Hi,

I'm looking into starting to learn/work out basslines to some jazz classics, and I'm thinking of buying one of the New Real Book series from Sher Music. Maybe Volume III because I really like some of the Herbie Hancock tunes on it... Which one would you get?

Innocent Questions: Do they have the bass lines written out separately or do you just follow the left hand of the piano? And what key would you get the books in and why? I noticed one had "Bass Clef". What's that about?

Note: I've used fake books before when I was studying piano and jazz theory, but I'm wondering about specifics for playing bass, which I've just started recently.

Thanks all for the help.

Slave.

I would get book III since it's available in bass clef, which means the melodies are written in bass clef so that you can get a lot of use out of it. The baselines are written out only for a hand full of the tunes.

I can see the logic, but I must say that I have found Book 1 to be the most useful for playing Jazz with other people - it has the most standards that people (horn players mostly) actually want to play in a "Jamming" situation.

Having said that, I would say that if the original poster doesn't know how to construct a walking bassline from a chord chart then, it would probably be better to buy a book on this first.

As Phil says, there are very few tunes in the Jazz repertoire with written-out bass lines and more than 90% of the time it's going to be constructing your own walking lines from the chords.

One of the other threads reminded me that the "Latin Real Book" is also worth considering - this has a lot more written bass lines, if this is what you're after. A lot of Latin "standards" get played by Jazz groups as well.

My vote's for Volume I(C Clef)...
There's some tunes that have the bass charted out; MOST may only give a sketch of what the bassist was doin'(e.g. "Nutville" has the basic 2-bar figure, then it's up to YOU. "Senor Blues", I think has the entire line written out...pretty cut & dried tune).
Personally, I don't wanna follow the pianist's LEFT-hand(if, indeed, he's playin' a bass figure).

FWIW-
Volume III has a lotta POP tunes(Motown, Al Jarreau, Michael Jackson?!).
What Volume has "Actual Proof" in it?
Now that's some bad Herbie!

Thanks folks.

Bruce, Cruise, and Jim, I was wanting to work on my bassline construction, so I'm happy enough if it's just the melody and chords. I play piano ok and can hash them out on the keyboard. Then start thinking up basslines. Fun fun.

So for key choice? C is fine by me, any reason to prefer the flat keys, like for horns I guess?
I suppose they'll end up transposed anyway? Why aren't they in the original key?

Again, thanks for the replies. I'll have to start thinking about which book to get. Bruce, you're right that book 1 looks best for standards. Maybe I'll start convincing my guitarist friend to get one of the others for the few songs I want. :) Or maybe I'll get to tone up my transcription skillz.

Originally posted by surf_slave


So for key choice? C is fine by me, any reason to prefer the flat keys, like for horns I guess?
I suppose they'll end up transposed anyway? Why aren't they in the original key?



Simply because Saxophones,clarinets etc. are "transposing" instruments and the players read and play in that key and it comes out right! I have the C version of most books.

Another thing you might want to think about are the Aebersold books - they have the tune in all keys and chord charts (so you can photocopy the charts for the whole band!) and if you are interested in particular artists - say Herbie Hancock - you can get books devoted to their tunes. So like yesterday I was practising Freddie Hubbard tunes from the Aebersold no 60 I think.

Bruce,

Wow, I just checked out the Aebersold stuff: click here (http://www.jajazz.com)

Looks really good. And it won't hurt me at all to have Rufus Reid or John Patitucci working out some of the changes for me when I want to listen to the left channel. ;)

Thanks a lot for the recommendation. I'll tell you what happens when they arrive.

IMO, the "Standards" edition is the most indispensible. It has hundreds of tunes that are actually called on gigs or that are the basis of other jazz tunes that were written on the same changes (contrafacts).

What are some good fakebooks?

Ive never owned one or even looked in one but when I was picking up a book at Barnes & Nobles they had a few copies of this book called "The Ultimate Jazz Fakebook" or something like that. On the back it did have some pretty rad songs and it said you could use it for all C instruments.

Pardon my ignorance, but what exactly is the definition of a "fakebook"?

Originally posted by melvin
On the back it did have some pretty rad songs and it said you could use it for all C instruments.

That is extremely common.

I've read through a few, and they'll always have different songs. For an example. I've seen one that had PortraitofTracy in it, but it didn't have teen town, birdland, Port of Entry, etc. Then i've seen some that has had birdland and teen town, but nothing else by weather report. That is just my example. I'm looking for something that has a lot more than just fusion. So i guess i'm looking for one that has the widest selection.

Originally posted by Oysterman
Pardon my ignorance, but what exactly is the definition of a "fakebook"?

For bass players, all you need to know is that they are 100s of charts of jazz tunes crammed into a book the size of a dictionary.

Originally posted by PortraitofTracy
What are some good fakebooks?

The Best ones, IMO, are from Chuck Sher publishing
and include The New Real Book Vol. 1,2,3 and The Latin Real book. Many of the songs include seperately written Bass Lines.There are also the illegal ones from berklee called the real book.

jazz utopia only has Volume III for bass clef instruments, but it has the other 2 for C intsruments. That one seems like the best series because there are no doubles. It is pretty sad i don't have a fake book. I don't have any jazz theory books either, :(.

Originally posted by PortraitofTracy
I don't have any jazz theory books either, :(.

For jazz theory books get "The Jazz Theory Book" by Mark Levine, great stuff.

Do you have a teacher?

Originally posted by Angus
Do you have a teacher?

I can't really afford one. I'm pretty much self-taught, which is also pretty sad. At lease, i practice a lot.

