My new band opened last Saturday night for a fairly new local band.. We rocked the place, and most of the bar left shortly after we played, and were told multible times that we were better then the other band by people in the club. then we are told the bar owner liked us and wants to talk to us about future shows there. We know the other band was paid $800. So last night 3 band members including myself go down there to talk to him per the bar owners request, and he proceeds to offer us a gig on Dec 22, Friday night.. and only offers us $500. We have five members in our band, and it's going to cost us $250 for a sound guy. I try and get the $800 out of him but he said we would need to bring in at least 150 people for him to pay us that. We are a new band and it would be hard to meet that commitment. plus there was only 80 or so people in the bar for the band we opened for.. and we brought 30 of them. Would you guys take this deal? Whats the going rate for a new band? He also offered us New Years Eve for $500, And I know bands usually get double pay. what do ya think?

YOU need to hire a sound guy? This club sounds like a pain-in-da-butt to deal with that's probably not worth the effort. I'd walk.

Take the $500 gig on the understanding that this is first headline gig, and you expect to be paid more once for the next one. We usually discount our first gig at a venue to get a foot in the door, but make it clear that this is a one off price.

There is no "usual" price - just what you can get. You said yourself it's going to be hard for a new band to fill the place, and you're only going to get exposure by taking gigs. $500 isn't awefull. $250 is a lot to spent on a sound guy though for a small gig. Take the $500 and buy yourself some PA gear!

New Year I'd want more for - he obviously things you're good if he's offering you a prime slot... (we're getting double for new year, plus drinks).

Ian

It would help us help you if you filled out your profile. By knowing your age and location we might have a better understanding of your situation.

That said, Ian is right about there being no "usual" price.

It's the music biz. Everyone is looking out for number one. You have to get what you can get. The bar/club will always try to pay you as little as possible. The bottom line is, if you can't draw people you can control what you get paid.

Put youself in the club owners position. If he knows you're going to xxx amount of people, he knows he's going to make $xxxx.xx at the bar. If he knows you're going to make him a tone of money, he'll be willing to pay you more. It is very simple really.

yes, the owner loves you and because you're not established, he wants you to play on the cheap. Not hardly unexpected. Unless you have better offers, you take it. You have to start somewhere and there is no substitute for playing live.

We have a decent PA, But my concern is with no one to run the board we would take the chance of not sounding as good as we could with Pro sound, and a pro running the system. I don't want to take the chance on possibly promoting the band in a negative way because of bad sound/mix.

So you think $500 is a fair offer for a new band?

Thanks for the reply's!

imo id just do the sound yourselves... have someone with a long cable or wireless so they can go out into the dance floor to check levels, a sound man isnt worth half your money

We have a decent PA, But my concern is with no one to run the board we would take the chance of not sounding as good as we could with Pro sound, and a pro running the system. I don't want to take the chance on possibly promoting the band in a negative way because of bad sound/mix.

So you think $500 is a fair offer for a new band?

Thanks for the reply's!

You have the PA and you're going to pay some guy $250 just to run your equipment? Find somebody else.

How about telling the bar owner that you will do it for $500 plus the door and then charge a small amount (just throwing an idea out there).

imo id just do the sound yourselves... have someone with a long cable or wireless so they can go out into the dance floor to check levels, a sound man isnt worth half your money

Or if you insist on a soundman, pay him an equal share as a band member. He gets paid what each member of the band gets paid.

If he can't deal with it, then you really can't afford a guy like that. He may be great for your sound, but at $250 a pop, he's taking a cut into your profits. He gets guaranteed money, while yours is negotiated money. In the long run, it's best to get your own PA and have someone in the band do sound until you get consistently high paying gigs that will afford you a sound guy.

As far as the New Year's Eve gig, the club is low-balling you. I wouldn't take that amount. Ask for double or triple that amount and go from there. If they balk, then let them know you are seeking other options.

You have the PA and you're going to pay some guy $250 just to run your equipment? Find somebody else.

How about telling the bar owner that you will do it for $500 plus the door and then charge a small amount (just throwing an idea out there).

No, The $250 includes there equipment, setup, light show, etc.. which is all Pro gear. I just found out We can get him for $200 for just sound!

Thanks for updating your profile.

I'd say $500 around Springfield, MA sounds pretty fair for a new band.

