What is the lyric on James Brown's classic "The Payback"?

That's a easy one......crazy.

That's a easy one......crazy.

that's what I thought as well, but some in the "Randy Jackson Alchemy" thread in the strings section seem to differ.

that song is ka-razily funky.

that song is ka-razily funky.

now that we can all agree upon :)

You just have to listen to how he pronounces 'karate'. He doesn't do the long 'e' sound on the last syllable. He does the 'ah' sound, just like he does for 'crazy'

'I don't know KA-rat-AH, but I know KA-raz-AH!'

I have very little doubt about this one.

You just have to listen to how he pronounces 'karate'. He doesn't do the long 'e' sound on the last syllable. He does the 'ah' sound, just like he does for 'crazy'

'I don't know KA-rat-AH, but I know KA-raz-AH!'

I have very little doubt about this one.

You're on the right track but...

There's no long "e" in karate. That's because Karate is commonly pronounced Kuh-Rah-Tay. No long "e" in sight.

Stretching "Kuh-Ray zuh" to equal "Kuh-Ray-Zee"? That's just "kuh-ray-zee". If he had said "kuh-ray-zay" I could understand the confusion. He didn't.

Like I said, I guess you had to be there.

If you listen to it carefully, he's saying "'Cause I speak of the Pompetus of Love."

You're on the right track but...

There's no long "e" in karate. That's because Karate is commonly pronounced Kuh-Rah-Tay. No long "e" in sight.

Stretching "Kuh-Ray zuh" to equal "Kuh-Ray-Zee"? That's just "kuh-ray-zee". If he had said "kuh-ray-zay" I could understand the confusion. He didn't.

Like I said, I guess you had to be there.

now, your argument is almost silly. Clearly JB pronounces karate with the long e sound which rhymes with Kuh-ray-zee, regardless of how the word may be commonly pronounced.

And please quit with the "you had to be there" stuff, it adds nothing to your argument since you were not in the studio when the song was recorded.

now, your argument is almost silly. Clearly JB pronounces karate with the long e sound which rhymes with Kuh-ray-zee, regardless of how the word may be commonly pronounced.

He doesn't pronounce it on the track with a long "e", does he? Have you listened to the track or not?

And please quit with the "you had to be there" stuff, it adds nothing to your argument since you were not in the studio when the song was recorded.

I'm talking about being around when the track came out. Understanding the language at that time. Knowing the circumstances. If you think being a contemporary of Brown adds nothing to this debate, cool. In any event, here's something to actually think about (or not of course) along with a link to the track so you can actually hear what you've been READING about;):


from the string thread:
Every lyric site that I have checked states the lyrics as ka-razy, however I don't think that will be enough to convince those on the ka-razor side (I know that lyric websites are notoriously inaccurate at times).

Of the 10 or so sites I have seen, only one had the lyric written as ka-razor.

I guess one out of ten ain't bad.
:D

Man, this must be what it felt like when the Catholic church was arguing the texts that would later comprise the Bible (. . . and yes, that is a joke).

It's far from being that complicated. Anyone really familiar with how Brown spoke and sang who actually thinks he's saying kuh-ray-zuh and meant k-razy, raise your hand. This is just plain wrong... listen to the track.

Here: http://odeo.com/audio/4626113/view

a little after 3:30
:hmm:

When Brown later asks for hits and says he wants the "same one" THREE TIMES, according to the lyrics online he says "Say it once (3xs)". He's asking for the same hit they did before. Why would he say "say it once" three times? That's silly. Heck, some even contain the same typo: "Get ready I need it, I ened a hit again".
:rolleyes:

Paraphrasing Barbara Billingsley from Airplane: "Can I help? I speak James Brown"
:D

"Chump change"? :D

My favorite screwed up lyric other than the K-razy stuff is "Hit 'em again". ANYONE who knows James Brown would know it's "Hit ME!". Trust the sheets on that too?


Those lyrics on line have obviously been copied from one place to another and while they're admirably close for people who don't really listen to Brown, they blew some key Brown phrases.

If you don't know you better ask somebody.
:D

You just have to listen to how he pronounces 'karate'. He doesn't do the long 'e' sound on the last syllable. He does the 'ah' sound, just like he does for 'crazy'

'I don't know KA-rat-AH, but I know KA-raz-AH!'

I have very little doubt about this one.

:confused:

Don't you hear the long "e" on karate? Cabcreaser does.

If you listen to it carefully, he's saying "'Cause I speak of the Pompetus of Love."

This one is alot easier than that one.
:D

:confused:

Don't you hear the long "e" on karate? Cabcreaser does.

No, he clearly says "kuh-ray-zah" on the track (and his vocal on the later "Rapp Payback" - sounds nearly identical although, to my ears, sounds even less like krazor). I was criticizing your method of evaluating the rhyme (i.e., discussing optional pronunciations of karate,etc.), particularly as a means to justify what you hear. We have all heard the track (in my case, hundreds of times) and we will all continue to hear it the way we hear it (which is cool).

