In advance I apologize if I am kicking a very dead horse, but I needed to talk to like minded low ender's who might be able to help a brother out!

First off allow me to introduce myself my name is Tony....T to my friends and I play in a band called Likewise, check us out www.myspace.com/likewise (shameless plug...but gotta promote) :)


Ive been a long time reader but first time poster :)!

So basically my concern or question how ever you want to take this is this. I have been playing for a few years now and thank the 4 string lords, ive progressed pretty fast. And have found my pocket with my band, and have some mastery of my instrument, though like we all know never enough. (Sorry for the back story but I feel the detail might help some of you formulate a better answer.) And through it all ive been fortunate enough to play in a moderately successful band (see above).

But like most of us I want to keep my playing progressing. I even moved to a new apt to have a separate music room just so I can practice. But now when I get in my room and focus on playing I open one of my books and see all the scales, modes, circle of 5ths, diff techniques etc. And i just feel overwhelmed. Maybe its the ADD in me but I feel like I have such a hard time focusing on what area that will make me a better player, or better yet figuring out which area to start in.

An example of my frustration is I sit in front of my metronome and look at the modes and i start to do them, but they don't sound musical for one, then two i start working on a new tune with my band and I don't see myself applying them!!!

So maybe all of you wonderful low enders can give me some tips on productive practice tips you have. Or we could just have discussions about the whole subject.

I thank you all so very much as this is a long going issue for me that I want to tackle and start working on

It's hard to make the most of your practice time. I know I don't... because practicing effectively is, like, hard and stuff. I think that sometimes you've just got to buckle down and do it. Even though you enjoy playing the bass it's often not satisfying to practice scales and arpeggios when you could be playing music. My view is that there's a time to be musical, and there's a time to work on the mechanics of playing. Until you get the mechanics down you can't be musical, so when you're first learning or improving a technique all you can do is try to get your fingers in the right place. Oh well. You've just got to buckle down (not that I always take my own advice) if you want to improve.

As for what to practice, just look for the limits you want to push and then push them. Surely you must occasionally be jamming and get a totally cool idea... but have to let it go since you know you can't play it.

I've thought about this before as well and I think what you have to do is practice stuff you can't do rather than just play the stuff you know. If yo know the areas that need improvement, just focus on a couple of things at a time and then move on to the next.

The learning process does not have to be a musically inspiriational moment like a performance would be, but you do have to concentrate and work at it.

U could get an advanced bass teacher. Right now im taking Music Theory in school, that way I get the stuff taught to me instead of learning it myself, and this will make using it on the bass much easier for me.C-G-D-A-E-B-F#-C#-G#-D#-A#-F-C

From your post, it sounds like you can read already...but maybe, after your technical excercises you could play (read) pieces of music for a predetermined amount of time. Play them as if you were at a gig...use your metronome and don't stop!

Don't limit yourself to bass clef, play in C and G, too. Not only will your reading take off, but you'll know what all those modes are for, too!

You need to SET GOALS.
If you don't know specifically what your trying to accomplish then how will you know when your done? :D

Seriously, set goals.
For example, "I want to learn how to walk over II V I's" or "I want to blaze 16th note triplets at 220 bpm" or whatever it is that floats your boat. Define the goal and then that will help you narrow down the things you need to focus on during that practice session.

If thats not something your able to do by yourself then find a good teacher in your area for awhile. That will definetly help to put your ducks in a row.

Its a good place to start.
Good luck.

I know how you feel. There is a lot of things to learn out there and it is really scary sometimes. Some things to think about are:

-Don´t do everything in one practice session. Dedicate one session to finger dexterity, speed and finger independence and another for techniques you want to learn (slapping and tapping for example).

-Identify what you ar weak at and try and put extra attention to that.

-When practicing scales make sure you try and create something more musical out of them once you have learnt them. Perhaps by improvising over a chordpattern or simply try to create melodic lines by usig those scales.

-Little practice is better than no practice at all. It is easy to make a big deal about practicing, that you have to clear an hour each day to practice and so on. In stead of lying om your couch watching TV you could sit for about 20-30 min and run through some stuff that has given you trouble earlier.

