When I finger a note with my 4th finger must my 2nd and 1st fingers also press the string down.Or can I use my fingers independently
Note:i know that i should always use my 3rd and 4th fingers together.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by altugbas:
When I finger a note with my 4th finger must my 2nd and 1st fingers also press the string down.Or can I use my fingers independently <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's really bad technique and can lead to a lot of problems. The fingers don't have be "pressing", so to speak, but they should be down on the string against the fingerboard. I wrote a post about keeping the thumb down a while back, everything I wrote there applies here as well.

Well I could not find what you wrote actually.

Originally posted by altugbas
Well I could not find what you wrote actually.




Sorry, it seems to have disappeared. In short, not
keeping your fingers down can lead to a lot of ugly
noises and inaccurate shifting which is the cause of
poor intonation.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by altugbas
[B]When I finger a note with my 4th finger must my 2nd and 1st fingers also press the string down.Or can I use my fingers independently.You can't use your fingers indipendently......YOU HAVE TO DO IT!!!!!When you let a finger down on the fretboard,the others don't exist.Your hand have to be totaly relaxed.When you use 1 finger,concentrate only on it,while let the others relaxed.

Originally posted by altugbas
When you let a finger down on the fretboard,the others don't exist.Your hand have to be totaly relaxed.When you use 1 finger,concentrate only on it,while let the others relaxed.

I hope you mean relaxed, but in position, like David said.

Originally posted by reedo35

Originally posted by altugbas
When you let a finger down on the fretboard,the others don't exist.Your hand have to be totaly relaxed.When you use 1 finger,concentrate only on it,while let the others relaxed.

I hope you mean relaxed, but in position, like David said.
Hey Man,OF COURSE!!!!!

Having other fingers down behind the fourth finger has benefits beyond strengthening the fourth finger as others on this site have alluded to.

Part of basic string playing technique is to "solidify the note you're leaving" as you prepare to shift, wether up or down in pitch. Solidifying the fourth finger usually means that first or second finger should be in their corresponding positions especially if the note you're going to will be fingered with one of them (in fact, this should "always" be the case! 4 - 4 shifts are not as wise as any other combination, no matter how fast or slow the passage-work is).

So, in a more concise answer, "YES," having fingers down behind the fourth finger is a very wise and strong habit to get into, even and especially if you use a fingering system that uses "all four" fingers; they should never really be 'independant', but be working together.

using your first, second, and third strings may be helpful if you are playing slow but my advise is to develope the strength in you hand to use each finger individually because if you use that technique when playing 16th, 32nd, or even 64th notes all your fingers will have a tendency to get in each other's way if you are moving up and down the neck very quickly.

I riposte I would say that you will in fact be *more* accurate in fast passage work if you use other fingers to support third or fourth finger "fingering choices".

With most peoples' physiology, you'll be even more accurate of you avoid third finger when the passage work is fast and involves shifts to different positions.

I personally used to be very anti-Simandl, but I now recognize that, even with my large hands, Simandl positioning lends great strength to the hand and fingers when accuracy and swiftness is called for.

My most influential teachers have all been advocates of "extended fingering patterns", but they all have also come back to the "solidifying of the hand" (see above) when shifting and accuracy are wanting. Personal experimentation and trial and error in teaching has agreed with this. FWIW

[Edited by kpo on 08-23-2000 at 02:41 PM]

What trips me up every time is a dotted 64th followed by a 128th. It always ends up sounding like a 128th triplet with the first 2 notes tied. Does that happen to you? Must be my silly Simandl technique.

dammit, he's over here too. somebody grab 'im by the legs. i'll club em with my BASS GUITAR, as in BG as in not DB, as in not DOUBLE BASS :rolleyes:

you know, i see a DB thread hangin' around on the daily thread count for a few days, and i just know it - some BG guy got lost again. :D

sic'em, Johnny!

Hello everyone,

Can we please make this a place of opinions, discussion and learning, not a place of one-line siliness that wastes a LOT of people's time and a LOT of Paul's space?

Please?

Originally posted by kpo

Can we please make this a place of opinions, discussion and learning, not a place of one-line siliness that wastes a LOT of people's time and a LOT of Paul's space?