The question is regarding intent of meaning.

The fact of the matter is he says "kuh-ray-zah" and to some it sounds like krazor and to others it sounds like crazy. Neither side can definitively state which one it is. Fortunately, the song is funky.

Its Ka-Razor. Ka-ray-zee would not have meant anything that someone would have said about themselves, in the venacular of that day; it was an insult and one that would get you cut!. But back then, even I carried a razor.:)

No, he clearly says "kuh-ray-zah" on the track (and his vocal on the later "Rapp Payback" - sounds nearly identical although, to my ears, sounds even less like krazor). I was criticizing your method of evaluating the rhyme (i.e., discussing optional pronunciations of karate,etc.), particularly as a means to justify what you hear. We have all heard the track (in my case, hundreds of times) and we will all continue to hear it the way we hear it (which is cool).

I wasn't discussing optional pronunciations of karate. I was explaing how people AT THAT TIME pronounced it. If you know who John Saxon and Jim Kelly are and saw them in movies AT THAT TIME, you know that. Somehow I doubt you do or did.

The weird thing is that you say you hear the same thing I'm hearing and you somehow think there's a snowball's chance that he's saying crazy. That just shows a complete ignorance of how some people talked back then. I OTOH grew up in that culture, played that song when it was new and saw Brown several times. That is very pertinent because this is basically like (if I were you) me arguing the meaning of Cockney rhymes with a Brit:D

The question is regarding intent of meaning.

The fact of the matter is he says "kuh-ray-zah" and to some it sounds like krazor and to others it sounds like crazy. Neither side can definitively state which one it is. Fortunately, the song is funky.

How the heck does "zah" sound like "ee"?:eyebrow:. Give me another word that might be pronounced like this odd pronunciation of crazy.

OTOH that type of pronunciation of that last syllable is very common in southern US language. Gator, refrigerator, later,
ad nauseum all get pronounced without the hard "r" on the end.

Heck, watch an episode of "In the Heat of the Night" and listen to Carroll O'Connor:D

His intent was the same as many people AT THAT TIME. Come at me with that karate stuff and I'll cut you. AGAIN, this is what was done AT THAT TIME. Shooting was pretty rare.

Like Brown would say, If you don't know you better ask somebody;). Except you're getting it explained to you and you don't like the explanation. No, you didn't have to be in the studio with Brown during the recording to know how people talked in the early 70's.

Some of those translations are flat out laughable. Do you hear him saying "chump change" as your links say or "chicken change"? Do you think he yelled "Hit em"?

Hey, don't believe me. This is just a glaring situation of someone not understanding the vernacular.
:D

Its Ka-Razor. Ka-ray-zee would not have meant anything that someone would have said about themselves, in the venacular of that day; it was an insult and one that would get you cut!. But back then, even I carried a razor.:)

There it is.
:D

Telling someone you were crazy back then would've done absolutely no good. It would've gotten your crazy a$$ cut:D

Crazy is what you might call someone else. It was an insult.

Seems some of these people might be confusing James Brown with Dr. Detroit;)

Hit 'em! (3xs)
:rolleyes: :D

i know he says k-razy, but i think he also says t-reza (as in the name) at some point. just a little thing i might of heard, i love all jb tunes and listen to them ALOT.

i know he says k-razy, but i think he also says t-reza (as in the name) at some point. just a little thing i might of heard, i love all jb tunes and listen to them ALOT.

If that's what you hear you really need to listen to the song again. I provided a link.

Where do you think he's saying t-reza?

I was going to bail on this thread till I saw post #9. I knew it would be entertaining after that.:hiding:

I wasn't discussing optional pronunciations of karate. I was explaing how people AT THAT TIME pronounced it. If you know who John Saxon and Jim Kelly are and saw them in movies AT THAT TIME, you know that. Somehow I doubt you do or did.

The weird thing is that you say you hear the same thing I'm hearing and you somehow think there's a snowball's chance that he's saying crazy. That just shows a complete ignorance of how some people talked back then. I OTOH grew up in that culture, played that song when it was new and saw Brown several times. That is very pertinent because this is basically like (if I were you) me arguing the meaning of Cockney rhymes with a Brit:D



How the heck does "zah" sound like "ee"?:eyebrow:. Give me another word that might be pronounced like this odd pronunciation of crazy.

OTOH that type of pronunciation of that last syllable is very common in southern US language. Gator, refrigerator, later,
ad nauseum all get pronounced without the hard "r" on the end.

Heck, watch an episode of "In the Heat of the Night" and listen to Carroll O'Connor:D

His intent was the same as many people AT THAT TIME. Come at me with that karate stuff and I'll cut you. AGAIN, this is what was done AT THAT TIME. Shooting was pretty rare.

Like Brown would say, If you don't know you better ask somebody;). Except you're getting it explained to you and you don't like the explanation. No, you didn't have to be in the studio with Brown during the recording to know how people talked in the early 70's.

Some of those translations are flat out laughable. Do you hear him saying "chump change" as your links say or "chicken change"? Do you think he yelled "Hit em"?

