...to hate Jaco Pastorius?

I can't stand his music and I don't really see what the big deal was aside from him basically inventing fretless electric bass. Listening to his stuff from Weather Report I feel as if I'm bored to tears.

I understand he influenced a lot of people, but he basically a glorified jazz fusion player who was pompous enough to claim he was the greatest bassist of all time.

I can safely say I'm not influenced by him, and I don't think any of my influences can cite being influenced by him because I dig more of the old school players like Willie Dixon etc...

Does anyone think there is a better player than Jaco? I think I can name a couple.


**Please note this is not a flame or an attempt at trolling, its just my opinion and I'm trying to see if I'm alone or not.

What is your opinion of Edgar Meyer?

Everything is overrated.

The best bass players in the world are most likely not famous in any way.

I never heard of Edgar Meyer, got any recommended listening?

I don't feel that it's a good thing to "hate" anyone!

There are many excellent bassplayers in the world. It is unrealistic to believe that everyone will like (or dislike) a particular player.

I also think that it doesn't benefit us as musicians to catgorically reject a style of music or specific players. Because I believe that there are valuable insights into our instrument that we would be denying ourselves if we do.

If you have really listened to a particular player and found nothing of value to yourself, then by all means move on. But there is no reason to "hate" or denigrate that player.


After all, it's all just vibrations in the air. :)

Edgar Meyer & Bela Fleck - Music for Two.

Amazing stuff!

I too agree that the best players in the world are probably unknowns out there banging away.

I'm a huge Jaco fan, but I know exactly how you feel. I don't get what the big deal is about Jimi Hendrix.

I think, in both cases, it is important to try and remember the context in which they made their musical statements. When Jaco dropped his solo album in 1976, no one had ever done anything like "Donna Lee" on a bass before. And "Portrait of Tracy"? Far beyond what anyone else was doing. Now, are there guys today who are doing things that are way beyond those examples? Absolutely. But there is something to be said for being first, for seeing your instrument in a way no one else ever has. So, while I continue to change the station every time a Hendrix tune comes on, I absolutely respect his contribution.

Does anyone think there is a better player than Jaco? I think I can name a couple.

We're a bit overdue for one of these threads, aren't we?

How do you measure if someone is a better player than another? Speed? More notes? Slapping? There is not a registry containing the ranking of all the bass players in the world.

According to your profile, it looks like you prefer more Rock-style players. Nothing wrong with that, but as you get older, you might want to at least develop an appreciation for other styles of music. I eat, breathe and sleep Jazz. I don't listen to Death Metal, but I recognize Alex Webster and Steve DiGiorgio as talented players and respect what they do.

The first time I heard Jaco, I thought he had a lot of chops but didn't understand what was going on in the music. I put the album away for a few years and then went back to it. It really spoke to me.

To this day, I don't understand what people see in The Grateful Dead, but I try to listen to them once a year to see if there's something I'm missing (BTW, haven't found it yet;) ).

IMO, i can enjoy jaco with Weather Raport.

but, my general opinions of all out solo bassist irritates me as hell, im pretty sure its not anything with their music, more the fact that everybody and their mother try half assed attempts on their songs, yet fail to make a good bassline.

Have you heard Pat Methenys "Bright Size Life" or the Joni Mitchell stuff with Jaco, like "Shadows and Light"? I think these are his best recordings, besides his solo stuff.

The thing to remember is there was bass before Jaco, and bass after Jaco. For better or for worse. Most guys nowadays don't even realize they are influenced by him. It has become part of the bass vocabulary.

To this day, I don't understand what people see in The Grateful Dead, but I try to listen to them once a year to see if there's something I'm missing (BTW, haven't found it yet;) ).

Im with ya. Ive had numerous friends on different occasions show me many different songs by them...it just never clicks. And I feel that i have an eclectic choice in music, everything from Bach to Tool, Beatles to Psyopus, Jaco to Squarepusher.

Anyway, back to the original question...Do what you feel. I "hate" plenty of people. no problem, its not like im making any actions toward them. But i still give them a chance before i make any decision. And if i dont like what they do, i normally find something i can respect them for. Sixty percent of the time, it works everytime.
I love listening to Jaco. and despite what I have read on TB over and over, I LOOOVE his tone.

Its music! Don't let anyone make you do something you don't want to. If you don't like Jaco thats cool, I like his tunes but I can't stand to listen to them forever. Do what you like, play the bass you like, listen to what you like, and don't let anyone tell you otherwise.

I feel music is a freedom of expression that is supposed to be fun, if listening to Jaco isn't fun for you then don't do it!

if you dont like it you dont like it. who is going to argue with you on that one?

How come we never see threads of people expressing a dislike for McCartney or Jamerson? Why is it always jaco!

I'm a huge Jaco fan, but I know exactly how you feel. I don't get what the big deal is about Jimi Hendrix.

I think, in both cases, it is important to try and remember the context in which they made their musical statements. When Jaco dropped his solo album in 1976, no one had ever done anything like "Donna Lee" on a bass before. And "Portrait of Tracy"? Far beyond what anyone else was doing. Now, are there guys today who are doing things that are way beyond those examples? Absolutely. But there is something to be said for being first, for seeing your instrument in a way no one else ever has. So, while I continue to change the station every time a Hendrix tune comes on, I absolutely respect his contribution.

This says it perfectly. Neither do anything for me... but the first time I ever heard Cliff Burton's Anethesia, my jaw dropped, it changed my life.

How come we never see threads of people expressing a dislike for McCartney or Jamerson? Why is it always jaco!

because jaco was fusion.

and fusion is a love or hate thing

'Hate' is one heck of a word to throw about so casually - especially when directed towards a person - and one you've never met....

Just because you don't care for fusion, you're going to hate the dude?

Most guys nowadays don't even realize they are influenced by him. It has become part of the bass vocabulary.
TBH it's very arrogant to say that.
I can safely say that I am not in any way inspired or influenced by Jaco, and by your statement I'm actually a bit offended (if only just a teeny tiny bit).

Imagine a Christian walking into a mosque and going all "Hey guys. I just dropped in to say that your belief is wrong, and christianity is superior. You just haven't realised it yet."
Do you see what I'm trying to get across?

I understand that Jaco brought bass out there to the public, and I acknowledge that he was a great player. He just hasn't done anything for me.

I agree 100% with your statement that there was bass both before and after Jaco.

As for disliking Paul McCartney... well sign me up. I hate him.

...to hate Jaco Pastorius?

I can't stand his music and I don't really see what the big deal was aside from him basically inventing fretless electric bass. Listening to his stuff from Weather Report I feel as if I'm bored to tears.

I understand he influenced a lot of people, but he basically a glorified jazz fusion player who was pompous enough to claim he was the greatest bassist of all time.

I can safely say I'm not influenced by him, and I don't think any of my influences can cite being influenced by him because I dig more of the old school players like Willie Dixon etc...

Does anyone think there is a better player than Jaco? I think I can name a couple.


**Please note this is not a flame or an attempt at trolling, its just my opinion and I'm trying to see if I'm alone or not.


AMEN BROTHER, I'M RIGHT THERE WITH YA!!!!! however, how does anyone measure whos better than who. i'm just one of these people who feels that it is impossible to rate any art form especially music. to me, i cant stand jaco. i think rick price [georgia satellites] is the greatest bassist ever, because he made me want to become a bassist. but to the thousands of people out there who dont tknow who he is, this statement means nothing. i think that kyle henderson would rate in at #2, but then..........
i agree with the jaco comment however. are there "better players" out there? who knows. maybe you are!!!!! maybe i am!!!!

[Is it wrong]...to hate Jaco Pastorius?



Nah. I don't like him either and I'm always right. :D

It can just feel "wrong" sometimes when so many people are glorifying someone you don't agree with. And, if someone is that great to alot of people, why shouldn't they talk about it? Just ignore it.

Imagine a Christian walking into a mosque and going all "Hey guys. I just dropped in to say that your belief is wrong, and christianity is superior. You just haven't realised it yet."
Do you see what I'm trying to get across?

you wanna know the funny thing, well not really funny. the old owner of my cd shop, became a born again christian and used to have screaming fits because i'm an athiest.

he bassically said what you said to a customer who is an orthadox jewish rabi. havent seen the customer since.

hand on my mothers grave that it happened!!1

Ditto on the Paul McCartney thing-overrated. As far as Jaco is concerned, I admire his skills and abilities, but I am in no way influenced by him at all. I agree with 905-it is very arrogant to say that we all are influenced by Jaco.

If you use harmonics when you play you are influenced by Jaco, period.
Just because you don't get it that doesn't mean it sucks, and to say you hate somebody you've never met... :eyebrow:
You're not wrong, it's just over your head and you don't know yet.
IMO of course. ;)

If you use harmonics when you play you are influenced by Jaco, period.
Just because you don't get it that doesn't mean it sucks, and to say you hate somebody you've never met... :eyebrow:
You're not wrong, it's just over your head and you don't know yet.
IMO of course. ;)

thats a joke right?

i was using harmonics before i had ever heard of jaco

Man, hate is a pretty strong word for a artist you don't care for! I see Paul McCartney got pulled into this thread too, lot of haters out there.........sigh..........

...to hate Jaco Pastorius?

I can't stand his music and I don't really see what the big deal was aside from him basically inventing fretless electric bass. Listening to his stuff from Weather Report I feel as if I'm bored to tears.

