Man, I love the talent this guy has, I mean, as far as technical ability, he can stand with anyone, but I think with the way Dream Theater writes, he has limited opportunity to show his ability to "feel it". Another thing I don't like is his tone...it's too quiet, and sort of lost in the mix, even when I saw him live...I still dig him...ANY THOUGHTS??? ---MR

Rob W: I totally understand your point. I have been a Dream Theater fanatic for 11 yrs., and I realise that his bass parts are a part of the composition, as a whole. I am also aware that you have to look at a composition as a whole, thus the parts that make it up contribute to the "whole". I never said it was a bad thing..Hell..he's one of my fav. bassists ever, as they are one of my fav. bands. I think that it's alot more pleasant to hear him play with "Platypus" because he has more freedom to...you know.."JAM"!! That really doesn't matter that much though...I'm more irritated with the way that his parts are mixed in the production part of the album, or even live...I mean..put a DT album on, then throw on "Permanent Waves"from Rush...Now that's how you mix a bass line. http://www.talkbass.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

Anyway....Which DT album did you get? --MR

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by mr2112:

Man, I love the talent this guy has, I mean, as far as technical ability, he can stand with anyone, but I think with the way Dream Theater writes, he has limited opportunity to show his ability to "feel it". Another thing I don't like is his tone...it's too quiet, and sort of lost in the mix, even when I saw him live...I still dig him...ANY THOUGHTS??? ---MR<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I just bought my first Dream Theater album yesterday, and I have to say it is by far the best album I've heard from a newer group.

Anyway, mr2112, I have to say I really DO NOT agree with you about JM being limitted. I really hate the school of thought that music is a platform for displaying one's technical prowess. I am a big fan of prog rock, and I really appreciate great musicianship, but to me the composition always comes first. I firmly believe in everybody supporting the big picture.

To me a given composition will have certain requirements from each instrument - sometimes they require a very small part from one instrument or nothing at all, other times a busier, more technically demanding part may be just right. Just look at a great composer like Beethoven: he didn't write all of his bass lines to be completely killer - sometimes you just play one note every 4 bars while other times he wrote very nasty difficult passages. I recently did the Debussy opera, Pelleas et Melisande - the tuba player had 1 note in the first act. Debussy didn't just fill up the opera with superfluous tuba parts just to give the tuba player something to do - he wrote exactly as much as what he felt was right for the music.

That's why I think the Peter Gabriel era Genesis material is some of the greatest prog rock ever written. Although they were all great instrumentalists, you never got the sense that they were trying to show off their technical prowess - the song as a whole always came first before anybody's individual parts.

I think that is precisely what makes John Myung a great bass player. Although he has the ability to be all over the bass, he often chooses not to, because it would just be gratuitous.

Dream Theater's latest album, Scenes From A Memory seems to be mixed to where you can hear John's bass alot better and his playing is incredible. The album that he did with Platypus- Ty Tabor(Kings X) Derek Sherinian (Former DT), and Rod Morgenstein-is a good album, it is a bit of a departure from what you would hear from Dream Theater but it's still good for what it is. Then again, how can it be bad considering the members it has.

HomerJ--I agree..SFAM is an incredible piece of work! The bass part is much easier to distinguish on this one, and MAN...SUPERB MUSICIANSHIP!! I love everything about this CD, including the story...If you have not seen them live, they play the whole thing from start to finish, plus, an 8 min. keyboard solo..AWESOME!!

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Well...I should be practicing, not typing..so....Bye, -MR

I've been a DT fanatic since their first album. They definetly are a talented bunch. I just want to mention there is a band out of Rochester, N.Y. called "Eleventh Hour". They perform originals along the DT style. They usually open up with originals in their first set and cover DT in their second set. Let me tell you, you would not know the difference. They even do 3 piece harmonies to a T. If you're ever in the Rochester, Buffalo, Toronto area, I recommend you check these guys out. You won't be disappointed.

Doug...I would definetely have to check them out! --THANX FOR THE INFO!!!!!!

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Well...I should be practicing, not typing..so....Bye, -MR

Sorry, to "bump" this up, but I was curious if any of the 'newbies' had any thoughts to add on this guy...since he is one of my FAVS.!!:D:D

I just saw DT this past Monday night at a small auditorium here in Denver. They were incredible, I agree though I wish they would mix Myungs bass parts to be heard a little better. Although in Scenes from a Memory John's bass parts seemed to be mixed a little better, also his bass can be heard pretty good on their double live album that came out in 99'. They have also been one of my favorite bands for about the last 10 years or so. I also have to mention as well that another one of my fav's opened for them that night, Spocks Beard. They are incredible, not quite as heavy as DT but still I think one of the best newer prog rock bands out there. Their bassist (can't remember his name at this time) plays a Ric that is just booming.

Yeah, he´s one of my fav bassplayers. I bought his bass video and...****! he´s really cool..

