I've read the stickies and haven't found yet something to help me so I'll post this.

I just realized that sandpaper can't do everything so I will have to buy some tools so if I have to buy some tools to keep going wih my project it will be better to get some power tools (I don't want to sweat all my extra kilos out using hand tools :)).

With that in mind the first thing that came to my mind was a router. I have read a lot of posts and see a lot of pics here and know that after sandpaper I won't use anything as much as a router.

I'll be buying one this weekend so I want to know what do I have to have in mind to buy one (it will be a cheap one) and what kind of bits do I need? Nothing too fancy because I won't be able to find it here or it will be too expensive (remember that I live in Peru).

I saw at Ace Home Center a small and cheap SKIL router and I don't know if this one will be enough.

What about the bits? I read the thread about templade guide kits (got a bit confused about the types of bits mentioned there) but I'm not sure to find one here. What do I need for control & pickups cavities, neck pocket and rounded edges of the body?

Making all what I just wrote short: I need a router so I'll get one. Could you give me some sort of shopping list with the things I need for a bass building project please?

Ok, bits that you need specifically for instrument building id reccommend a 1/4" shank mounted straight cutter bit, and a 1/4" end mounted straight cutter bit. Also i suggest getting a dish cutting bit, you can use this on a planing jig to plane your wood. The shank mounted bit is great to use when you are routing pickup cavities, you just make a template and then route, no worries.

Great. What about for rounding the edges of the body??

Anything that I have to have special care when looking for the router itself? A cheap router is enough for bass building?

No, a cheap router (those Craftsman $80 1/4" bit burnouts) just isn't good when cutting hardwoods and really fine quality woods.

I'm currently working on a viking-style coffee table for my basement, and I knew I'd need a new router.

After many routing projects and my two bass body attempts, I've finally convinced myself that finding a quality router is the best investment for my woodshop. So I found this:

Bosch 2.25HP Combination Plunge & Fixed-Base Electronic Router (http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?action=productDetail&productId=136633-353-1617EVSPK&lpage=none)

http://images.lowes.com/product/000346/000346318654.jpg Lowe's item Item #: 136633 - Bosch Model: 1617EVSPK

This was a heck of a deal. $219.99 gets you:

Hardshell molded plastic case (with router bit holders)
Fixed base with Side-Guide attachment points
Plunge-base with fine adjustments
POWERFUL
6-speed variable control which is so nice for hardwoods and softwoods and even fine sheet metal
Plexiglass vacuum funnel and chip guard
1/4" AND 1/2" bit collets

And most important, it was packaged with this:

http://www.toolbarn.com/images//bosch/ra1054.jpg
Universal Edge Guide #BOSRA1054

This lets you follow table tops or external templates. Already useful on my viking coffee table project for detail-cutting the legs! I'm loving this attachment.

I'm telling you, my buddy and I looked at and tested DeWalt, Ryobi, Craftsman, Ridgid, Porter-Cable... everything. This was a hell of a deal, AND a great router. I'm thoroughly suprised and impressed with everything so far.

If anyone's looking for a new router, go find this guy and check it out. If you find better quality with more accessories at a better price, TELL ME.

for rounding the body, go with the CMT round over bit (it's orange). I used this and it works great. If it's set up correctly, the 3/4" bit can cut up up 1 1/2" thick basses (doing the top and then the back or vice versa).

I would also suggest getting some spiral carbide bits, they leave a very clean cut, so almost no cleanup is required.

Greg

This was a heck of a deal. $219.99

One problem is that if you spent $219 in the states, I will have to spend about $350 here. Another problem is that I haven't see that model here. Not all model are imported so my choices are reduced. That's why I would like to know what I should have to look for in a router (other than just the price).

I would also suggest getting some spiral carbide bits, they leave a very clean cut, so almost no cleanup is required.
Greg

Any special size bit for this? maybe 1/2"?

get a few, I suggest 1/8" for the carbon fiber rods, 1/4" for smaller stuff, and then 1/2"

The more sizes you have, the easier it will be to do things (from my little experience)

Greg

The problem is that I´m going to buy a router + some bits and all that is not going to be cheap here. A $100 router at US should be around $170 here and $25 should be around $35-$40 and I wouldn't like to spend $400 in all these stuff.

So far I have this:

- Router
- 1/4" shank mounter straight cutter
- 1/4" end shank mounter straight cutter
- Dish cutting
- 3/4" round over bit
- 1/2" spiral carbide and\or 1/4" spiral carbide

Is there anything else? What about the router characteristics?