I understand he influenced a lot of people, but he basically a glorified jazz fusion player who was pompous enough to claim he was the greatest bassist of all time.

I can safely say I'm not influenced by him, and I don't think any of my influences can cite being influenced by him because I dig more of the old school players like Willie Dixon etc...

Does anyone think there is a better player than Jaco? I think I can name a couple.


**Please note this is not a flame or an attempt at trolling, its just my opinion and I'm trying to see if I'm alone or not.

When you grow up you will understand.

HI

Hate? Why? Did you know him personally? Did wrong to you or your family?

Do you just hate his persona? I dont get it

There are plenty of famous people that Im not interested in. Doesnt mean I hate them. Doesnt mean Im gonna rant or try to talk of others who are "better"

Jaco was Jaco. Ultra talented, unique, a personality. His playing was remarkable, like it or not.

Dont hate the player, hate the game!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Rob

thats a joke right?

i was using harmonics before i had ever heard of jaco

Thats the whole point. Jaco's impact on bass playing was such that even if you have never heard his playing, you've been influenced by someone who was influenced by someone who was influenced by Jaco. The harmonics example is perfect, because after Jaco it spread like wildfire. Kind of like anyone who plays slap bass is influenced by Larry Graham, even if they've never heard Larry Graham.

edit: Just checked your profile, and you play a fretless Fender Jazz. You can't deny the Jaco influence there.

The problem lies in that when a lot of people put someone up high on a pedestal, there are going to be another crowd of people who don't understand why because they don't see what is/was so great about them.

People accept that Jamerson was the original Motown bass dude, just like Leo Fender set the benchmark for electric bass. Paul McCartney doesn't do it for me either.

I have been fortunate to listen to a lot of great bands but at the end of the day, a band can have the best musician's in the world but if you don't like the tunes then you are not going to listen to them.

I think that this is one of the problems here. I really don't like this style of music and I've tried on several occasions to listen to it.

I totally disagree with the harmonic thing. I discovered this by accident when I began learning. I put my finger over one of the strings to stop it ringing out and it made a sound. I hadn't heard of Jaco until I was 17 and I don't know of any bass players that I have listened to that use this technique

Anyway, I've wasted enough time here. I'm off to have a look at other threads where I might actually learn something.

Until the next "xxxx is rubbish, yyyy is the best" thread, Au revoir

http://img441.imageshack.us/img441/6756/drunkck1.jpg

Imagine a Christian walking into a mosque and going all "Hey guys. I just dropped in to say that your belief is wrong, and christianity is superior. You just haven't realised it yet."


When you grow up you will understand.


:ninja:

Thats the whole point. Jaco's impact on bass playing was such that even if you have never heard his playing, you've been influenced by someone who was influenced by someone who was influenced by Jaco. The harmonics example is perfect, because after Jaco it spread like wildfire. Kind of like anyone who plays slap bass is influenced by Larry Graham, even if they've never heard Larry Graham.

edit: Just checked your profile, and you play a fretless Fender Jazz. You can't deny the Jaco influence there.

sorry, but i wanted a fretless with a simmilar neck to my geddy lee fender jazz.

and the harmonic argument is terrible, its like saying if you play with a pick you must be influenced with whoever did that first.

Someone doesn't have to be influenced by Jaco in any way to play a fretless jazz, they're readily available in stores and people have been playing stringed instruments without frets for hundreds of years before Jaco. Obviously companies that produce fretless bass guitars do so originally because Jaco popularised the variation on the instrument, but that has no bearing on the individual person buying the instrument.

Now, in the specific case of BellBottomBlues, you are influenced by Jaco, even if you don't know it. After all, you have an opinion formed about him and his playing,

I'd hardly call what you've said about Jaco hate, just indifference.

Since when was it wrong to have a difference of opinion about music?

TBH it's very arrogant to say that.
I can safely say that I am not in any way inspired or influenced by Jaco, and by your statement I'm actually a bit offended (if only just a teeny tiny bit).


To be influenced doesn't mean to copy someone or to even like them. I have been influenced by countless players as to what I don't want to sound like. Plus, there are a lot of players that did listen to his playing, probably some players who you do like. Influence still stands, only indirectly.

With Jaco, it is almost the same as with Jimi Hendrix, only on a smaller level. Today, 40 years later, it is almost impossible to find a modern guitar player that is not influenced by Hendrix; one way or the other, even if they never heard the guy.

P.S.-don't be offended so easy, it's only a bass forum.

If you use harmonics when you play you are influenced by Jaco


In a lot of cases that's not true at all and not to take anything away from Jaco he was not the first Bassist to use harmonics,he got the idea to use harmonics from watching a local Bassist (in Florida) use harmonics and tune his bass by using harmonics.

i think the whole influenced by influence is a load of garbage.

i like alot of bassplayers who were influenced by jaco pastorius. i try to sound simmilar to them, not him.

In a lot of cases that's not true at all and not to take anything away from Jaco he was not the first Bassist to use harmonics,he got the idea to use harmonics from watching a local Bassist (in Florida) use harmonics and tune his bass by using harmonics.

I agree. I hate to bring a guitarist into this, but Eddie Van Halen is undoubtedly the father of tapping, but even HE will say that he wasn't the first to do it, but that doesn't stop people from still saying he was first. He was the first to make a big thing with it.

I had never heard the name of Jaco until I was well into my 20's, I don't like jazz at all, why would I?

I was a metalhead through and through. When I was 17 in 1991 I heard a guitar player make a sound, a pinch harmonic and I said to myself "I want to do that!" So I asked him how he did it, and he graciously demonstrated it to me backstage after his concert (Thank you Dimebag R.I.P. :bawl:).

I learned how to do pinch harmonics first on a guitar (I didn't play guitar, but that is how I learned) then I went home and practised on my bass until I knew how to do it on bass too. Later on I used a pick less and less, so I needed to learn how to do pinch harmonics without one. I figured it out on my own just fine. Nobody taught me, I had to figure it out for myself. Alot of people told me that you can't do pinch harmonics on a bass, it made it a challenge to prove them wrong.

Jaco had NO influence on me whatsoever. I don't know it to be fact, but I honestly doubt that Jaco influenced Dimebag Darrel to do pinch harmonics either. And even if he did, that doesn't mean that Jaco influenced me, it still means Dimebag did.

If you want to use the argument that because your influences influences influences influences did it first, so therefore YOU are DIRECTLY influenced by them, well, that's jsut plain narrow minded. To say that is to say that we are all directly related because if you trace evolution back far enough...

[/rant]

How come we never see threads of people expressing a dislike for McCartney or Jamerson? Why is it always jaco!


Because Jaco was playing Jazz and "difficult" music - not 3 minute pop songs that are easy to "get"!

Jaco was holding his own with two of Jazz's foremost composers at the time - but that kind of music requires work on the part of the listener and certain amount of knowledge about what the artists were trying to do - to fully appreciate it!

So - the Beatles and Motown were "immediate" types of music - meant to be catchy and picked up staight away by anyone!

Whereas Weather Report were coming from a long tradition of Jazz and electronic experiments lead by Miles etc etc
It wasn't meant to be catchy pop songs - it's a different kind of music that most people will not have the ears to get.

But if you are committed to music and are prepared to work a bit, then this kind of thing can be much more satisfying in the long run...:)

But I have no doubt that a lot of the instant hit, internet gratification generation won't get it and won't try....:hmm:

If one feels that their influenced by Jaco indirectly simply because who they may be influenced by was/is influenced by Jaco then they may as well say that their also influenced by Jerry Jemmont and Rocco Prestia since Jaco was so heavily influenced by them.



One can respect and recognize a gifted talent and not be influenced by that talent.

Oh, and my desire to play fretless initially stems from hearing what can be done with it from a fellow local metalhead who played one in a metal band.

I little later on, before I dared buy a fretless for myself, but discovered I liked it alot by jamming on his (by this point we were good friends) I heard Pearl Jam's Ten album, and the song "Black." That sealed the deal, I had to have one.

I don't doubt Jeff Ament is a fan of Jaco, but I don't care, Ament's playing affected me to want one, it had and still has nothing to do with Jaco.

I will never diss Jaco's playing or contributions, but I have ZERO interest in listening to him, it just doesn't do it for me.

Back then I bought an Ibanez Soundgear fretless and used it in my metal band and had a great time with it.

Now I am after a fretless again, because I want to explore that side of my playing some more. I want it to be a Jazz, and it has NOTHING to do with Jaco and EVERYTHING to do with the fact that I have just discovered Jazz basses suit my feel, style, and tone.

One can respect and recognize a gifted talent and not be influenced by that talent.

That's me in a nutshell.

The first time I ever saw or heard of Jaco, I stumbled across his performance on TV, it was the Montreal Jazzfest. He did some solo over top of a riff he laid down with a delay pedal. Very cool, impressed the hell out of me.

Before the end of the song, I turned the channel, it was boring me already. It's just not my music style, I can't sit there and listen to it.

This is my theory: anything and everything you hear is an influence in some way. You don't have to enjoy it in the least, but it will affect your style and voice, even "negatively"; that being, you can choose to voice yourself UNLIKE that person/player or not use techniques as they do.

About 5 or 6 months after I started playing bass I wanted to get rid of the frets(at the time I didn't know what they were called),at the time I didn't know what a fretless Bass was or had I ever heard of one and I remember I would often say that I want a Bass with out these mettle things on it(the bass was a early 70's Fender J),because I felt they were restricting how I wanted to express myself so I took the frets out(not the J bass but a cheap bass)and then later I was told about the very talented Jaco Pastorius who was playing a fretless.

was I influenced by Jaco ? no but there were moments when I was inspired by him.