Hey, don't believe me. This is just a glaring situation of someone not understanding the vernacular.
:D

notice Brad, I purposefully did not post links. WE COMPLETELY AGREE that lyric sites don't settle this at all.

Also, I really appreciate the thoroughness with which you have studied this and the lengths you have gone to get your point across. However, I still think when James Brown said "Kuh-ray-zuh" that he was mispronouncing crazy as opposed to accurately pronouncing "k-razor", whatever that word is.

My argument is quite simple, k-razor is not a word and crazy is.
James says "kuh-ray-zuh" and I think he is mispronouncing an existing word instead of accurately pronouncing a made up one.

Either way, I have thoroughly enjoyed this discussion, and I hope that all involved have as well.

. . . Also, I really appreciate the thoroughness with which you have studied this and the lengths you have gone to get your point across.

I just gotta jump in here. You completely missed Brad's point. He didn't "study" this . . . he LIVED it. I was a teenager in the late '50's, early '60's, and I, too, LIVED it. I saw JB "in person" (quite an impression - he had THREE drummers! Two of them would be playing all the time, with a different one resting on each tune as it came up. You see, this was BEFORE we had decent PA help. They were doing it for THE VOLUME, for the force of drums to reach the ears of the audience. The voices, the horns, and the B-3 was really all that was going through the very mid-rangey PA system. And there were about 2500 BLACK people there, plus my lily-white a$$. And it was LOUD!!)
I bought and listened to his records WHEN THEY FIRST CAME OUT!

My argument is quite simple, k-razor is not a word and crazy is . . . I think he is mispronouncing an existing word instead of accurately pronouncing a made up one.

Again, I don't think you understand . . . JB "invented" LOTS of words, also "invented" new meanings for existing words, and used a lot of "slang" and other "vulgar" usage of words (that were in common use among the "negros") in his lyrics. It's MUCH more likely, from a historical point of view, that he, in fact, WAS making up ANOTHER word . . . Ka-Razor, which I HAVE heard used, by black friends, in that way (comparing Ka-ra-zor with Ka-ra-te . . . AND with Ka-gun!)

I just gotta jump in here. You completely missed Brad's point. He didn't "study" this . . . he LIVED it.
Ahhh! You understand! Excellent!

I just gotta jump in here. You completely missed Brad's point. He didn't "study" this . . . he LIVED it. I was a teenager in the late '50's, early '60's, and I, too, LIVED it. I saw JB "in person" (quite an impression - he had THREE drummers! Two of them would be playing all the time, with a different one resting on each tune as it came up. You see, this was BEFORE we had decent PA help. They were doing it for THE VOLUME, for the force of drums to reach the ears of the audience. The voices, the horns, and the B-3 was really all that was going through the very mid-rangey PA system. And there were about 2500 BLACK people there, plus my lily-white a$$. And it was LOUD!!)
I bought and listened to his records WHEN THEY FIRST CAME OUT!



Again, I don't think you understand . . . JB "invented" LOTS of words, also "invented" new meanings for existing words, and used a lot of "slang" and other "vulgar" usage of words (that were in common use among the "negros") in his lyrics. It's MUCH more likely, from a historical point of view, that he, in fact, WAS making up ANOTHER word . . . Ka-Razor, which I HAVE heard used, by black friends, in that way (comparing Ka-ra-zor with Ka-ra-te . . . AND with Ka-gun!)

If you don't mind, not counting howls and uhs (real new hybrid words), what other words did James Brown invent?

I can't think of any and I have listened to a lot of James Brown.

James Brown is not James Joyce . . .

and lived it, schmived it, it is completely irrelevant to this discussion.

I just gotta jump in here. You completely missed Brad's point. He didn't "study" this . . . he LIVED it. I was a teenager in the late '50's, early '60's, and I, too, LIVED it. I saw JB "in person" (quite an impression - he had THREE drummers! Two of them would be playing all the time, with a different one resting on each tune as it came up. You see, this was BEFORE we had decent PA help. They were doing it for THE VOLUME, for the force of drums to reach the ears of the audience. The voices, the horns, and the B-3 was really all that was going through the very mid-rangey PA system. And there were about 2500 BLACK people there, plus my lily-white a$$. And it was LOUD!!)
I bought and listened to his records WHEN THEY FIRST CAME OUT!



Again, I don't think you understand . . . JB "invented" LOTS of words, also "invented" new meanings for existing words, and used a lot of "slang" and other "vulgar" usage of words (that were in common use among the "negros") in his lyrics. It's MUCH more likely, from a historical point of view, that he, in fact, WAS making up ANOTHER word . . . Ka-Razor, which I HAVE heard used, by black friends, in that way (comparing Ka-ra-zor with Ka-ra-te . . . AND with Ka-gun!)

You've obviously done your homework;)

I think I see why Cabcreaser is having difficulty understanding this... he wants to believe Brown wouldn't come up with a play on words. Why I do not know.