Originally posted by Farley
[Referring to Spock's Beard] Their bassist (can't remember his name at this time) plays a Ric that is just booming.

The SB bassist is Dave Meros. Unfortunately he's not playing on the current tour dates, AFAIK (the guy filling in is doing a good job, though). Yeah, they're an excellent band. It was great to see them and DT in Philly a couple weeks ago.

Regarding John Myung, he's the primary reason I started playing bass and he's certainly the reason I bought a 6 string (hard to play those parts on a 4 string...well, it's kinda hard on a 6 string, too ;)). I was stunned the first time I saw DT live and saw John Myung play. I couldn't believe how fast his fingers moved.

Joel

While Geddy Lee is my favorite bassist, John Myung is probably technically more skilled(he does stuff I haven't ever seen Geddy do, but who knows if he can? It may just not fit Rush's music to be tapping and playing at Mach 126), and is a very close second. Rush and DT are my 2 favorite bands too, so I'm biased maybe. I ordered Myung's video too, but its on backorder :( Well, what else can I say except that I am a huge fan of this guy and Dream Theater?

I think this guy could be alot more, well, let me say, more recognised(sp), if he was more of a "free wheeler" if you know what I mean. He is soooooooo talented, but is limited by the structure of DT's music.

I LOVE Dream Theater's music the way it is...and I wouldn't like it to change even a bit just "to let JM show his abilities"...what are you thinking ppl?It's all about songs anyway,am I wrong?What's the reason to play bass if you don't make good music?And,as long as you make good songs,you're a good musician to me.I think Myung's tone is very sweet and fits DT's music perfectly.And BTW he has played some incredibly cool solos like the tapping one in Metropolis Pt.1...ROB W,couldn't agree with you more.
Rock on

oh,by the way,a nice unofficial site dedicated to John has just started...check it out!
http://www.johnmyung.com

Awaken from the dead? ;)

John Myung has some interesting bass parts, but I feel he doesn't express them enough. It seems to me he is focused on playing the right note, instead of getting the right feel. Not exactly any Nelson-esque groove. But then, progressive metal isn't really known for the emotions, more technique and theory.

What I hear is good (except for that stinking solo on "Dance Of Eternity"... bah), but what I see is less good. While he has some great lines, his onstage charisma equals zero. He's definitely one of the most boring live musicians I've ever seen. Pretty much stands in one place and looks on his fingers the whole show. It might work if you're a cool personality (John Entwistle), but seeing John M live is as much fun as chewing on a paper tissue. IMO.

And regarding his "Metropolis part I" tapping solo... I believe he has himself said that he only managed to pull that one of properly once - when they recorded the song for I&W. I don't blame him, it's an amazingly difficult part to play, being so simple in structure as it is.

Oh man, he messed it up in the 5 Years In A Livetime video - heh, the look he got from Derek Sherinian... and John P pats his head afterwards... har har har :D

;)

Yeah, that part is really hard to execute. I don't even mess with tapping it anymore because I don't have monstrous hands like John. I play it fingerstyle on my 6 string utilizing the B string in the 7th, 8th, 10th, and 12th positions for the low root notes. It's alot easier and sounds so close to what he plays, I see no reason to break my fingers trying to do it exactly like he does.

Originally posted by Oysterman
And regarding his "Metropolis part I" tapping solo... I believe he has himself said that he only managed to pull that one of properly once - when they recorded the song for I&W.

well,when I saw DT live in Greece my jaws dropped to the ground seeing how clear and perfect he played it...my mouth was left open for about 20 secs!Amazing.And BTW I don't really care much about what virtuosos say,as they usually go for divine perfection...someone told me that Neil Peart once said he has no talent whatsoever,so...

Ya, Dragonlord, I agree - it's perfect or nothing for most so called virtuosos. And with the virtuoso reputation the DT members have (the hype is incredible, really), I guess they have to feel some pressure on them. Like, miss one note and you're playing bad.
Well, it's in human nature to fail - too bad for John M that he did it while recording a DT live video... :rolleyes:

And Kong, it IS hard for a man with short fingers and long scale basses! :D

Originally posted by Oysterman
what I see is less good. While he has some great lines, his onstage charisma equals zero. He's definitely one of the most boring live musicians I've ever seen. Pretty much stands in one place and looks on his fingers the whole show.

See, I got the opposite impression. Yes, he does just stand there and look at his fretboard the whole time, but he has some sort of aura about him when he plays. For me he was my favorite to watch - better than watching that clown Portnoy spitting water all over everyone the whole show... :rolleyes:

BTW, for you DT type prog heads, check out my band Ice Age at http://www.magnacarta.net/asp_bin/viewcdpage.asp?catno=MA-9028-2 The guitarist and keyboardist studied with Petrucci and Kevin Moore for a long time, and the influence is obvious. ;) The drummer is Neil Peart incarnate, and root boy here chugs along down below. :D

Originally posted by Oysterman
And regarding his "Metropolis part I" tapping solo... I believe he has himself said that he only managed to pull that one of properly once - when they recorded the song for I&W. I don't blame him, it's an amazingly difficult part to play, being so simple in structure as it is.