I use a Bosch router and am very happy with it. what I am less happy about is the price.
The router mentioned in the above post at $219 is £284 in the UK that is
$560 without the side fence.
It is totally crap the price of everything in this country.

You should take a walk around here to see some prices!!! We could compete for who have the most crappy prices!!! :)

how do you feel about purchasing your router on-line? I know that Porter-Cable sells reconditioned routers at about 30% (or more!) off of retail price.

for router bits, you simply can't beat the pricing, selection, and service of routerbits.com

for router power, I would consider nothing less than 1-3/4HP as an absolute minimum. a 2-1/4HP with variable speed control and a micro-adjustment for the depth is what you really want to look for. I've used both DeWalt and Porter-Cable and prefer the P-C for endurance, but I liked the micro-adjust on the DeWalt plunge better

all the best,

R

how do you feel about purchasing your router on-line? I know that Porter-Cable sells reconditioned routers at about 30% (or more!) off of retail price.

for router bits, you simply can't beat the pricing, selection, and service of routerbits.com

for router power, I would consider nothing less than 1-3/4HP as an absolute minimum. a 2-1/4HP with variable speed control and a micro-adjustment for the depth is what you really want to look for. I've used both DeWalt and Porter-Cable and prefer the P-C for endurance, but I liked the micro-adjust on the DeWalt plunge better

all the best,

R

Aduana taxes and aduana agent usually would eat me alive but talking about 30% less would be an option. I'll take a look at them ...thanks. Online shopping are great for stuff under $100 :(. Here $100 are the limit for no aduana taxes nor aduana agent to get your stuff out of aduana office (aduana agent can get worse than a lawyer :D).

I was reading about collet sizes. 1/4" and 1/2"? Which one is better?

Hey Eleonn....Look for a 1/2" collet if it's in your price range this will give you the option...later on of buying 1/2" shank bits which are usually more stable. 1/2" collets alo come with a 1/4" adapter so you can use either 1/2" or 1/4" in the same router.

Bits...my suggestion would be...1/2" Pattern bit(Guide bearing on top of bit), 1/2" flush trim bit(bearing on bottom), 1/2" roundover, and 1/4" straight ....all 2 flute or 3 flute.

This bit set up is the basic, but will allow you to do all your template work and save you time.

The suggested routers are of course great. They cost a fortune in Sweden, too! So I get by, so far with success, with a cheapo noname thing. Probably chinese...
What you must have is >800W. The more power you can get, the less time will it take to get a good result. This size routers normally come with 6 and 8mm collets.

You need the pattern bits first. Roundover is good, too, I use a 1/2". Spend the extra money to get spiral pattern bits, if they are available. Saves a lot of sanding.
Then you add new bits on accord - when you see a need and have the money.

Router guides should also be investigated. They can do the job of the pattern bits, perhaps even better, and then you can buy simpler/cheaper or better bits without bearings.

Well... crap.

I guess if you can't get the whole shebang, then take Rodent's advice.

Minimum 1-3/4HP
Micro-adjustment to be precise
Plunge base, over the fixed base, especially to do pickup and electronics pockets
1/2" and 1/4" collet. It'll allow you to jump up to really large bits, yet use all the small ones with an adapter.

The Bosch I have has the collet trapped inside the tightening nut. It's very convenient and keeps you from dropping the collet and rolling under a table or something.

Best I can find is this one:

http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/P/B00005RHPG.01._SS500_SCLZZZZZZZ_V1067933607_.jpg

Bosch model 1613AEVS


DeWalt equivalent:

http://www.dewalt.com//ProductImages/PC_Graphics/PHOTOS/DEWALT/TOOLS/LARGE/6/DW621_1.jpg

DeWalt Model DW621 (http://www.tylertool.com/dwheavdut2hp.html) but even this one is expensive as hell.


Aside from these guys, it's tough to say which one to get, cuz I dunno which brands or which models are available in your neck of the woods.

Can you look up as many of them as you can find available to you, and maybe post links to them? It's easier to choose when we know what you can actually get your hands on, as opposed to just throwing a bunch of model numbers at you that you can't even get. Heck, you could even do it as a poll, and see which one gets the most votes from us.

Bosch 1613 EVS....hmmm..one of my favorites personally....LOL

That is a nice pickup template!!

Bryan, I will try to jump over Ace today at night and see what models (and prices) they have.

I guess that the shop list for bits is this:

- 1/4" spiral carbide
- 1/2" roundover bit
- 1/2" pattern bit (is this the same as shank mounted straight cutter?)
- 1/2" flush trim (and this the same as end shank mounted straight cutter?)
- Dish cutting

This is kind of funny. Hardly touched a hammer three months ago and now I'm buying tools and powertools. I have a bunch of scrap so I can practice a lot before get into the real thing. Have to admit that those things are a bit scary for what they can do with a finger (or two)!! ...I guess this is good so I will have extra careful when I use some of them.

