I thought I'd learn to play some jazz tunes, so I went ahead and ordered a copy of "The Real Book in bass clef"(Hal Leonard, 6th edition), it should arrive within a week. Since I've never seen the contents of a Real Book, I was wondering if I'm better off with a copy of it for C instruments? Or considering that I play bass, I should be using the one I ordered, which is in bass clef.

if you have never used it - then any version is a great place to start - ultimately you will want to learn to read in "G" [treble] clef so you can read anything put in front of you.

I agree, learn the treble clef. It's real important...

the bass clef one doesnt have all the same songs as the regular one for c instuments. also some songs are in different keys than the one for all c instruments. i have had many tune go terribly wrong on the gig because somebody brought a bass clef realbook.

I agree with all the aboves. Learn to read the treble clef. Plus,other people can read in your book as well, very handy!

SB

The bass clef Real Books are wonderful for getting started. I read (and memorize) as many "heads" or melodies from the book as I can. Then go ahead and get a treble clef book and start doing the same thing -- especially on tunes you've worked on in bass clef.

It's highly unlikely you'll ever get a bass clef chart from anybody -- unless you back up a trombone player!

I also do a thing where I read bass clef in the lower positions of the bass -- and read treble above the 12th fret. Somehow it makes better sense in my brain to do it this way.

Good news is, if you work on it enough...you can memorize the tunes and leave the books at home.

I always carry a few books to the gig -- because someone always seems to call something I haven't totally worked out.

Ain't jazz grand?

I agree with all the aboves. Learn to read the treble clef. Plus,other people can read in your book as well, very handy!

SB

+1

Reading in both clefs makes life easier and easier to start doing it at home in practice than have some G-clef chart dropped on you at a gig. Also when you study theory and other things they are in G-clef.


Just be happy you don't have to work with the movable clef, I think it is a C-clef. I believe violin and other things get written in it to help reduce ledger lines. :help:

don't have to work with the movable clef, I think it is a C-clef. I believe violin and other things get written in it to help reduce ledger lines.
Nah, nobody uses it anymore unless they're either studying old music or learning to transpose as they sight read in a fancy school. It's a shame, really. I'd rather see a clef change than a ledger line.

By the way, the bass is a C instrument. That letter refers to how an instrument is transposed when it's written. A Bb trumpet is written a whole stop higher than it sounds, and an F horn is written a fifth higher. While the bass is transposed when written, it's by an octave, so it's still a C instrument.

Violas still read in alto clef, which I think is also called C Clef.

Violas still read in alto clef, which I think is also called C Clef.
I didn't know that. Are there others?

I do know that the clef's name depends on its location on the staff. Top line is baritone clef, I think, and middle line is alto. It's always a C clef too, of course, since it marks where middle C is.

As a trombonist, I'm required to read tenor and alto clef(in addition to bas clef) - both are kind of a movable clef where an intersection in the symbol points to C. In tenor clef C is on the second line from the top; in alto clef it is the center line below that.

Violists read alto clef frequently, and I believe cellists read tenor and alto clef frequently also.

I have to read tenor clef all the time, but alto clef doesn't turn up as much - except for some older music that is often played on alto trombone.

Sorry for hijacking the thread - I agree with others that it's a great idea to learn how to read the treble clef book. It's an extremely useful skill for any instrumentalist. My high school teacher who played saxophone learned standards from that C book, meaning he had to learn to transpose, which he said proved invaluable in his later work.

Initially I asked a friend who played saxophone about the real book, he said because of his instrument, he used one in Eb, so I naturally thought that I should get one in C. But then I saw a bass clef version of it over the internet, and thought to myself, perhaps this is the one I ought to get instead, because basslines are written in the bass clef. But now, I'm getting a bit confused, if I'm better off reading from a real book for c instruments, who(which musician) exactly should be using the one in bass clef? Could someone describe what a transcription looks like in a real book, or show me an example? Are all the instruments in a given song transcribed, are just one or two? Is the transcription complete? or incomplete? Perhaps it's just a chart of a chord progression, indicating only the key signature, tempo, or perhaps including a small sample of the central melody? Help!

I think it depends on what you want to do...?

So - if you want to play and learn some Jazz heads to tunes - then a Bass Clef Real Book is very useful.

If you only want to play Jazz with other people - singers or musicians - then a C Real Book is the common currency - and as a bass player, then basically you are just reading the chord chart anyway!

I've got both! :)

Initially I asked a friend who played saxophone about the real book, he said because of his instrument, he used one in Eb, so I naturally thought that I should get one in C. But then I saw a bass clef version of it over the internet, and thought to myself, perhaps this is the one I ought to get instead, because basslines are written in the bass clef.

If you're more used to reading from the bass clef, then you'll find the bass clef version easier. But bear in mind that only the head and changes of the tune is transcribed in any version.


But now, I'm getting a bit confused, if I'm better off reading from a real book for c instruments, who(which musician) exactly should be using the one in bass clef? Could someone describe what a transcription looks like in a real book, or show me an example? Are all the instruments in a given song transcribed, are just one or two? Is the transcription complete? or incomplete? Perhaps it's just a chart of a chord progression, indicating only the key signature, tempo, or perhaps including a small sample of the central melody? Help!

That's exactly what it is.

And just to avoid any confusion... The real book comes in four basic versions:

C (treble clef)
Bb (treble clef)
Eb (treble clef)
C (bass clef)

The letter denotes transposition rather than clef.

But then I saw a bass clef version of it over the internet, and thought to myself, perhaps this is the one I ought to get instead, because basslines are written in the bass clef.


Just to clarify further - you don't usually get bass lines in a real book - you are supposed to make up your own bass lines based on the chords.

Although you might get the occasional written bass intro, ostinato or something like that....


