I'm going crazy here! I play bass for my church youth group and sometimes in the main church. There's a new bassist that has started playing and for some reason everyone thinks that he's amazing. He's admittedly a little better than me in that he is confident enough to play solo sounding fills. I feel like I play boring simple stuff and the same fills over and over. I'm going nuts....Why is it that the flashy guys that can play some nice fills but lose the groove in doing so get recognition and praise and the guys that keep the groove and time aren't appreciated? Any suggestions?

I play the same way he does, and I've gotten a lot of compliments compared to the other bassists before me.
It's the "cool" sounding stuff that attracts the people, people in the audience wouldn't be like "Wow, that bassist can sure keep time!"
Or "Wow, he's really tight with the drummer!" type thing. (Maybe musicians or other bassists would say that... but you catch my drift)
They'll hear something, and be like, Dang.. that sounded sweet

But yeah, the flashy guys get the recognition, cause they play what gets people to pay attention to them.
Whether it helps, or hinders the song.

But in reality,
most musicians would rather play with someone who can keep time and groove over the flashier players (unless the flashy can groove and keep time and be fancy)
And about your "arsenal" of licks. Just keep playing, learn a lot of songs, learn other bassist's licks, and just jam on your own and learn your bass more. You'll find so many licks, you'll just be able to pop 'em out without thinking.

Maybe it`s because most of the people know next to nothing about music, and they only like hearing solos and flashy stuff. I`d rather play with someone who can keep a beat, and be able to play simple stuff, rather than someone who can play flashy stuff but cant stay in sync with the band. Also, if he`s a bit older than you, he may have more experience, so don't worry about it. I`m the youngest bassist in the music department at my church (the older guys are in their early to late 40's), and if I cant play as good as they can, I try to not let that get me down. I just try to play the best that I can, and put some soul into it. I don't know how long you've been playing, but you might want to practice putting a few triad bar lines into your performance (to the inexperienced, it sounds like a solo, lol). That`s what I've been doing, and I've now been sounding more like an experienced bassist (playing some improv stuff and the like). Just try your hardest, stay in-time, and just learn to be happy while playing the simple stuff.

Music is not about competition neither is playing music for god. And neither is definitely about pride. He might not even be playing original stuff. But if you want it bad enough you should pray for it. You should also practice making your own licks and walking basslines.
Dude
I'll show you something that gets them every time
D]---5---7---9-
A]--------------
E]-3---5---7----
---s-p-s-p-s-p

OR just go up or down a scale really fast

Music is not about competition neither is playing music for god. And neither is definitely about pride. He might not even be playing original stuff. But if you want it bad enough you should pray for it. You should also practice making your own licks and walking basslines.
Dude
I'll show you something that gets them every time
A]---5---7---9-
E]-3---5---7---
---s-p-s-p-s-p

OR just go up or down a scale really fast

From hero to zero in one post! :p

[QUOTE=AlphaMale;4093925] neither is playing music for god.

If he's playing for his worship team, then yes, his music should be for God. Worship team players shouldn't go up on stage to show off and draw the audience to them, to the point they are totally missing out on what the audience should be paying attention to.

I might be a bit out of my depth here as I don't play worship music or attend church, but I'll do my best.

First, I wouldn't worry about him being better than you. Someone's always better. It's too easy to waste lots of time catching up to and keeping up with better people when something different and within your skill set will often work just as well. And if people want to drive change or hold themselves or others over you, they'll do that whether you're worried about it or not ;)

Just play your songs your way and don't feel intimidated by the better player. Chances are good he's not intentionally trying to intimidate you by his presence and just doing his own thing.

Look at the places in the songs where the fills you do know are working and try restricting your use of those fills a bit if you can - the fills won't repeat as often that way. Also try working that one fill to death at home - play it forwards, backwards, half and half, other way, all over the fretboard, skip a note, double a note, half tempo, double tempo, palm muted/staccatto'd, bent, etc etc.

And as someone else said, listen to and learn tonnes of basslines from multiple genre's, with a view to pulling out the ideas behind the licks/runs, not learning the songs themselves. Noone participating in band led worship should care if a lick you play was inspired by Alex Webster or came from a song not commonly appreciated amongat religious groups.

Also, watch or listen to the the "better" bassist play and try to recall what he does where. Not to copy his playing or style but to find alternatives to what he does in those places.

If the band sustains an A note for a full bar after the 2nd chorus and better bassist slaps and pops a lick or scale over that sustained bar and wows the crowd just go home and try to find something he doesn't play there that you can do and works well.
Ring a harmonic over the part, or halve and stacatto, or double and drive the notes you're playing for that bar etc...just find something that you can play well, matches the key of the song and most importantly COMPLIMENTS THE MUSIC.

Hope that helps some.

Thanks guys.

I think that's what gets me. I play with the idea to make the group as a whole sound better rather than making myself stand out but I get sat down in order to let this guy get up there and solo over a progression while the rest of the music tries to keep the song going. Oh well, I guess there's nothing to do but practice more. Thanks for your input!

Thanks guys.

I think that's what gets me. I play with the idea to make the group as a whole sound better rather than making myself stand out but I get sat down in order to let this guy get up there and solo over a progression while the rest of the music tries to keep the song going. Oh well, I guess there's nothing to do but practice more. Thanks for your input!

I wish you would have said that first! Doesn't sound like the other player is at fault at all. He's been asked to play. Just racing home and practicing more won't resolve your issue here anytime soon but I suspect communicating with a few key people in your quote above might. :)

Take the issue up with the person sitting you down to let this guy play. At a good time of course, calmly approach them and mention the band changes do sound good, then casually ask whether this trend of you playing less will continue and if so, ask why?

Regardless of the answer, stay calm and think through things rationally as they develop - it's probably not personal and if it is personal, then the best thing you can do is move on without reacting anyway. Hopefully, you'll have a good discussion with this person and things will resolve themselves with a little effort from you and him.

I would also be willing to bet that the other bassist doesn't even know you have an issue about him playing. Have you spoken to him about it? Talking to him about how you're surprised about the change (since it sounds like noone mentioned it before) and unsure if your spot is safe might help you out on that front - he might offer to show you some things to keep up, or decline a few invitations to play with the band knowing it's not with your "consent"...as it were. Or he might say that's right you're out and I'm in it's just a matter of time.

But at least you won't be left wondering or wasting your time, and you'll be in a stronger position deciding what to do from here on in...

Communicate. ;)

Good luck.

The "brotherhood" of bass players is founded on a sense of community, not competition. Embrace this fellow - hang out with him, share ideas & technique, and learn about music together. You'll both be better for it.

Then, just before the gig, tell him his car is on fire. As he runs outside, casually walk up and start playing. :)

I have spoken with the person that schedules all the musicians on multiple occasions and her response is that she doesn't have the time to practice with me to get stuff right. She's the music director. I've only had a chance to play with her maybe four times over the past two years and she's basing her opinion on those rare occasions. She wants the bass to hit every push and exact note with her. There isn't anything wrong with that it's just that it takes time to learn to play with her, I haven't had that opportunity. I don't have a problem at all with the other bassist, he and I are actually buddies I just don't understand why it is that someone that plays like him is allowed to play however he wants regardless of whether he is "in sync" or not and someone like me is put back on the bench to wait until the music director has an opportunity to "write out chord charts." It's like I got cut from the team without getting to try out. Just venting....:bawl:

I have spoken with the person that schedules all the musicians on multiple occasions and her response is that she doesn't have the time to practice with me to get stuff right. She's the music director. I've only had a chance to play with her maybe four times over the past two years and she's basing her opinion on those rare occasions. She wants the bass to hit every push and exact note with her. There isn't anything wrong with that it's just that it takes time to learn to play with her, I haven't had that opportunity. I don't have a problem at all with the other bassist, he and I are actually buddies I just don't understand why it is that someone that plays like him is allowed to play however he wants regardless of whether he is "in sync" or not and someone like me is put back on the bench to wait until the music director has an opportunity to "write out chord charts." It's like I got cut from the team without getting to try out. Just venting....:bawl:

Yes it's unfair and I don't know why your musical director is making these decisions to have him play over you either. It must frustrate you wondering why. But by concentrating on why YOU can't play, not why he can play, and working towards resolving your shortcomings (if indeed they actually are part of the reason here) you at least won't just be a victim at someones mercy as it were.