KPO, I realize that, taken out of context, the last couple posts might seem quite silly to you,but you seemed to overlook the source of our little tirade. Even though the last few posts seem frivolous, they are from experienced professionals (that's Don,Ed,and John)who have given valued advice in other threads. Which makes it an insult of sorts when some "Bassowner" tries to give ill-concieved advice on a subject that they obviously have no experience in, and posing as something they are not. This is irresponsible behavior and deserves to be ridiculed in a Public Forum, if only to give the poster (you know who you are), a well-intentioned reality check.(If you think this little tryst was bad,you should see the stuff that goes on in the Electric forum!)
Realize also that most Bass players are not stuffy, pompous characters who only play 19th century classical music, and
we enjoy a little tweaking once in a while.

[/B][/QUOTE]
""""KPO, I realize that, taken out of context, the last couple posts might seem quite silly to you,but you seemed to overlook the source of our little tirade. Even though the last few posts seem frivolous, they are from experienced professionals (that's Don,Ed,and John)who have given valued advice in other threads.""""

----And they made me very suprised to see that they'd do such a thing. If we're talking about cyber-professionalism, that kind of stuff *cheapens*.
There's no need to defend them either; one can always read the profile and search for other posts by any Talkbass member...

""""Which makes it an insult of sorts when some "Bassowner" tries to give ill-concieved advice on a subject that they obviously have no experience in, and posing as something they are not. This is irresponsible behavior and deserves to be ridiculed in a Public Forum...""""

----It would be much more effective to dispell any disinformation with contrary information and opinions, then perhaps follow up with a *private* email.
Consider the many bass beginers, young and 'not young...' who might only be confused when poor advise is left hanging and only followed by some one-liners that are very much out of context and not in line at all with the thread!
I in fact would not write this here if I didn't think it would help us all and keep us from being as wiley as the electric bass postings are. For all their candor, the EB section contributors generally have a LOT of chaff to sort through for anything worthwhile, and I value the way we usually help each other rather that toot about or babble...

""""Realize also that most Bass players are not stuffy, pompous characters who only play 19th century classical music, and we enjoy a little tweaking once in a while.""""

----One may always tweak privately, and one can always check the "profile" to see who-plays-what-and-from-what-century so that one can see where they're coming from...

[/B][/QUOTE]

[Edited by kpo on 08-25-2000 at 11:43 PM]

kpo: The post that triggered all this was preposterous, and was responded to with well-earned sarcasm. If you can't accept reedo's explanation, so be it. One person's mole hill is another's mountain.
I'm not about to defend myself to you. However, I will point out that if you are concerned about "keeping us from being as wiley as the electric bass postings are", BG person John Turner is the best friend the DB side ever had. You would know that if you'd "search for other posts by any Talkbass member."
If an identical situation comes up again, I hope everyone remains in character. If we're truly that bad, Paul can easily kick us out.

If y'all are curious to see what Paul thinks aboot your getting out of hand, check out what he had to say about the BG bunch in "about Off Topic" and if this is about "Off Topic", consider what y'all look like yappin' nonsense like this in a "technique" thread!
__________________________________________________ _________
__________________________________________________ _________

From Paul:
The Off Topic forum at TalkBass is a place for bassists to hang out and chat about non-bass related material.
However, because this is a public forum, and because TalkBass strives to maintain a certain level of dignity and civility, there are a few ground rules that will be strictly enforced by the moderators.

The #1 rule has got to be respect. If you do not agree with a fellow member, be courteous in your response. If you do not address everyone on the board with respect, be prepared to lose your membership.
Because this forum is viewed by bassists of all ages, all posts must be suitable for viewing by kids, some of whom are under 14 years old. If what you have to say wouldn't be suited for network TV, don't post it here. Controversial topics started for the purpose of creating "mega threads" will be VERY closely moderated (ie, discussions on religion). These kind of threads tend to only inflame people's emotions, creating enemies out of friends.
If you have a disagreement with a moderator (If your thread gets deleted, if you get a warning, etc.), DO NOT take it out on the moderator. Do not even think about publicly complaining about a moderators actions. If you have a problem with a moderator's decisions, email the administration at admin@talkbass.com.
Please use courtesy when using the E-Mail, ICQ, or IM functions of the board. Any complaints of members abusing these messaging functions will result in membership termination.

You're a little late, Smiles. Already read it,understood it,
and agreed with it,but you must have missed the melee' that sparked it,and it wasn't on the DB side.

That was the whole point, that it wasnt' even in a serious thread - and look how your treatin' a potentially serious thread!