I might ad that I myself am very bad at the last thing I mentioned. :p :rollno:

I have been playing for almost 25 years - but for most of those years at the 'same level' in that I really did not realize any true progress in my skills until recently - when I got myself a good teacher.

Now I have been finding my practice sessions to be very productive. Here is my recipe:

1. A good teacher who is focused on my needs which are currently; improving my understanding of theroy - modes - playing over chord changes, let's say "jazz" for simplicity's sake.

2. A good hour to an hour and a half every night to go over that week's lessons - starting with warm-ups (stretching, scales & arpeggios) then into the lessons with my faithful metronome ticking away.

3. I play fairly regularily with a variety of bands these days, so my lessons and practice sessions get practical work-outs pretty regularily.

I have found the key to feeling the progress in my practice is sticking to the drill. Do the warm ups for a good 15-20 minutes. Practicing on cold muscles and slow reflexes does not really do a lot for you. Start the metronome slower then you want but make damn sure you are getting that exercise you are working on PERFECT! And nobody knows better then you where you are 'shortcutting' the process - so be brutally honest with yourself about whether you nailed it or not. DO NOT up the speed until you nail it to the wall!

That is pretty much it. It is amazing to me how much improvement in my playing I see after a good week of practice like that. And it just keeps improving - as long as I keep on that routine. Having a lesson every 2 weeks really helps keep me on task. I don't want to go to that lesson and show my teacher that I haven't mastered last week's tasks. So I am driven by having someone to 'answer to' every 2 weeks.

Recipe:
1. Good Teacher
2. Regular practice sessions (nightly)
3. Strict adherance to the drill and no 'cutting myself slack' just so I can try to go faster or move to the next exercise.
4. Go out and play! Use it or lose it!

It works well for me.

Again, a big +1 to what tZer says :D A teacher is the best way to push yourself further.

Many ways to approach this problem.

The trick is to sit down with a specific goal in mind for the practice session.

Modes for example.

Just running up and down the modes is fine to learn where the notes are.

But for example take a progression like Am7-D7 and work it.

A drum machine or program is also essential.

Think of it as Dorian to Mixolydian at first.

Set up a funk groove as in Rocco's fingerstyle funk video.

Then when you solo you can expand the ideas. Think of it as all dorian and make melodies. Than think of it as mixolydian and make melodies. Then think of it as Gmajor and make melodies. Play the extended chords up to the 11th over this progrssion and the possibilities start coming.

i think any practice is productive. as long as the bass in in your hands and you're playing it, that's productive.

i know what you mean about the ADD thing though, sometimes i look at my books (trying to learn to read bass clef and learn some theory) and get scared. you need to decide if you really want to learn it, and if you do, then do it. if you don't want to learn that stuff, then put on a bunch of music and start ripping lines and licks and improving your ear.

there are other options. you don't HAVE to learn theory and all that stuff. Pino Palladino plays just by ear, he does fine.

I'm the laziest musician/bass player I know. maybe I've seen more lazy around TB and didn't know it.

I like music, but I don't "live" to play bass or desire to hold it and play it everyday. I only pick it up when I have a gig or practice coming. no, I'm not some genious who doesn't have to practice and sounds great. I don't practice as much as maybe I should and it can sound like it. I don't play fancy. I focus on playing THE RIGHT NOTE AT THE RIGHT TIME. thats the core of my skills.

if I'm practicing my timing I set my metronome to a single beat per measure, so if I get off the measure its still just a certain pitch "beep". I don't do metronome verey often, but I try to practice to CDs of songs were gonna do and take much pride in PLAYING ON TIME.

I have let myself off the hook by admitting I'll never be a great bass player, but I try to be the best player I can be for the amount of effort I'm willing to put into it!

one of the best quotes from a music producer I heard was BRIAN ENO about U2 he said "They've learned what their limitations are, and they've learned to play WITHIN those limitations and make great music" - paraphrased from 1984 Unforgettable fire video documentary.

relax and learn the songs you need to learn. ON TIME, IN KEY.

Thank you all so much for your help!!! Any more tips would be lovely!

These advices apply for me too... I'm in the same situation : I lack GOALS as said wingnuts.supreme...
But, what is the RIGHT goal ?? I mean, the kind of goal you really nead to achieve to improve your skills ?

