I'm curious as to what factors, in a 34" scale bass, makes one bass have a stronger B string over another?

I'm curious as to what factors, in a 34" scale bass, makes one bass have a stronger B string over another?

IME it's a combination of a stiff neck and a super secure coupling to the body. To achieve this I use a pair of graphite stiffening bars in the neck running parallel to the trussrod, and threaded steel inserts in the heel. This is in addition to proper wood selection and construction methods

And you can't forget proper location/selection/set-up of the pickups

all the best,

R

Thank you for your reply! :smug:

Would these following things contribute?

Type of bridge?
String through vs. not?
Angle of the head stock?
Distance of the B tuning key from the nut?

Type of bridge?
It's doubtful, unless using something very bad as the bridge.

String through vs. not?
I doubt this one as well. I don't see how string through is any different if the bridge is properly anchored.

Angle of the head stock?
It should be sufficient to provide adequate downforce. Beyond that, it shouldn't affect anything.

Distance of the B tuning key from the nut?

I find it doubtful given the number of basses with great B strings that don't have "extended B string" headstocks. It certainly doesn't affect string tension. I don't know that it affects tone to any significant degree.

A few more:

Structure of the bass, (ie. bolt on vs. neck through)?

Thanks for the helpful information! Now, if a bass has strong support in the neck, the best wood, and quality construction, would you be unsurprised of a 34" scale bass having a BETTER sounding B string than a 35"?

Would a Warmoth Deluxe 5 34" neck coupled to a G5 body have the quality of wood and construction as well as stiffening rods capable of producing a well sounding 34" B string?

Thanks guys! :)

My take is this:
the wood between the bridge and the neck is what makes the difference, not so much the neck attachment method. Neck-thru has hard, stiff neck wood all the way through. Bolt-on has softer more resonant wood in that same location. I expect Bolt-on and set-neck would be similar, but there's the extra mass of the bolt hardware. Ritter claims this makes a big difference, and so uses a billion bolts. http://www.ritter-basses.com/ritter-basses-info/ritter-basses-neck-joint.htm

All things being equal, though, I'd have to say the 35 would be better, as long as the ONLY difference is the scale. Same wood, same neck reinforcements, same body, same pickups, same EVERYTHING.

See Sheldon Dingwall's take on this here:http://www.dingwallguitars.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24&view=previous&sid=84655e9bceef23758e32b719073bdd6a

The contenders:

1.) 35" has Maple neck bolted on to Poplar body, 4 bolts. 1 truss rod.

2.) 34" has Bubinga neck bolted on to Black Limba body, 4 bolts. 1 truss rod, 2 stiffening rods.

Which one would have the potential of having a stronger B string?

Its suprising that nobody has posted quality strings yet. You can take the most well built bass in the world and put turd strings on there the b will sound bad. Also it helps sometimes that if the b is a little sloppy to put a little bigger string on. Thats where neck stiffness really plays a role when you get into adding more tension.

+1 on the strings!

However, heavy strings have a different tone than lighter ones. That's where the extended length comes in. You get the tone of light strings with the tension of heavy strings.

Any response to post #7? Thanks! :)

Any response to post #7? Thanks! :)


given the variences within a specific wood species, differing construction methods, different pickup models, and different strings ...


both have the potential for an outstanding B-string ... and both have the potential to totally suck

all the best,

R

The contenders:

1.) 35" has Maple neck bolted on to Poplar body, 4 bolts. 1 truss rod.

2.) 34" has Bubinga neck bolted on to Black Limba body, 4 bolts. 1 truss rod, 2 stiffening rods.

Which one would have the potential of having a stronger B string?

a 35" scale will have a bigger impact on having a 'tighter' sounding (as opposed to floppy) B string more than anything you could do to a 34" scale instrument other than using a thicker gauge B string. The thicker gauge forces you to use more tension to get the string to pitch, so you basically get the same type of effect that you would get by increasing the scale length.

I think the bridge does make a significant difference - if you have a t-o-m style bridge and lower the stop-bar right down then it makes a significant improvement, to my fingers and ears at least. I also think the string angle over the nut has a major effect.

given the variences within a specific wood species, differing construction methods, different pickup models, and different strings ...


both have the potential for an outstanding B-string ... and both have the potential to totally suck

all the best,

R

My question has been answered!!!! :hyper: . . . . :smug: . . . ;)

Seriously though, . . . I hear what you're saying. Thanks!

glad you got it :)

I said that based on experience playing several Sadowsky 5's with a 34" scale and my Smith CRG5 with 34" scale. All of these have a totally killer B-string that is in no way floppy or lacking. In the case of the Sadowsky, it supposedly does not have graphite stiffening bars. My Smith does. And there are many 34" scale 5's where the B just isn't worth more than a thumb rest.

I have also played several high end 35" scale 5's where the B-string left me wanting a MIM 5er. I own several 35" scale 5's with outstanding B-strings.

Based on my personal experiences with the 34" Sadowsky and Smith 5's, I know it is entirely possible to build a killer B-string in a 34" scale. I know from my own personal building efforts that it's possible to build a 34" scale killer B bass.

It's all about materials selection (wood, electronics, hardware, strings, etc ...) and building techniques. But even with the best materials and techniques, you're still going to build a dud every now and then - wood is not uniform, and unseen internal surprises can turn what looks to be stellar into something that is just OK sonically


all the best,

R

Okay, . . . here's the reason for this thread. I'm considering assembling a Warmoth 5 string bass using a Black Korina body (the G5 body) and a Bubinga neck with Ziricote fingerboard (the neck with 3 above and 2 below). Hipshot bridge and Gotoh tuners. This would be a 34" scale setup and I am hoping for a good sounding B string. Pickup would be a single MM 5 string Bartolini and Bartolini preamp. I'd use a Tung Oil finish on it.