I stopped by Jong's store this afternoon (Jivesound in Alexandria, VA) and had a pretty good conversation about this subject. A friend, fellow bassist Preach remembers this the same as I did. We both came up in the 60's-70's and along with Jong (who is younger) got into a discussion about fighting, weapons and how much things have changed. Switchblades, razors, whip antennas, ice picks... it was an interesting conversation:D

I've already explained the use of razors back then. Anyone who doesn't want to believe it, cool. I'm not going to bother explaining how a play on words works, maybe Wikipedia can help. lbanks and I both explained how the term "crazy" was used back then (an insult) and it obviously isn't the same as now. Just the fact that someone is having this much difficulty understanding this pretty much proved my point... maybe you did have to be there;)

I guess the only thing that truly baffles me is that people are actually hearing the same phrase phonetically that I am and still, for whatever reason, translate that into what they want to it to be vs. what actually makes sense. Like they've never heard an accent before. That's cool too.
:D

Cabcreaser, how did JJ pronounce "karate" on Good Times? Go ahead, tell me that's irrelevant too:D

If you don't mind, not counting howls and uhs (real new hybrid words), what other words did James Brown invent?

I can't think of any and I have listened to a lot of James Brown.

James Brown is not James Joyce . . .

Well, golly, I guess that proves it:D

You will probably never get this, that much is now more than obvious.

He regularly dropped his "r"s. Lots of people did. And you don't know that.:hmm: .

As far as making up words, geez, did you ever watch ANY sitcoms back in the 70's?

Do you or do you not understand a play on words. You seem to be saying you don't. In this case you take a part of the first word and append it to the second. I don't know if Joyce ever used the form but a hell of a lot of people did back in the day. You clearly don't know that.

To paraphrase that famous basketball movie, you may have listened to a lot of James Brown but you clearly didn't "hear" him. Not by a long shot.

You're trying to make sense of slang and affectations you don't understand. Explain what a mother popcorn is (no, it's not the biggest kernel) ? Make sense of that. What's a good foot? Heck, what's a bad foot? How do you make the word "I" multisyllabic? Why is chicken change so hard for people to hear?

That's James Brown. You don't get it.

and lived it, schmived it, it is completely irrelevant to this discussion.

Aha!
JB never would've never said "schmived"... keep talking:D

To be clueless while declaring something irrelevant is priceless.

Did you live it? If not, don't hate. If so, how did you miss all of this?
:D

I completely acknowledge the prevalent usage of razors back in the day and, yes, James Brown is clearly capable of making up words, however, I still think that "K-razor" is a stretch.

Here are my reasons:

1) he would have pronounced it kuh-ray-zor as opposed to kuh-ray-zuh (as it was argued earlier, that would sound more like favor) - in addition, JB was from the south and not the northeast, I would expect a Kennedy to pronounce razor, razuh, but not anyone from the south. However, I have heard southerners pronounce crazy, krayz-uh.

2) JB has a much larger recorded history of mispronouncing existing words than he does creating words (simply choose a record and see how many actual, meaningful new words he uses compared to how many existing words he mispronounces). With the exception of this alleged "ka-razor" word, I can't think of any other instance where JB invented a new word that wasn't merely a sound (I can think of several instances of him mispronouncing existing words). I am not claiming he is incapable, I just think it is somewhat unprecedented and relies upon presumption.

3) A possible alternative lyric would be completely consistent with the rest of JB's career (as well as the rest of the tune, "The Payback") if a threat with a razor was JB's intent. The line would be, "I don't know karate, but I've gotta razor". Being incredibly blunt is one of JB's strongpoints, and masking the word razor with a "kuh" sound would be extraneous--JB was never flowery in his usage of language.

4) This whole "had to live it" argument falls flat until one of you that "lived it" can show me one recorded instance in the late 60's through the early 70's where ka-razor was used in this fashion other than this supposed lyric. Merely pointing out how common razor usage was at that time does not suffice. When JB says, or to be fair, if JB says, "I don't know karate, but I know ka-razy", there is nothing stated to rule out the possibility that his craziness still could potentially involve a razor. That is the all encompassing beauty of crazy as opposed to the limited scope of a razor.

:help: why do I find this so interesting?

Aha!
JB never would've never said "schmived"... keep talking:D

To be clueless while declaring something irrelevant is priceless.

Did you live it? If not, don't hate. If so, how did you miss all of this?
:D

According to the poll, I am clearly not the clueless one. Your interpretation of the lyric, last I checked, is trailing the one mentioning Randy Jackson strings (at this point it has received twice as many votes as yours).

What do you want me to type the rest in Yiddish, which I don't know, so you can think I am Jewish, which I am not, which would obviously mean I have no clue what JB meant. Wow, I would expect more from a fellow JB fan than to even remotely hint at that path.

He regularly dropped his "r"s. Lots of people did. And you don't know that.:hmm: .

:D

:confused: seems JB had no problem pronouncing favor in the previous line of the tune. weird that his accent would change that much in a matter of seconds isn't it?