As I had problem to define such goals I decided to order 'Slap it' and go throught the whole book, from first to last exercice - Because it will learn me a bit of groove

Now, I would like to improve also the theorical side and it's far more difficult because the possibilities are endless. From where should I start ?
I would like to play around modes, but I presume that learning each mode note by note is not enough (even if required) ? How do you play 'around/with' the modes ? How do you play 'around/with' the major scale ?
I found myself playing several mechanical exercices based on the major scale but never about applying more music knowledge

How can I do for the theorical side ? I presume your answers will be usefull to many people, the first poster included...

Thanks

These advices apply for me too... I'm in the same situation : I lack GOALS as said wingnuts.supreme...
But, what is the RIGHT goal ?? I mean, the kind of goal you really nead to achieve to improve your skills ?

As I had problem to define such goals I decided to order 'Slap it' and go throught the whole book, from first to last exercice - Because it will learn me a bit of groove

Now, I would like to improve also the theorical side and it's far more difficult because the possibilities are endless. From where should I start ?
I would like to play around modes, but I presume that learning each mode note by note is not enough (even if required) ? How do you play 'around/with' the modes ? How do you play 'around/with' the major scale ?
I found myself playing several mechanical exercices based on the major scale but never about applying more music knowledge

How can I do for the theorical side ? I presume your answers will be usefull to many people, the first poster included...

Thanks

Goals - a great way to go. Here are the goals that I am currently pursuing - maybe sharing them may help.
1. Get a good teacher (got one back in April)
2. Blow the dust off of my theory and sight reading skills (in progress)
3. Get a more practical understanding of modes and HOW TO USE THEM (progressing nicely)
4. Improve/clean up my overall technique (going well)
5. Find my improvisational voice (starting to come out, finally)
6. Be able to solo well! (Not there yet, but recently I have started to see the light at the end of the tunnel!)
7. Ultimately - be able to do session work and play jazz, real jazz (working on it... I will get there)

The teacher was a huge factor in moving forward. Once I started my lessons, I told my teacher that I wanted him to focus on getting me to a place where I can solo confidently. I also told him I was keenly interested in really understanding modes and how to use that understanding in creating solos and basslines. It was important for me to have an idea (goals) so I could tell my teacher what I wanted from him.

I set those goals for myself back in October of last year. I found my teacher in January, but couldn't start lessons until April. Once the lessons started, my goals started seeing progress almost immediately.

Goal setting is a very good idea!

Goals - a great way to go. Here are the goals that I am currently pursuing - maybe sharing them may help.
1. Get a good teacher (got one back in April)
2. Blow the dust off of my theory and sight reading skills (in progress)
3. Get a more practical understanding of modes and HOW TO USE THEM (progressing nicely)
4. Improve/clean up my overall technique (going well)
5. Find my improvisational voice (starting to come out, finally)
6. Be able to solo well! (Not there yet, but recently I have started to see the light at the end of the tunnel!)
7. Ultimately - be able to do session work and play jazz, real jazz (working on it... I will get there)

The teacher was a huge factor in moving forward. Once I started my lessons, I told my teacher that I wanted him to focus on getting me to a place where I can solo confidently. I also told him I was keenly interested in really understanding modes and how to use that understanding in creating solos and basslines. It was important for me to have an idea (goals) so I could tell my teacher what I wanted from him.

I set those goals for myself back in October of last year. I found my teacher in January, but couldn't start lessons until April. Once the lessons started, my goals started seeing progress almost immediately.

Goal setting is a very good idea!


Thanks for sharing your tips...
About modes : how do you proceed to understand modes ? What is the spark I'm missing ?

tZer's advice is pretty spot-on. Here is something else that I do: I will mark a 'goal' on the music and strive for that goal during the practice session. For example, I am working on the Prelude from Suite II of the Bach Cello Suites. I will work to accomplish one system of music each session (fingerings, bowings, tone quality, intonation). After I get the system sounding the way I want I will then play it with the previous systems I have learned (put it all together). This really helps me learn the music a little better. By focusing on little bits at a time I don't feel so overwhelmed.

Bear in mind that these Suites are very difficult. For easier pieces I will set larger goals to accomplish during each session. I hope that helps.

:bassist: