I have been looking into these pre-amps and they look very interesting, I have had some great help from David at Audere and wondered if anyone had tried one in a Roscoe yet?

I would appreciate any comments or feedback - thanks.

:ninja:

I have no knowledge of this "Audere" of which you speak...

:hiding:

...OK, OK, I'll 'fess up.

:smug:

David from Audere has sent us one to try out - my bass was the obvious guiena pig for this.

I like it, I really do. If we can work a couple "kinks" out, it may (MAY) become an option in the forseeable future.

My take on it:

The treble and bass are subtle.

Real subtle.

...almost not-there-subtle.

(This isn't a "bad thing", just a thing...one of the "kinks" that David and I have already discussed, and come up with a resolution for. The actual EQ points for both controls are PERFECT, however.)

The two mids...all I am gonna say is this:

:D

(Of course, I'm a midrange fanatic! ;) )

The Z Mode switch actually does something cool in each of the positions away from "standard" that is useful. Not overwhelmingly different, but noticeably so.

All in all, in a Roscoe, it's a positive thing, if you're curious, definitely give it a spin.

I've installed 2 in non Roscoe basses and some of my feeling mirror Gard.

My take on it:

The treble and bass are subtle.

Real subtle.

...almost not-there-subtle.This isn't a good or bad thing. I know people that don't like Aguilar preamps (which I love) because they feel that the boost is very in your face. As soon as you touch the knob, is boost "too much.

The two mids...all I am gonna say is this:

:D

(Of course, I'm a midrange fanatic! ;) )I, opposed to Gard, don't like mids. One of the 2 basses was a 2 band preamp and the other, that is a personal bass has the 3 band JZ3 drop in pre. I literally just finished up the personal bass and I played it for 5 minutes. So far I like it. I didn't play with the Z mode switch. I'll save that for Band practice when I can really test the preamp out.

One thing I LOVE about the preamp so far is how DEAD QUIET it is. No noise, no hiss... nothing. I had the 3 bands of the preamp at 100% and there was no unwanted noise.

Thanks guys (Gard you are such a tease!) - I was looking at the 4 band system with the stacked mids and stacked bass/treble as I did not want too many switches on the bass.

I am not sure what to do with the LED - I thought it might fit on the battery cover?

Now which bass to put it on - Ceder/Mrytle/Purpeheart or Mahogony/maple/rosewood...hmmmm. :cool:

Gard - do you think there will be a difference in response to the eq between the stock Barts and your Nordstrand p/ups? I guess the Nords are already brighter than the Barts, plus you had a Demeter in there originally - so are your obsevations based on these factors?

Just throwing it around at the moment, but I think I will try it out as it does sound like a great bit of kit.

Well just ordered it off the site - it was easy to do, should arrive in a few days. When installed I will try to give a review and some sound files if I can (before and after). :hyper:

Nino -

Yeah, it IS dead quiet. All 4 bands, cranked up 100%, sitting right in front of a CRT screen, no hiss.

:eek:

Very impressive.

On mids, well, the thing that makes it all wonderful is everyone is different! I've found that nothing will make you noticed in a mix like a good honkin' midrange, just below the guitarist. You don't even need to be "loud" to be heard! However, it's not for everyone or every situation.

:)

Poptart -

On the LED, if you're replacing the Bart pre with one of these, I'd suggest the spot that the trim control for the Bart is now is a very sensible location for the LED.

Tonally, it was very reminescent of the Demeter overall, just with the added flexibility of the dual mid controls. It's also quieter, which I thought was next to impossible. :eek:

So what would your recommendation be to someone who has grown to love the low mids available from the Bart? I like that punch that goes through the mix, but wouldnt mind just a tad bit more clarity for playing solo. What say ye?

So what would your recommendation be to someone who has grown to love the low mids available from the Bart? I like that punch that goes through the mix, but wouldnt mind just a tad bit more clarity for playing solo. What say ye?

+1

Gard?.... Gard?..... Gaaaaaaard? :D

I remember trying the 4 bands unit in the test bass at Carey's place... I liked it. As Gard has mentioned, the BT were subtle (with the T acting more like a passive tone, which I like), but the two mids were perfect!