What do you think?

Any thoughts, or is this still not enough information to make a good guess?

If you could also give an opinion of what kind of tone one could expect with the woods I'm considering, that would be great.

Thanks.

I've heard the same as other have said a good stiff neck is key to good B-string. Also have heard that some are compromising and using a 34.5" scale with good results. You get the good B-string sound, but scale isn't that much bigger for people with small hands.

I just got a used Zon with the carbon fiber neck and that is the best sounding B-string I have ever heard. Every note is very defined, punchy, and fat round tone. My first non-wood neck so I'm assuming the carbon fiber is main reason the B-string is so nice.

Any comments on posts #16 and #18? :hmm:

Thank you! :)

If you could also give an opinion of what kind of tone one could expect with the woods I'm considering, that would be great.

Thanks.

I don't think that anyone can give an opinion of the tone of the bass that will be accurate due to anything other than coincidence. I think that the Warmoth you've suggested has a good choice of woods. The neck will be quite stiff but on the heavy side. IMO the woods should be chosen primarily based on stability and at least for necks strength followed by aesthetics.

Thanks for the comment. There is a very nice Black Korina body with Black Korina top at Warmoth that I'm hoping will make a nice body. With a Bubinga 34" neck and Ziricote fingerboard, I'm hoping for something that will be warmer than my Poplar body, Maple neck Peavey.

As far as what sort of finish, . . . I'm trying to decide between a spray on polyurethane, or a Tung oil finish. I'd like to use the Tung oil, for ease of application. If I use the rubbed Tung oil, how long would it take to not come off on my clothes (or rather cause a discoloration on my clothes from the oil)?

I doubt this one as well. I don't see how string through is any different if the bridge is properly anchored.


It should be sufficient to provide adequate downforce. Beyond that, it shouldn't affect anything.



I find it doubtful given the number of basses with great B strings that don't have "extended B string" headstocks. It certainly doesn't affect string tension. I don't know that it affects tone to any significant degree.

I agree with this. I think the important part is to have enough break angle at the nut (and bridge) to make good solid contact (on all strings but more so on the B).
I have just put on a string retainer on my B string (I could pop it out easily, but it did not buzz) and it made it sound tighter. My bass doesn't have a tilted headstock which might do the same thing. Just something to ponder

Thanks for the comment. There is a very nice Black Korina body with Black Korina top at Warmoth that I'm hoping will make a nice body. With a Bubinga 34" neck and Ziricote fingerboard, I'm hoping for something that will be warmer than my Poplar body, Maple neck Peavey.

As far as what sort of finish, . . . I'm trying to decide between a spray on polyurethane, or a Tung oil finish. I'd like to use the Tung oil, for ease of application. If I use the rubbed Tung oil, how long would it take to not come off on my clothes (or rather cause a discoloration on my clothes from the oil)?

What kind of vibe are you going for? Like Geoff said, no one can say with certainly what kind of results you'll get with the choices you've made. For instance I don't think I've ever played a Bubinga neck. Everything you mentioned is going to factor into the end result. I've owned a few basses with Black Limba bodies and while the wood looks nice, it never really floated my boat... and that obviously is no inidication of whether or not it might float yours:D

I guess one of my main issues is that I've seen a bunch of great looking (because of wood choices) basses that were sonically disappointing.

Is this mainly for fingerstyle? Figured out where you're going to put the pickup? Getting it in the right spot can be critical.

As far as flop, I guess I'm on the other side of that fence:D. Not only do I rarely experience it, my personal basses, regardless of brand are typically strung with either .120 or .125 B strings and they get from very good to excellent results. I used to think bigger was better but I came to see where that wasn't true for me. I also don't think you have or need to go to a 35" scale to get a great B.

What kind of vibe are you going for? Like Geoff said, no one can say with certainly what kind of results you'll get with the choices you've made. For instance I don't think I've ever played a Bubinga neck. Everything you mentioned is going to factor into the end result. I've owned a few basses with Black Limba bodies and while the wood looks nice, it never really floated my boat... and that obviously is no inidication of whether or not it might float yours:D

I guess one of my main issues is that I've seen a bunch of great looking (because of wood choices) basses that were sonically disappointing.[QUOTE]

Really, for me, looks aren't nearly as important as tonality of wood selection. Also, I decided that I'd go with a Wenge neck rather than the Bubinga. The vibe I like is that jazz look. . . the satin finish on nice looking woods. But the main thing is tone. Now, on the Black Limba body, the one I'm looking at, from Warmoth, is a G5 body that has a Black Limba laminate top that will allow it to have a more even look. I agree that Black Limba often has a lot of mis-balanced grain structures and colors.


[QUOTE=Brad Johnson]Is this mainly for fingerstyle? Figured out where you're going to put the pickup? Getting it in the right spot can be critical.

Definitely fingerstyle. I don't do slapping much at all. I mostly play at a church, so. . . . . . . not a lot of opportunity to "Victor Wooten" up a song there. ;) As far as pickup location, Warmoth has an option for the single Music Man pickup that they state is "in the sweet spot". Other than that, I wouldn't really have much better luck, . . .and that would be what it was, luck, if my placement location produced the best sound.

As far as flop, I guess I'm on the other side of that fence:D. Not only do I rarely experience it, my personal basses, regardless of brand are typically strung with either .120 or .125 B strings and they get from very good to excellent results. I used to think bigger was better but I came to see where that wasn't true for me. I also don't think you have or need to go to a 35" scale to get a great B.

I'm hoping to have a good sounding B string with the 34" scale setup I'm wanting to go for. To have my left hand a little closer to my body, when playing, will allow me to feel more comfortable.