Todd,
I started your "Technique Builders" DVD tonight, and really think it will be a great asset to my learning. I just did the first three exercises, and I can really feel the "burn" of learning to play properly.

My question is about where to place the thumb behind the neck. My original left hand position was to rest the heel of my palm against the back of the neck, leaving my thumb resting lightly, parallel to the base. Now that my palm is free below the neck, I find myself pressing really hard with my thumb straight against the back of the neck. This doesn't feel right, and hurts my wrist at the base of my thumb.

Any corrections or advise that will help?

Whenever I see a post about position, I show the Adam Nitti image:

http://www.adamnitti.com/images/lessons/bassplayer_03/fig2.jpg

Joe

Hi Bill,

The picture that Joe posted is pretty much it!!! Everyone's hands are slightly different, ..... so there's a little "wiggle" room involved. Use your common sense here.....

Hopefully the picture I'm posting will work.....

It's Dave LaRue on the far left..... Adam Nitti.....Manring.......Me. Sorry, I couldn't get anyone better! Ha!;) You can see my left hand.... it's basically what the other photo shows.........This should re-enforce the picture that Joe posted.

I hope this helps!

thanks a lot joe and todd thos pics helped me with left hand Position.

thanks a lot joe and todd thos pics helped me with left hand Position.


You're totally welcome........

I'm here to help.......

Is the wrist and thumb better??? Remember....you don't have to squeeze it to death.... ;) ....RELAX....BREATH....

That ALWAYS helps me....:cool:

I've been doing the first group of exercises for a few weeks now, and I am really amazed at how better I am playing them. My hand and fingers are getting stronger, so I am no longer squeezing very hard. The feeling in my left hand is much better. Your exercises are an amazing asset to my practice.

Another question, though. Is there anything I can do to increase the spread between my second and third fingers? I can't quit make them stretch from one fret to the next, so the supportive fingering exercise is still very difficult. When I curl my left fingers naturally, the tip of my ring finger automatically angles towards my second finger, so much that they almost touch. My right hand doesn't do this nearly as much, in fact I can move those fingers parallel to each other. Not so on my left hand. Is this just a bone structure I will have to work around, or are there exercises that will help straighten and stretch my ring finger?

I've been doing the first group of exercises for a few weeks now, and I am really amazed at how better I am playing them. My hand and fingers are getting stronger, so I am no longer squeezing very hard. The feeling in my left hand is much better. Your exercises are an amazing asset to my practice.

Another question, though. Is there anything I can do to increase the spread between my second and third fingers? I can't quit make them stretch from one fret to the next, so the supportive fingering exercise is still very difficult. When I curl my left fingers naturally, the tip of my ring finger automatically angles towards my second finger, so much that they almost touch. My right hand doesn't do this nearly as much, in fact I can move those fingers parallel to each other. Not so on my left hand. Is this just a bone structure I will have to work around, or are there exercises that will help straighten and stretch my ring finger?


Hi Bill,

This is a tough one to fix over the internet..........I REALLY need to see you play in order to give you an accurate opinion!!

Ideally, we could get together for a private lesson and I could really help you deal with this one way or the other.

Where do you live????

I'm in L.A. .........I don't know if this is possible or not....who knows.....I might be in your area at some point???

Anyway........

My best guess is that it's a combination of the way you're built.....AND you'll also need to do some adjusting etc. Make sense???

Remember, that OVER TIME.... these things can be fixed....OR .... made as good as you can get 'em.

I hope this helps.

I'm here to serve.

Hey, a private lesson would be priceless. But I'm on the east coast in SC, so not very likely. I'll keep on talkbass, though, so if your ever anywhere near,maybe we can set something up. The exercises are really helping my fingering in every way, and I am getting much better at keeping my down fingures still while moving just one. Man, that was really difficult the first couple of weeks, just like you said on the DVD. But my ring finger just doesn't want to stay extended all the way up the next fret, and when I pull my index fingure back to the G string, the ring fingure slides to the second finger. Hey, and this isn't even the hand I broke in college!!

All of the other exercises are awesome, and I really appreciate your DVDs. Other than this one problem, I am noticing great improvement in my finger coordination, and my playing has really gotten better. I would recommend your DVDs to anyone!!