How come we never see threads of people expressing a dislike for McCartney or Jamerson? Why is it always jaco!
I <3 Jamerson but I hate McCartney. I hate all the beatles except for George Harrison.

If you use harmonics when you play you are influenced by Jaco, period.


Jaco did not invent harmonics. My dad has been playing with harmonics since the early 60s, so that must mean Jaco was influenced by him no? Its like saying Flea invented Slap.

------------------------------
As for when I said hate, it was a figure of speech. And I happen to like jazz very much, and I still think Jaco's music is boring.

How come we never see threads of people expressing a dislike for McCartney or Jamerson? Why is it always jaco!

I'm happy to start a McCartney bashing thread. I think that guy is VERY overrated :hiding:

Lets do it!:hyper: :hyper: :hyper:

was I influenced by Jaco ? no...
LOL pretty funny, coming from a guy whose username is Jauqo! :D

LOL pretty funny, coming from a guy whose username is Jauqo! :D


Jauqo is my name not my user name.

if you listen to my Bass playing you will not hear Jaco in my playing.

Jauqo is your real name? That's unusual. BTW, on a related topic, doing a 411.com search, I couldn't find anyone with the last name III-X in Chicago. You must be unlisted.

doing a 411.com search, I couldn't find anyone with the last name III-X in Chicago. You must be unlisted.

I am.

Wow, next you're going to tell me that's not you in your avatar!

Wow, next you're going to tell me that's not you in your avatar!

No not at all,that is me in my avatar.

you know, I dig who Jaco is and I've heard him do some amazing stuff. I liked his later alblums with Weather Report, but the first few he did were waaayyy to random for me. It wasn't until Mysterious Traveler that i really started liking him. Then Heavy Weather came out. Boy, that one totally blew me away .

you know, I dig who Jaco is and I've heard him do some amazing stuff. I liked his later alblums with Weather Report, but the first few he did were waaayyy to random for me. It wasn't until Mysterious Traveler that i really started liking him. Then Heavy Weather came out. Boy, that one totally blew me away .

Mysterious Traveler is probably my favorite Weather Report album, but Jaco's not on it. It's Alphonso Johnson and Miroslav Vitous on bass.....mostly Alphonso.

oh... didn't know that.

No not at all,that is me in my avatar.
Wow, you're one hot babe!

Mysterious Traveler is probably my favorite Weather Report album, but Jaco's not on it. It's Alphonso Johnson and Miroslav Vitous on bass.....mostly Alphonso.

I wasn't a Weather Report fan. The resident Jazzbo from HS had played me the Chick Corea solo improv albums, Coltrane from Impulse years, and Weather Report I sing the body electric. I thought if that's Jazz its not for me. Later I was hanging at a session another friend was engineering the Wayne Shorter was producing. Wayne said he couldn't work the next night Weather Report was playing in town and gave all of us tickets. That was an amazing experinece hearing Weather Report live their music live made sense to me. Also they were doing newer material that was funky as can be. Alphonso Johnson was playing bass with them then. I've been a Weather Report fan ever since.

Then Jaco with Weather Report is great, I was just listening to the 8:30 CD. I remember hearing of Jaco in the 60's from a guy who used to play in Wayne Cochrane's band. I heard Wayne and CC Ryders and a Jaco fan ever since.

No, it's not wrong. Everybody has their own taste in music and I've found that the same song can be played by many different groups and I like the song because of a specific group that did their version. It's all in the "tamber" of the presentation. I can probably name a half dozen tunes that the Beatles did that I loved WAY before hearing the originals and it's just because of the sound the Beatles had that makes the tune happen for me that I like it.

The thing about music is that it reaches the "soul". Call it whatever you want, but it effects everyone differently, and it's that difference that makes ever song and person unique.

Listen to what you love, and love what moves you. Don't let others dictate your music!!!

Have you heard Pat Methenys "Bright Size Life"

check that song out. it's one of my all-time favorites in any genre. "Soul Intro/The Chicken" is pretty sweet, too. That stuff is more mainstream and a lot easier to appreciate.

Also, I hate to sound philosophical here, but everyone is influenced by Jaco. Even if you've never heard of him before, or don't like his music, you were influenced by someone who was influenced by him. To say you're not is like a physicist saying he wasn't influenced by Isaac Newton. Before Jaco, the electric bass was just a groove instrument. He brought it out of the background and made it a lead instrument. He also single-handedly gave the electric bass some real jazz credit. And don't forget about the harmonics. I'm not saying you have to love him. I don't. But you should know your roots.

I'm influenced by those players who play only the root in 8th notes with a pick, because I try not to do that.

Wow, you're one hot babe!

Thank you and why did you have to go and make me blush.



Also, I hate to sound philosophical here, but everyone is influenced by Jaco. Even if you've never heard of him before, or don't like his music

That's impossible to be true.

If that's the case then the same can be said of James Jamerson,Chuck Rainey,Joe Osbourne,Monk Montgomery or Rocco Prestia.

and it was Monk Montgomery who gave the electric bass some real jazz credit(and that was in the 50's).

Well, if you don't like Jazz, it's maybe understandable you don't hook onto Jaco. For 24 years I believed that Stanley Clarke was the greatest bass player who ever lived until I started istening to Jaco. Now I believe Stanley is only the second! What's so great about Jaco? Timing, technique, style, invention, speed of fingers, what he actually plays (most of which is effortless) etc etc. Above all he is a man at one with his instrument.
Don't forget how bass people were playing in the late 70s when Jaco and Stanley came along. They started doing stuff no-one had heard the like of before. They pushed the bass forward as a lead instrument. Lots of imitators can play like them now but at the time they were unique.
Watch that DVD of Jaco at the Monteal Jazz Festival. If you don't like jazz you probably won't watch more than 5 minutes. Most of my music DVDs get watched once then stacked on the shelf. This one I have watched over and over and over again. This sextet of musicians are guys at the top of the tree and so in tune with each other and it's Jaco at his best.

Pastorius was the Paganini of the electric bass.

If that's the case then the same can be said of James Jamerson,Chuck Rainey,Joe Osbourne,Monk Montgomery or Rocco Prestia.


You get it! Everyone is influenced by those who came first, even if only on a small level. The same can be said for each of those players you mentioned.

Exactly,even tho Chuck Rainey is heavily influential in his own right he was also very influenced by James Jamerson to the degree that he once told me that there would be no Chuck Rainey if there was no James Jamerson.

thats a joke right?

i was using harmonics before i had ever heard of jaco

easy dude,in relation to what rano bass said,you say u used harmonics before jaco.but harmonics are all influenced by jaco.u may not have got them directly from jaco work but if u follow it back u get to jaco.take it easy.

easy dude,in relation to what rano bass said,you say u used harmonics before jaco.but harmonics are all influenced by jaco.u may not have got them directly from jaco work but if u follow it back u get to jaco.take it easy.

Harmonics have been around for centuries (at least over a century), so it's perfectly possible that the influence was from somewhere else.

Jaco started playing bass when he was 15, which puts him playing bass at 1966. Now lets assume he started playing harmonics the day he started playing bass.

I have recordings of my father from 1965 playing with harmonics (he used to own a recording studio)

So by that logic my father, who never met Mr. Pastorius, must have heavily influenced him. Thats total bull, and anyone who says Jaco invented harmonics deserves to be shot.

Wow, you're one hot babe!
Thank you and why did you have to go and make me blush.

Bastard beat me to it. I should stay on top of my own threads...

As for Jaco influencing everything I do, because obviously he must be a bass god is also retarded. Look at my profile, none of those guys were in their musical peak (for the most part) when Jaco released his first album.

Lead bass lines were old news even before Jaco. Check out Jack Bruce in the 60s with Cream.

And if I decide that I hate him and don't want to sound a thing like him, then I'm still influenced by him? Obviously Peter Wentz must be a HUGE influence on me then huh?

Jacquo, you're a dude lol

yeah, jaco didnt start lead basslines. anyone ever heard of a little band called The Who?

Jaco started playing bass when he was 15, which puts him playing bass at 1966. Now lets assume he started playing harmonics the day he started playing bass.

I have recordings of my father from 1965 playing with harmonics (he used to own a recording studio)

So by that logic my father, who never met Mr. Pastorius, must have heavily influenced him. Thats total bull, and anyone who says Jaco invented harmonics deserves to be shot.




Bastard beat me to it. I should stay on top of my own threads...

As for Jaco influencing everything I do, because obviously he must be a bass god is also retarded. Look at my profile, none of those guys were in their musical peak (for the most part) when Jaco released his first album.

Lead bass lines were old news even before Jaco. Check out Jack Bruce in the 60s with Cream.

And if I decide that I hate him and don't want to sound a thing like him, then I'm still influenced by him? Obviously Peter Wentz must be a HUGE influence on me then huh?

You're one big angry dude.

Harmonics have been around for centuries (at least over a century), so it's perfectly possible that the influence was from somewhere else.