Trust me, Brad, I am much older than you think. I have heard many people drop their "r"s, I am familiar with loads of slang, and attacks upon me are also completely irrelevant to this discussion.

Oh, well...
http://www.world-of-smilies.com/wos_essen/essen33.gif (http://www.World-of-Smilies.com)

of course that's pronounced "fee".
:D

I completely acknowledge the prevalent usage of razors back in the day and, yes, James Brown is clearly capable of making up words, however, I still think that "K-razor" is a stretch.

Here are my reasons:

1) he would have pronounced it kuh-ray-zor as opposed to kuh-ray-zuh (as it was argued earlier, that would sound more like favor) - in addition, JB was from the south and not the northeast, I would expect a Kennedy to pronounce razor, razuh, but not anyone from the south. However, I have heard southerners pronounce crazy, krayz-uh.

Because southerners and Black who had moved north didn't drop their "r"s? Go it.
:D

Kennedy's? jerry, that's comedy gold.

Has anyone else in this thread in their entire life heard someone pronounce crazy as krayz-uh? OMGLOFL.

2) JB has a much larger recorded history of mispronouncing existing words than he does creating words (simply choose a record and see how many actual, meaningful new words he uses compared to how many existing words he mispronounces). With the exception of this alleged "ka-razor" word, I can't think of any other instance where JB invented a new word that wasn't merely a sound (I can think of several instances of him mispronouncing existing words). I am not claiming he is incapable, I just think it is somewhat unprecedented and relies upon presumption.

You don't understand a very simple play on words. Again, cool. You win. You are incapable of understanding this.

3) A possible alternative lyric would be completely consistent with the rest of JB's career (as well as the rest of the tune, "The Payback") if a threat with a razor was JB's intent. The line would be, "I don't know karate, but I've gotta razor". Being incredibly blunt is one of JB's strongpoints, and masking the word razor with a "kuh" sound would be extraneous--JB was never flowery in his usage of language.

It's not masking, it's dropping the frickin' R. Talk about silly.

4) This whole "had to live it" argument falls flat until one of you that "lived it" can show me one recorded instance in the late 60's through the early 70's where ka-razor was used in this fashion other than this supposed lyric. Merely pointing out how common razor usage was at that time does not suffice. When JB says, or to be fair, if JB says, "I don't know karate, but I know ka-razy", there is nothing stated to rule out the possibility that his craziness still could potentially involve a razor. That is the all encompassing beauty of crazy as opposed to the limited scope of a razor.

Quite frankly that's just plain crazy. Ever heard:”The Joker” by Steve Miller? Do all of the lyrics have to appear in other 70’s music in order to have existed? Duh.

:help: why do I find this so interesting?

Probably because this isn’t an act, you truly can’t grasp the situation. So there’s clearly no point in continuing to try and explain it to you.

You win. You're so wrong it's not even funny but you win.

Krayz-uh indeed. LOL
:D

:confused: seems JB had no problem pronouncing favor in the previous line of the tune. weird that his accent would change that much in a matter of seconds isn't it?

Thank you, thank you, thank you.

The lyrics RHYME. Duh. He drops the "r" on favor JUST LIKE HE DOES ON RAZOR. You can clearly hear one but have some type of block on the other.

Favor and razor RHYME. Crazy doesn't. Duh.

Next:D

Trust me, Brad, I am much older than you think. I have heard many people drop their "r"s, I am familiar with loads of slang, and attacks upon me are also completely irrelevant to this discussion.

Silly, huh?
:eyebrow:

According to the poll, I am clearly not the clueless one. Your interpretation of the lyric, last I checked, is trailing the one mentioning Randy Jackson strings (at this point it has received twice as many votes as yours).

I've seen people hang onto some lame proof but this is rich. A TB poll proves what... besides other people also don't know what the heck he was saying?

Fixed it for ya:
"According to the poll, I am clearly not the ONLY clueless one".

Google "ka-razor lyrics" and see how many hits you get.
:hmm:



What do you want me to type the rest in Yiddish, which I don't know, so you can think I am Jewish, which I am not, which would obviously mean I have no clue what JB meant. Wow, I would expect more from a fellow JB fan than to even remotely hint at that path.

Did I ask you to type something in yiddish?
:confused:

Your ASSUMPTIONS are why you keep running into difficulties with this. I wouldn't know you from Adam. You don't understand how JB spoke. If you want to read anything more into it than that, it's on you.

Oh, well...
http://www.world-of-smilies.com/wos_essen/essen33.gif (http://www.World-of-Smilies.com)

Really. I didn't think this could get this deep.
:D

Re: karate...

now, your argument is almost silly. Clearly JB pronounces karate with the long e sound which rhymes with Kuh-ray-zee, regardless of how the word may be commonly pronounced.

Okay... the long "e" in both words is clearly there.

:hmm:

No, he clearly says "kuh-ray-zah" on the track (and his vocal on the later "Rapp Payback" - sounds nearly identical although, to my ears, sounds even less like krazor). I was criticizing your method of evaluating the rhyme (i.e., discussing optional pronunciations of karate,etc.), particularly as a means to justify what you hear. We have all heard the track (in my case, hundreds of times) and we will all continue to hear it the way we hear it (which is cool).