Hey, a private lesson would be priceless. But I'm on the east coast in SC, so not very likely. I'll keep on talkbass, though, so if your ever anywhere near,maybe we can set something up. The exercises are really helping my fingering in every way, and I am getting much better at keeping my down fingures still while moving just one. Man, that was really difficult the first couple of weeks, just like you said on the DVD. But my ring finger just doesn't want to stay extended all the way up the next fret, and when I pull my index fingure back to the G string, the ring fingure slides to the second finger. Hey, and this isn't even the hand I broke in college!!

All of the other exercises are awesome, and I really appreciate your DVDs. Other than this one problem, I am noticing great improvement in my finger coordination, and my playing has really gotten better. I would recommend your DVDs to anyone!!


Hey, thanks Bill.... I really appreciate your kind words and your support.

I "might" be coming back east in the next year or so.... there's a few things on the table.....rumors etc....just waiting for people to make up their minds....... I'll be sure to post any clinic info on my forum for sure....

Anyway.... If I can get back there, then let's make a point of getting together for a lesson. It'd be an honor to meet you and work on some music together.

Oh, ..... please be sure to go to my new YouTube.com channel...Go to http://www.youtube.com/user/toddjohnsonmusic and check out my "channel".....

I've got some videos of me soloing over "Autumn Leaves" and "Green Dolphin Street"....plus I'm also doing my "solo bass" version of "Battle Hymn of the Republic"....

If that weren't enough.....there's also a "5 string X-drill" clip from my Technique Builders DVD....We're talking "BONUS FOOTAGE"....

I'll also have a "FLOATING THUMB" clip in addition to a bunch of concert footage coming in the next week or so.....:hyper:

Please be sure to rate the video, add me as a friend etc. or leave a comment or two.....

Check it out...YouTube.com is FREE.... I have some big plans for my "channel" there, so go have a look and let me know what you think!!

Cool???? ........cool.........:cool:

Thanks again

Todd,
A most remarkable thing has happened. I have continued to work through the supportive fingering exercises, and even though my fingers are still crooked, I am actually getting much better at keeping the tone ringing. My fingers still don't reach the entire fret, but I am just amazed at my ability to move my fingers independantly and keep the exercise going, and am making good progress with this exercise. Thanks for your help, and please do let me know if you are ever coming to SC.
Thanks,
Bill

Todd,
A most remarkable thing has happened. I have continued to work through the supportive fingering exercises, and even though my fingers are still crooked, I am actually getting much better at keeping the tone ringing. My fingers still don't reach the entire fret, but I am just amazed at my ability to move my fingers independantly and keep the exercise going, and am making good progress with this exercise. Thanks for your help, and please do let me know if you are ever coming to SC.
Thanks,
Bill

Way to go Mr. BILL.....

Well done my friend.... I'm VERY, VERY PROUD of you and all your hard work.

There are some rumblings about me possibly heading back east in 2007... I'll be sure to keep you posted....

Keep up the good work!!

Wow. This discussion and photos about how to place our left thumb seems so obvious now, but only now :) I think I am finally ready to embrace the principles of these mechanics.

I had just begun using the Two Finger Combos, along with a poorly place thumb. I was slowly, carefully learning new bad habits. After placing my left thumb according to the photos in this thread, I find that my left hand is better positioned to help my fingers arch over the strings. Here, my lesson is that fundamentally sound mechanics quietly lead to greater success and abilities.

So, I'll start practicing really slow, remembering to relax my left hand. Here goes!

Thanks everyone!

Todd,
I started your "Technique Builders" DVD tonight, and really think it will be a great asset to my learning. I just did the first three exercises, and I can really feel the "burn" of learning to play properly.

My question is about where to place the thumb behind the neck. My original left hand position was to rest the heel of my palm against the back of the neck, leaving my thumb resting lightly, parallel to the base. Now that my palm is free below the neck, I find myself pressing really hard with my thumb straight against the back of the neck.