Can somebody point me to where i said Jaco invented harmonics? I know he didn't, and i know he saw somebody doing that BUT, he was the first to compose melodies with harmonics on the bass guitar, Portrait of Tracy does not sound like somebody tuning with harmonics, it's a beautiful song written with a technique never heard on the bass guitar.
Just like if you play guitar and use tapping, Eddie Van Halen might have not invented it but he influenced everyone to experiment with it and create intros and songs with it.
Also Jaco didn't invented fretless basses but he made made the style popular, and was a big factor in the design of production made fretless basses because nobody constructed them like that before Jaco.

'Hate' is one heck of a word to throw about so casually - especially when directed towards a person - and one you've never met....

Just because you don't care for fusion, you're going to hate the dude?
I absolutly agree..personally, im open to almost all styles of music (Emo in the morning, Jazz at night) but lets be honest. You never met him. Hate on Jazz all you want...I get it at school all the time...but a person...lets step back and think about that one.
:)

No not at all,that is me in my avatar.Wow, I seriously thought it was Rana Ross (RIP).

Is it wrong...to hate Jaco Pastorius?Yes.

Print out your question, and then take a look at it in ten years. I predict that you will most surely have changed your mind by then, that is if you are even still trying to learn bass ten years from now.

Didn't your dad teach you that you shouldn't hate people? Have you asked him this question?

It's not wrong...just kind of ignorant. ;)

Every player and every style ain't going to appeal to everyone. If you don't like that style of playing or gendre of music, nothing wrong that...but you don't need to diss it.

There are several cats that the majority of folks on these boards think are terrific who do nothing for me...but music is about communication, so if something speaks to a lot of people there must be something good about it. That's why I don't bother posting any negative stuff about anybody...ultimately what purpose does it serve? ;)

Jamerson > Jaco.

IMO anyway, Jamerson was much more musical - not to mention his ability to create lines on the spot, just by feel with only 1 finger :smug:

Ok, I Know i posted here a short while ago, but i found some other stuff i want to touch on...
Obviously Peter Wentz must be a HUGE influence on me then huh?
1. Whats with all the hatin!...:cool: ...Am i alone in thinking that "emo bassists" shouldnt be the butt of every so-called "joke" around here!?!?!

Frankly, I'm tired of it. Maybe people would change their minds if everybody started slamming other genres players...CONSTANTLY...and then we all got the idea....hmm...

2. Hating Jaco isnt a bad thing, but from the sound of it maybe you havent listened to enough of him. To be frank, moving outside your comfort zone can take time and patience...both of which are also good to have heaps of as a bass player.
3. I can understand your dislike for a genre not your own, but shouldnt you at least be open to understanding why people consider Jaco a "bass God"...?While people may have been playing harmonics before him, can we give him credit for bringing that stuff into the mainstream? And before you sling some 50's album at me that states the conterary, lets face it...Everybody should at least give him some respect for having a part in it.
4. And as for your slam on Weather Report...Try to learn a Jaco line or two from ANY album of theirs that he played on...then come back and we'll talk.:smug:

Just some thoughts...

I think a big misunderstanding at the core of this argument is the meaning of the word "influenced". In my mind, being influenced by someone doesn't necessarily mean you try to emulate them. It just means that you are on the road you are on at least partially in thanks to they're contributions, both positive and negative.

I'm a big proponent of the "you're influenced by everything" school of thought. I believe that the lines you choose to play at your gig tonight are influenced by what CD was on in the car on the way to the gig, what you had for dinner, whether you had enough sleep last night, etc. Ideally, music (and this is mostly improvised music I'm talking about) is simply you communicating through your instrument. If you get to that rare place where the wall between your subconscious and your finger tips is totally removed, that's when you hear yourself coming through the speakers. So, with that in mind, if you've heard enough Jaco to have an opinion you were definitely influenced, good or bad. But beyond that, Jaco was such a huge figure in the history of electric bass that I think everyone is influenced by him, even without knowing it. He's certainly not alone in that regard, but he's way up the list.

Thank you!!!!!
Finally....

Edgar Meyer & Bela Fleck - Music for Two.

Amazing stuff!

I'm gonna bump this x100, it's basically a banjo player and stand up bass playing *excellent* classical pieces (and a few other genres). Mind blowingly awesome stuff, no matter what style music you tend to prefer.

Some of you are just not listening with the right ears...

I bought his CD Punk Jazz and I really didn't like it at all. Then a friend gave me a copy of his "birthday party" album it didn't even sound like the same person and I love it. His solo album and that one is the ones I listen to the most.

How can you not like come on, come over?

You may hate Jaco, but I hate threads like these..IMO they are rude and very disrespectful to others.

It's all personal opinion, so there is no wrong answer. Though, no one can disagree that he was a huge influence to many people.

How can you not like come on, come over?
You may hate Jaco, but I hate threads like these..IMO they are rude and very disrespectful to others.

It's all personal opinion, so there is no wrong answer. Though, no one can disagree that he was a huge influence to many people.
+1 Hating on a dead guy = wasted effort. If you don't like his music, ignore it.

Will somebody close this thing...i agree that this thread was started for no other reason than to push buttons. Lets kill it, here, guys...

Jacquo, you're a dude lol

Why would you say that ?


Wow, I seriously thought it was Rana Ross (RIP).

I know I get that all the time :)

I used to think Jaco was no big deal - didn't influence me - and didn't kick as much ass as GEDDY or CLIFF!!

It's been said here before - I think the people with this mentality just haven't really digested much of his work. I had a bass teacher show me Jaco's cover of Charlie Parker's "Donna Lee" when I was about 16 - and it just sounded RANDOM to me - totally non-musical. And of course, it wasn't until I started learning about jazz and slowly learning the head to Donna Lee did I get it - Jaco was mindnumbing in the way he deftly moved through that tune. Turns out, it wasn't random at all - it was just way over my head when I was 16 and new to the instrument.

I too used to feel insulted when people would say - "oh yeah - if you get a fretless you'll just play like Jaco." That pissed me off SO BAD that I actually made a conscious effort NOT to listen to Jaco for the first TWO years that I played fretless! So who did I listen to? Gary Willis. And guess what? Gary loved Jaco. HA!

I'm right there with the argument that if you play the bass you have been influenced by Jaco's legacy. You may not like Jaco's music or his playing or his tone - but why are so many of you guys uncomfortable with his influence on you? So what! Just move on and make some of your own music. Don't get so caught up with the notion of originality. IT'S BEEN DONE. That sweet harmonic lick that you played WAY before you heard of Jaco . . . still indirectly Jaco. Sorry! But that's OK you guys! Just be thankful there was a genius musician who came before you that paved the way for you to throw that harmonic lick into your band's tune!

So if someone says "Wow man - you sound like you've listened to some Jaco," just say "Thank you."

Ian

I'm right there with the argument that if you play the bass you have been influenced by Jaco's legacy.


If I commit murder does that mean that I'm influenced by others that have committed such an act before me?


Every Bassist is not influenced by Jaco directly or indirectly.

there are some super talented bassist out here that have never heard of Jaco and there are some who have and could care less about his playing and his contribution to the instrument.

It's silly to hate Jaco. Why waste all that emotion? I don't think he's as good as quite a few living bassists, and I like his fretted style far better than the fretless stuff that seems to be the big attraction. He was a pioneer and trend-setter for sure, though, and I think that's more important than his technical skills.

If I commit murder does that mean that I'm influenced by others that have committed such an act before me?


Every Bassist is not influenced by Jaco directly or indirectly.

there are some super talented bassist out here that have never heard of Jaco and there are some who have and could care less about his playing and his contribution to the instrument.

You're influenced by everything you've ever heard. Thats just the nature of the human mind. You don't get to choose what you are influenced by. Once you hear it, it becomes part of you. You may choose to emulate, choose to never play like that or just park it away in your subconscious, thinking it had no effect. Whichever you do, the influence is felt.

That said, there are certain players (Jamerson, Graham, Macca, Jaco, Entwistle and MANY others) whose influence on Western music is so huge that no one who ever played after them is void of their influence. It simply is not possible, and to deny it is either foolish or vain.

Edgar Meyer & Bela Fleck - Music for Two.

Amazing stuff!


Yes!!!

You're influenced by everything you've ever heard. Thats just the nature of the human mind. You don't get to choose what you are influenced by. Once you hear it, it becomes part of you. You may choose to emulate, choose to never play like that or just park it away in your subconscious, thinking it had no effect. Whichever you do, the influence is felt.

That said, there are certain players (Jamerson, Graham, Macca, Jaco, Entwistle and MANY others) whose influence on Western music is so huge that no one who ever played after them is void of their influence. It simply is not possible, and to deny it is either foolish or vain.

I would have to respectfully disagree and I'm not at all foolish or vain :D

I don't feel that it's a good thing to "hate" anyone!

There are many excellent bassplayers in the world. It is unrealistic to believe that everyone will like (or dislike) a particular player.

I also think that it doesn't benefit us as musicians to catgorically reject a style of music or specific players. Because I believe that there are valuable insights into our instrument that we would be denying ourselves if we do.

If you have really listened to a particular player and found nothing of value to yourself, then by all means move on. But there is no reason to "hate" or denigrate that player.


After all, it's all just vibrations in the air. :)

+1

[QUOTE=JAUQO III-X;4024191]If I commit murder does that mean that I'm influenced by others that have committed such an act before me?QUOTE]

Absolutely. You're a product of your environment. So in this extreme case, your decision or motivation to take a life would be a result of other crimes, criminals, and societal unjusts that came before you. That's the way the world works.