Oh man, he messed it up in the 5 Years In A Livetime video - heh, the look he got from Derek Sherinian... and John P pats his head afterwards... har har har :D

;)
You must not own Live at the Marquee! :)

My take is this. John is one of the most amazing and underrated/understated bassists of our time. I disagree with those who voice the opinion of "John should stand out more" or "DT should change their songs to highlight John more" John is not a Geddy Lee. His brilliance is his ability to write a counter melody or harmony while the other players are establishing melodies themselves. I liken DT to a good choir, each voice can stand out, sure, but when put together, the voices compliment each other 100%

hmmmm, virtuosity...any of you guys ever meet mike portnoy? he's a virtuoso...ask him....he'll tell ya...i hate that guy. lolol awesome drummer though, as are the other guys in the band....well, musicians with their respective instruments. heheh i almost said they were all drummers :eek: john myung is an excellent bassist and a nice guy too...i would love to hear those guys live again. without vocals though. that guy is pretty horrible live.

Mike Portnoy is (IN MY OH SO VERY HUMBLE OPINION)a stupid drummer. Who would ever think of putting double kickdrums in a ballad?????

Oh yeah, Lars Ulrich.
But let's not start on him. (the only possible candidate for "most un-funky drummer" on this planet)

Originally posted by Niels Keijzer
Mike Portnoy is (IN MY OH SO VERY HUMBLE OPINION)a stupid drummer. Who would ever think of putting double kickdrums in a ballad?????
Oh yeah, Lars Ulrich.
But let's not start on him. (the only possible candidate for "most un-funky drummer" on this planet)
Riiiiiiight!

Originally posted by Niels Keijzer
Mike Portnoy is (IN MY OH SO VERY HUMBLE OPINION)a stupid drummer. Who would ever think of putting double kickdrums in a ballad?????


well,you just said why Mike Portnoy is a great drummer...isn't that what progressive music is all about,doing original stuff that is hard to think of?I like all of Mike's additions to DT songs...I mean I never thought,wow,this would be a great song if it wasn't for the drumming.Just MHO,of course,but I think that things like double kickdrums in a ballad,as you mention,are very clever and refreshing.

Originally posted by Stingray5


See, I got the opposite impression. Yes, he does just stand there and look at his fretboard the whole time, but he has some sort of aura about him when he plays. For me he was my favorite to watch - better than watching that clown Portnoy spitting water all over everyone the whole show... :rolleyes:

BTW, for you DT type prog heads, check out my band Ice Age at http://www.magnacarta.net/asp_bin/viewcdpage.asp?catno=MA-9028-2 The guitarist and keyboardist studied with Petrucci and Kevin Moore for a long time, and the influence is obvious. ;) The drummer is Neil Peart incarnate, and root boy here chugs along down below. :D

Sorry to bring this thread back again, but since the 'Met.P2 Scenes from New york' DVD came out, I felt another inspiration.

Hell yeah, he stands there, in 1 place, just watch his fingers throughout the show, it's like watching a spider crawl across the room! That is serious bass work!! Oh, by the way, I have three bootlegs(taken from the 'evil' Napster) where he plays the tapping solo in Metropolis Pt.1, to perfection, IN EVERY VERSION!!!......bye

The guy is flat out amazing. He's definitely blessed with long fingers though, which is huge asset when playing guitar or bass I think. If I could add about an inch to my fingers, I'd be a god too probably. :)

He plays an RBX too, cool!

Originally posted by snfjtu
The guy is flat out amazing. He's definitely blessed with long fingers though, which is huge asset when playing guitar or bass I think. If I could add about an inch to my fingers, I'd be a god too probably. :)

I agree with the "good genes" about the long fingers, but, I'll never be able to play like him (tech. speaking)...........

anyone know why JM didnt have a bass solo on Once in a livetime?Or maybe it was removed?Why was guitarist John Petrucci given a self indulgent solo and not JM?No offence to JP,i think he is an exceptional guitarist,but his solo spot sounded like some metal kid practising in his bedroom.

JM hasn't had a solo spot on any tours as far as I know. It's always been Petrucci, Portnoy, and the key players. MHO is that Myung doesn't want to be out front in that way. It seems like he would be out of place in a solo spot personality-wise.

Originally posted by ytsebri
JM hasn't had a solo spot on any tours as far as I know. It's always been Petrucci, Portnoy, and the key players. MHO is that Myung doesn't want to be out front in that way. It seems like he would be out of place in a solo spot personality-wise.

I agree, I don't ever remember JM having a "solo", unless it was in the structure of the song, IE: 'Met. Pt.1'.