I was interested in a barker, but then I heard the sound clips on the website and realized that I'd rather stick with a real acoustic upright.
I found the sustain to be overbearing.
I guess I'm the only one.
If I wanted to sound like I played an electric with two single coils, I guess I'd just go buy an electric with two single coils.
I prefer the real thing.

Well, no bass is for everybody, but why bother posting this?

I was interested in a barker, but then I heard the sound clips on the website and realized that I'd rather stick with a real acoustic upright.
I found the sustain to be overbearing.
I guess I'm the only one.
If I wanted to sound like I played an electric with two single coils, I guess I'd just go buy an electric with two single coils.
I prefer the real thing.
No offense intended here, but why would you be considering a Barker if you want a DB :confused: :confused: And to base your opinion on a sound clip from a web site is probably not the best route to take ...... :rolleyes:

Oh man!

I thought this was going to be a soundclip of "But Not For Me" played on a Barker.

I'm not sure why, but I've had that tune stuck in my head for the last month or so.

I was interested in a barker, but then I heard the sound clips on the website and realized that I'd rather stick with a real acoustic upright.
I found the sustain to be overbearing.
I guess I'm the only one.
If I wanted to sound like I played an electric with two single coils, I guess I'd just go buy an electric with two single coils.
I prefer the real thing.

Does it make you happy to post this? There are lots of basses I don't like. Most of us don't go starting posts about them though.

I think the nice thing to do would be delete this thread. But then again that's just my opinion.

Interesting subject, sustain.

It is my opinion that a tone that starts to decay is immediately losing warmth. That's why I enjoy starting with sustain.

But certainly it isn't an all the time virtue. Brian Ritchie, as you may know, plays a lot of acoustic bass guitar in his Violent Femmes concerts. We're talking volume here, with a capital 11. I asked him how he dealt with the feedback problem.

I think this applies. The word is muting, or damping. He said, "I don't know exactly, I just do it with my hands!" So he's stopping the sustain-to-feedback chain early on probably with a combination of moves, both hands.

Todd Johnson has a really slick way to describe how he mutes with his right thumb (Playing his Zon bass guitar). Same result--clarity of tone, apparent just as long as he wants it and no longer.

The final item here is the Barker Mute Set, a product that has been gathering dust but lately, thanks to Doug Mancini and Iotanet bringing theirs to NAMM, has seen a resurgence in interest.

My job will be to start a thread about them and post a photo. Give me a bit of time, and then remind me!

Kindly,

Lee

Here is one reason I like my BArker Bass (named Bob, by my students - one of them saw it the other day and shouted out - "The Bass is Right! It's Bob the Barker Bass!!!!). I am a firm NON-believer in complex tone knobs, pre-amps and Mid Range frequency adjustments and 12 band EQ's etc. The bass will sound good by itself or it won't. My Barker has two volume knobs and ONE tone knob. Simplicity, thy name is Barker....The rest of the tone adjustment comes from my hands. Sustain is the same thing. From the hands.... Give me a bass with a butt load of sustain (can you say Bob the BArker Bass?) that I can control with left and right hand, and I will take it over a bass with less sustain where the note dies before I want it to. And by the way, I put a small piece of foam under the strings at the bridge (like Carol Kay used to do with her instruments - tho sometimes she also put some felt across the top of the strings at the bridge), and use the neck pickup, tone knob almost all the way down, and I get a pretty good upright tone from this thing. Thumpy, woody and dark. I hope to be taking this baby out on a Jazz gig soon.... can't wait.
PAige

Well, no bass is for everybody, but why bother posting this?

Does it make you happy to post this? There are lots of basses I don't like. Most of us don't go starting posts about them though.

I think the nice thing to do would be delete this thread. But then again that's just my opinion.


I disagree - I think the real value of TB in this context, is that you do actually get "negatives" about gear.

So we know that in magazines like Bass Player, no reviewer is going to say anything bad about a product for fear of upsetting potential advertisers and no pro is going to put off potential sponsors!

Also - a lot of review forums are over-run by inexperienced people who have just bought some piece of gear and want to tell the whole world about their enthusiasm!

I think TB is just about the only place that you can pick up on negative points about gear and hear about things that may mean something is not for you!

Long may it last IMO - if this is stopped, then there will be nowhere at all for people to find out about the downsides of products! :(

Your point is well taken, Bruce. One of the reasons I enjoy TB is the give-and-take of gear opinions, where we can get both sides, so to speak.

That said, in the case of this post, the negative opinion is based solely on a sound clip(s) from a web site ... no actual use of the instrument, no real-time playing, and not even in response to some other comment. Just a basic "I don't like it" with no real reason for the post.

I deeply value other opinions, both pro and con, but when they aren't supported by anything other than a sound clip, it just gives me the impression that there is a different motive at hand ......

I think the motive was to say if you don't like too much sustain and want a more natural decay like on DB, then why would you get one of these basses?

A reasonable point to bring up IMO !