That said - I understand it's cool to hate someone that everyone else loves. You hear people pontificating away about how WONDERFUL this or that is - how INFLUENTIAL this or that is. Kinda makes you not want to like it or give it a chance! This happened to me with Radiohead. But then I discoverd that Radiohead were brilliant. It was just their fans that I didn't care for!

Come on guys - you hear him knockin' - let Mr. Pastorius in!!

Absolutely. You're a product of your environment. So in this extreme case, your decision or motivation to take a life would be a result of other crimes, criminals, and societal unjusts that came before you. That's the way the world works.



I can tell that You really believe that.

i agree with hating most radiohead fans

Why would you say that ?



A)Clicking on your profile.
B)Also saw a video awhile back of Jacquo on YouTube at NAMM. Nice hat. Took me a minute to remember

A)Clicking on your profile.
B)Also saw a video awhile back of Jacquo on YouTube at NAMM. Nice hat. Took me a minute to remember

OK you got me :) but seriously the person in my avatar is my very very good friend Rana Ross(RIP).

and it's Jauqo (not Jacquo :) )

I don't feel that it's a good thing to "hate" anyone!

There are many excellent bassplayers in the world. It is unrealistic to believe that everyone will like (or dislike) a particular player.

I also think that it doesn't benefit us as musicians to catgorically reject a style of music or specific players. Because I believe that there are valuable insights into our instrument that we would be denying ourselves if we do.

If you have really listened to a particular player and found nothing of value to yourself, then by all means move on. But there is no reason to "hate" or denigrate that player.


After all, it's all just vibrations in the air. :)


Where do you get your crack????

I sell it.... $7 vials...

i agree with hating most radiohead fans

It's funny, if I said I hated a political figure, I would be in trouble for being political on this board. But I can hate a musician or a whole fan-base, and it's alright..........Hmmmmm...Whole lotta hatin' going on.;)

I'm a pretty big fan of Jaco's work for the most part, but I will certainly admit he was a pompous ass about his bass playing.

I'm a pretty big fan of Jaco's work for the most part, but I will certainly admit he was a pompous ass about his bass playing.

If you feel he was at least he was able to back it up.

It's not really all that much to do with what bass you play. I think some players have such an initial impact, followed by an all-pervasive influence, that they change people's approach to their instrument in subtle, labyrinthine, untraceable ways.

Jaco was such a player. If you play electric bass, it's pretty much impossible not to be influenced by the culture in which you play it, and Jaco changed that culture.

I'm not saying everybody is going to like his style or his music. That's pretty much an impossibility. But if you think you're playing hasn't been influenced by him in any way at all, then in my opinion you're mistaken. He's just affected too many people for any of us to be completely immunised from his influence.

EDIT Just read beggar98's post - pretty much along the same lines as what I'm saying here.

I used to think Jaco was no big deal - didn't influence me - and didn't kick as much ass as GEDDY or CLIFF!!

It's been said here before - I think the people with this mentality just haven't really digested much of his work.

I had a bass teacher show me Jaco's cover of Charlie Parker's "Donna Lee" when I was about 16 - and it just sounded RANDOM to me - totally non-musical.

And of course, it wasn't until I started learning about jazz and slowly learning the head to Donna Lee did I get it - Jaco was mindnumbing in the way he deftly moved through that tune. Turns out, it wasn't random at all - it was just way over my head when I was 16 and new to the instrument.



Yes - this is what I was saying earlier - it is easy enough to get a 3-minute pop song - but a lot of Jaco's music requires an understanding of Jazz and the Jazz tradition.

If you had heard Charlie Parker and Miles Davis play Donna Lee (or any Bebop like this) - then you will get a whole lot more out of what Jaco did with this and will probably be thinking - wow, he did that on BG with no chordal support! :eek:

Whereas, if you come to this 'cold', with no prior knowledge, then it's just going to sound "random"...:confused:

[QUOTE=JAUQO III-X;4024191]



there are some super talented bassist out here that have never heard of Jaco and there are some who have and could care less about his playing and his contribution to the instrument][/QUOTE

But they are inspired by his legacy and the influence he left on others, even if they have never heard Jaco.
To be influenced doesn't mean to sound like Jaco, it means that he opened lots of doors for us bass players and one way or another we are going to pass through those doors one day.

If I commit murder does that mean that I'm influenced by others that have committed such an act before me?


Yes, if you lived in a world where nobody murders, and nobody knows or talk about it, why would you even think about muder in the first place?
Commiting murder wouldn't be in your mind.
BTW, i totally respect you and don't want to come across as attacking you, or saying anything bad about you. :cool:

Yes, if you lived in a world where nobody murders, and nobody knows or talk about it, why would you even think about muder in the first place?
Commiting murder wouldn't be in your mind.
BTW, i totally respect you and don't want to come across as attacking you, or saying anything bad about you. :cool:

I was asking a question based off of my own personal journeys thru life,I've lived with rapist(some being serial) and I weren't the least influenced to be one and I don't take your comment as attacking me at all.

I just don't agree with the fact that every bassist who even touches one is or has been influenced by Jaco.

it's just not fact.

Is every Bassist that plays upright Bass in a jazz setting influenced by Milt Hinton?

Is every Bassist that plays upright Bass in a jazz setting influenced by Milt Hinton?


Of course - whether they know it or not.

Wow, this thread has long since lost any rationality or meaning.... Signing out.

yeap....agree..pointless

Being absolutely honest, I cannot remember what Jaco's playing even sounds like. I only remember buying one of Weather Report's albums that I was recommended and putting it on. It very swiftly came off.

Do I hate him? well no, because I never met him let alone have the chance to get to form an opinion of him.

Do I hate his music? No, because there are people who are clearly enjoying the work he has done so it is important to someone.

Has he influenced me? No, as I said I cannot remember anything he has done.

Do I listen to players who have been influenced by him? I'll give you a list of my favourite players and maybe someone can tell me if any one of them are - Jack Bruce, Larry graham, Chris Squire, Norwood Fisher, Flea, John Deacon, Bernard Edwards, Roger Glover.

Is this a stupid thread and have I just wasted 5 minutes of my life? Yes

If you dont like jaco, or you do whatever. but he is one of the fathers of the bass guitar, you might not be directly influenced by him, but to say your not at all, that is ridiculous, that is like saying he did not affect bass playing at all, and no matter how much you hate him, you can't say he hasnt done atleast that.

Jaco was an important figure in electric bass history (esp in the fretless one). He was not the first to play electric fretless but he really advanced the frontiers. Do I find all his works inspiring? no. I prefer Mick Karn over Jaco in terms of approach to play the fretless, but then again it's MY opinion. I am not putting Jaco down but it's a matter of taste, just like I prefer Zuzo Moussauer over Victor Wooten (both players are super great players with ideas and melodies of their own). It's sad to generalize that this or that player has been (or is) God, or unsurpassed. It's great to have players setting the standard higher and higher (in terms of MELODY, HARMONY, TECHNIQUE and SOUND) so the next generation will have more opened doors to choose their paths from

it's basically a banjo player and stand up bass playing *excellent* classical pieces

I "stand up" when I play my electric bass, does that mean I'm playing a stand up bass?;)

Jaco was an important figure in electric bass history (esp in the fretless one). He was not the first to play electric fretless but he really advanced the frontiers. Do I find all his works inspiring? no. I prefer Mick Karn over Jaco in terms of approach to play the fretless, but then again it's MY opinion. I am not putting Jaco down but it's a matter of taste, just like I prefer Zuzo Moussauer over Victor Wooten (both players are super great players with ideas and melodies of their own). It's sad to generalize that this or that player has been (or is) God, or unsurpassed. It's great to have players setting the standard higher and higher (in terms of MELODY, HARMONY, TECHNIQUE and SOUND) so the next generation will have more opened doors to choose their paths from

+1 very well said.

Well now you're saying that if I play electric bass today, than I must be influenced by him?

Thats my biggest gripe. Most of my bass influences were BEFORE Jaco, and I don't listen to modern bass playing for the most part.

So technically, if you only listen to the recordings that were made oh... 100 years ago (example) you're still influenced by Jaco? Use your head.

And I'm a big Charlie Parker fan, and I like his version of Donna Lee tons better.

I think everyone has heard that hideous "Hollaback Girl" song by Gwen Stefani. Does that mean we're all influenced by it? I'm certainly not. But for some reason, there's a faction on here that thinks everyone's influenced by Jaco even if they haven't heard him. And I guarantee you that more people have heard "Hollaback Girl" than the music Jaco played. I don't get people sometimes.

I think everyone has heard that hideous "Hollaback Girl" song by Gwen Stefani. Does that mean we're all influenced by it? I'm certainly not.

you're influenced by it even if you just use it as a model of what NOT to do.

also, i don't know why some people don't think you can be influenced indirectly. if Jaco influenced (for the sake of argument) 20 prominent bassists, even if only slightly, chances are, if you haven't heard Jaco, you've heard at least one of those other 20 bassists. Or the 100 bassists that those 20 then influenced. I think it's fair to say not all of his contemporaries were influenced by him, but I think at this point everyone has been, in some small way. I'm not even saying I'm a fan of his. I'm just talking about a principle here.

ok, i'm done posting in this thread now. if anyone wants to carry on a friendly debate, please PM me.

