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What makes us say that someone is a good bass player? I am asking because I am currently studying the DB. What I am currently doing is taking what I already know on BG and am applying it to DB. I have problems in the thumb position. This is above the nineth fret on a bass guitar. Thinking of the bassists I have studied that were known for thier bass playing, Paul McCartney and Duck Dunn don't seem to venture above this area much. In my own experience as a working musician, I have encoutered more people that just wanted me to play basic stuff down low, rather than try to explore other possibilities. I am not looking for an excuse to not play further up on the neck, but just because someone has the ability to play fast melodies high on the neck, does that really mean that they are a better player than someone who sticks to the basics? Just asking for opinions.

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What makes us say that someone is a good bass player? I am asking because I am currently studying the DB. What I am currently doing is taking what I already know on BG and am applying it to DB. I have problems in the thumb position. This is above the nineth fret on a bass guitar. Thinking of the bassists I have studied that were known for thier bass playing, Paul McCartney and Duck Dunn don't seem to venture above this area much. In my own experience as a working musician, I have encoutered more people that just wanted me to play basic stuff down low, rather than try to explore other possibilities. I am not looking for an excuse to not play further up on the neck, but just because someone has the ability to play fast melodies high on the neck, does that really mean that they are a better player than someone who sticks to the basics? Just asking for opinions.

Well, in my opinion, there is only what pleases you. If that is "good" then, so be it ("Let it Be...") A proficient bassist is, perhaps, now viewed as one who can play in tune the entire finger/fret board. And play with expression ... in a musical sense, with the music he/she makes with the instrument. Bassists are in demand when they can play a variety of styles and have "chops" but those that play only "one-five-one" are needed too in most every ensemble. So, whether you are good or not is not relevant. Whether you have the skills for the job or the music you want to play is relevant. "I'm gooood when I play baaaad!"
PN:hyper:

Thanks Patrick. I wrote in another thread that I felt that I started to become a better player when I quit worrying about technique and virtuosity. Not that I don't practice or study, just that I try to do my job as a bassist. It has honestly opened me up to being able to play many different musical styles. I am coming from the Bass Guitar world, and haven't really played Double Bass since high school (class of 1981). I still find the same attitudes from other musicians on DB that I did on BG. It's cool that I know all this other stuff, but just stick to the basics. From other bass players, if I don't play like a virtuoso, then I don't know what I am doing. I guess I am a basic player with a virtuoso attitude, and I am loving pllaying music. That is what is most important.

I can't solo to save my life, like a deer in the headlights every time I get thrown a solo.......

I rarely venture beyond the 12th fret on my BG and since I'm getting my very first upright tomorrow, I imagine it will be months of practice before I venture out of the Half Position and First Position.

I am playing 3 nights a week now without really even trying to network and I think it is mostly because I am reliable, sing harmony, help load in and out without being asked and I can be counted on to just keep it simple and anchor time and the bottom and let the other players shine. Like the offensive guard on a football team, my job is to protect the backfield (someone else's analogy, I don't remember who.) I think I am really pretty average, especially for someone who has played over 30 years, but I learned from watching and listening to some of the best players in Austin that 99% of the time, they underplay and just concentrate on the groove. Spencer Starnes is a monster on EB and upright and when I was studying what he played on a local artist's CD that I was going to play with, I was amazed that for all of his chops, he completely underplayed and just kicked the groove in the rear. Like a rock solid clock.

The players that blow me away:

keep it simple and groove with authority; they OWN the groove
are humble about their gift
solo effortlessly when it is their time to shine
are nice folks off the stage and on

That's what bass playing is all about Charlie Brown....
Bill

just thought of a few exceptions to what I said made a good bass player above:

McCartney - incredibly melodic bass lines while STILL anchoring the bottom

Chris Squire - unique tone with that Rick and a pick, very complex EB lines, I realized quickly in high school, as much as I loved Yes, I was never going to be Chris Squire

Flea - what a right hand!