.... ahhh, what the heck, it's a slow day at work ..... ;)

Still don't know why someone would post a negative opinion about sustain when discussing an instrument known for having tremendous sustain. Kind of like posting a negative opinion in a Corvette forum complaining it goes too fast, or posting a complaint in the ERB forum that a 7 string bass has too many strings :eyebrow:

Well it's a topic for discussion - so when I first got my NS CR5, it was bit too much like fretless BG and I asked around the forums here about this and got a great suggestion from Francois to try using orchestral strings.

I bought some Pirastro DB strings and these really cut down on the BG-like sustain. :)

Topic of discussion for sure .... the Barker is a sustaining mo-fo, and if the player isn't comfortable with various muting techniques when and where needed, it'll ring forever. I haven't tried other string sets (currently have LaBella nylon tapewounds on it), but we're sort of stuck with the standard EB strings.

I use LaBella Deep Talkin' flats on most of the other basses, so I'll likely be switching out the tapewounds shortly ... :cool:

have you tried Thomastik Jazz Flats? Low tension flats that have been my personal fav since Carol Kaye turned me on to them years ago. They sound GREAT on the Barker.
paige

I was interested in a barker, but then I heard the sound clips on the website and realized that I'd rather stick with a real acoustic upright.
I found the sustain to be overbearing.
<snip>

Here's my take on sustain in a bass guitar: If it's there, I can control it. If it isn't there, I can't put it in.

I'd rather have the sustain in there. :cool: later, ron

Your point is well taken, Bruce. One of the reasons I enjoy TB is the give-and-take of gear opinions, where we can get both sides, so to speak.

That said, in the case of this post, the negative opinion is based solely on a sound clip(s) from a web site ... no actual use of the instrument, no real-time playing, and not even in response to some other comment. Just a basic "I don't like it" with no real reason for the post.

I deeply value other opinions, both pro and con, but when they aren't supported by anything other than a sound clip, it just gives me the impression that there is a different motive at hand ......

I've never seen or heard anyone play a Barker. I'd never heard of Barker until I found TalkBass, and I was intrigued. Like the original poster, I was curious to hear what they sounded like, went to the website, and listened to clips. I never posted anything about my impressions, but after listening to the clips, I completely lost interest in the Barker bass.

Granted, if I ever see someone playing a Barker live, I'll be curious and will be likely to check it out (if it sounds good enough to draw me in). Not a knock, just an observation. In fact, I have been impressed with the professionalism, detachment, and objectivity of Mr. Barker's posts. However, like the OP, the sound clips I listened to quenched my interest almost immediately.

I was interested in a barker, but then I heard the sound clips on the website and realized that I'd rather stick with a real acoustic upright.
I found the sustain to be overbearing.
I guess I'm the only one.
If I wanted to sound like I played an electric with two single coils, I guess I'd just go buy an electric with two single coils.
I prefer the real thing.

I didn't think that the point of a Barker was to replace an acoustic upright, but to "upright" the electric bass to alleviate back issues and such...am I wrong?

Thanks for the post, and the compliment, Jazzdog.

Now I am wondering: How many TBers have a subwoofer in their computer speaker array? Obviously that's unanswerable! Would readers of this thread be willing to just respond with a yep or nope? It would be a highly unscientific study.

Also, I am wondering if those who are listening to the sound clips also view the video of Eric Owens playing. Adding the visual aspect must have some added effect, but I don't know exactly what.

On we go!

Kindly,
Lee

My non-studio computers do not have subwoofers connected.

I didn't think that the point of a Barker was to replace an acoustic upright, but to "upright" the electric bass to alleviate back issues and such...am I wrong?Shelly -

You are absolutely right.

I didn't think that the point of a Barker was to replace an acoustic upright, but to "upright" the electric bass to alleviate back issues and such...am I wrong?

You are absolutely right--the genesis was wrist pain. The other benefits of the instrument made themselves known later.

As for acoustic upright, it is what it is and those who have chosen to electrify it have done a lot of hard work and come up with some amazing, intriguing and creative results.

The Barker is not at all related to that family.


Here's part of my elevator speech: When Leo Fender took on the challenge of inadequate bass signals to record with electric guitar for Elvis and others, he made the decision to do four things:
1. use metal wrapped strings and a magnetic pickup
2. reduce the scale length from 42" to 34"
3. add frets (hence "precision bass")
4. put it in a guitar shape.

It is my thought that had he done just the first three, his first product would have looked something like a Barker.

So perhaps, if there's any innovation at all in what I've done, it might be looked upon as subtraction rather than creation.

And it's a whole lot of fun to play.

Kindly,

Lee

Thanks for the post, and the compliment, Jazzdog.

Now I am wondering: How many TBers have a subwoofer in their computer speaker array? Obviously that's unanswerable! Would readers of this thread be willing to just respond with a yep or nope? It would be a highly unscientific study.

Also, I am wondering if those who are listening to the sound clips also view the video of Eric Owens playing. Adding the visual aspect must have some added effect, but I don't know exactly what.

On we go!