This is not good..... now I have something else more to "wonder"....

Mo'

So what would your recommendation be to someone who has grown to love the low mids available from the Bart? I like that punch that goes through the mix, but wouldnt mind just a tad bit more clarity for playing solo. What say ye?

See that 10 foot pole over there (points randomly in several directions at one time)...

:hiding:

...I'm not even gonna pick up that pole, much less touch this one with that pole.

;)

The Bart pre SOUNDS like a Bart pre, and if you dig that tone, you want that preamp.

The Audere is a much different sounding creature to me, there, but almost _not_ there....a preamp that almost doesn't sound like a preamp???

Good point Gard!

See, I told you, you are a Master! :p

Mo'

Well just ordered it off the site - it was easy to do, should arrive in a few days. When installed I will try to give a review and some sound files if I can (before and after). :hyper:

Hello, please! sound files would be much appreciate!

You have Barts on your basses, right? Really interested to hear the difference!

So long

Mo'

Oh daddy-

I can't wait for my century with the audere. For a fretless, dual mid controls seems quite preferable to a 3 band. As for bass/treble not doing much, lets hope the flat tone is just about perfect!

See that 10 foot pole over there (points randomly in several directions at one time)...

:hiding:

...I'm not even gonna pick up that pole, much less touch this one with that pole.

;)

The Bart pre SOUNDS like a Bart pre, and if you dig that tone, you want that preamp.

The Audere is a much different sounding creature to me, there, but almost _not_ there....a preamp that almost doesn't sound like a preamp???

Ah, that makes sense. Maybe Ill try some stainless steel strings next string change around.

That seems kinda like the same description I would have had on the Audere pre in the Jazz I had. It was really subtle, too subtle I think. Probly why I didnt dig that bass too much. Was wondering if the story would be the same in a Roscoe, and it seems it is. :crying:

Ah well, Ill have to find some other way of killing the GAS.

You have Barts on your basses, right? Really interested to hear the difference!



+1

Well just ordered it off the site - it was easy to do, should arrive in a few days. When installed I will try to give a review and some sound files if I can (before and after). :hyper:

What kind of preamp will you be replacing with the Audere?

Dave

I have the standard 3 band bart pre - which I really like for it's slightly compressed low mid sound, especially for my style of finger playing. However I have two SKBs both with Bart/Bart so I have been looking for an alternative pre for one of the basses.

I have been keenly following the Demeter eq for a while but the Audere really impressed me when I went on there site, they really seem to have a new approach and the reviews have been really good from emjazz, jaquii etc - plus I think it is really good value as the four band system I have ordered is around $200.

I have decided to install it in my cedar body, tiger myrtle bass with spalted purpleheart f/b as this bass has a more crisp acoustic one than my other bass and the other has the perfect funk/finger sound than I need most of the time.

It should be interesting to see if the Audere gives me the spectrum of sounds I am hoping for eg the Bart sound and the more aggressive Agie sound and the transparent Demeter sound - now that would be cool:cool:

Very cool, keep us posted, this sounds like a really cool project.

One thing I LOVE about the preamp so far is how DEAD QUIET it is. No noise, no hiss... nothing. I had the 3 bands of the preamp at 100% and there was no unwanted noise.

+1

G

Dave

I have the standard 3 band bart pre - which I really like for it's slightly compressed low mid sound, especially for my style of finger playing. However I have two SKBs both with Bart/Bart so I have been looking for an alternative pre for one of the basses.

I have been keenly following the Demeter eq for a while but the Audere really impressed me when I went on there site, they really seem to have a new approach and the reviews have been really good from emjazz, jaquii etc - plus I think it is really good value as the four band system I have ordered is around $200.

I have decided to install it in my cedar body, tiger myrtle bass with spalted purpleheart f/b as this bass has a more crisp acoustic one than my other bass and the other has the perfect funk/finger sound than I need most of the time.