That is a nice pickup template!!
.


Actually they are a set of wood shells for pick-up covers. But a good example of what you can do with a router. LOL

YES YES YES PRACTICE A TON!!!

Go buy some 2x4's or 2x6's and glue them together, then make an entire guitar body using your new router. Do the neck pocket, pickups and electronics, output jack hole, round over the edges, everything. That will teach you where you can and cannot use a router, how it feels, how to get clean smooth edges, and to get used to the tool itself. practice using the plunger and setting the depth so you get exactly as deep as you want it each time.

Take a notepad and write everything down. Every detail, every price, everything.

Also, to save on money, look into getting a SET of router bits! It's expensive like crazy to get individual bits (although they're usually of the best quality) compared to getting a 15-bit set that would have the bits you need plus more for future projects down the road. I bought a 45-degree V bit for putting chamfers on the edges of things or for cutting perfect V grooves in the face of timbers. That bit is great, but cost me $20. I later found a kit that had the same bit, plus 7 more, for $30. Yeah, it wasn't of the utmost perfect quality, but that kit woulda got me by, and got me extra bits! So do your shopping well. Look at everything, cuz sometimes you'll miss a detail and it'll bite your wallet.

Actually they are a set of wood shells for pick-up covers. But a good example of what you can do with a router. LOL

I`m glad to see that I`m not the only one to scoff the old kitchen table and relegate it to shop use:ninja:

Question: what's the advantage of a fixed base over a plunge base? I sometimes see some of the better routers sold with the plunge base only. Is there some disadvantage to always using the plunge setup in the down position, other than the larger size? I haven't yet used a plunge router to know the answer myself. Is height adjustment harder?

Fixed bases are stable and level. I love how steady they are for doing fine cuts. Also, they'll usually have easy attachments for vacuum hoses, and attaching those side guides for doing table edges or shaping on sides of boards, like slotting.

Also, you can't mount a plunge base to a router table.

Question: what's the advantage of a fixed base over a plunge base? I sometimes see some of the better routers sold with the plunge base only. Is there some disadvantage to always using the plunge setup in the down position, other than the larger size? I haven't yet used a plunge router to know the answer myself. Is height adjustment harder?

Plunge routers allow you to reset depth of cut quicker, and without removing the router fro the workpiece. Most Plunge Routers have a micro adjust feature too that allows anything from 1/8th to 128th of an inch adjustment. These are the 2 features I use most, and why I have a few Plunge Routers. I also have a couple of fixed base routers I use, but less often.

And...it's not a Kitchen Table....LOL..I did have an old Kitchen table in my old shop.:eek:
That though is part of the 24 Linear feet of Birch topped benches I built in my new shop.:D :bassist:

I like the note-thing on the second pic, that one next to the wings :D

NIIIIIIIIIIIIICE place to make sawdust. NIIIIIIIICE!!!!

Does that oscillating drum sander allow you to tilt the table? I've got a decent Ridgid sander:

http://www.homedepot.com/cmc_upload/HDUS/EN_US/asset/images/eplus/165531_3.jpg

...but this sucker is just weak. I want a really GOOD oscillating sander.

...
And...it's not a Kitchen Table....LOL..I did have an old Kitchen table in my old shop.:eek:
That though is part of the 24 Linear feet of Birch topped benches I built in my new shop.:D :bassist:

but those ARE Kitchen cabinets on the wall!!! :D

but those ARE Kitchen cabinets on the wall!!! :D

Ooooooohhh... guilty.....

Eleonn..you have some good eyes....LOL:eek:

As for the Spindle sander, no, unfortunately it s fixed in place, due to the size of the New Shop(584 sq ft minus the 70 sq ft Spray Booth):hiding: I have no need to do any angular sanding on that, I am lucky enough to have jigs for any angular sanding I may need to do. I agree about the Ridgid, the best thing about having my previous shop blown up by the neighboring meth lab:rolleyes: (go figure.....yeah, photo developing...that's it), was that the Rigid spindle/belt sander melted;) ...LMAO I bought the Ryobi 4 or 5 years ago and it woks as well as my Delta.

