I have been having a go at doing a few designs. But none of my designs look very nice. They are all pretty small and rough though. I think the reason I don't get anywhere is because I don't know where I am going.

So, I started looking at variations on strat-esque shapes like P basses, Jazz basses, Ibanezs, ESPs, Jackson soloists etc.

But it still doesn't work! Most of those shapes seem to work very well on their own and don't need any modification.

Now I am sure there must be certain "rules" or patterns that these designs follow(at least roughly)? Like the ratios of certain distances etc...., length/size of horns, size of cutaways etc. And when you don't stick to these guidelines, you get an instrument that doesn't balance and or looks strange.

Seeing as I am no artist, and can't just randomly draw great designs, I think I need help/guidelines.
Does anyone have any suggestions on what sort of things I should try to stick to in order to get a reasonable design?


OK, for you guys too lazy to read my waffling. Here is my question summarized. What is it about the strat shape that makes it work so well?


I am talking about relatively "normal" designs, and not anything extreme like CTs and BC riches.

For example, I got a basic Jackson soloist design, enlarged the cutaway on the left and shrunk the cutaway on the right, and now I don't think it looks as nice.http://img253.imageshack.us/img253/4442/whatswronggw1.jpg

Yes, there are certain design parameters that make some instruments ergonomically "user friendly". That's the reason a lot of stuff looks similar! Suffice it to say, Leo layed out a pretty wonderful thing, that's why there's so many clones out there. Go to your friendly local music emporium and start measuring and analyzing as many basses as you can. Observe, observe....and after a while certain measurements and interface relationships of "comfortable", workable designs emerge. A LOT of foolin' around with variables can be done, but there ARE core basics that work. Don't want to reveal too much of the "Black Arts" to you, it's better , and more fun for you to explore on your own!;)

you'd be surprised how many shapes that don't look good in 2D work incredibly well when you hold it and see it in person.

My parameters are in general:
start with a 20x14 square and a neck template image from fretfind. Tummy cut tangent is to be around the area where the freboard ends. Knee rest tangent is to be around the area where the neck pickup would be (around 3-4" from the end of the neck). Upper horn is to end around the 12 and 14 fret. Slightly slanted bottom (around the bridge) looks better, but IMO isn't very practical as a strat style bottom feels like it provides better support for the forearm.

after doing what is mentioned above, (which is of the upmost importance) trace trace trace. Mock up a light table or get you some tracing papper, then gather up some pictures of designs you like. Tracing is a very quick way to try the subtle variations that make a new design speak, in a very time saving matter. Trace originals and trace your tracings... Plus you can draw to scale without always having to reach for the ruler and staring at a blank white page, which can cripple the best artist. Tracing, though not a new concept to me at the time, blew the doors open on my work while I was in design school. Look forward to seeing your progress.

if you were to visit a gallery and study classic photography and painting, you will see a certain boudoir portrait style that is basically a "sitting with backside towards the viewer and looking over the shoulder" type of arrangement. now smooth out the butt line against the sitting object, and cut-off above the upper waist ... :eek:

are you starting to see that classic hour glass shape in Leo's (and many other similar like many early Alembic designs) designs? now you have the proper initial proportions to work your design. after all, true beauty repeats itself in many unsuspecting places :cool:

thought so ...


all the best,

R

please avoid this design at all cost!
http://www.arthursclipart.com/music/musicbw/BANJO.gif

ROFL!!!!! :D

please avoid this design at all cost!
http://www.arthursclipart.com/music/musicbw/BANJO.gif

Now hold on, does this thing come in a sixer?:eek:

how about 13 strings?

Always make the end of the lower horn point back up towards the neck, so that if you were to draw an invisible line from the horn following it's path it would connect back with the body. It really bugs me when basses aren't built that way and I could never buy one that's like that, OCD or something like that, it ruins the bass. It fails to flow at that point.

Always make the end of the lower horn point back up towards the neck, so that if you were to draw an invisible line from the horn following it's path it would connect back with the body. It really bugs me when basses aren't built that way and I could never buy one that's like that, OCD or something like that, it ruins the bass. It fails to flow at that point.
If I understand correctly, I disagree completely. This is a metter of taste.

Taste aside, the major function and ergonomic issues are:

- proper placement of both strap ends (unless the bass is for seated play only), to enable balance. Usually upper strap lug near the 12th fret for headed basses.