It should be interesting to see if the Audere gives me the spectrum of sounds I am hoping for eg the Bart sound and the more aggressive Agie sound and the transparent Demeter sound - now that would be cool:cool:

Subscribing....:D

Gotta find out if this story has a happy ending.

There is a small issue with knobs for the stacked pots - it seems the Roscoe Bart fittings don't work/fit. I have managed to find some really nice ones eventually in the UK from John East thanks to Dave at Audere who pointed me in the right direction - they look really nice so I ordered a whole set as they are not domed in the same way as the original ones.
:bassist:

There is a small issue with knobs for the stacked pots - it seems the Roscoe Bart fittings don't work/fit. I have managed to find some really nice ones eventually in the UK from John East thanks to Dave at Audere who pointed me in the right direction - they look really nice so I ordered a whole set as they are not domed in the same way as the original ones.
:bassist:

The standard EMG/Bart stacked knobs fit the Audere preamp pots. That's what I used for my three stacked knobs.

I've been meaning to post in this thread, but I haven't had a chance to take pictures yet of my master/vol/vol/hi-mid/lo-mid/hi/low/passive treble setup. :-D

Here's a soundclip of the three positions of the Z switch with everything set flat with the neck pickup soloed, though:

http://home.earthlink.net/~bionicmanmp3s/neck_M_H_L_flat.mp3

I'd like to add that David at Audere is a great guy. He PM'd me suggestions for setting the Hi Z settings for my Bart pickups, and he even sent me a shirt. I REALLY need to get these soundclips finished that I'm working on....

Bassmonkey

I was only going on what Gard at Roscoe told me - anyway the new knobs look really cool and they didn't cost that much.:D

Bassmonkey

I was only going on what Gard at Roscoe told me - anyway the new knobs look really cool and they didn't cost that much.:D

Yeah, well, Gard has been known to try to fit a square peg in a round hole, too, ifyouknowwhatImean..... :help:







:hiding:

:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: ....I can't believe you just said that....:eek: :eek: :eek:

Hey I live 4000 miles away most of which is ocean, and I would never dis the Gardmiester:D

:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: ....I can't believe you just said that....:eek: :eek: :eek:

Hey I live 4000 miles away most of which is ocean, and I would never dis the Gardmiester:D

Heh. I've eaten raw fish with the man. I ain't scared of him. :ninja:

Hmmm...in a restaurant or staight off the hook? I always had Gard down as red meat sort of a guy:eyebrow:

Actually, the monkeee has eaten sashimi with me once or twice...I remember very vividly an experience where the reach of his eyes far exceeded the grasp of his stomach...

:D

...I'll do red meat once in a while, but typically I'm a chicken & fish kinda dude...

;)

...and if anyone is frightened of anyone, he scared the heebeebuhbuhjeebies out of me when he plays - that monkeee is one monster of a player.

:eek:

All that said: we found that the plastic lower knobs that we use on the standard pots found on our Bartolini/Demeter/Aguilar preamps don't sit all the way flush with the top of the bass - there's a fairly sizeable gap under the ring. It WORKS fine, just isn't cosmetically very appealing to us. However, I think we've found a solution, there is a knob style we found at one of our suppliers that is similar to the East knobs that poptart is getting that works quite well with them.

Finally, no one should even feign fright around me, I'm totally harmless.

:ninja:

no one should even feign fright around me, I'm totally harmless.

:ninja:

Thats a good one!!! haha.........:D

Actually, the monkeee has eaten sashimi with me once or twice...I remember very vividly an experience where the reach of his eyes far exceeded the grasp of his stomach...

:D

...I'll do red meat once in a while, but typically I'm a chicken & fish kinda dude...

;)

It's funny. For as teeny as my eyes were, they sure thought I could eat a lot of food. :ninja:


...and if anyone is frightened of anyone, he scared the heebeebuhbuhjeebies out of me when he plays - that monkeee is one monster of a player.

:eek:


Yeah, right--I don't think there's anything I can do that you can't, Sport. So, cut it out.