You mention she has only scheduled time with you to practice 4 times in 2 years, so once every 6 months roughly, and I'm presuming it's during those 2 years she hasn't found time to bang up some charts for you, let alone spend any quality time with you on bass, right?

You're not the problem at all IMO mate and nothing you do will help you much now I fear. Try scheduling more time with her and if she can't do that to start with then kick up a stink there and then and threaten to quit and go play golf with your bass mate on Sundays instead or something - you've been their bassist for 2 years man!!!!

Also, consider the possibility that the directors' own shortcomings have perhaps been noticed by the church hierachy over the 2 years and something you don't know about came to a head and it has become both convenient and necessary for her to replace you on occassion with someone who can play what she should have already been helping you learn in 2 years. Maybe? Fun to fantasise about at least :D

And either way, if I was in your situation I wouldn't have put up with this for 2 years. A year tops, and thats only cause it's a church thing. You've basically described a situation where to me at least, your director thinks you're good enough to fill a spot until someone better or easier to teach comes along. Anyone who strings anyone else along using hobbies the strung along party loves and gives his free time for should be hung drawn and quartered IMO

Oh, and one last thing - if your mate can play wild fills and not hold a good time or groove, and you can hold a good time and groove but aren't confident on fills etc, why hasn't anyone suggested you BOTH play? It doesn't sound like you'd be stepping on toes if you both wanted it and if you really had to be different just both play 5's one strung BEADG the other strung EADGC and go nuts boys????

I think the key to this lies in one word of your original post, the guy is Confident. Confidence breed confidence in others so that why others are attracted by his playing and probably him. If you aren't confident in yourself your playing is going reflect it to and people pickup on it and they become less confident in you.

Being a good musician is a balance of self confidence and skills. If you get out of balance in either area it is a problem. Over confident and bad skills. People will give you a shot due your confidence, but when you play like slop then they don't call back. Lots of skills and no confidence people aren't going to notice you or maybe even know you exist.

Also players who play with confidence make music come to life. There is usually more energy to their playing. They makes mistake just like anyone else, but how many people notice it. Many players make a mistake and everyone knows it. Why, their volume drops and you see it in their body language. Also they make a mistake they dwell on it and end up make more mistakes. A confident player play "Wrong, BUT Strong" . They keep the volume the same, their body language doesn't change and 98% of the people listening don't even notice and that includes other bass players listening. People don't listen as close as we listen to ourselves. Now skills come into play and a good player will have ways to turn a mistake into something workable.

I was at a big church event last night and during the upbeat Gospel tune to finish the night the bass player misses the cut where the whole band drops instantly to acappela for the choir. No one noticed, I noticed because I had been digging and focusing on his playing. He caught himself and only play one extra note, and he tweaked to kind of make it work. He wasn't rattled sat their like everything is good. They had another cut in the tune, and he caught that one.

So like others said get to know this new guy. If you been laying down solid groove he probably digs your playing. Also people see the two of you getting along show confidence. And my evil twin would say record or memorize a few of his fills. Go home and figure them out and work them into your playing. Then try to use them next time you play. If he hears his fills, he'll have to step it up. You might push him out of his comfort zone.

People with only little or no knowledge in music think that the one pulling out the most technically advanced riffs is the better one. (I know, I used to think like that not too many years ago). A bassist not making himself "visible" will be considered as just another boring bassist, and I would say that there's at least a little bit of truth in that. If you want to be more visible than the "average boring bassist", try to focus on playing more interesting bass lines, but of course without sacrificing groove and timing and the general feel of the song. (Think Jamerson)

As an advice, listen to a lot of different music, especially jazz, and learn to play walking bass as well as possible. Steal some ideas that you like and try to apply them in your playing. Feel free to steal any musical ideas and apply them in your playing if you want. I take a couple of examples:

- I start playing the guitar riff from "Play that funky music" on my bass. Later the rest of the bands comes in playing "Let me entertain you" while I continue with the same riff and start singing...