The question is regarding intent of meaning.

The fact of the matter is he says "kuh-ray-zah" and to some it sounds like krazor and to others it sounds like crazy. Neither side can definitively state which one it is. Fortunately, the song is funky.

Where the heck did the long "e"s go? They were CLEARLY here a while ago.


Thanks.
:D

Re: karate...



Okay... the long "e" in both words is clearly there.

:hmm:



Where the heck did the long "e"s go? They were CLEARLY here a while ago.


Thanks.
:D

I was phonetically spelling the term crazy as it could have been said to prove that it could rhyme with karate since the justification for the term razor was that it rhymed with favor (JB does not clearly enunciate either crazy or k-razor, he says kuh-ray-zuh and that is the problem). There is no question and there never has been that the term in question ended with anything other than an uh sound ON THE RECORDING. I would definitely hope that no one would have posted on this thread without having heard the track. I thought at that point we had already moved on to intent.

That argument was purely related to the rhyme explanation and nothing else.

I re-listened to the track and, to my ears, JB clearly pronounces favor differently from what you argue is razor. Trust me, I am not in this to win or lose, I just enjoy this kind of thing and it seems in that I am not alone.

And yes, polls prove virtually nothing which in some roundabout way brings us back to American Idol which leads back to Randy Jackson Alchemy strings. Anybody tried them yet? Man, after the intensity of this discussion, part of me feels like it would be foolish for me not to try them.

In addition, perhaps I should pick up the new Motorola KRZR phone:eek:.

In addition, perhaps I should pick up the new Motorola KRZR phone:eek:.

or is it the Motorola KRAZR phone? :hiding:

I was phonetically spelling the term crazy as it could have been said to prove that it could rhyme with karate since the justification for the term razor was that it rhymed with favor (JB does not clearly enunciate either crazy or k-razor, he says kuh-ray-zuh and that is the problem). There is no question and there never has been that the term in question ended with anything other than an uh sound ON THE RECORDING. I would definitely hope that no one would have posted on this thread without having heard the track. I thought at that point we had already moved on to intent.

I'm sorry, that's just plain bull. Why is a mystery. You clearly wrote:


now, your argument is almost silly. Clearly JB pronounces karate with the long e sound which rhymes with Kuh-ray-zee, regardless of how the word may be commonly pronounced.

That argument was purely related to the rhyme explanation and nothing else.

Oh really? Not even his pronunciation?
:D

I re-listened to the track and, to my ears, JB clearly pronounces favor differently from what you argue is razor. Trust me, I am not in this to win or lose, I just enjoy this kind of thing and it seems in that I am not alone.

And has it crossed your mind yet why he decided not to rhyme on that verse?

And yes, polls prove virtually nothing which in some roundabout way brings us back to American Idol which leads back to Randy Jackson Alchemy strings. Anybody tried them yet? Man, after the intensity of this discussion, part of me feels like it would be foolish for me not to try them.

In addition, perhaps I should pick up the new Motorola KRZR phone:eek:.

You were the one who just used the poll as some sort of proof, now you say it isn't. Your MO is consistent to say the least.

You mean the new crazy phones? Go fuh eet?

the long ee sound was only attributed to the word karate, which JB seems to use. I never once attributed the long ee sound to crazy except for phonetic pronunciation (yes that was tedious on my part and I definitely could have made it a heckuva lot clearer).

You mean the new crazy phones? Go fuh eet?

exactly

the long ee sound was only attributed to the word karate, which JB seems to use. I never once attributed the long ee sound to crazy except for phonetic pronunciation (yes that was tedious on my part and I definitely could have made it a heckuva lot clearer).

C'mon, you can't have it both ways;)

"Clearly JB pronounces karate with the long e sound which rhymes with Kuh-ray-zee, regardless of how the word may be commonly pronounced".

"No, he clearly says "kuh-ray-zah" on the track".


So karate rhymed with a word he said... and also didn't say.

Got it.

"i was for it before i was against it"

I will say that it seems those that saw the tune performed live saw JB make a gesture that only makes since with the term ka-razor. This is the best argument put forth and it makes me think that I, as well as the others that voted on this as "crazy", just might have been wrong.

:o

Quote:
Originally Posted by daveyfunk
i know he says k-razy, but i think he also says t-reza (as in the name) at some point. just a little thing i might of heard, i love all jb tunes and listen to them ALOT.

If that's what you hear you really need to listen to the song again. I provided a link.