At the time of Jaco,other players like Alphonso Johnson, Tony Levin,Percy Jones, (help me with some more names guys)were also changing
the role of bass.And all the unknown players who's creativity got put in the mix but were left out of the "Famous Game". Jaco got a lot of press.
When I was searching for my own voice I did NOT try to play
like Jaco. Everybody talkin about Jaco. I got so bad that any
time I played with a little vibrato on my fretless, people would say "Hey Jaco" man it was crazy.
Hate you bet.(but I liked his music)

so the debate here is over concious influence and subconcious influence?

first of all, i do belive the latter exists, but it does not have nearly the impact of the former. so yes, jaco did influence the electric bass culture but his subconcious influence could have little if any impact on any given player.

I went to a seminar with Bunny Brunnel. He said that Jaco was the best technician ever. He further stated that Jaco could not solo (improv) ... meaning that he would work the solo out before he hit the stage or the recording session.

I think that if you can play everything that Jaco, Victor Wooten, and a host of others and you can say....Hmmm that's not all that. Then good for you.

I listen to his stuff and wonder how he does it. I would like to remind you that he did this when there weren't that many guys doing it and man was it amazing ... then and now.

I agree with others...hate=bad. Dislike=ok. Do you dislike the guy? the legend? the technique? the tones? the gear? ???

I hate his personality and he himself as a person, I don't care how bad that sounds.

I hate the fact that the majority of bassists put him up on some sort of pedestal.

I don't like his technique, and I don't see what all the fuss is about. I've watched videos on him, and I'm not even mildly impressed.

I have no problem whatsoever with his gear.

yeah i have always been somewhat dissapointed with jaco. he is put up on a giant pedastal above the other virtuousos, and to be honest i really dont find him all that impressive.

I think everyone has heard that hideous "Hollaback Girl" song by Gwen Stefani. Does that mean we're all influenced by it? I'm certainly not. But for some reason, there's a faction on here that thinks everyone's influenced by Jaco even if they haven't heard him. And I guarantee you that more people have heard "Hollaback Girl" than the music Jaco played. I don't get people sometimes.

Yes, you were influenced by "Hollaback Girl". Thats the whole point of what I'm saying: you are influenced by EVERYTHING you've ever heard. It has all, in some way, had an effect on how you think about music, how you approach it, and most importantly how you feel about it. These are not things you can control. Once you've heard something, you cannot "un-hear" it. The mark is indelible. That is not to say that you are going to quote "Hollaback" in your solo tonight, or right a riff that is a take-off on whatever the hell was going on in that song.

Like I said before, music at its best is an extension of your subconscious self. Ideally, there is no gap between what you hear in your head and what comes out of your speakers. Many things can get in the way of this (technique, theory, equipment, etc.) but that is the goal of just about every musician I know. And whereas the subconscious is a collection of ALL the experiences a person has, it ALL comes out in the playing.

I like to compare it to my second favorite thing to do, cooking. I make a mean gumbo. I'm talking simmered all day, spicy as hell, meat-falls-apart, we don't need no stinkin' okra gumbo. If you think of your collective experience as that gumbo, there are major influences, such as whether I used Atlantic or Gulf shrimp, duck breast or duck thigh, andouille or smoked sausage. These are the things that people notice right away, and the things that label the gumbo as what it is. But waaaay in the background, there's little things that have a slight effect on the end flavor. What kind of salt did I use? Did I crack the pepper coarse or fine? Fresh thyme or dry? Everything that goes in the pot affects the taste, in ways that I'm not even aware of. Bass playing, and music in general, is the same. There's stuff going on in that pot that you aren't even aware of, and it all comes out to make your individual flavor.

With that, I am done with this thread (I hope). I think I've explained my point of view as well as I possibly can. Those who still disagree are just going to disagree. though they are obviously wrong.:D

I think the problem is people thing you have to like one person like Joco to be influence by him. No when you're talking about major players in the history of an instrument you get influence indirectly because that player did influence bass playing in general and the bass players you do listen and the bass players they listen too were influenced.

Also as begger98 points out we also get influenced subconsciously just by hearing music around us and when we hang with others. There is styles of music I don't like and don't think a lot of, but I hang out with other bass players who do and I hear the stuff. I try to ignore it, but every now and then I hear a riff or rhythm I think is cool. Like it or not I was just influence by that player or style of music. I bet most hear have heard a really bad bass player, but that bad player play one line that was cool. First your wonder how they did it, then you tuck it away in the bad of your head to mess with later.

Influence has different levels from just hearing a riff you like driving, digging another player who used to listen to someone, or making someone your mentor.

Last comment. Starting a thread to say you don't understand why some people like player X and having people explain why they do is constructive. But starting threads to bash/hate some player you don't like or understand is the most childish, amateur, ignorant thing to do. As I said there are styles of music I don't like or get, but I don't start threads saying that. I don't go into threads about it and say I hate it you must be dumb to like it. In fact sometime I read those threads and check out the tunes they mention. I still don't get it, but at least I tried, and kept an open mind.

I hate his personality and he himself as a person, I don't care how bad that sounds.

I hate the fact that the majority of bassists put him up on some sort of pedestal.

I don't like his technique, and I don't see what all the fuss is about. I've watched videos on him, and I'm not even mildly impressed.


Then why did you started this tread?
If you're concerned about him, THEN he has influenced you inconciously :D
Beleive it or not. :cool:
Bye!

Like I said before, music at its best is an extension of your subconscious self... I like to compare it to my second favorite thing to do, cooking. I make a mean gumbo. I'm talking simmered all day, spicy as hell, meat-falls-apart, we don't need no stinkin' okra gumbo. If you think of your collective experience as that gumbo, there are major influences, such as whether I used Atlantic or Gulf shrimp, duck breast or duck thigh, andouille or smoked sausage. These are the things that people notice right away, and the things that label the gumbo as what it is. But waaaay in the background, there's little things that have a slight effect on the end flavor. What kind of salt did I use? Did I crack the pepper coarse or fine? Fresh thyme or dry? Everything that goes in the pot affects the taste, in ways that I'm not even aware of. Bass playing, and music in general, is the same. There's stuff going on in that pot that you aren't even aware of, and it all comes out to make your individual flavor.
What a delicious way to think of it! I salute you, sir! :p

There's stuff going on in that pot that you aren't even aware of, and it all comes out to make your individual flavor.

How can one be an individual ? when most think that every electric Bass player in the world is influenced by Jaco directly or indirectly.

How can one be an individual ? when most think that every electric Bass player in the world is influenced by Jaco directly or indirectly.

As Herbie Hancock said.... You take from everyone you can, then forget it all and play.

As Herbie Hancock said.... You take from everyone you can, then forget it all and play.

Well if it works for them I guess it's kool but that's not my thing.

and couldn't that to some degree be called artistically creative laziness ?

this thread isn't going anywhere. Its now just an arguement of whether or not everyone is subconsciously or not effected by Jaco.

That wasn't part of the original question at all. I said is it wrong to hate him. I asked what made him special.

All I got was "he's the greatest bass player ever" and something about harmonics...

You weren't seriously expecting more than that, were you?

Unfortunately I was...

Welcome to Talkbass!

this thread isn't going anywhere. Its now just an arguement of whether or not everyone is subconsciously or not effected by Jaco.

That wasn't part of the original question at all. I said is it wrong to hate him. I asked what made him special.

All I got was "he's the greatest bass player ever" and something about harmonics...


Then I guess you haven't read the thread.

Alright then - yes it's wrong to hate him. What makes him special - more than his incredible voice on the instrument - is that he legitimized jazz on the electric bass. Jaco is the reason you can walk through a chorus of Autumn Leaves on your Pbass and be taken seriously as a jazz musician. Before Jaco hit the scene, if you wanted to play jazz, you HAD to play upright.

How can one be an individual ? when most think that every electric Bass player in the world is influenced by Jaco directly or indirectly.

Because Jaco isn't the only thing that has influenced them.

Even if you took two players who had only heard Jaco and no one else, they would still sound different because their playing is not only influenced by the bass players they've heard, but the classical music they've heard, the songs they heard in church, the jingles on the radio, whether or not their mom sang "the itsy-bitsy spider" or "twinkle, twinkle" when they were kids.

This is really becoming a discussion of psychology more than music, nature vs. nurture, but its all connected. Every individual is, more than anything, the sum of their experiences. Its those experiences that come through in your playing, whether you list them as an "influence" or not.

this thread isn't going anywhere. Its now just an arguement of whether or not everyone is subconsciously or not effected by Jaco.

That wasn't part of the original question at all. I said is it wrong to hate him. I asked what made him special.

All I got was "he's the greatest bass player ever" and something about harmonics...

Yes. It is wrong to hate anyone or anything because hatred is shallow and weak. It is wrong to hate a musician that accomplished so much simply because it doesn't suit your taste. It is wrong to hate a human being you have never met. It is wrong to insult the dead. It is wrong for you, with your list of pentatonic idols, to start this thread and expect to get any satisfaction from it. Yes. It is wrong.

Yes. It is wrong to hate anyone or anything because hatred is shallow and weak. It is wrong to hate a musician that accomplished so much simply because it doesn't suit your taste. It is wrong to hate a human being you have never met. It is wrong to insult the dead. It is wrong for you, with your list of pentatonic idols, to start this thread and expect to get any satisfaction from it. Yes. It is wrong.
I could swear I heard a bolt of lightning strike when I read this.

Wow, what a totally hostile post. For a guy who preaches against hate, you sure seem to have some in there.