Kindly,
Lee

Hi Lee,

I listened to the clips using a pair of Sennheiser HD590 headphones.

to summarize so far: some people like sustain, some don't. this helps the world go 'round. :hyper:

i like the sound clips on the barker home page. you have to listen to them all, not just the one that plays when you open the page.

the best thing the barker helped me with was my constant shoulder/neck pain. it is now much less; completely gone sometimes when playing the barker vertical bass.

whenever i play a regular 'horizontal' bass, after about twenty minutes my shoulder and neck remind me why i don't play those things much anymore. :cool: later, ron

p.s. hey lee, i like the 'addition by subtraction' approach.

You are absolutely right--the genesis was wrist pain. The other benefits of the instrument made themselves known later.

As for acoustic upright, it is what it is and those who have chosen to electrify it have done a lot of hard work and come up with some amazing, intriguing and creative results.

The Barker is not at all related to that family.


Here's part of my elevator speech: When Leo Fender took on the challenge of inadequate bass signals to record with electric guitar for Elvis and others, he made the decision to do four things:
1. use metal wrapped strings and a magnetic pickup
2. reduce the scale length from 42" to 34"
3. add frets (hence "precision bass")
4. put it in a guitar shape.

It is my thought that had he done just the first three, his first product would have looked something like a Barker.

So perhaps, if there's any innovation at all in what I've done, it might be looked upon as subtraction rather than creation.

And it's a whole lot of fun to play.

Kindly,

Lee

I found the sustain to be overbearing.


sustain is a beautful thing.
apprently the color is not yet in this cat's palette.
when it finally is, he'll begin to get what the barker sound is about.

mutes will control the sustain:

http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?t=423230

later, ron

I found the sustain to be overbearing.


sustain is a beautful thing.
apprently the color is not yet in this cat's palette.
when it finally is, he'll begin to get what the barker sound is about.

My connection with Barker basses was somewhat strange as I stated in my review on this forum. I don't remember now if I paid much attention to the clips or not.

I saw the instrument, and it immediately made sense to me. And up until that point, the thought of buying another instrument, let alone one sight unseen, was the furthest from my mind at the time.

But, I digress.

Since switching to flats about 6 months ago, the sustain level has changed somewhat for me but it is still there in huge amounts. And I guess I wound up living in the camp where I would rather have the sustain and be able to mute it with my hands. I'm not really sure if that is something I started to do once I began playing the Barker more, or if I always did it with my old P-bass and never noticed it as much. I do know that I have always wanted more sustain at some times and less others, depending on the moment.

I also agree the the Barker is not, nor intended to be a substitute for an EUB. It does however lend it itself well to those styles of music that someone would choose an EUB or DB for. And yet I play all kinds of music with it and it is always up to the task.

I and other essentially non-biased players, consider it a tone monster. At a recent blues festival lately, where as one might imagine the Fender bass reigns supreme, after the set several players approached me. Some I knew, others I had never met and all with no particular axe or agenda to grind, went out of their way to tell me how much they dug the sound.
For me, in that setting with that many bassists and basses all playing on the same stage through the same rig, it was a tremendous validation of what my own ears have telling me for quite some time.

Yes, it easier on my back and wrists,etc. But I would play one if there were no particular physical benefits at all.

As Lee and others have mentioned before, if one is the type of player that lives in a world of only the upright and the conventional electric, that's cool and God bless. But amazingly there are other tonal and ergonomic alternatives out there.

Oh and +1 on it being fun to play:)

JKT:bassist:

JKT, I wanna see your Barker someday. Admittedly the concept intrigues me. If I wear my trad bass any higher, and tip the neck up any more, it'll be an " unergonomic" Barker.

No rush, as I am disciplining my gas. You play out with it, obviously, I'll try and catch a gig. I'll show up with clean hands, so maybe I can touch it! ;) Hmmm.. I see the village of Hamburg concert. Cool thats a walk to the he park for me! See you there.

JKT, I wanna see your Barker someday. Admittedly the concept intrigues me. If I wear my trad bass any higher, and tip the neck up any more, it'll be an " unergonomic" Barker.

No rush, as I am disciplining my gas. You play out with it, obviously, I'll try and catch a gig. I'll show up with clean hands, so maybe I can touch it! ;) Hmmm.. I see the village of Hamburg concert. Cool thats a walk to the he park for me! See you there.

Get there at the right time and you can help me soundcheck it! Seriously, anytime. You get really curious, I'm a nice leisurely drive north to Lake Ontario.

JKT

I'm planning on bringing the kids up early, the 7 yr old is a blues singer. Maybe Donovan an sit in with you guys! ;) Kidding, but he does dig the blues. Odd stuff for a 7 yr old, but I'm runnin' with it. I'll see ya.

I'm planning on bringing the kids up early, the 7 yr old is a blues singer. Maybe Donovan an sit in with you guys! ;) Kidding, but he does dig the blues. Odd stuff for a 7 yr old, but I'm runnin' with it. I'll see ya.

See ya there!