Where do you think he's saying t-reza?

could've been on a live version or something, with brown improv. the lyrics. dunno for sure, but i remember it from somewhere... 'i dont know crazy...but i know t-reza' was the line

I stopped by Jong's store this afternoon (Jivesound in Alexandria, VA) and had a pretty good conversation about this subject. A friend, fellow bassist Preach remembers this the same as I did. We both came up in the 60's-70's and along with Jong (who is younger) got into a discussion about fighting, weapons and how much things have changed. Switchblades, razors, whip antennas, ice picks... it was an interesting conversation:D


Yes, it was an interesting discussion. Made me decide to upgrade my blade to an ice pick.:ninja:

The interesting part of the discussion was how "Crazy" went from a derogatory term that means "stupid" or "out of your mind", to a point of pride where "Crazy" means "don't mess with me". From Brad's days in the 60-70s, it changed meaning to the 70-80s where I grew up. Somewhere in the 80s it became cool to be "crazy". Gangstas loved to be known for being "insane to da brain" and there were gangs in Chicago that had "maniac" and "insane" in their names.

Anyway, JBs lyrical style was percussive. His whole musical style was percussive. The horns, guitars, keyboards, etc. were percussive and rhythmic. JB picked his words for the rhythmic value, as well as their lyrical value. Because of that -words were mispronounced intentionally, words were made up, and their cadence was altered.

The song "Big Payback" came out during his Black Pride stage of his career. It wasn't written or performed for mainstream White audiences. So, it wouldn't surpirse me if some of the vernacular and context would be lost today, and to those who weren't "there".

Hit Me!!!
Bomp-bomp-bomp-bomp-bomp-uuhhhhhhh!

Ha! "Super Bad"s on now Music Choice...
Carry on.

Ha! "Super Bad"s on now Music Choice...
Carry on.

Ah got sumthin', that makes me wanna shout.

That cut is like a Swiss watch movement of funk. Every little intricate part in just the right place, firing at exactly the right time, perfect mesh.

How many different ways can one man adlib "I"?:D

:bassist:

Yes, it was an interesting discussion. Made me decide to upgrade my blade to an ice pick.:ninja:

The interesting part of the discussion was how "Crazy" went from a derogatory term that means "stupid" or "out of your mind", to a point of pride where "Crazy" means "don't mess with me". From Brad's days in the 60-70s, it changed meaning to the 70-80s where I grew up. Somewhere in the 80s it became cool to be "crazy". Gangstas loved to be known for being "insane to da brain" and there were gangs in Chicago that had "maniac" and "insane" in their names.

Anyway, JBs lyrical style was percussive. His whole musical style was percussive. The horns, guitars, keyboards, etc. were percussive and rhythmic. JB picked his words for the rhythmic value, as well as their lyrical value. Because of that -words were mispronounced intentionally, words were made up, and their cadence was altered.

The song "Big Payback" came out during his Black Pride stage of his career. It wasn't written or performed for mainstream White audiences. So, it wouldn't surpirse me if some of the vernacular and context would be lost today, and to those who weren't "there".

Hit Me!!!
Bomp-bomp-bomp-bomp-bomp-uuhhhhhhh!

Preach and I came to the conclusion that neither one of us understood the words to Mandrill's "Fencewalk". I even performed it live when it came out. Still don't have a clue... so I decided to do a lyric search. The first hit was hilarious, you'll see why:

http://www.top40db.net/Lyrics/?SongID=73313&By=FlaggedLyric&Match=

I'll credit where credit's due, at least they did get most of JB's lyrics:D

Quote:
Originally Posted by daveyfunk
i know he says k-razy, but i think he also says t-reza (as in the name) at some point. just a little thing i might of heard, i love all jb tunes and listen to them ALOT.

If that's what you hear you really need to listen to the song again. I provided a link.

Where do you think he's saying t-reza?

could've been on a live version or something, with brown improv. the lyrics. dunno for sure, but i remember it from somewhere... 'i dont know crazy...but i know t-reza' was the line

M'kay

:D

Preach and I came to the conclusion that neither one of us understood the words to Mandrill's "Fencewalk". I even performed it live when it came out. Still don't have a clue... so I decided to do a lyric search. The first hit was hilarious, you'll see why:

http://www.top40db.net/Lyrics/?SongID=73313&By=FlaggedLyric&Match=

I'll credit where credit's due, at least they did get most of JB's lyrics:D
This is how I rember we did it:
Hey!
Got 'cho be my wollen-booty
not what you say
its what you do


Tellin' folks doing somethin'
That's Bad
Don't say you do
if I know you don't

chain on yo' field
like a stoneman
not what you think
its what you feel

'bout time you get to feelin'
don't fake a feel
if its not for real

But as I listen to it today, I'm not sure what they're saying.
:D

still jams!

Ah Mandrill, I saw them still together on BET-J recently, it made me happy, the first time I saw them was thirty five years ago.:eek:

The song "Big Payback" came out during his Black Pride stage of his career. It wasn't written or performed for mainstream White audiences. So, it wouldn't surpirse me if some of the vernacular and context would be lost today, and to those who weren't "there".

Hit Me!!!
Bomp-bomp-bomp-bomp-bomp-uuhhhhhhh!