BTW, it is not wrong to hate the dead if the dead in question are jerkoffs. Nor is it wrong to hate someone you never met. I hate Osama Bin Laden and I never met him. But then, I have lots of pentatonic idols.

Well if it works for them I guess it's kool but that's not my thing.

and couldn't that to some degree be called artistically creative laziness ?

You can't keep your story straight.

"My musical influences cover a very wide range, partly because of my respect for other cultures. I am also inspired by all Bass players I hear, for I understand the basic role of the Bass: let's not forget to keep that pocket. And Smile. And if they got it going on, then yes! Let's groove."

Whose website is that from???

Sanjaya Malakar's?

I'd just like to point out that I have not heard "Hollaback Girl" by Gwen Stefani. :D

You can't keep your story straight.

"My musical influences cover a very wide range, partly because of my respect for other cultures. I am also inspired by all Bass players I hear, for I understand the basic role of the Bass: let's not forget to keep that pocket. And Smile. And if they got it going on, then yes! Let's groove."

Whose website is that from???


It is straight
I asked a question.

and that qoute you posted is from my site.

There really is a difference between influenced and inspired.

you have no case.

It is straight
I asked a question.

and that qoute you posted is from my site.

There really is a difference between influenced and inspired.

you have no case.

They are the same thing, if you are listening you are influenced. Might be at subconscious level but it's there.

Oh well going to have to agree to disagree.

They are the same thing, if you are listening you are influenced. Might be at subconscious level but it's there.

Oh well going to have to agree to disagree.



I can live with that.

BTW, it is not wrong to hate the dead if the dead in question are jerkoffs. Nor is it wrong to hate someone you never met. I hate Osama Bin Laden and I never met him. But then, I have lots of pentatonic idols.


I think Jaco is a jerkoff, because of his pompous attitude.

And if you actually looked up my influences, they're not really pentatonic. And as for calling them idols, you make me feel like a heathen. This place is relaxed buddy, calm down.

EDIT: The comments aren't to you Jimmy M, just the fellow you quoted in your post :-D

Everything is overrated.

The best bass players in the world are most likely not famous in any way.

totally agree x100

the best bassist could just be sitting in his basement right now
he could be 13 for all we know

To this day, I don't understand what people see in The Grateful Dead, but I try to listen to them once a year to see if there's something I'm missing (BTW, haven't found it yet;) ).

What did the Grateful dead fan say after he ran out of dope?



















"This music sucks!" :D

;)

What did the Grateful dead fan say after he ran out of dope?


"This music sucks!" :D

;)


hohoo, you're not far wrong there! :hmm:

I think Jaco is a jerkoff, because of his pompous attitude.
You have fun with that...honestly.....that is the supidest thing ive ever heard.....
Did you meet him?
Didint think so...
Have you listened to his playing enough to respect his talent?
haha...no, because if you had..You wouldnt have started a thread of which the sole intent is to hate on somebody...
:scowl: :scowl: :scowl: :scowl: :scowl:
Wheres the fun, information, tip sharing, etc. in that?...or am i mistaken as to what talkbass is all about?!?!?!
If Talkbass is here to discuss how much we hate awesome bass players...then please send me that memo!

Edit: In retrospect...that sounds a bit harsh........hmm...ok then.....

As for disliking Paul McCartney... well sign me up. I hate him.
(sarcastic) Stay on task man...this is a Jaco Hatin' forum.!"Lets start a new one to slam Paul McCartney!!!"....
Do it..ill be the first one to reply....

Read 'm and weep boys...hate to break it to you...but I like the Beatles!
I know....its horrible!!

How come we never see threads of people expressing a dislike for McCartney or Jamerson? Why is it always jaco!

i actually just saw a thread earlier bashing McCartney and it was real funny. SO TRUE!

Jamerson sucks. His playing wasn't original and he had no impact on the development of the electric bass. Oh yeah, J.S Bach was a lazy bum who never really composed a single decent piece. I hate them.

Hey Otso..When was the last time you recorded with the Temptations?!?!!?....yeah...thought so....Learn to respect good players...

Hate... LOL! Holy cow - in the same breath - "I am not trolling or trying to flame here, but I hate..."

I said, now - who do... who do ya think you're foolin?

Hate is born 99% out of fear and ignorance. You "don't get" jaco so you hate him? Silly - just plain silly.

You are free to not enjoy his playing or to find the way he chose to live his life to be something that you would not do or approve of - but hate him? What's the use? Does proclaiming your hatred of him actually accomplish anything?

From my end, if exposes you has a person who does not know how to properly deal with your feelings about someone you don't know or understand.

Is it wrong? Who am I to say? I think your time would be better spent either asking questions about Jaco to better understand his technique or other things and trying to figure out if he has anything to offer for you - otherwise, why are you wasting your time and other's time discussing irrational hatred?

And to the dude who wants to lump Henderix into the mix - and McCartney too - people, please. The reason that Jaco, Jimi, and Paul are relevant is because of not only WHAT they did, but WHEN they did it. If you don't recognize the context that surrounded each artist when they presented their special contribution, it is no wonder you make inane comments like, " Is it wrong to hate Jaco Pastorius?"

Not trolling? Come on... That's just like saying, "no offense, but you stink!" Just because you claim not to be trolling does not negate your overt act of trolling.

Hey Otso..When was the last time you recorded with the Temptations?!?!!?....yeah...thought so....Learn to respect good players...

Ignore him he's just trolling. Obvious he hasn't got a clue what he's talking about or knowing anything about the history of the instrument.

Wow, I thought my sarcasm would have been more obvious. I'm actually learning some of Jamerson's lines at the moment.

Yes. It is wrong to hate anyone or anything because hatred is shallow and weak. It is wrong to hate a musician that accomplished so much simply because it doesn't suit your taste. It is wrong to hate a human being you have never met. It is wrong to insult the dead. It is wrong for you, with your list of pentatonic idols, to start this thread and expect to get any satisfaction from it. Yes. It is wrong.

+1

Lay it down!

Hey Otso..When was the last time you recorded with the Temptations?!?!!?....yeah...thought so....Learn to respect good players...

It wasn't obvious to you that he was kidding? Sheesh..., no sense of humor? Dislexic?

He was kidding. :help:

Jaco was no Jimi.I don't quite understand what you mean by this statement. Could you please elaborate?

It wasn't obvious to you that he was kidding? Sheesh..., no sense of humor? Dislexic?

He was kidding. :help:
With all the other bashing going on it was hard to tell!

Hate... LOL! Holy cow - in the same breath - "I am not trolling or trying to flame here, but I hate..."

I said, now - who do... who do ya think you're foolin?

Hate is born 99% out of fear and ignorance. You "don't get" jaco so you hate him? Silly - just plain silly.

You are free to not enjoy his playing...
Jaco, Jimi, and Paul are relevant is because of not only WHAT they did, but WHEN they did it...
Just because you claim not to be trolling does not negate your overt act of trolling.
+10000000
A little late to the party, but VERY well said, as usual. :D

I'm the greatest living electric bass player

How is that not pompous?

And the fact that most everyone here thinks Jaco is the greatest thing since sliced bread, without actually sitting down, thinking, and considering it, makes me dislike him even more.

So far you say he brought bass playing to the forefront (which was already done before him *cough Entwistle cough Bruce cough cough cough*
He played harmonics (which were around at least 100 years before him)
Played Jazz on electric.
Good composer. (Meanwhile, he couldn't improve)

I'm not rigid in my thinking, people keep telling me to watch and listen to him more, and I'm still not amazed. I've listened to most of his songs, and I still don't see what the big fuss is about.

As for a deliberate attempt at trolling, no it wasn't. People think with their eyes and not with their heads. I don't wish Jaco death (which is already too late) but I can't stand his attitude, nor others attitude about him.

What part of "Jaco was no Jimi" is hard to understand?

Did he write? I don't know.
Did he sing? I don't know.
Was he a legend? Maybe.
Jimi shook the world. Did Jaco? If he did I didn't feel it.

I remind you that the Who released My Generation in '66 (or was it '64...) with one of the first recorded bass solos, then A Quick One (Happy Jack in the States), and in 1971 - still 5 years before Jaco's first album (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jaco_Pastorius_%28album%29) - Who's Next.
(Won't Get Fooled Again (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DL4fVqlKWUw) on Youtube [with harmonics in the intro])

Don't come here and tell me Jaco was the guy who brought bass 'out there'. If you started playing because of him, great!
Meanwhile, I'll keep listening to popular bassists who are actually popular - like Claypool, Flea, Steve Harris, Geddy, Jack Bruce and I'll even bet that Justin Chancellor is more of a household word than Jaco.

Jimi shook the world. Did Jaco? If he did I didn't feel it.
qfeaat

And the fact that most everyone here thinks Jaco is the greatest thing since sliced bread, without actually sitting down, thinking, and considering it, makes me dislike him even more.


Boy, you're just jealous 'cause everyone knows Jaco, and not Bellend Blues! You go out there, change the world of electric bass playing like Jaco did and then come back here and bitch! ;)

AMEN CHRIS2112...AMEN!!!!

Considering I know next to nothing about Jaco I'll try.

First off, that whole thing was a take off on Dan Quayle trying to associate himslef with JFK during a debate a while back. The other guy said. "I knew John Kennedy, John Kennedy was a friend of mine, and you're no John Kennedy".

What part of "Jaco was no Jimi" is hard to understand?