- The guitarist in a band I play in played "Every breath you take" over "Stand by me" on our last rehearsal... Sounded really nice. He'll probably do that on our gig tomorrow, too.

I love to make own versions of songs... ;)

I think the key to this lies in one word of your original post, the guy is Confident. Confidence breed confidence in others so that why others are attracted by his playing and probably him. If you aren't confident in yourself your playing is going reflect it to and people pickup on it and they become less confident in you.

Being a good musician is a balance of self confidence and skills. If you get out of balance in either area it is a problem. Over confident and bad skills. People will give you a shot due your confidence, but when you play like slop then they don't call back. Lots of skills and no confidence people aren't going to notice you or maybe even know you exist.

Also players who play with confidence make music come to life. There is usually more energy to their playing. They makes mistake just like anyone else, but how many people notice it. Many players make a mistake and everyone knows it. Why, their volume drops and you see it in their body language. Also they make a mistake they dwell on it and end up make more mistakes. A confident player play "Wrong, BUT Strong" . They keep the volume the same, their body language doesn't change and 98% of the people listening don't even notice and that includes other bass players listening. People don't listen as close as we listen to ourselves. Now skills come into play and a good player will have ways to turn a mistake into something workable.

I was at a big church event last night and during the upbeat Gospel tune to finish the night the bass player misses the cut where the whole band drops instantly to acappela for the choir. No one noticed, I noticed because I had been digging and focusing on his playing. He caught himself and only play one extra note, and he tweaked to kind of make it work. He wasn't rattled sat their like everything is good. They had another cut in the tune, and he caught that one.

So like others said get to know this new guy. If you been laying down solid groove he probably digs your playing. Also people see the two of you getting along show confidence. And my evil twin would say record or memorize a few of his fills. Go home and figure them out and work them into your playing. Then try to use them next time you play. If he hears his fills, he'll have to step it up. You might push him out of his comfort zone.


Great post! +1

I'm going crazy here! I play bass for my church youth group and sometimes in the main church. There's a new bassist that has started playing and for some reason everyone thinks that he's amazing. He's admittedly a little better than me in that he is confident enough to play solo sounding fills. I feel like I play boring simple stuff and the same fills over and over. I'm going nuts....Why is it that the flashy guys that can play some nice fills but lose the groove in doing so get recognition and praise and the guys that keep the groove and time aren't appreciated? Any suggestions?

Two different problems. You need to learn more theory, with sufficient technique, so that you have more musical choices at your disposal. Then, you need to make good choices.

The new guy has a different problem. Losing the groove is unacceptable, not matter how cool the riffs are.

So, make sure that when you DO expand your musical vocabulary you don't make the same mistake he's making!

Thanks for all the response fellas!

Micheal is he this kind of player?

http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=2016290883

Micheal is he this kind of player?

http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=2016290883


The kind that music that glorifies the player and not God.

The kind that music that glorifies the player and not God.

Neither earth nor heaven is glorified when it don't groove.

+ 100000 KayCee

Additionally, real world playing is fierce & competitive, no other way around it.

People here can pacifiy Micheal all day, but his music minister surely knows what will fill seats on sunday. (and the collection plate as well)

Yes, it's unfair and hurtful, Yes, it's glorifying oneself, yadda, but you (Micheal) simply have to get over it & step your game up.

I don't see how befriending him will further advance you, unless your purpose is to shed with him. It sounds like he has 'a real good feel' & ear for gospel music, maybe due to him being associated with that language since his youth. Yes, i'm sure he overplays and steps into the keyboardists space, but hey.....

Neither earth nor heaven is glorified when it don't groove.

+1

Music is not about competition neither is playing music for god. And neither is definitely about pride. He might not even be playing original stuff. But if you want it bad enough you should pray for it. You should also practice making your own licks and walking basslines.


+1