Perhaps, it is not crazy or k-razor but instead a reference to Karaza (the Central African Republic). :hiding:

Perhaps, it is not crazy or k-razor but instead a reference to Karaza (the Central African Republic). :hiding:

I don't know KaRate, but I know Ka-wanzaa

Bomp, bomp, bomp, bomp
Bommmmmmmmmmm
Hey, hey, heyeeayee

Chink-a-dink-a-dink, dink-dink-dink
Chink-a-dink-a-dink, wahnahnownow

This is how I rember we did it:
Hey!
Got 'cho be my wollen-booty
not what you say
its what you do


Tellin' folks doing somethin'
That's Bad
Don't say you do
if I know you don't

chain on yo' field
like a stoneman
not what you think
its what you feel

'bout time you get to feelin'
don't fake a feel
if its not for real

But as I listen to it today, I'm not sure what they're saying.
:D

still jams!

I'm not touching this one.
:D

I don't know KaRate, but I know Ka-wanzaa

Bomp, bomp, bomp, bomp
Bommmmmmmmmmm
Hey, hey, heyeeayee

Chink-a-dink-a-dink, dink-dink-dink
Chink-a-dink-a-dink, wahnahnownow



No more February for you.
:eyebrow:




:D

Cabcreaser, how did JJ pronounce "karate" on Good Times?

"Steamthief's got the lyrics right,
That's straight from Kid (handclap) Dyn-O-Mite!"

"Steamthief's got the lyrics right,
That's straight from Kid (handclap) Dyn-O-Mite!"

I really love that JJ has now been referenced twice . . .

Well, the Good Times theme song is a jam...:bassist:

Cabcreaser, just noticed your new sig. LOL!

"Steamthief's got the lyrics right,
That's straight from Kid (handclap) Dyn-O-Mite!"

Even got the handclap right.
:D

Nice sigs everywhere;)

my new sig: On second thought... I am right.

I really love that JJ has now been referenced twice . . .


Good Times was a perfect example of some of the corniest slang Hollywood put forth as authentic. Most of it never to be heard IRL.

Michael (:rolleyes: with hands on hips): Jive turkey!

:D

Good Times was a perfect example of some of the corniest slang Hollywood put forth as authentic. Most of it never to be heard IRL.

Michael (:rolleyes: with hands on hips): Jive turkey!

:D

Brad, you just like Spring Break.

:confused:

No Class

:D

Brad, you just like Spring Break.

:confused:

No Class

:D

No joke, Jong but I was thinking of one of the several other Fat Albert jokes earlier today with the same punchline.

"You're just like school on Sunday".

They had a bunch of them:D

All the "razor" people should hand in their JB music! Just think about it!?... You ever see his act on stage?? that man knew he was crazy!! Watch them feets!

All the "razor" people should hand in there JB music! Just think about it!?... You ever see his act on stage?? that man knew he was crazy!! Watch them feets!
Ummmm....:eyebrow:

All the "razor" people should hand in their JB music! Just think about it!?... You ever see his act on stage?? that man knew he was crazy!! Watch them feets!

JB's act wasn't crazy. What you witnessed was The Hardest Working Man in Show Business.

JB's act wasn't crazy. What you witnessed was The Hardest Working Man in Show Business.

People may be using his later life as justification for thinking he said crazy. His dancing back then wasn't considered crazy, it was considered the coolest on the planet. Period. Thousands (maybe millions) of people imitated him... or at least they tried.

Then again, as already explained, if someone called him crazy back then, it would've been an insult. He certainly wouldn't have called himself that. It'd be like a woman calling herself a slut back then... sorry, just didn't happen.

Time frame, folks. It matters.

...What you witnessed was The Hardest Working Man in Show Business.

Now, ain't THAT the truth!

...His dancing back then wasn't considered crazy, it was considered the coolest on the planet. Period. Thousands (maybe millions) of people imitated him...

I think that Michael Jackson's dancing is the best example of that (imitating JB's moves) . . .

Now, ain't THAT the truth!



I think that Michael Jackson's dancing is the best example of that (imitating JB's moves) . . .

Ever see the video of Jackson when he was around 6 years old imitating Brown?

As good a dancer as he ended up being, I still don't think Jackosn was in the same class as JB. Nobody was.

MC Hammer probably did a better JB than Jackson.

. . . Jackson when he was around 6 years old imitating Brown? . . .

I think the operative word is "imitating" . . .

. . . I still don't think Jackosn was in the same class as JB. .

Yeah, MJ never really got past that "imitating" stuff . . . I mean, yeah, that "moon-walking" stuff MAYBE is his own S***, but just about EVERYTHING else he does is "James Brown" . . .

I think the operative word is "imitating" . . .



Yeah, MJ never really got past that "imitating" stuff . . . I mean, yeah, that "moon-walking" stuff IS his own S***, but just about EVERYTHING else he does is "James Brown" . . .

The moonwalk wasn't his... JB did the "camel walk" a long time before that. Forwards and backwards.

The moonwalk wasn't his... JB did the "camel walk" a long time before that. Forwards and backwards.

OK, you win.



But I STILL say that JB "invented" funk, too!

Here's a vid of James Brown and some of the dances he came up with - including the camel walk.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aEuPg2_iQEo