As for the cabinets.....LMAO No...they are Shop Cabinets.:p ...they have never been in a Kitchen, nor will they ever be in a Kitchen, thus,....They are Shop Cabinets...LMAO:D :hiding:

And yes, it's a pretty nice place to make chips, ribbon, and dust, once again, I have had some luck, and a lot of hard work, I built the shop from the ground up basically by myself with some help from my wife(Friends Suck). Took 2 years, and all of my savings, but it's up and running since September, and I am finally working again. Thanks again

Those are too pretty to be shop cabinets. Turn your Man Card in at the door on your way over to the Daisy Rock Bass Forums.






Heh heh.


And you have TERRIBLE friends! I'm always helping my buddies when they ask me, "Pimp My Garage!" I'm still trying to help my friend price out insulating his garage completely and running another circuit to the garage to dedicate just to lighting.

You need more bass players for friends.

Best part about where you place your spindle sander is there's TONS of room all around it. Good move.

Those are too pretty to be shop cabinets. Turn your Man Card in at the door on your way over to the Daisy Rock Bass Forums.

LMAO....Sorry, I am a CHARTER Member of the wood addicts club, so the nice benches and cabinets stay...LMAO



And you have TERRIBLE friends! I'm always helping my buddies when they ask me, "Pimp My Garage!" I'm still trying to help my friend price out insulating his garage completely and running another circuit to the garage to dedicate just to lighting.

You need more bass players for friends.

Best part about where you place your spindle sander is there's TONS of room all around it. Good move.

Yeah, Bass Player Friends......LMFAO....ALL Musicians around here are useless and lazy....one of the reasons I don't play in a band anymore. My friends are the type to always want and rarely ever give.....must be the selfishness thing...LOL

I need more friends like the guys on this forum....people with vision, ambition, and willing to help out anyone. It's one of the reasons I still come to this site. Good people such as yourself.

Ok ...just came from Ace and this is what I got:

There was a DeWalt and Black & Decker models. They looked awesome but their prices not. Each one was around $500. Both are so out of race that I won't even mention the models but there was another 3 models: 2 Black & Decker and 1 Skil.

- Skil 1830 (1100w). This is it:
http://ocs.skileurope.com/skilocs-default/Product.jsp;jsessionid=C21775A191BEA7822BA44203392 F45F0?&ccat_id=280&prod_id=274 But the one here brings 5 extra bits and a hardcase. Here is the pic of the whole package http://ocs.skileurope.com/skilocs-es/Product.jsp;jsessionid=BBF34ABE4B57893C5ED6F514817 222E0?&ccat_id=280&prod_id=275
Price: $119
BTW 1100 watts = 1.5 HP

- Now comes the first Black & Decker, KW850E (1100w)and this is it:
http://www.blackanddecker.cl/prod/cata/listProdDeta.asp?prodId=KW850E Sorry. I didn't find any link in english but I think that the important information are numbers so...
Price: $117

- And finally there was this one: Black & Decker RP250BE (1200w)
http://www.blackanddecker.cl/Prod/Cata/listProdDeta.asp?prodID=RP250BE-B2&idGrup=herr&idCate=MADE That link is in spanish but I think that US version should be this:
http://www.blackanddecker.com/productguide/product-details.aspx?productid=14796&toolview=4#details Though there are options that are mention in the first link that are not in the second one for example the collet size. First link mentions 3 sizes (6mm, 8mm and 1/4") and the second just one (1/4").
Price: $117

All those routers have only 1/4" collets.

About the bits, there were a few bosch bits, all between $10 and $20. Didn't find any dish cutting bit or pattern bit :(

There are another 3 places where I can take a look. One of it is something like ACE so it must have almost the same things at closer prices. The other two places are tool dedicated places for big companies so they will probably with just one brand and usually big prices.

Sooooo... if ACE were my only option:( ...which one is the best from the three models?

I would go with the 2nd Black and Decker( Black and Decker makes Dewalt) 2.0 hp always better than 1.5, and the edge guide is a plus. you will appreciate the extra HP especially on hard woods. I think #2 Black and Decker would be your best choice. My opinion

Go with the horsepower. But with that said, good sharp bits, proper setup, proper cutting speeds and technique can make a smaller router shine. Also plan your routes. (bit rotation and direction).

The problem is that that Black & Decker have only 1.6 HP (2.0HP = 1450 watt). But I guess that 1.6 is better than 1.5 right?

I also like that the plunge shafts have the good-quality dust covers, and from my experience, oiled shafts and dry sawdust and chips are a BAD combination. You will notice the smooth action of the plunger deteriorate quickly with unprotected shafts. You won't like that.

Go with the second Black and Decker.

Well I guess this thread is closed. Thank you very much guys for you suggestions and advices!! On friday I will take a look over the other two places and if I don't find anything else better for a price close to this one I'll be buying the second Black and Decker and just a few bits for the moment.

good luck to you eleonn