many jam sessions where we've experimented with tempos. I used to play with a Trombone player from Rhode Island who teaches at berklee, and we were regularly at 400bpm palying a standard. He could play 8th notes on a trombone at 420bpm. That's using air and a tongue!!!! incredible. but only incredible if it's done musically.

The people who have the real chops and technique are the ones who can actually think at those speeds and create lines, and move through changes. Not someone who can play a scale at that speed, or some funk line over and over again.

Easy,

Janek

Just did a few minutes of warming up... which is what I should have done first and wound it up another 5bpm.

but that's pretty tough. And you MUST!!! practice right if you're going to spend any length of time working at those high tempo exercises. You will injure yourself before you know it. When I got to Berklee in 1998 there were tons of cats who thought that because they were at school they had to shed 10hrs a day, having never done that before. I lost count of the amount of cats who were just walking around school not being able to play because they had injured themselves trying to do too much.

Work into it slowly, and be very patient. Those kinds of chops and level of technique take years and years to perfect.

Easy,

Janek

185bpm (quarter notes) is still an amazing tempo for that etude. :eek:

I also saw some musicians in college fall behind because of injury. It's a shame. In college I studied classical double bass. I was very careful not to hurt myself. The double bass is a very physical instrument. I do remember playing in the Messiah and having an amazing amount of pain in my left shoulder that I almost set my bass down and left the stage in mid-performance. I take time to stretch when I feel tension. I should probably stretch before tension, but...

I didn't fall in love with electric bass until a few years after college. I am hooked. Playing electric bass is like a drug for me. I am even considering selling my double bass and getting an electric upright. I got my eye on a 5 string (EADGC) Ned Steinberger upright bass.

Anyhow, concerning the Hanon exercise: I practice it 2-3 times each day. I take my tempo from 100bpm to wherever I can get it, and then back down again. I have been coming up with better fingering solutions. This seems to help me improve my accuracy. I am really trying to improve the coordination between my left and right hand. I dig the way Jimmy Haslip sounds. His sound is so clean and accurate. I want that.

I don't try to play fast when I solo. You can hear me solo on Autumn Leaves on my bass page. I do feel that practicing etudes like the Hanon give me more control over my technique in general, even when I'm playing slow.

Thanks for taking the time to clarify the Hanon for me.

Joe

PS. Could we get a little sound clip of you doing the Hanon etude? :bassist:

sound clip.......

that would be cool huh?

I'll see what I can do.

Things are stupid busy right now with the studio and the most stupid month of gigs and travelling coming, but keep on at me about it and I'll knock it out I'm sure.

I'm also doing a master class in NYC on the 26th of September if anyone is around. All the details are on my myspace page below. And also one in LA for anyone on the west coast at the end of the month. I'll be in LA for about 5 days doing a bunch of stuff and the Musicians institute grabbed me for a two hour masterclass which should be loads of fun. I think I'm going to get Airto to come out and hang and play and talk too. So it should be lots of fun all round.

Easy,

Janek

I'm also doing a master class in NYC on the 26th of September if anyone is around. All the details are on my myspace page below.

I'll be there.

sound clip.......

that would be cool huh?

I'll see what I can do.

Things are stupid busy right now with the studio and the most stupid month of gigs and travelling coming, but keep on at me about it and I'll knock it out I'm sure.

Thanks man!

Joe

Thanks, Dave! The last one appears dead, just so you know.

Just noticed your post. All the Hannon (Hanon?) files are on my PC at work so I'll try to upload part 3 on Monday.

[Edit]
Part 3 has been uploaded, the link works now.

Janek,

Just curious, how many of the Hanon exercises did you/do you do? There are a lot of them and some of then don't transfer to bass very well.

Joe

I think I used about 3 or 4 of them some years back when I was shedding more technique stuff.

It's probably the ones that don'es transfer to bass very well that will do you the most good. Anything that gets you thinking unlike anything that has gone before is a good thing. It'll lead to innovation with the music and the instrument.

Easy,

Janek

I think I used about 3 or 4 of them some years back when I was shedding more technique stuff.

It's probably the ones that don'es transfer to bass very well that will do you the most good. Anything that gets you thinking unlike anything that has gone before is a good thing. It'll lead to innovation with the music and the instrument.

Easy,

Janek

Thanks for the reply. I don't think you could really do these etudes on the bass, but I guess anything is possible. The etudes I'm talking about are the ones with 3 and 4 note chords played in 16th notes. I guess it could happen. We'll have to get Michael Manring to show us those. ;)

Joe