It was this exact same question that brought me here to TalkBass. Tonight, I re-started my work with the Two Finger Combos after redefining how I will place my left thumb behind the neck (as shown in the earlier photos). Here's two observations on my experience with this:

1. Whenever I found I was gripping the bass with two tons of force, I relaxed every muscle in my left hand and arm WHILE keeping my thumb anchored in place. Then I resumed my exercise. By keeping my thumb in place when I relax and resume, I'm teaching my left thumb that I can do this in a relaxed manner and I'm not constantly adjusting my approach to my lesson by repositioning my thumb into to a more comfortable spot.

2. I played the exercise slowly, and now, my thumb is "pleasantly" sore, and more telling, the tendons up my left arm are ever-so-slightly sore (safely, not painfully) showing that I'm transferring some of the work up into the larger muscles of my arm instead of trying to do all the work with my left hand.

I'll keep going this way for a month [and beyond, possibly], unless the soreness becomes unpleasant and "unbalanced".

Thanks for the photos and insight, everyone.

Todd mentioned breathing earlier. Here's a little test:

If you are on the gig or practicing or whatever, be mindful of your breathing, especially as you approach difficult passages or solos. In a couple of tunes, I found myself holding my breath for 8 full bars! This has a huge effect on your playing - especially towards the end of the passage as you deprive your muscles of oxygen! I have written BREATHE! on my music in certain areas to remind me - almost like a breath mark from my tuba days. During solos I try to close my eyes and just meditate on my playing - regular breathing etc. instead of the usual eyes open concentrating. It really helps with fatigue, comfort and dexterity.

Todd mentioned breathing earlier. Here's a little test:

If you are on the gig or practicing or whatever, be mindful of your breathing, especially as you approach difficult passages or solos. In a couple of tunes, I found myself holding my breath for 8 full bars! This has a huge effect on your playing - especially towards the end of the passage as you deprive your muscles of oxygen! I have written BREATHE! on my music in certain areas to remind me - almost like a breath mark from my tuba days. During solos I try to close my eyes and just meditate on my playing - regular breathing etc. instead of the usual eyes open concentrating. It really helps with fatigue, comfort and dexterity.

Yep, breathing is important!!

A lack of breathing will result in death! ...;) ....Sorry, I couldn't resist.:D

Seriously.....breathing and relaxation are key to maximum performance. A lot of practice doesn't hurt either...;) ..:D ..:cool:

I'll stop now.......

Hello Todd,

Just had a few questions which seem to tie in with this thread somewhat. When using the 4+2 fingering method, for the stretch notes, does your thumb remain anchored (the term used loosely, pivotable) on the back of the neck?

Also, do you have any ideas/excercises for specifically practicing expanding and collapsing your left hand when using the one finger per fret method (especially in lower positions). Trying to keep my hand open all the time seems to introduce stress.

I think there must be a combination of these two things going on but it is hard to tell. :eyebrow:

Thanks,
Erik

Hello Todd,

Just had a few questions which seem to tie in with this thread somewhat. When using the 4+2 fingering method, for the stretch notes, does your thumb remain anchored (the term used loosely, pivotable) on the back of the neck?

Also, do you have any ideas/excercises for specifically practicing expanding and collapsing your left hand when using the one finger per fret method (especially in lower positions). Trying to keep my hand open all the time seems to introduce stress.

I think there must be a combination of these two things going on but it is hard to tell. :eyebrow:

Thanks,
Erik

Erik,

The thumb IS pivotable.....absolutely....You're likely developing some new muscles....so DO NOT OVERDO IT!!! OK??? COOL:cool:

DO NOT feel like you have to have your left hand totally stretched out in the 4+2 position. Let the hand relax....some give and take makes sense. Now....I kept my hand somewhat "extended" during filming so you can SEE what I'm doing....but in reality, there needs to be some collapsing and expanding...or give and take. Use some common sense.

Remember, the 4+2 is a primarily a way to visualize and organize the fingerboard. Once you see it....and know where everything is...you can play whatever fingering you like as far as I'm concerned...(as long as you play correct notes ;) ). Most of the time, the 4+2 is DEFINITELY the way to go as far as fingerings go....sometimes it's not.....but you'll find what works best as you get deeper into it.

AGAIN....Don't be in a hurry. You're developing a "FILING SYSTEM" ...... Do the exercises in the order I present them... INTERNALIZE the information.....PLEASE take the time to REALLY do that and you'll have this stuff whipped.

Cool???

Cool....:cool:

I hope this helps.