I think you should totally do the sound yourself. Just make sure you do a good sound check. If you can, have the mixer off to the side of the stage in case you need to make adjustments mid show. I play gigs all the time where we do our own sound and it sounds just fine. That said, I've done large gigs with expensive pro sound that has been horrible.

Good luck. If you get a good draw and the bar makes good money you should be able to negotiate a raise for the next gig.

As far as the New Year's Eve gig, the club is low-balling you. I wouldn't take that amount. Ask for double or triple that amount and go from there. If they balk, then let them know you are seeking other options.

+1

My disco band get triple on New Years Eve. It is pretty standard to get 2x or 3x. NYE is THE money night.

Are you playing originals?

I'd say it would be wise for you to take the gig on New Years Eve, regardless. Try to get more cash, but if this is one of your early gigs, you probably are lucky playing New Years Eve at a club instead of a party.

I know it's pretty brutal in Southern California for original bands to get gigs on NYE. My band is actually going out of state on a short tour during the week so we can make some more cash.

$500 is a great rate for a brand new band. Don't EVER worry about what some other band makes - it'll lead you straight to trouble. For example, I got a gig playing for a church group one time at their regular monthly concert. I went to the concert the month before, and asked the band how much the gig paid. They told me $XXX. I was pleasantly surprised to discover that this was more than twice what we usually charged for a gig, and decided to rent some pro level gear for the occasion (subs, wireless mics, etc).

The day of the gig comes up, we rent the gear, and we even have to pay a backup drummer because our normal guy got sick (I was dumb and instead of promising the backup guy "an equal cut", I actually quoted him the $). No problem, I think, because we're still getting paid $XXX.

So we play the show, and the head honcho hands me a check. To my horror, it's a check for HALF what I expected. I go to the honcho - "Last month's band got $XXX!" He tells me that the other band required that much just to come play, but they had to double their budget for the month to afford them. THIS was their normal budget for bands, he explained.

Defeated, I go back to crunch numbers. Turns out that after paying for the rental gear and paying the guaranteed $ for the drummer, I actually lost twenty bucks on the gig, and the other members of the band made zilch.

Don't worry about what other bands make. Honestly, my band has been playing around the midwest for almost three years now, and we very rarely make that kind of cash - almost never in a guarantee. Most of it comes through merch sales and donations. Of course, we work in other perks, like food and sleeping accomodations, so I imagine it all comes out in the wash. Take the $500 gig and keep going from there.

Sound men - they're nice, but certainly not worth $200 on a bar gig. Run your own sound from the stage or pay a musician friend 50 bucks to do it. Heck, usually even a girlfriend has adequate hearing to say, "The vocals need to be a little louder"... So yeah, it's a bar gig. They're not going to be expecting a pro sound man. At most, pay a sound man an equal share to what the band members will get. No more (unless he's hauling in all his own gear and you just have to get there and plug in).

I don't know what to advise about the NYE gig. I'm actually going to be out of town for NYE, so my band isn't doing anything... but yeah, it is usually the big money maker. Usually, I'd say to hold out for a bigger paying gig, but man, it IS now the second week of November. 52 days until NYE. A gig in the hand is worth three in the bush and all that jazz... lol...

If it were me, I'd take the NYE gig and be relieved that I had NYE covered. If something else comes up, you can politely say that you've already been booked for NYE, but they're welcome to book you some other date.

plus there was only 80 or so people in the bar for the band we opened for.. and we brought 30 of them. Would you guys take this deal? Whats the going rate for a new band? He also offered us New Years Eve for $500, And I know bands usually get double pay. what do ya think?

what's the going rate for a new band? hmmmm how about $20bucks and a fist up your butt????? :)

hell you should tickled pink someone is offering you $500 bucks in your early stages. that will pay for gas, promotion, CDs, etc....

it also depends on what kind of place it is....i find in our circut most of the FUN gigs are less payed and the ones that pay better are kinda lame...example we play this crap hole with a great sound system and we'll have a hundred people show up and dance like crazy...and we'll make MAYBE $400....but we play some hoity toity resteraunt type places sometimes were we want to shoot ourselves after the gig for $700....but it pays for other stuff...