Jaco - innovator of the 1st degree

I know these are all EB examples and I am in the DB section, but I don't know enough BD players yet to comment.

Bill

Bilco:

My point exactly. I once read an article on the Beatles solo careers where it described Wings as being made up of several fine musicians. McCartney in his own right a first class and highly underrated bassist.
I have heard people talk about Milt Hinton as being one of the greats in Jazz bass playing. Again, everything I have heard him play on has very simple bass lines to it.
Willie Dixon as a blues player on upright, Tommy Shannon - Electric Blues. Both great players,yet relatively simple playing.

Then there are the Chris Squire, Geddy Lee, John Entwistle, Stanley Clarke, Jaco, Dave Holland, Brian Bromberg, and Mingus's. These are the virtuosos and innovators that I was always pressed to listen to and play like when I was younger.

I walked away from DB when I was 18, favoring BG, and started back at the age of 43 this past summer. I feel like I haven't a clue on this instrument, struggling to (just barely) keep the basic time and rythm, yet my Lead Guitarist thinks I play upright absolutely fabulous. I am striving to improve on DB for, at least, my own comfort of doing my job as a bassist, not to become a virtuoso as I have tried (and failed at) on BG. Everybody thinks I play decently, so I guess that is what is really important. The fact that I think I'm bad just drives me to improve, which I guess is equally important. It kind of balances itself out.

I bet you are better than you THINK you are !! ;)

Well, it's time to go make the half notes..... Have a good night,
Bill

Not to sound arrogant, but I know I am. At least that is what people tell me.

Seriously man I don't let boundaries such as "bassist only play one note at a time" or "only play the low notes" bother me at all. Do all you can with the bass, and just enjoy playing. GO ahead, play some chords with a drumstick, finger tap Bach, and run songs in harmonics. Play a whole song above the twelfth fret, don't let any bass stereotype bother you at all. If you don't like the ninth fret and above don't use it, but if you don't go up there just because your guitarist or drummer told you to, get a new band. Bass players need to be freer to experiment. Whatever man, just play and have a good time:bassist: http://www.talkbass.com/forum/images/smilies/guitarist.gif
:bassist:

Toberoo,

I have never let the typical boundries of other musicians opinions of bass stereotypes stop me from doing my thing.
On BG, I can play comfortably from one end of the neck to the other. Not so for me yet on DB; I am still working on it. It is just a psychological thing with me that since I don't have a good grasp of the instrument as a whole, then am I doing alright to just stand/lay back for a while, use what I know as I learn to use what I don't know?

I think in terms of playing Jazz, which is what I am attempting, it is essential to have a good grasp of theory. Note choice is sooo important in outlining a chord. Also, knowing a lot of tunes is very important. Although most playing is done in the lower positions, becoming comfortable in thumb position and being able to solo up there is one thing that defines the better players.

BTW, I'm still working on all of this myself.

I agree with the general attitudes here. Like orchestral music, there are the section players and the soloists, obviously it's not as extreme for jazz.

One thing about Jaco and Stanley - they were able to stretch out and be soloists almost exclusively in their bands because *everybody* in the band grooved. There are guys like Larry Gray, John Patitucci, and Gary Peacock who lay down a solid groove for everyone, including the listener, then move into virtuoso-soloist mode at the right times.

At my level, I *have* to keep the groove going for everyone, with the drummers' help, if he's there. :)

Clink, and JazzDude,

It is my opinion that the bass player needs to know the most theory of anyone in the band. When I was teaching people to play BG, one of my favorite songs to use was AC/DC - Back In Black. Why? Due to the fact that the bass player plays one note in the progression that isn't a root note, and I had my students figure out what was happening, and why it works. Not that other musicians don't need to understand theory, but I feel that if you are a rythm player, rather than a soloist, you can color the music more due to note choices, and a good grasp of theory helps in that endeavor.