All that said: we found that the plastic lower knobs that we use on the standard pots found on our Bartolini/Demeter/Aguilar preamps don't sit all the way flush with the top of the bass - there's a fairly sizeable gap under the ring. It WORKS fine, just isn't cosmetically very appealing to us. However, I think we've found a solution, there is a knob style we found at one of our suppliers that is similar to the East knobs that poptart is getting that works quite well with them.

Ah HA! that makes more sense. All of my knobs (heh...knobs) are recessed into the carved top on the Curbow, so I don't really see the bottom part of how it sits on the shaft (heh...shaft).




Finally, no one should even feign fright around me, I'm totally harmless.

:ninja:

LIES! ALL LIES!

It's funny. For as teeny as my eyes were, they sure thought I could eat a lot of food. :ninja:

I think that there is an inverse proportion between the angle of the ocular opening and the mental image of stomach capacity, brought on by certain...activities...like...like...er...driving, yeah, that's it, driving...

:hiding:

Yeah, right--I don't think there's anything I can do that you can't, Sport. So, cut it out.

I have to say that I totally disagree, but am honored that you feel as such.

Ah HA! that makes more sense. All of my knobs (heh...knobs) are recessed into the carved top on the Curbow, so I don't really see the bottom part of how it sits on the shaft (heh...shaft).

You're always going on and on about the knobs & shafts....

:eek:

LIES! ALL LIES!

Who, me, lie???

:smug:

I seem to VAGUELY remember from my younger days that a great big bowl of weedies would always make me disproportionatly hungry.

And Gard, the offer for the sushi day still stands when I come out there soon. Monkey is welcome to join us, that is, if he promises to arrive with eyes wide open. :D

By the way Gard, what DO you think about the audere in a Roscoe after the bugs are worked out?

Well the Audere arrived today (in a very large box!) and looks very neat. I have dropped it off at my local guitar tech and should have it back tomorrow:hyper:

I recorded some simple/short mp3s with the bass before dropping the Audere in and will do the same tomorrow when I get it back. I ran the bass flat with pups centered. I will edit the files so each example will run before/after plus some others examples with the z-mode.

It's in - first impressions are that it offers a very neutral and clean sound with a very usable selection of sounds. The z-mode switch, which has fully adjustable parameters for hi and low mode, is really sweet, and like I say because it is user adjustable you can easily adjust the unit to give you the sound of your choice.

Hi Z Mode is definitely cleaner and brighter with the abilty to add a bit of air to your sound and preadjust where abouts that occurs from the. The Low Z mode brings out more of the bottom end of the sound but is not a bass boost and it is not boomy - again this is adjustable so you can create just the sound you prefer.

The Mid position is nice a clean and punchy - It sounds like the bass does acoustically - eg a very neutral uncoloured sound.

The treble control, as mentioned elsewhere, is nice and subtle, the treble giving a nice bit of snap without being too edgy and the bass giving a fullness to the sound which to my ears gives plenty of bass without becoming boomy or overpowering.

The Mids give a good control over those so important areas of your sound with good choices of frequencies again.

I have spent half an hour tweeking the unit, so its off to rehearsal now with the band for a more realistic run. I will record some samples with the unit once I am happy with the set up in the next day or so.

Thanks to Dave at Audere for his help and input on this;) So far so good:hyper:

Sweet, Im looking forward to some sound clip comparisons.

Well here are a couple of sound samples (not great i'm afraid). I must stress that I have not spent enough time with Audere and it's adjustments to really get what I really want yet, so these are just some indicators. See what you think.

I am using Dr Hi Beams 125s on the bass and plugged it into an edirol USB box and recorded it with Sound Studio (sampler) on my Mac. There is no compression or EQ.

The Octave sample is just Open B then B on the E string etc then up to the D string, then down other way round - the first sample being the Bart.

The second is simple slap thing first on the bart, then on the Audere on Flat, then on High Z then on Low Z.

I used it in rehearsal last night after recording these samples and there are some adjustments I need to make to get what I am looking for, it's just a case of tweaking the adjustment screws on the Audere, which is fairly easy and yields a great variety of tones.

So far I am happy with the sound of my bass with this pre amp - it sounded great with the bart before - I am getting a bit more punch and clarity but it does not have the low mid punch of the Bart, but this can be dialed in.