MOST places we play we get the door...so we had to build a crowd...so we may have made $30 bucks our first time but have made fans in the area and are now making $500 at the same place...

so in short go play and have and take the damn money! if y'all pack the place you have leverage and you can ask for more money..if y'all are just bringing in 30 people be happy they are paying you that kind of dough!:)

Sound men - they're nice, but certainly not worth $200 on a bar gig. Run your own sound from the stage or pay a musician friend 50 bucks to do it. Heck, usually even a girlfriend has adequate hearing to say, "The vocals need to be a little louder"... So yeah, it's a bar gig. They're not going to be expecting a pro sound man. At most, pay a sound man an equal share to what the band members will get. No more (unless he's hauling in all his own gear and you just have to get there and plug in).

I.

yeah

Are you playing originals?

I'd say it would be wise for you to take the gig on New Years Eve, regardless. Try to get more cash, but if this is one of your early gigs, you probably are lucky playing New Years Eve at a club instead of a party.

I know it's pretty brutal in Southern California for original bands to get gigs on NYE. My band is actually going out of state on a short tour during the week so we can make some more cash.

No, We are a 80's to new rock cover band.. I tried the original thing for years, and it just never went anywhere. At my age the dream is gone.. I just enjoy playing music with my mates. I'll even go as far to say money is not an issue, as I have a day job that more then pays the bills.. but it pains me to see bar owners raking in the $$ from others efforts.

No, We are a 80's to new rock cover band.. I tried the original thing for years, and it just never went anywhere. At my age the dream is gone.. I just enjoy playing music with my mates. I'll even go as far to say money is not an issue, as I have a day job that more then pays the bills.. but it pains me to see bar owners raking in the $$ from others efforts.

ooohhh well i don't know anyhting about cover bands so forget everything i said :)

wait so they had a cover band open for a cover band? different genres?

No, The $250 includes there equipment, setup, light show, etc.. which is all Pro gear. I just found out We can get him for $200 for just sound!

Do you mean still including PA, or just a "briefcase gig" where he walks in and mixes on your system?

Personally, when I mix I'll rarely consider an equal share arrangement. You make more than me (which is common), fine; less, don't cry about it. If it ends up costing you out of pocket, that's your risk, not mine. I'm not there just for the fun of it, dig? But it never hurts to ask...

But I also usually am hired by the club, not the band. And many clubs will not be thrilled to see you bring in a random friend with "good ears". How good are their ears when you start getting full-tilt feedback in the third monitor mix? There are way too many different situations out there to generalize about standard rates and so on. I think you might be on the right track paying an established company the first time or two until you know what you really need to do the gig successfully though.

Best of luck in any case, and have fun!

Do you mean still including PA, or just a "briefcase gig" where he walks in and mixes on your system?

Personally, when I mix I'll rarely consider an equal share arrangement. You make more than me (which is common), fine; less, don't cry about it. If it ends up costing you out of pocket, that's your risk, not mine. I'm not there just for the fun of it, dig? But it never hurts to ask...

But I also usually am hired by the club, not the band. And many clubs will not be thrilled to see you bring in a random friend with "good ears". How good are their ears when you start getting full-tilt feedback in the third monitor mix? There are way too many different situations out there to generalize about standard rates and so on. I think you might be on the right track paying an established company the first time or two until you know what you really need to do the gig successfully though.

Best of luck in any case, and have fun!


The Sound guy would be bringing all the PA equipment and setting it up etc... for $200. The club doen't have a house PA. The club could handle 400 to 500 people. We opened for the other band with only 2 weeks notice, thats why we only had 30 people. I think we could do 75 or so maybe..but not 150.. that would be pushing it!

The Sound guy would be bringing all the PA equipment and setting it up etc... for $200. The club doesn't have a house PA. The club could handle 400 to 500 people. We opened for the other band with only 2 weeks notice, thats why we only had 30 people. I think we could do 75 or so maybe..but not 150.. that would be pushing it!

OK, then you maybe get to decide whether you want good sound in the whole club, or just on the dance floor. Try asking the sound provider what he thinks about that. Maybe you can negotiate a little better deal if your needs aren't really as demanding as he probably assumed. You might also approach him about just helping set up up your system properly and making sure it's working as well as it can, assuming he thinks it could do the job. I've done that lots of times, and usually I'll throw in a little training for a band member or friend while I'm at it.