I'd have to recommend "More Than Just a Fakebook". It's a fake book of Mingus tunes, with notes and so forth about Mingus and by Mingus. Mingus wrote some great tunes, and this book provides easy access to all of them. As a bass player, how can you resist a song called "Weird Nightmare" that has chromatic changes? Honestly? Horn players can get mad sometimes though, so watch out.

Originally posted by Lance Jaegan
I'd have to recommend "More Than Just a Fakebook". It's a fake book of Mingus tunes, with notes and so forth about Mingus and by Mingus. Mingus wrote some great tunes, and this book provides easy access to all of them. As a bass player, how can you resist a song called "Weird Nightmare" that has chromatic changes? Honestly? Horn players can get mad sometimes though, so watch out.

Yes, that would be cool to have, but
A. A normal Fake book would be more useful for me than a mingus only one
B. I have some friends i would like to jam with
C. I forgot C
D. A mingus fake book won't tell me the chord progressions of a Charlie Parker song.

here's one

ftp://www.pasq.net/upload/RealBookII.zip

link doesn't work.

Originally posted by PortraitofTracy
link doesn't work.

it's true I should have check the link before. The file is too big to send by mail, you have icq or msn?

If you look under "General Instruction" there have been loads of discussions about this very subject and there was a very recent thread about the Real Books - maybe this thread could be "merged" with that?

Great idea, Bruce. I am moving this to General Instruction, where the Moderator can merge it into the Real Book thread.

Chris, can you merge this with the Fake Book thread that I moved over here?

Just today, i heard of a different real book. I heard it is a legal one that is somewhat around $175, and about 6" thick.

Originally posted by Ed Fuqua
CRACKHOUSEKEY - ya know I dint even think about the Aebersold books. In addition to STANDARDS I would check out the BLUE NOTE book, JAM SESSION FAVORITES as well.

Hey is your gig at the Knit still on? I know they've had to move some sh*t around because of the WTC thang....

I haven't heard anything. I was gonna email ya 'bout that. As far as I know we'll be there on the 16th at 8:00 at the Knitactive Soundstage or something like that.

And btw, the Aebersolds was someone else's suggestion, maybe Durrl's. I was talking about the Standards Real Book. The Aebersold books are great though too. I know some cats whose sole source of charts is Aebersold.

Hi all,

Well, I've learned a lot since asking around here about the New Real Book...

One: Get it in C! I had no idea that horn players sometimes read in "transposed" keys. So they read C and play Bb or vice-versa?!?! Strange. Call me a simpleminded bassist, but when I read "A" I want to play an "A". All "C" means here is that the notes played are the same as the notes written. I also don't see much to gain from getting the bass clef version: learning to transpose down from treble clef is cool and easy, and it's easier to hack it out on piano in treble clef, b/c that's how I learned. YMMV.

Two: The New Real Book rocks. It has a good variety of tunes and it is clearly written and easy to use. Make a tape of the tune, xerox the pages out of the book, and get to playing! What's really fun is to use the written changes and try to make up basslines to a recorded tune you know pretty well. I use the Pandora to remove the bass track, but I imagine you could do it with EQ too...

Three: The New Real book has some basslines written out, but not too many. I've tried playing a few that I've never heard, and there are some cool grooves. They tend to write out a lot of the funkier stuff, where the bassline is more front-and-center in the music.

Now the Aebersold stuff. I ordered one of their books (Herbie Hancock), and it also looks pretty good. It's also nice (for me) to be able to focus on a single composer/genre. I guess I see the two series as natural complements: get the NRB for a general reference (ie if you're gigging or just want to expand your repertoire) and the Aebersold series of your choosing to focus on a certain writer/performer.

In sum, thanks all for pointing me toward C clef, and NRB Volume I. I may pick up another someday when I get done working my way through this one. I'm not gigging or anything, so I'm just working through it for myself. If I learn 2 tunes per week, I'll buy Volume II in a year or two. I'll update you all then. :)

How can you afford books and basses but not a teacher?

PoT PoT PoT...you need a teacher. No two ways around it.

Originally posted by Angus
How can you afford books and basses but not a teacher?

PoT PoT PoT...you need a teacher. No two ways around it.

A teacher is $40 a week. A book is $40 and it last forever. Would i learn more from a book or from one lesson? And the jesen fondation has no money.

Originally posted by PortraitofTracy


A teacher is $40 a week. A book is $40 and it last forever. Would i learn more from a book or from one lesson?

Your point is almost valid, except for this: A Book is a tool. A good teacher can show you how to use that tool to your full potential. And yes, with a good teacher, you can often learn more in a single lesson than you could from six months of reading through charts.

Hey Angus, have you heard of Ben Musa? I used to take lessons with him. I think my brother said it best, "I paid $100 for him to teach me how to tune, and i could have figured that out on my own!!!"

The best fake books are the illegal ones. Go to your local universities jazz department and start asking around, someone will know how to get them. I think I paid around $40 per volume almost 10 years ago.

Originally posted by beermonkey
The best fake books are the illegal ones. Go to your local universities jazz department and start asking around, someone will know how to get them. I think I paid around $40 per volume almost 10 years ago.

Why are they better? I though the general wisdom was that they were full of errors?

Originally posted by beermonkey
The best fake books are the illegal ones. Go to your local universities jazz department and start asking around, someone will know how to get them. I think I paid around $40 per volume almost 10 years ago.

I remember scoring some of those too, but I don't actually think they're better any more. From what I've seen, I think the Sher books are generally superior to the old "illegal" Real Books. As an illustration, just check out how the Monk tunes are handled. The way "Round Midnight," for example, is rendered in the Sher book is a lot closer to the way I hear most pros do it than the Real Book version is. And I like the way you get alternate changes in the Sher books. I'm sure they have plenty to quibble about in them ("This isn't the way I play it, dammit!"), but all in all I'd rather work with the Sher books.