Originally posted by miles
That was the whole point, that it wasnt' even in a serious thread - and look how your treatin' a potentially serious thread!
You're missing the point,and I'm not saying that as a backlash, because you are relatively new to this board and
joined in the middle of a somewhat transitional period,and judged everything a bit hastily,IMO.Potentially serious sounds a little too dark and menacing for me, let's say potentially valuable,OK?
So, we have this potentially valuable medium in which to exchange information,ideas, and experiences.Now most of us choose to use it as such, but every now and then, there is someone who comes in and...well, you probably read all that if you looked in some of the older posts,so I won't rehash that, I want to move on from there,to something a little more important.Speaking for myself, and hopefully others on this board,Playing Bass is what I do for a living,and I do
take it quite seriously,which is probably why I am a bit
sensitive about well, poseurs,to put it bluntly,who try to pass off hopelessly misguided anecdotes as sage advice,
But I'm getting off on that damn tangent again,grrr...
Anyway, what I am getting at here is that technique is
More than just how your hands work, it is how your mind and heart work together as well.(How's that for a tie-in?)
If you take too serious of an approach, then that is what you will be,a serious bass technician, playing only the notes on the page, never even
thinking about them,just wanting to get through the piece without messing up.You have to have some understanding of levity so that you can incorporate it in your music, otherwise,as I said it becomes cold and heartless, and where's the fun in that? So we joke around,(sometimes at each other's expense, but to be able to laugh at oneself is also an admirable trait) to remind ourselves that we are human,and fallible.Let me tell you a story (no, I am not being condescending! Listen!) about a friend I had when I
was in college,who was a most excellent bass player, and he studied very hard to become good, but he was so serious about what he was doing, he sort of forgot about the world,
and spent most of his time comparing himself to other players to see if he measured up. Well he did get a position in a major symphony,and once he was there, he realized that there was no place else to go, because he had put the rest of the world aside for so long, he had forgotten how to live, so he blew his brains out.
So my moral here is,(and I hope I haven't bored you too much)That a sense of humor is an integral part of being a true musician, because music encompasses all emotions, good and bad, so don't take yourself so seriously that you fail to see the humor in things, that's all I'm saying.Whew!
Nuff said, Let's move on. Oh, and Miles, could you please take a couple minutes to fill out your profile? One of the interesting things about this forum is meeting people of different backgrounds and experiences, and that is hard to do when their profile has no information, And take a look at John Turner's post, Don't feed the bears, also.Cheers!:)

That's funny, usually it's the most serious folks who understand that music is more than the printed directions, orchestrally speaking, and it's how you come to repect and realize those directions and the music behind them that...
And how do you know I'm new to the list? What happened to the *year* I've been watching you posters and refraining from registering/posting? DON'T FORGET THAT PROBABLY MOST OF TALKBASS' DB AUDIENCE DOES NOT POST, BUT READS AND LEARNS (or whatever) FROM OUR OPINIONS. Don't take our cyber-appearances as personal reality! And write for the WHOLE audience!
I'm sure we all know that when a forum is titled "technique" we mean "how our arms, instruments, equipment and fingers collaborate" rather than "music/interpretation".
So, back to technique questions...
I think it was fingering that folks were discussing. Is anyone aware of any person playing in a USA orchestra using Rabbath fingering styles? Don't know if anyone has gone that far, but I do know that lots of younger players incorporate "four-finger" stuff and wider use of the thumb in orchestral playing these days...?

Originally posted by miles

And how do you know I'm new to the list? What happened to the *year*
So, back to technique questions...
I think it was fingering that folks were discussing. Is anyone aware of any person playing in a USA orchestra using Rabbath fingering styles? Don't know if anyone has gone that far, but I do know that lots of younger players incorporate "four-finger" stuff and wider use of the thumb in orchestral playing these days...?

Well, right under your name, it says "New Memer" and you only have 5 posts, so...for not posting much you sure do have a lot of opinions, too bad they are the only ones you seem to recognize as valid.
Anyway,since some people obviously don't understand, I'll
surrender and move on. 'nuff said.
The Rabbath technique was (probably still is) popular with Solo type players, but from what I've seen, most sections still use pretty much the same fingerings. I do know that in the PSO,for example, The principal usually establishes the fingerings and bowings for the section.

Originally posted by miles

I think it was fingering that folks were discussing. Is anyone aware of any person playing in a USA orchestra using Rabbath fingering styles? Don't know if anyone has gone that far, but I do know that lots of younger players incorporate "four-finger" stuff and wider use of the thumb in orchestral playing these days...?