I am recording some live music with the band this weekend to compare with recordings made before to see how it has affected the way it sits in the mix.

PS There is a bit of hiss on the Audere tracks as I had to boost my recording level when editing to match the already recorded Bart which I recorded louder - it's very quiet in use!

See that 10 foot pole over there (points randomly in several directions at one time)...

:hiding:

...I'm not even gonna pick up that pole, much less touch this one with that pole.

;)

The Bart pre SOUNDS like a Bart pre, and if you dig that tone, you want that preamp.

The Audere is a much different sounding creature to me, there, but almost _not_ there....a preamp that almost doesn't sound like a preamp???

Spoken like a true Politician! :p
Have you ever thought about running for congress!

"It's a tough job judging preamps....but we're making progress...":D

Just judging from the sound clip i prefer the Bart pre by quite a bit.

To be honest I am not convinced that the sound bites really do this much justice:hmm: . I thought it would be interesting to see how they turned out, and although it gives an indication I am still playing with the set up.

To be fair the bass sounded great with the Bart, the reason for changing was to open up some of the tonal possibilities of the bass as I have a very similar second bass and to move away from that signature Bart sound.

In practise, it definately has a more neutral sound (to my ears anyway) than the Bart and when you put the EQ to use is really opens up the possibilities. I have been playing with the setting on high Z to affect the amount of bite and with the low Z to find the right bassier sound.

It's ealy days yet, but I am looking forward to trying it out on a gig to see how it fairs - one of the reasons I like this system is that for me I have three sounds that I use on stage which are basically the same idea as the z mode.

My take on it:

The treble and bass are subtle.

Real subtle.

...almost not-there-subtle.

Did you try adjusting the trim pots on the preamp module? I installed one recently that came with way too much bass dialed in. I adjusted it an everything is fine.

Did you try adjusting the trim pots on the preamp module? I installed one recently that came with way too much bass dialed in. I adjusted it an everything is fine.

Mine had a similar imbalance when I got it and adjusted the volumes for low Z mode with the pots. However I think Gard is refering to the amount of gain for the bass and treble eq, I think it is 10db and I think some pre have 15db.

Did you try adjusting the trim pots on the preamp module? I installed one recently that came with way too much bass dialed in. I adjusted it an everything is fine.

Poptart is right, I was indeed not referring to the Z-mode switching, but the actual bass and treble controls. I actually dig them, they're voiced very well, I just want a bit "more" from them.

Well at last a chance for me to try the Audere in a live setting - which is what I do! I do not use a bass amp but run straight in to the desk and in to a four way monitor mix on stage which includes an active 800w bass bin:). We run about 3kw out front sound.

This is where the Audere really shows its metal to me - after speaking to David from Audere, who has been really supportive, I spent a bit more time setting up the z modes and the results were impressive.

The low mid boost, that is a feature of the classic Bart tone, is easily dialed in with some low and low mid boosted, but what was obvious in a live situation was that the sound no longer became boomy/overpowering on the B string and instead was more defined and clear but with serious stage shaking low end:cool: Also worth noting is that in low Z the bass end was very useable, but I set it up with no extra gain, it just sounded louder through the PA/Monitors.

I do not use slap in my peformance, it is all finger playing, so the high z mode was not used a great deal as the mid z setting is just so versatlie, however when I tried it it gave a controlled extra cut which worked well.

It took a while to adjust to listening to myself on stage as I had become very familiar to the Bart tone - all I can say is that I still think that the all Bart set up is hard to beat and I am very fond of it, however if you want a more versatile sound then it is definately worth trying the Audere - the proof for me is in a live situation.

This is very informative stuff. I got to try out Gards bass this weekend with the Audere and was very impressed. It seems like it has a pretty steep learning curve compared to other preamps, but from the few minutes I spent tweaking knobs I liked it a lot. The two mid bands are pure magic, and the z mode is excellent.

I agree the Bart setup is tough to beat, and for a fretless has that certain something, but I think the audere can just about match it with the right eq'ing, and it seems like it can do a whole lot more as well.