But now, I'm getting a bit confused, if I'm better off reading from a real book for c instruments, who(which musician) exactly should be using the one in bass clef?


Generally these are aimed at trombone players who want to play the melody - but you can use them as a bass player to learn the tune/head - if you are doing duo gigs then it's nice for variety to play the melody on some tunes and it can be nice to play heads in unison - again for variety.


Could someone describe what a transcription looks like in a real book, or show me an example? Are all the instruments in a given song transcribed, are just one or two? Is the transcription complete? or incomplete?


Real books are not transcriptions - they are just the bare bones to enable Jazz musicians to play a tune together that they don't know or are unfamiliar with.


Perhaps it's just a chart of a chord progression, indicating only the key signature, tempo, or perhaps including a small sample of the central melody? Help!

Yup as dlloyd says - that's it!

Ah, I get it. So the only difference between the bass clef version and the treble clef version, is that the head is notated differently. Is that right? And the main reason that I would want to get a treble clef version, is so that I can share it with other musicians at a gig?

....... - singers or musicians - ......


ouch! You should work with better singers...

Initially I asked a friend who played saxophone about the real book, he said because of his instrument, he used one in Eb, so I naturally thought that I should get one in C. But then I saw a bass clef version of it over the internet, and thought to myself, perhaps this is the one I ought to get instead, because basslines are written in the bass clef.
Just to reiterate: the clef and transposition are completely independent.

ouch! You should work with better singers...


Sorry - I suppose I should have said singers and instrumentalists!! :p

That's what I meant - honestly! ;)

Nah, nobody uses it anymore unless they're either studying old music or learning to transpose as they sight read in a fancy school. It's a shame, really. I'd rather see a clef change than a ledger line.

By the way, the bass is a C instrument. That letter refers to how an instrument is transposed when it's written. A Bb trumpet is written a whole stop higher than it sounds, and an F horn is written a fifth higher. While the bass is transposed when written, it's by an octave, so it's still a C instrument.
Any instrument that reads in Bass Clef is a "C" (concert pitch) instrument. Yah, even all the different keyed tubas, they 'transpose' by learning different fingerings.

If you want to learn to read jazz heads in Bass Clef, get the Treble Clef Real Book and write out the heads in Bass Clef, you'll learn a lot from that.

Any instrument that reads in Bass Clef is a "C" (concert pitch) instrument.
Not all of them. Horns see some bass clef, but it's transposed the same as the rest of the piece. The bass guitar, however, is a C instrument.

IMO, the bass guitar is not a concert pitch instrument as it sounds an octave lower than written.

It's a "C" instrument though.

IMO, the bass guitar is not a concert pitch instrument as it sounds an octave lower than written.

It's a "C" instrument though.
I'm not sure whether "concert pitch" refers to a particular octave or not, but I'd like to know. I hear stuff like "play a concert Bb" all the time, and everyone just plays in whatever octave makes them happiest, but maybe we're all just sloppy.

Well,.. no real octave information is passed in saying "play a concert Bb".

Now, if the request was "play the Bb just below middle C".. first of all, it's possible that not all instruments could comply with the request and secondly, this would be played at the 15th fret of your G string.

If you saw, on a staff, a Bb below middle C in music transcribed for the bass, this would be, for instance, at the 3rd fret of the G-string (as well as several other places on other strings).

Anyhow, these IMO are two different notes.

Ah, I get it. So the only difference between the bass clef version and the treble clef version, is that the head is notated differently. Is that right? And the main reason that I would want to get a treble clef version, is so that I can share it with other musicians at a gig?

The head is notated in bass clef but keep in mind that the bass usually sounds an octave lower than written. The low E in the real book would correspond to your E at the 12th fret on the E string, not the open E.

The bass clef book is great for your bass clef reading and once you can read every tune in the book, then get the treble clef version.

Hi! I just posted this before, but I think it may give a bit of knowledge for those who didn´t know:

There´s a total of 7 clefs (to adapt to the different instruments) which classical musicians do master at some point....! Most of us do only know F(bass) clef and G clef(treble)! But there are 5 more: C clef in 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th line, and F clef in 3rd line! There was a composer named Heinrich Schütz that used F clef in 5th line, which would be like G clef but two octaves lower!! (it´s never used). Learning them too is really useful...for example: transposing!

Cheers!

I've got both! :)
+1

most of the time u probably wont be reading the notation anyway...unless u need the melody...95 percent of the time u can just look at chord names

I have both. I use the treble clef version almost exclusively.

I have the treble clef version and use it somewhat often. Here's the thing about the real book; they make them in any key or clef for any instrument that would ever play in a jazz band, but most of the time unless you have rehearsed previously with a group, a lot of the playing that one might do out of the real book would probably just be jamming, in which case a c real book is desirable. Everyone who wants to make it as a jazz musician and wants to have fun jamming with others should be able to read out of a C real book, so the bassist needs to learn treble clef, and the winds need to be able to transpose. That's what I was told early on and I'm quite thankful.
-Alex

Everyone who wants to make it as a jazz musician and wants to have fun jamming with others should be able to read out of a C real book, so the bassist needs to learn treble clef, and the winds need to be able to transpose. That's what I was told early on and I'm quite thankful.

I thought someone mentioned earlier on that the bass clef version was in C, or rather for C instruments. If the bass clef version, and treble clef version can both be used for C instruments, I don't see why, as a bass player, I would prefer the treble clef version. I'm pretty sure I'll get this all cleared up, see the advantages/disadvantages, once my book arrives, which by the way is taking ages.

Ah, I get it. So the only difference between the bass clef version and the treble clef version, is that the head is notated differently. Is that right? And the main reason that I would want to get a treble clef version, is so that I can share it with other musicians at a gig?

Yes!

SB