- proper placement of the treble-side lower incurve to enable decent balance for seated play (unless you are designing for standing only)

- generally, bridge falling near the bottom of the body, unlike a guitar, because the instrument is generally played with fingers

- a suitable position and shape of the area of the body where the right forearm rests on it

- sufficient cutaway of the treble horn to allow access the the upper frets.


Did I forget anything essential?

Always make the end of the lower horn point back up towards the neck, so that if you were to draw an invisible line from the horn following it's path it would connect back with the body. It really bugs me when basses aren't built that way and I could never buy one that's like that, OCD or something like that, it ruins the bass. It fails to flow at that point.


I guess you don't like Spectors
http://www.spectorbass.com/images/usbolt/NSJH5EXspaltedmapletop_lrg.jpg

but do like a Wish bass
http://www.wishbass.com/images/168_71.JPG

all the best,

R

I play G&L and EBMM. There are lots of reasons I don't like Spectors, they just aren't my thing, but that's one of the reasons. Almost all Ibanez are the same, I like the SR900 but it's got a different body shape that fits my wants. I also really like the Fodera MM sig, looks up my alley, but that damn horn.....

I strive for three things:
(1) Good upper fret access.
(2) Upper bout width (horns) equal to, or (mostly) less than, lower bout width.
(3) Same, or very similar, radius for both sides of the waist.

Everything else is up for grabs.

Taste aside, the major function and ergonomic issues are:

- proper placement of both strap ends (unless the bass is for seated play only), to enable balance. Usually upper strap lug near the 12th fret for headed basses.

- proper placement of the treble-side lower incurve to enable decent balance for seated play (unless you are designing for standing only)

- generally, bridge falling near the bottom of the body, unlike a guitar, because the instrument is generally played with fingers

- a suitable position and shape of the area of the body where the right forearm rests on it

- sufficient cutaway of the treble horn to allow access the the upper frets.


Did I forget anything essential?

Well i dont think that its such a good idea to design a bass strictly for sitting or strictly for standing but whatever. Id say one thing that you left out about the bottom horn from what i know, is that it is important to design the whole lower body so that the area where your knee sits is at or very close to the 24th fret. I also disagree about the bridge. Its very possible to have the bridge far away from the end of the bass. There is always going to be the same amout of room between the end of the fret board and the bridge on a guitar with the same amout of frets. For instance...a 34" scale bass with 24 frets will have 8.5 inches between the last fret and the bridge. This is unchangeable because if you moved the bridge, then youd be changing the scale length. How ever much room you have after the bass doesnt really effect if you can play finger style or not...it just means that the bass will balance differently.

I also disagree about the bridge. Its very possible to have the bridge far away from the end of the bass. There is always going to be the same amout of room between the end of the fret board and the bridge on a guitar with the same amout of frets. For instance...a 34" scale bass with 24 frets will have 8.5 inches between the last fret and the bridge. This is unchangeable because if you moved the bridge, then youd be changing the scale length. How ever much room you have after the bass doesnt really effect if you can play finger style or not...it just means that the bass will balance differently.

I belive you misunderstand - nothing is being said about the scale length, but it does address the angle at which you address the strings and fret the notes

and it means that your fretting hand is that much further away from your body, introducing more phatigue with every extra bit you extend ... and that the bridge is further away from the butt, which will change the available angles you can comfortably bend yur wrist and pluck the strings at - even for a pick player, moving the bridge away from the butt will have a performance impact.

design for playing comfort and good technique ... which usually means the bridge on a 34/35" scale bass is quite close to the butt

all the best,

R

Exactly. If you have a 34" scale bass with the bridge saddles about 2-1/2" from the bottom edge of the body, then the nut is roughly 36-1/2" from the lower strap button - which will rest at a certain position with respect to your body. If you have the saddles 6" away from the bottom edge of the body, then the nut is now roughly 40" from the lower strap button, but your left arm hasn't grown any longer. And the implications for right hand positioning can be even more important.

I was just thinking in terms of a longer body. I mostly see it on short scale instruments, where the bridge is a good 4 inches in. I've played a few and they are all really comforable and balance well. What happens is that the body just sits further back from where lets say a J bass would and doesnt make the nut any further away from where it usually is.