Most sound guys want to work with you, but remember that the good ones usually got good by being businesslike.:cool:

And many clubs will not be thrilled to see you bring in a random friend with "good ears". How good are their ears when you start getting full-tilt feedback in the third monitor mix?
Why are your monitors up loud enough to feed back in the first place? ;)

Thousands of bands mix from the stage every day. Unless you're getting enough money to justify the expense, don't worry about a soundman, especially not a relative stranger who doesn't know your set.

At this level, it's only worth it if it's someone who knows your music and knows what you should sound like - a girlfriend or a fellow musician, for example. When we started the band that I'm in now, we had a friend who was incredibly gifted at mixing sound. She knew next to nothing about the technical aspect of it, and EQ'ing was very basic, but as far as simply mixing levels? It was perfection. It was fun to watch her work - she calmly moves faders around in situations where I'd be all over the EQ knobs trying in vain to get the sound that she did simply by turning the guitar down a bit.

Anyway, she joined the band at the same level as any other band member. She came to rehearsals, we all hauled gear equally, and we all got paid equally. It was nice to not have to worry about sound in front. A lot of guys just set sound levels and leave it. She'd always be working the board - pushing guitar just a bit for a certain riff to ring out, pushing backup vox here and there, maybe cutting back on kick drum when we'd soften up... That's the only way that a soundman is particularly useful at this level, IMHO.

Anyway, she joined the band at the same level as any other band member. She came to rehearsals, we all hauled gear equally, and we all got paid equally.

That's exactly how I got started doing sound, about 30 years ago. It's a time-honored way to get started, no reason it can't still work well.

There are way too many potential situations extant for me to assume that hiring a pro would or wouldn't be worth it in this case. But if the OP isn't sure, a little peace of mind might not be a bad thing IMHO. Thousands of bands might sound better with someone out front, or not...:cool:

Thousands of bands might sound better with someone out front, or not...:cool:
I guess it just comes down to how much you're willing to pay for that "might". I think my band members would be a bit annoyed if they thought they were getting paid nearly a hundred bucks for the night and instead got a tick over fifty just because half the check went to some sound guy.

Of course, if he's hauling his own sound and you don't want to have to deal with it, I guess it "might" be worth it...

But since you have your own PA already... man, I'd just low ball it. ESPECIALLY since a bad sound man will do more to hurt your sound than a good one can do to help (I especially love church sound men who believe that vocals should comprise half the house volume... sigh).

I'm going to go against the grain and tell you to hire a sound guy. If don't need the gig money to eat, then pay a little dues (literally and figurative) to have a professional sound. A pro EAW/Community/JBL/whatever system is going to always sound better with a pro running it than some bar band Peavey or Beheringer equipment run from the stage. If you're in this band for the long haul, you might at well get a reputation early on as being a band with a professional sound.

Just my $.02

Is $500 a good deal? yes it is!

The most we ever get or ask for is usually petrol money :p

Thanks for all the responses everyone. We have decided to take the 22nd gig and pass on NYE. We also found out that the bar owner has an opening act for us, so we only need to play 2 sets for the same money. :)

So this thread has split into to two topics - how much you should expect to receive as a new band on a new gig, and whether you should spend some of those hard-earned dollars on a sound man.

On the first point -
The bar manager is always going to pay you based on his estimation of how many people you can draw. Everything else flows from this concept. If he thinks you can't draw, then any "threats" you make about shopping your time elsewhere will harm you more than help you.

In some cases, as has been mentioned, you can negotiate a piece of the door in return for no guarantee at all. If you feel confident that your draw capability is more than the bar manager thinks it is, you can try this approach. If you do, though, make sure you have a guy at the door counting heads all night long, standing next to the bar's door guy. Here in Denver, there is a certain manager at a certain jazz club who is notorious for shorting bands on their covers.

Even the guarantees are based on draw, really. You may have to start a little low, and $500 is not that bad. Take the gig, do a great job, bring in some of your people to watch and buy drinks, and after a few months of successful outings talk to the guy again about a raise - just like a real job. The better job you do, the more of an asset you will be to the manager, and he will be eager to work with you.

I have less to say about a soundman, although I would suggest that if you plan to play out a lot, you will probably find that a lot of bard lack PA support. I just got a catalog in the mail yesterday from one of the big direct-order companies (rhymes with "Marvin"), and they have a powered 8 channel, 800-watt PA system for $959, which comes with a couple mics and stands. After two gigs, you could buy that and then you would have it. Of course you could spend a lot more too...

Best luck.