Hal Robinson, principle bass in the Philadelphia Orchestra, studies with Rabbath. I can't say, though, how much he incorporates in the orchestra stuff.

other comments about left hand technýque?

So what is the answer to the mans question. Sometimes the experts talk about simi-demi-quavers. and who wrote "Seven steps to Heaven". I would to hear everyones opinion even if it might be wrong. Some times even the experts step outside of their narrow field of expertise and say things that could be responded to with humour. Although I continue to respect Ed and Dons posts and have learned from them even though I have played double bass for 50 years.

altugbass: I realize now that you are unable to find/pay for a teacher and are trying to learn on your own. I would recommend you stay with the Simandl technique and forget about Rabbath. David K and kpo gave you the best answers to your original question. As for Rabbth technique, very few orchestra players that I know/see (and that's alot) use Rabbath. By the way, Fred Zimmerman was doing it before Rabbath. You appear to be trying to learn against great odds. Good for you. Good luck.

bassdude: Thanks. Fact is, I consider myself a student for life. You and I have more in common than you might think.

[Edited by Don Higdon on 10-28-2000 at 08:26 PM]

Well Said, Don. As for me, I was brought up on the Simandl
Method and Fred Zimmerman is my patron saint. The Simandl fingerings have always worked well for me, so I stuck with them. There is also the Bille method,and I have to agree, there are not that many Bassists I have seen (and I have seen a lot) That stick with the Rabbath. Most seem to try it for awhile, and then go back to more standard methods.

And I've realized that whenever I am playing something poorly, its usually because I have unconsiously started fingering it "incorrectly" (according to Simandl). For instance - RCs opening line to "So What" - you would think it would be a pretty easy line, but the intonation is so key to it (obviously, since its pretty much a capello) that if you don't finger it correctly, your fingers do all sorts of unintentional little slides and such.

My problem is that the best playing occurs when you are relaxed and learned to the point where you finger correctly unconsciously (which is where I am at on the electric compared to my DB), however I usually have to concentrate really hard to always finger correctly on the DB. I guess patience is the key....

1 finger per fret is how my last teacher taught me,i believe jaco used 1 finger per fret but that was jaco.
if u got long fingers like myself give it a shot.waste not want not in other word's when your fingers are flying all around the place you're wasting energy.so grab yo bass and start at the 3rd fret and go 1-2-3-4,4-3-2-1 ok,the main thing is to relax your whole body not just your hand's.and remember to keep your thumb relaxed.HAVE FUN,CHK BACK WITH ME IN THE BEGINNING OF THE YEAR TO LET ME KNOW HOW U ARE DOING.

Originally posted by starr
1 finger per fret is how my last teacher taught me,i believe jaco used 1 finger per fret but that was jaco.
if u got long fingers like myself give it a shot.waste not want not in other word's when your fingers are flying all around the place you're wasting energy.so grab yo bass and start at the 3rd fret and go 1-2-3-4,4-3-2-1 ok,the main thing is to relax your whole body not just your hand's.and remember to keep your thumb relaxed.HAVE FUN,CHK BACK WITH ME IN THE BEGINNING OF THE YEAR TO LET ME KNOW HOW U ARE DOING.

Are you in the right forum??? The double bass has no frets!

Originally posted by starr
1 finger per fret is how my last teacher taught me,i believe jaco used 1 finger per fret but that was jaco.
if u got long fingers like myself give it a shot.waste not want not in other word's when your fingers are flying all around the place you're wasting energy.so grab yo bass and start at the 3rd fret and go 1-2-3-4,4-3-2-1 ok,the main thing is to relax your whole body not just your hand's.and remember to keep your thumb relaxed.HAVE FUN,CHK BACK WITH ME IN THE BEGINNING OF THE YEAR TO LET ME KNOW HOW U ARE DOING.

Mr Jaco died along time ago.

lermgalieu -- some weeks ago you posted this:

For instance - RCs opening line to "So What" - you would think it would be a pretty easy line, but the intonation is so key to it (obviously, since its pretty much a capello) that if you don't finger it correctly, your fingers do all sorts of unintentional little slides and such.

and it made me curious: Which exactly is the fingering you use when you play this opening line to "So What"?

Stefan

Let me go home and 'finger it out' again (har har har har) and report back to you in the morning. All I know offhand is that I originally fingered it 'wrong', and I didn't realize that was why I was playing it poorly...

thanks,

Lawrence