Did he write? I don't know.
Did he sing? I don't know.
Was he a legend? Maybe.
Jimi shook the world. Did Jaco? If he did I didn't feel it.Thanks for the clarification.
I know the general implications of what that kind of statement means, but I was just curious to know 'specifically' what YOU meant by it. While it's true that Jimi may have 'shaken the world' more than Jaco, IMO a lot of that appeal is spread out to the general public and not as reserved to musician types (as I see Jaco's appeal pointing more towards). While Jimi's global appeal (in a more 'pop' context, I might add) cannot be denied, I feel that Jaco was more advanced theoretically and compositionally. And furthermore I do believe that Jaco 'shook the world' (at least mine) just as much as Jimi, but it was on a bit smaller scale and moreso for musician types, especially bass players in particular. That's just the way I see it, everybody's got their own perception.

And the fact that most everyone here thinks Jaco is the greatest thing since sliced bread, without actually sitting down, thinking, and considering it, makes me dislike him even more.That's a ridiculous thing to say!
You're implying that we're all sheep and just following along because it's cool without even knowing what we're talking about or being able to decide what we like. You weren't even born at the time most of us Jaco lovers started digging on Jaco (at the time it was happening!). It could just as easily be said that you don't know enough about music to be able to appreciate Jaco's playing (but I'm not going to say that). I still contend that if you're still playing bass ten years from now, and also if you perhaps by that time have decided to venture into more advanced forms of musical expression (like Jazz), you should revisit you're stance on 'hating' Jaco and see if you still feel that way. Forget about his pompous attitude and try giving him some slack (because after all, he did have a mental disorder), and just enjoy the music.

And the fact that most everyone here thinks Jaco is the greatest thing since sliced bread, without actually sitting down, thinking, and considering it, makes me dislike him even more.

So far you say he brought bass playing to the forefront (which was already done before him *cough Entwistle cough Bruce cough cough cough*
He played harmonics (which were around at least 100 years before him)
Played Jazz on electric.
Good composer. (Meanwhile, he couldn't improve)

I'm not rigid in my thinking, people keep telling me to watch and listen to him more, and I'm still not amazed. I've listened to most of his songs, and I still don't see what the big fuss is about.


Oh my God, you're 17! (just checked your profile)
Now i understand :p

Let me put it this way....i dont think sliced bread is all that great.....
run your mouth all you want about how much you think he sucks...you wont change my mind.

Oh my God, you're 17! (just checked your profile)
Now i understand :p

That's why I didn't argue a little harder, but I also don't think you are ever too young to be humble to your art.

I still contend that if you're still playing bass ten years from now, and also if you perhaps by that time have decided to venture into more advanced forms of musical expression (like Jazz), you should revisit you're stance on 'hating' Jaco and see if you still feel that way.

I started out playing jazz. Once you get the modulations down its not that hard. I played in a Duke Ellington cover band 6 months after I started playing, and played with them for almost a year.

Oh my God, you're 17! (just checked your profile)
Now i understand :p

Hey hey now, I'm only 18 but I know Jaco is a genius! We're not all as misguided and BBB! :p

Hey hey now, I'm only 18 but I know Jaco is a genius! We're not all as misguided and BBB! :p

I'm also 18 and like Jaco. I first heard him when I was 17 and didn't like him. Although I started liking his music when I was 17.



And the fact that most everyone here thinks Jaco is the greatest thing since sliced bread, without actually sitting down, thinking, and considering it, makes me dislike him even more.



Actually, I only started liking Jaco after I really listened to his music.

I started out playing jazz. Once you get the modulations down its not that hard. I played in a Duke Ellington cover band 6 months after I started playing, and played with them for almost a year.

Ah, I see you are some sort of expert jazz player then. You're right, jazz is not that hard. How many Scott Lafaro solos have you transcribed? Can you hear the difference between a b9 and a #9 on an altered chord? Know all your modes of Melodic Minor?

Im young too and i think Jacos awesome...ik that sounds young but im not some pentatonic-flinging punk that thinks the only way to play bass is with a pick and with it hanging around your knees....believe me.....

I'd like to repeat that I know nothing about Jaco or his music. I should check out his stuff, I guess I haven't because I've labeled him (bad move on my part) as a "lead bassist" and I have little interest in that sort of thing - I'm probably missing a lot of good music. But, to me, from what I've read, it seems like his music is focused around the bass and I'm more interested in music I like with a good bass part, if that makes any sense.

The deal with Jimi is kind of weird - sure, there was a lot of hype and "pop" marketing when he was alive. I don't think anyone had any idea that he'd still be "the man" decades later. He was no virtuso by any means - he was Jimi and had his own style. He was also very imaginative and creative.

I think I will listen to Jaco some. I may have overreacted to someone's statement that he'd influenced me. By that logic Beethoven influenced me too, but I wouldn't insult him by saying so, much less by believing it.

I think when you listen to Jaco you will discover he was about the music first. That why people loved him as a sideman listen to his work with Pat Methney and Joni Mtchell for example. Also Jaco was an arranger and composer listen to his band band he wrote for. In fact many of the solo he took he worked on like arrangements and constantly rearranged them.

I think your comments about Jaco and Jimi are typically of many young players. They judge on chops and flash and not what someone is saying musically. Most musicians as their ears develop they start appreciating what a musician says in their playing, not how fast or difficult the piece was. So give Jaco another listen I think find some great music and grooves. Especially the stuff with Jaco and Peter Erskine on drums they were quite a groove machine on stage.

I never was a Jaco fan, but I recognize his influence to bass playing in general and to the Jazz fretless. I guess I'm not partial tto him because I am not a big jazz fan anymore, I always liked more rock/guitar oriented fusion (Jeff Beck, Early Holdsworth, Tony Williams etc)

To me Jaco's harmonic work broke new ground for bassists.

I was more a Stanley Clarke fan. Both of theses bass players, to me were next in line since John Entwistle of comercializing the bass as much more than the support of the guitarist.All had top 40 bass hits that defined so many bass clones- My Generation, School Days & Birdland. The only modern bass player, that I can think of that has done the same in modern times is Peter Hook. He took bass playing to a new level without bass playing gymnastics.

With the landmark music of Clarke & Jaco , spewed a bunch of overplaying clone bass players who all sound the same. The same can be said of guitarists like Van Halen, Al Dimeola, Allan Holdsworth, Steve Vai (clone spawning), which tends to bring a genre down (jazz rock fusion is still a dirty word, a bad label, to many)

I was more a Stanley Clarke fan.

Same here, I love Jaco but Stan is one of my favourites!

It is important to try and remember the context in which they made their musical statements. When Jaco dropped his solo album in 1976, no one had ever done anything like "Donna Lee" on a bass before. And "Portrait of Tracy"? Far beyond what anyone else was doing. Now, are there guys today who are doing things that are way beyond those examples? Absolutely. But there is something to be said for being first, for seeing your instrument in a way no one else ever has. So, while I continue to change the station every time a Hendrix tune comes on, I absolutely respect his contribution.
This is right on. Also, when looking in retrospect like this, you have to consider the impact they had on music from their point on. Once Jaco hit the scene, everything changed in the world of electric bass. I think I recall a quote from his biography where someone listened to his first album and said "I can hear the sound of bass cases being closed everywhere" (or something like that).

To this day, you can hear Jaco in the playing of others. Contrast this with a guy like Michael Manring, who is himself an enormous Jaco fan, a jaw-droppingly awesome player, and from what I can tell a really nice guy. Manring, though exceedingly talented and skilled, is not going to create a tremedous impact in the world of music after he is gone. He will be remembered as a great player in his time.

You guys are being too hard on BBB.How can you argue with a guy who is a seasoned session player at only 17?:scowl:

Plus, I should of course mention that, if Jaco were still alive, he might hate you too. ;)

(Meanwhile, he couldn't improve)Assuming you meant "improvise", here we go again.

The supposition that Jaco could not improvise is largely based on this comment (http://www.marcusmiller.com/faq.html?category=5&faqid=96&color=9) from Marcus Miller. I got myself into a real flame war on this topic a while back, because the guy on the other side of the argument was making up new definitions of the term "improvise" that, if used in this context, would not harm his personal mind image of Jaco's genius. It got frustrating and I eventually unsubscribed.

I have widely heard that Jaco's most notable solos were somewhat composed. However, the fact that he had monster chops is incontrovertible and nobody who lived in the scene as long as he did would completely lack the ability to blow. The conclusion I have arrived upon is that Jaco was uncomfortable with his own ability to construct a satisfyingly lyrical or melodic phrase on the spot. Emphasis on "uncomfortable with his own ability". I assume that he thought Marcus could do so better than he could, and therefore the comment.

Whether or not anyone can improvise (using the definition of the word that is 99.99% likely to be relevant when discussing jazz music) is of course a gray area. Ornette plays whatever he wants, chord structures be damned, and he is a legend.

Can any of you guys recommend some Jaco for someone new to his music?


I don't listen to him much anymore, but I definitely went through my Jaco phase and I think it's important for every musician to be a student of his/her instrument. Jaco is one of the touchstones.

I'd recommend his self-titled debut album and Weather Report - 9:30 (a live album) and/or Heavy Weather (studio.) Also the tracks "Cannonball" and "Dry Cleaner From Des Moines" are really funky.

The thing about Jaco is, like a lot of other important musicians, he's almost too influential in the sense that a lot of people fall so hard for his sound that they never really develop their own unique styles. At least, that's my take on it.

For the younger players who are understandably tired of hearing